Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr

[hammettjr]

I've been reluctant to create a thread, but I was trying to decide whether my pie from last night should go in the Sauce thread, Melt thread or Mesh Screen thread and figured it'd be better here instead of cluttering up the threads that are dedicated to specific discussion topics.

The most recent phase of my NY pizza journey has primarily been documented in the "melt" thread linked below.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=46482.msg489509#msg489509

I'm currently experimenting with my kitchen oven instead of the Blackstone, using what I've learned from making pan pizzas. Most of my New England Greek style pan pizzas are here:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=691.msg512223#msg512223

I'm also trying out a mesh screen that's used at a bunch of pizzerias in NY, mostly in Queens. Here's the Mesh thread:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=49415.0

Here goes! 

[hammettjr]

Here's my pie from last night. It was very tasty. I'm really liking the smooth sauce right now - it impacts the melt nicely.

My sauce was Cento SM, thoroughly blended (after I removed as much water from the tomatoes as I could).
Simmered with EVOO only for 25 minutes.
Then I put the hot sauce into a glass container and immediately added herbs and romano into the hot sauce.
I applied more herbs and romano on top of the sauce when dressing the pie.

I majorly undercooked the dough, but I much prefer undercooked than overcooked. I dropped the water down from 55% to 52% (with about 1.75% oil). I think this is promising, but its hard to judge based on the undercooking.

480 degree oven, ~515 stone, 8:00 all on the mesh screen.
14", 3/4 cup sauce, 9oz WM Mozz. TF = 0.0975.

[invertedisdead]

So glad to finally see this thread! That's a nice looking melt! The undercrust kind of looks like a fried cheese stick! I've had MUCH more undercooked crusts in my screen trials, if that's what you're calling undercooked these mesh screens look very promising.

Did the cheese have that stretch?

I like the technique adding the herbs and cheese to the hot sauce right off the burner, I sometimes do that one too!

Can't wait to see more from you here Matt! Thanks for sharing 

[hammettjr]

Thanks Ryan! I was very happy with melt. The cheese had some stretch, not alot though.

It's amazing how thin this pie came out (despite the TF of 0.0975). It was almost as if the dough didn't cook.

[quietdesperation]

beautiful melt matt!!

[invertedisdead]

It was almost as if the dough didn't cook.

Did the slices eat proper, or did they feel dense?

BTW sometimes when I get a pie I feel is undercooked on the bottom, I let it cool for a few minutes and reheat in slices or quarters on the stone as a lot of my tasters like a crispy pie.

[hammettjr]

Did the slices eat proper, or did they feel dense?

BTW sometimes when I get a pie I feel is undercooked on the bottom, I let it cool for a few minutes and reheat in slices or quarters on the stone as a lot of my tasters like a crispy pie.

A little gummy. I'm wondering whether my sauce was still warm when I applied it. I was very slow in topping it too.

[invertedisdead]

A little gummy. I'm wondering whether my sauce was still warm when I applied it. I was very slow in topping it too.

Did you open the dough with oil? It looked like you did, that should give you a barrier of protection from the slow topping since they've shown racks of pre-stacked and dressed skins - maybe it was the sauce temperature?

[hammettjr]

Did you open the dough with oil? It looked like you did, that should give you a barrier of protection from the slow topping since they've shown racks of pre-stacked and dressed skins - maybe it was the sauce temperature?

Yep, with oil. It probably was the sauce temp. I was actually thinking of the racks of pre-topped pies as I was slowly topping mine.

[hammettjr]

I love pizza    The flavors of this pie were just as I like (thin sauce, a ton of herbs and hard cheese). Now I just need to figure out how to make a decent NY crust.

I tried 52% hydration again. I don't think it will work with my setup. It ended up ultra-thin and loaded with bubbles. Most likely will try 55% again next week.

10:00 at 460, with a 520 stone. First 9:00 on mesh, last minute on stone. The melt and undercrust was promising (though I had a super pale rim).

Oregano, basil, romano in sauce. Oregano, basil, romano, reggiano on top of sauce...thin sauce using Cento SM, removed as much water as possible from the tomatoes then blended with the puree. Did not cook it, and it worked beautifully.

Note: picture color is perfect on my laptop, orange on my phone.

[invertedisdead]

I love pizza    The flavors of this pie were just as I like (thin sauce, a ton of herbs and hard cheese). Now I just need to figure out how to make a decent NY crust.

I tried 52% hydration again. I don't think it will work with my setup. It ended up ultra-thin and loaded with bubbles. Most likely will try 55% again next week.

10:00 at 460, with a 520 stone. First 9:00 on mesh, last minute on stone. The melt and undercrust was promising (though I had a super pale rim).

Oregano, basil, romano in sauce. Oregano, basil, romano, reggiano on top of sauce...thin sauce using Cento SM, removed as much water as possible from the tomatoes then blended with the puree. Did not cook it, and it worked beautifully.

Note: picture color is perfect on my laptop, orange on my phone.

Love that undercrust, awesome slice Matt! It's challenging to get that even, golden brown flavor town undercrust, I've been dropping temps too and finding my bake times are still very similar at 450-550 when doing a stone bake, but the rest of the pie can turn out very different.

I like a herb forward sauce, any idea of the quantities you are using per 28 oz can?   Cows milk romano or pecorino?

[quietdesperation]

matt, looks wonderful, what didn't you like about the crust?

[hammettjr]

...
I like a herb forward sauce, any idea of the quantities you are using per 28 oz can?   Cows milk romano or pecorino?

Thanks Ryan. I worked hard to remove the water from the tomatoes, and used some, but not all of the puree from the 28oz can.

The result was 1.5 cups of tomato, and I added:
EVOO 2 tsp
Salt 1/16 tsp
Garlic 1/16+1/32
Pepper 1/16
Sugar 1/4+1/8
Sicilian Oregano 1/2+1/8
Dried basil 1/4
Boars Head Pecorino Romano 2 tsp (powdered from box grater)

I topped the 14.5" pizza with 3/4 cup sauce (should have been half the total described above) and added on top of the sauce:
Sicilian Oregano less than 1/2 tsp
Dried basil less than 1/4 tsp
BH romano 1.5 tsp
BH reggiano 3/4 tsp on half the pie only

Pre mozz pic below. I put a bunch of oregano on one spot of the rim to incidate which half if the pie had the parm. There was enough going on with this pie that I didnt really taste a difference.

[hammettjr]

matt, looks wonderful, what didn't you like about the crust?

Thanks QD. I can see my post was a bit confusing/misleading as I posted the best looking pictures of the pizza. The first pic below highlights the problem. There were loads of bubbles, so much that the pizza was almost one giant bubble. With the result being a paper thin crisp layer, then some air and a second paper thin more normal layer (you can see the 2 layers in the picture). The dough (despite being out for almost 2 hours) was still cool when I opened it, which could have contributed to the issue. In occasional spots where I didn't have this separation, I had a bigger gum line than I'd prefer. I'm thinking the low temp bake with low hydration could be an issue there. Though it's possible I just need to let the dough warm up more. If I do try 52% again, I'll increase the dough weight further. (Already at TF of 0.0975, but the result is super thin.)

First pic is my giant bubble. Second 2 pics are from a local pizzeria, and is closer to what I'm trying for.

[hammettjr]

Today I went again to my local pizzeria that uses mesh screens, and had another good conversation with the manager. Key takeaways:

1. They use Grande East Coast Blend (pre-shredded blend of 50/50 whole milk and part-skim). He said that this works best for them as the pre-shredded cheese has less moisture. They have a typical (good looking) NY melt.

2. They sometimes finish the pies directly on the deck, depending on the temperature.

3. He offered to season my screen for me.

Earlier this week I actually asked my wife to get some of the 50/50 cheese blend, but she ended up not getting to the store. But I'm low on whole milk and will be experimenting with a blend next weekend anyway. I found from my Greek pan pizzas that with a blend I could get enough grease and flavor from the whole milk, but the part-skim helped keep it from being too oily and may have given it some texture.
 
Pizzeria pics below. Reheated slice with more crisp than my preference. Very nice hard cheese flavor. But it was overall salty for my tastes (though I generally eat low sodium).

[invertedisdead]

That's a well stretched skin!

The Polly-O shreds I've been using are much lower in moisture than their 1 lb retail block mozz.

Are they using a blend of hard cheeses, or straight romano, or parm?

[Josh123]

I use Grande whole milk pre-shredded at my shop

[hammettjr]

...
Are they using a blend of hard cheeses, or straight romano, or parm?

Good question...They use the distributor that I go to. The flavor I tasted today seemed exactly like the reggiano that I've bought there. It really tastes different than other cheeses I've bought. BUT, when I spoke to the manager last time he was adamant that reggiano had "too mild" a flavor and was too expensive for a pizzeria to use. He said they use romano. He was very open with me (giving me the phone number of the mesh screen maker) and I assume that he was giving me good info on the romano. But that reggiano I bought has the NY pizzeria flavor I was searching for. Next time I'm at the distributor I'll ask who makes it.

[hammettjr]

I use Grande whole milk pre-shredded at my shop

Interesting, did you try shedding blocks yourself? If you did, was there a difference in moisture when it melted?

[HarryHaller73]

That's a well stretched skin!

The Polly-O shreds I've been using are much lower in moisture than their 1 lb retail block mozz.

Are they using a blend of hard cheeses, or straight romano, or parm?

Do they add anything in the Polly-O shreds?  Sometimes cheese brands will add cellulose powder to avoid caking.