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Author Topic: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr  (Read 111276 times)

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Offline 9slicePie

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1840 on: October 13, 2021, 05:14:40 PM »
Interesting.


By the way, I noticed that the cheese on the right half of the above pie seems a little more "well done" when compared to the cheese on the left half (see pic below).   Would you consider rotating 180 degrees halfway in to the bake?

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1841 on: October 13, 2021, 05:23:53 PM »
Interesting.


By the way, I noticed that the cheese on the right half of the above pie seems a little more "well done" when compared to the cheese on the left half (see pic below).   Would you consider rotating 180 degrees halfway in to the bake?

Interesting! It's possible this was a function of my inconsistent stretch. You can see the left side is very orange which is where the thin spots are.

But if needed, I'd consider rotating the pie, but I need some practice. For 14" I use the typical Blackstone tool of the oversized cookie spatula to retrieve the pie, but it couldn't manage 18".

Matt

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1842 on: October 13, 2021, 06:49:35 PM »
Would you be able to spin it when you take it off the screen?

Just spin it 180 degrees and then slide the screen out.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1843 on: October 13, 2021, 07:04:00 PM »
Would you be able to spin it when you take it off the screen?

Just spin it 180 degrees and then slide the screen out.

Yep, that should work!
Matt

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1844 on: December 06, 2021, 01:37:08 PM »
I've had enough. I want what I want and I'm not compromising. I want the decadence of a saucy/juicy/entirely orange layer of cheese & sauce sitting on top of a solidly structured crust that is robust with softness and chew yet with no crisp. 

An amazingly-wonderful mistake I made last night is what's inspiring me.

I've been unhappy with my crust, wanting to go thicker, but not trusting it. A bake my kids did using a 'kit' from a local pizzeria led me to buy one of their dough balls to bake with my sauce and cheese. They use a whopping 448 grams for a 12" pizza and I intended to cut it down to my usual 371 grams for a 14" pizza. But I botched the cut and ended up with only 314 grams. I then intended to make a somewhat smaller pie to offset my lower dough weight, but ended up with a full 14". That's a TF of somewhere around 0.072.

And the result was amazing. Entire 8 minute bake was on the screen. I could see from sauce/cheese rumble that it didnt need the stone. I could see the melt of the uncut pie was gorgeous. And each slice ate with the decadence that I've often noted when I get a thin spot in one of my thicker pies.

But, the undercrust was almost non existent and I'm not satisfied with that. My challenge is now to get a legitimate undercrust but still maintain this melt. I often mention (as recently as a few days ago to GumbaWill) that crust thinness has a big impact on melt. So, can I really adjust to get the melt without the bottom heat coming through a super thin skin?

Evidence of my prior bakes suggests I can, but those bakes have been very rare. I had a bake in March of 2019 that was a glorious juicy mess on top, yet was structurally sound with a TF of 0.09375. (I'm glad I saved my old notebooks for a reason.)
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51924.msg571105#msg571105
One a couple months earlier had TF of 0.09125 and I commented "cheese boil across the entire pie" and "cheese looked perfect".
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51924.msg559455#msg559455

How do I hope to achieve this:
1. First I'll go back to my 371 gram dough ball (TF = 0.085) and see if I can achieve it there before pushing any more dough weight.
2. Ferment the dough more. In the 2nd post I linked above I guessed that a more fermented dough seems to allow more heat through it to increase the sauce boil. I have no idea why that would be true, but who knows.
3. Will need incrementally more sauce as I go up in dough weight
4. Will use the same temp as last night (oven temp of 520, stone temp reached 530)
5. Will go higher in the oven by 1 or 2 racks. This will get me closer to the top element, perhaps getting the sauce boil from above
6. If I dont see a strong boil I'll move to the stone
7. Perhaps not related, but I want to try increasing my dough salt level to 2.5% (from 2.2%), inspried by the pizzeria crust
8. Also unrelated, but after tasting the super spicyness of the pizzeria's sauce raw, I doubled the amount of cayenne in my sauce. do that again.

Wish me luck. Worst case I dial back to TF of 0.07, but I'm hopeful I can make this work.

****
Recap of last night's bake:

- 314 grams of dough from a pizzeria, 14" pie, TF of 0.072
- Rim crust tasted salty early on
- Oven set to 520, stone reached 530
- About 1 spoon less than 3/4 cup of sauce used
- A little less than 9 oz mozz used (photo on my computer with how much cheese i left over, maybe half an ounce)
- 8 minute bake, all on the mesh screen
- 3rd to bottom oven rack

Pics below from last night.
Matt

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Online foreplease

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1845 on: December 07, 2021, 07:57:10 AM »
If it can be done, Matt, you can do it.
-Tony

Offline 9slicePie

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1846 on: December 07, 2021, 02:48:40 PM »
I want the decadence of a saucy/juicy/entirely orange layer of cheese & sauce sitting on top of a solidly structured crust that is robust with softness and chew yet with no crisp. 

Perfect description of a classic NY pie/slice.

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1847 on: Yesterday at 09:12:57 AM »
First and foremost, good luck.

I'm guessing the pizza place selling the kits is probably selling a pound of dough (453-454g) and then are probably OK with +/- a little bit. But that much dough for a 12 inch pizza is a lot.

My question is with #3, more sauce. I know you like them saucy. Why do you think you will need more sauce as the thickness factor increases? I would think more sauce would be more liquid to get boiling. Add more dough and I would guess bake time would increase. Not necessarily a bad thing. But if the diameter of the pizza stays the same, I would have guessed the sauce amount stayed the same too.

Anyhow, I was just wondering about your thought process on #3. And if the sauce amount goes up, do you think you would mess around with the amount of cheese too?

Looking forward to the experiments. Especially what you think about the increase in salt. I've been thinking of tinkering with it myself. I've been at 2.2% for a long time.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1848 on: Yesterday at 07:26:58 PM »
Thanks Jon for wishing me luck and for making me think!

I hadnt considered the possibility that more sauce could make it even harder to achieve the boil. So perhaps I'm making it tougher, but it would be only marginally as I'm talking about a spoon or two and I think the crust thickness will have a much bigger impact.

As to why I'm increasing the sauce, first I'll note that I've reduced my sauce amount recently, so the small increases will only return me to where I was for a while. But I'm thinking more about the perceived juiciness and flavor of the pizza. While quantity of sauce is a factor, so is the ratio of sauce to the other ingredients. Taking an extreme example, if I used the same amount of sauce as last week (with a TF of ~0.07), and put that on top of a 2" thick sicilian slice, i dont think I'd consider it juicy or saucy as each bite would be much more dominated by the crust. The pie I had last week was almost like picking the cheese and sauce off the pie and eating it separately. There was nothing to dilute that flavor. So if I add more crust, there will be dilution, but I should be able to partially offset that with more sauce.

And yes, I will consider more cheese too depending on where the crust and sauce land.

Matt

Online RHawthorne

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1849 on: Yesterday at 11:35:57 PM »
Okay, I'm pretty new to this thread, like page 93, and I have checked in from time to time. My understanding is that the latest development for you is that there's something you want to control about the way the sauce cooks in the oven. Is that about right? And I'm hearing that you want a uniform orange colored cheese topping, I think. Are you thinking that the "sauce boil" as you call it might be somehow instrumental in bringing out that orange color? I'm just trying to dial in on what has obviously been a very long thread.
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