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Author Topic: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr  (Read 102757 times)

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Offline jkb

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1800 on: June 16, 2021, 09:28:30 PM »
I messed around with cooking sauce.  Anchovie paste, crushed red pepper, oregano, olive oil, tomato paste, maybe garlic sauteed as a foundation to add to canned tomatoes.  This was mostly for squares.  I landed on adding Saporito thinned with water to 7/11 for a sweeter sauce for slice pies.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 10:18:01 PM by jkb »
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Offline wb54885

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1801 on: June 17, 2021, 04:30:35 PM »
Definitely team Thin Sauce for me, Iím a convert. Iíve been adding extra oil and keeping more pulp out of my Tomato Magic recently to thin it a bit until I get some more Alta Cucina here. My RD has been out of AC on my last 3 visits.

But it occurs to me that it was Tomato Magic I was doing that slow cook with, and then I was milling the heated sauce. So what I was cooking was crushed tomatoes, breaking the tomato chunks down a bit with gentle heat, and then that was passing through a food mill while hot. The sauce was started with garlic and onions and had a bunch of whole basil in it while it heated up, and I think I remember the basil stems being most of what was leftover in the mill after the sauce was processed. Then I started mixing that with uncooked Tomato Magic as well, and thatís still my favorite sauce Iíve made so far.

So anyway, the water that was captured in the pot was already in the sauce/tomatoes themselves, and I just didnít lose much or any of it during the cooking. Iím sure you could also just add water to thin yours back out, just like thinning out a paste to your desired consistency. As long as you got to where you wanted, it wouldnít matter how you got there.

I remember Harry posting that the ďcookĒ on these sauces in his favorite places were described as being quick, 30-40 minutes at a light simmer. I wonder if thatís kind of like what Iím describing. I can 100% imagine adding parm to that process.

I think Iíd almost  rank thinness as a higher priority than a seasoning profile for the impact on overall sauce flavor as it contributes to overall slice flavor. Maybe thatís too far, but maybe not! My eyes were really opened on the importance of the water to tomato ratio in how the cheese melts.
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Offline 9slicePie

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1802 on: June 17, 2021, 04:41:11 PM »
My eyes were really opened on the importance of the water to tomato ratio in how the cheese melts.

Could you elaborate on that?

Offline wb54885

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1803 on: June 17, 2021, 05:10:58 PM »
Thereís been a lot of discussion here about the impact a thinner tomato sauce makes. This is a great thread to check out if youíve never seen it before:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=46482.0

When I finally started paying attention to it myself, I found a lot of truth to it.
Every oven is a law unto itself and only itself.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1804 on: August 06, 2021, 01:48:55 PM »
Here's a slice from a recent pie that looked very Queens to me, one of my favorite looking slices I've baked. It had elements of Margherita, Amore and Lucia...Margherita the strongest resemblance. Pictures taken outside which helps (and it looks alot better on my laptop than on my phone).

 :pizza:

« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 01:53:13 PM by hammettjr »
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Offline 9slicePie

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1805 on: August 06, 2021, 02:18:58 PM »
^^ You hit that one out of the ball park!   For cheese, do you use just Grande?

Offline billg

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1806 on: August 06, 2021, 02:42:07 PM »
Here's a slice from a recent pie that looked very Queens to me, one of my favorite looking slices I've baked. It had elements of Margherita, Amore and Lucia...Margherita the strongest resemblance. Pictures taken outside which helps (and it looks alot better on my laptop than on my phone).

 :pizza:


Very Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :drool:

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1807 on: August 06, 2021, 02:54:41 PM »
^^ You hit that one out of the ball park!   For cheese, do you use just Grande?

Thanks! Yes and no. The melted cheese you see is entirely whole milk Grande, which I think is what you're asking. Recently I've started using parm and romano again (parm on top post-bake and romano mixed in the sauce), but that's not visible in the photo.

While I still like Grande the best, the primary drivers of this type of melt is sauce thinness, sauce amount, and cheese amount...rather than cheese brand.

Matt

Offline nickyr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1808 on: August 06, 2021, 03:27:27 PM »
Thanks! Yes and no. The melted cheese you see is entirely whole milk Grande, which I think is what you're asking. Recently I've started using parm and romano again (parm on top post-bake and romano mixed in the sauce), but that's not visible in the photo.

While I still like Grande the best, the primary drivers of this type of melt is sauce thinness, sauce amount, and cheese amount...rather than cheese brand.
UNLESS you use Polly-O! That ruins everything, as you taught me.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1809 on: August 06, 2021, 03:45:22 PM »
UNLESS you use Polly-O! That ruins everything, as you taught me.

haha, right! i forgot that one  :-D

Matt

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Offline PizzaSean

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1810 on: August 08, 2021, 12:25:59 PM »
Here's a slice from a recent pie that looked very Queens to me, one of my favorite looking slices I've baked. It had elements of Margherita, Amore and Lucia...Margherita the strongest resemblance. Pictures taken outside which helps (and it looks alot better on my laptop than on my phone).

 :pizza:

those slice pics are stunning!!! I bet that was one delicious pie.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1811 on: September 04, 2021, 11:25:38 AM »
Been a while since I've updated.

***************************************************************
Primary reason for this post is to memorialize my final bake in my old kitchen.
When we bought our house in 2013 I was disappointed to find that the double wall ovens were 1) small and 2) only went to 500*. But after a year or 2 nailing down NY bakes in the Blackstone, I went went back to the kitchen ovens and really began to appreciate them.
I think the 2 nice things with the ovens were 1) they baked simultaneously from heating elements at the top and bottom of the oven and 2) the small size (basically a 16" cube) helped retain heat because all 4 walls were pretty close together.

But, out with the old, in with the new...my major criteria for this kitchen renovation were: 1) vault the ceiling and 2) get an oven that can bake an 18" pizza.
After spending well over an hour walking around a store putting an empty 18" pizza box into ovens, I found a nice GE oven and am looking forward to finally baking my first 18" pizza. I'm guessing that will be about 6 weeks from now.

********************************************************

As far as my pizza experiments over the last few months:

MAE - I still do it, but am not sure I notice a huge difference. The first time I tried it I typed up a wildly enthusiastic post that my pizza was amazing, but I haven't been able to duplicate that pizza, so haven't nailed down what fluky thing happened. It wasnt just MAE that made that pie.

Cooked sauce - I tried it again for a few bakes, and only 1 bake did I thin it after cooking to fix the consistency. Something about a cooked sauce just doesn't seem to work for me. I really like the concept of the flavor meld, but it just tastes a bit off from what I'm looking for.

"There's alot going on in this sauce, but I can't taste any one specific flavor" - I've often said that about pizzeria's I really like. It finally dawned on me that if I want to try that approach, then obviously I shouldn't have any ingredients noticeable in my sauce! So one dinner I focused on what I could taste in the sauce, and decided that I would automatically cut that ingredient in half next bake. Oregano and Garlic both reduced since then, and its been great.

Hard cheese - I experimented alot with both romano and parm in the past, but took a break for a while (partially b/c my local supermarket temporarily stopped carrying the romano I like). But it was WB54885's discovery/confirmation that Lucia uses Grande and my subsequent visit to realize that they didn't have a magic mozzarella with great flavor, it was hard cheese. So I started experimenting with romano (boars head, it's mild and kind of sweet) and parm. Whoever said "romano in the sauce and parm post bake" may be a genius. (I'm sure there were many people, but I think Jsaras was the one I remembered.) The only thing that bothers me a bit with parm post bake is some of the bits are still visible as they don't fully melt. But the taste has been great.

***********

So right now I'm in a temporary Blackstone phase while I watch the finishing touches go into my new kitchen. I still have to order an 18" stone and cooling screen (and likely a peel), and I hope to go to a local pizzeria and convince them to give me one of their large mesh screens. We'll see.

« Last Edit: September 04, 2021, 02:26:32 PM by hammettjr »
Matt

Offline nickyr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1812 on: September 04, 2021, 11:43:32 AM »
Have you found a difference between romano in the sauce and romano between the sauce and mozzarella?

Also have you tried microplaning the Parmesan? I wonder if that would help it melt better post bake

Offline foreplease

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1813 on: September 04, 2021, 12:04:24 PM »
Nice, Matt. Is your new GE gas or electric? Were you able to find one that can reach 550?


It will be interesting to see how going to 18Ē changes your bake. I know you will figure it out quickly!
-Tony

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1814 on: September 04, 2021, 12:45:26 PM »
Have you found a difference between romano in the sauce and romano between the sauce and mozzarella?

Also have you tried microplaning the Parmesan? I wonder if that would help it melt better post bake

Well it's been a while since I've put the romano on top of the sauce. But in the sauce makes it part of the sauce, with probably the biggest impact being you'll get uniform flavor throughout the pie. It may also melt into the sauce changing the flavor, which is one of the reasons why I was trying cooked sauce.

For parm I've been using the tiniest holes on the 4-sided box grater, but yeah, I think it ends up with some pieces a bit chunky. Also I grate it while the pie is baking, and it seems that during the 6 minutes or so that it sits, it starts to clump together. I do have a microplane, and will definitely try it.

Matt

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Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1815 on: September 04, 2021, 01:21:27 PM »
Nice, Matt. Is your new GE gas or electric? Were you able to find one that can reach 550?


It will be interesting to see how going to 18Ē changes your bake. I know you will figure it out quickly!

Thanks Tony. "My" new GE oven is electric and reaches 550. I may get the best of both worlds as "my wife's" new LG oven is Gas (and I believe will fit 16" only and is also 550). Given our prior double-wall ovens were small, I really didn't think we needed 2 ovens, but my wife insisted based primarily on Thanksgiving. Seemed silly, but then she said that I pick whatever I want, leave my stone in, do whatever, it'll be my pizza oven. In the end I designed my own pizza corner of the kitchen: an oven, spot for the stereo, 3 drawers, and a small cabinet for trays and screens!

Matt

Offline foreplease

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1816 on: September 04, 2021, 02:18:36 PM »
You did well, Matt!  :chef:
-Tony

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1817 on: September 09, 2021, 08:47:35 PM »

Also have you tried microplaning the Parmesan? I wonder if that would help it melt better post bake

Great call! Microplaned parm instantly vanished when it touched the pie. And I liked microplaning it directly over the pizza rather than doing it before hand.

The one thing I need to be careful with is the microplaned cheese looks like alot more than it is. So I had to go back and add more to get it where I wanted.

Will do this again for sure.

Matt

Offline nickyr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1818 on: September 09, 2021, 10:36:43 PM »
Great call! Microplaned parm instantly vanished when it touched the pie. And I liked microplaning it directly over the pizza rather than doing it before hand.

The one thing I need to be careful with is the microplaned cheese looks like alot more than it is. So I had to go back and add more to get it where I wanted.

Will do this again for sure.
Yay! Glad I could give something in return for everything Iíve learned from you.

Offline 9slicePie

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1819 on: September 10, 2021, 10:29:33 AM »
Sorry but, what is "microplaning cheese"?  ???

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