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Author Topic: My Road To Napoli  (Read 26098 times)

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Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #340 on: September 20, 2020, 04:50:16 PM »
My first bake with Caputo nuvola.  Can't say that I noticed much difference except that it was very soft and nice on the bench.  220g balls, 1+9-10 hours at 25C, 60% hydration, and 50 g/l salt.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 04:52:39 PM by amolapizza »
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #341 on: October 18, 2020, 07:06:57 AM »
I've been slacking with the posts lately..  I've made pizza once a week and tried the Caputo nuvola which I like but I'm not quite sure how it differs substantially from pizzeria.

I also tried adding heat from under the biscotto, I notice that I don't get the black areas underneath anymore, something I think I'll have to attribute to making a better dough and making better discs without thin/weak spots.  Of course not turning the pizza and leaving it alone in the oven avoids getting the burnt areas that you can get under the cornicione when you don't put it back in the exact same spot.  However I do notice that the pizza does get a slight crispiness to the bottom which I don't think belongs on a Napolitana.  So I'm going back to just heating from the top for now.

I've also bought Belgian fresh yeast and it seems much easier for me to dial in the right amount.  With IDY I was struggling to find the right amount to use, maybe because I use RT fermentation and though my scale measures 0.01g it might not be reliable for the small amounts I've been measuring.

Also interesting is that the Belgian yeast seems slightly less powerful than the Italian Lievital that I've used in the past.  With Lievital the Italian dough calculator I used was more or less spot on, with this new yeast I'll probably have to input a few degrees lower in the calculator to get the right amount.

Though not all that beautiful the pizza I baked yesterday was probably among the best tasting Napolitana that I've ever made.  The pizza was soft, pliable and there was no hint of gum, uncooked dough or chewiness.  A slight chewiness appeared as the pizzas cooled off, but I think that's normal and something that can't be avoided.  A Napolitana simply has to be eaten piping hot straight out of the oven for the best result.

622g Caputo pizzeria (100%)
360g Water (58%)
18g Salt (2.9%)
1.15g fresh CY (0.18%)

The dough was made in my spiral mixer, I just put in all the ingredients and let it run for 5 minutes at the slowest speed.  Then one hour of bulk and 10 hours in balls at around 21C.  The doughballs were 220g and the pizza was about 30cm.  It was formed as a "wagon wheel" (ruota di caretto), the traditional Neapolitan way leaving no appreciable cornicione.  It was baked for 65 seconds at somewhere between 450C and 500C.

It was really really tasty.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline sk

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #342 on: October 18, 2020, 08:32:30 AM »
Very nice write-up on your experience and delicious looking pizzas.  I agree with you, flavor, tenderness and taste prevail over appearances.
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Offline Yael

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #343 on: October 18, 2020, 09:39:30 AM »
Jack,

I first misread the yeast amount/% and I thought there was a mistake, but it happens there is a little one indeed: 0.18% should be 1.12g. I think I'm gonna call the police.  :-D ;D
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #344 on: October 18, 2020, 09:50:17 AM »
I rounded it off!  In any case it was wrong and I had to eat late!

Next time I'll just write a pinch of yeast!  ;D
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

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Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #345 on: November 30, 2020, 05:13:20 AM »
Made some more Napoletana.

622g Caputo pizzeria (100%)
360g Water (58%)
18g Salt (2.9%)
1.75g fresh CY (0.28%)

I put all the ingredients into my spiral mixer and let it go at the lowest speed for 5 minutes.  After one hour of bulk I formed 220g balls and let them go another 9 hours at around 18-19 degrees.  A few hours before baking I moved them to a slightly warmer location as fermentation seemed a little bit too slow.

Baked in my electric pizza oven without turning at around 450-500C for 60-70 seconds.

The leftover ball and the dough in my fermentometer was kneaded together and I formed 4 small balls (85g) which I left in the fridge until next morning.  I rolled them out really thin and baked them at about 400C.  They puffed up beautifully and made great pitas.  I'll try the domestic oven next time as when they puff up they come too close to the upper element in the pizza oven.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline typicalsam

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #346 on: November 30, 2020, 05:15:36 PM »
I got some nice salami napoli after being inspired by one of your previous posts. It was great, maybe better than pepperoni?  ^^^

Also, I've had a few pitas touch the top element, just got small burn marks but otherwise very edible. I've found if I half a 260g ball, and flatten it out well it won't quite touch the top. Or, get in with the turning peel and squash it down as it expands from "semi-inflated" to "bread balloon".

Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #347 on: December 01, 2020, 10:11:28 AM »
I'm unhappy that I can't find pepperoni here, I'd like to try some.  It was years (if not decades) ago that I ate a pepperoni pizza at pizza hut.

Yeah I also smashed them down with the turning peal, but I suspect they might bake better in my Siemens oven.  It's convenient that you can make pitas from left over pizza dough, I'm happy I figured that one out.

Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline Wario

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #348 on: December 01, 2020, 06:51:25 PM »
Love the way your pizza's look and your topic is a great read! I am about to purchase the same Effeuno 500 degrees oven you own!

Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #349 on: December 02, 2020, 01:38:53 PM »
Thank you!

It's a great little oven with many advantages and not much to complain about.

I'm sure you'll be happy with it no matter what kind of style you want to bake!
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

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Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #350 on: December 27, 2020, 11:21:29 AM »
Some reflections as the year comes to an end.

The most positive is that it seems I've become a better pizzaiolo over the years, and that without being sure of what exactly I've become better at.  My dough is often but not always very usable, my bench work has improved as have my skills with the oven and the peel.  I hardly ever have any problems with thin spots anymore, and when I occasionally see them appearing I seem to be able to work around the problem.  When the dough behaves differently in other ways, I also seem to be able to work around the problem.

I don't have large black areas on the bottom of the pizza anymore, and think I've reached a point that both me and my wife are happy even with the bottom of a 60 seconds Napoletana, she used to complain about the black before, where I would have eaten it without blinking an eyelid.  I use liberal amounts of bench flour and don't really pay any extra attention to it, and I never seem to have extra flour on the pizza when it goes into the oven, it also doesn't get stuck on my peel.  Not sure what improved but I suppose it has to be the dough making and the bench work.

I now know how to make a very tasty Napoletana as well as a Tonda Romana.  I am perhaps guilty of making same day room temperature doughs, but it's too convenient for me and I figure that if it's good enough for most Italian pizzerias it's probably good enough for me.  I really ought to go back to 24-32 RT as the result is even tastier and the looks of the pizza is better.

I do struggle with how much yeast to use.  I used to use an Italian dough calculator and it seemed spot on with the the Lievital Italian fresh yeast that I used to buy before covid.  Since then I haven't seemed to be able to dial in the right amount to use either with dry yeast nor with the locally available fresh yeast.  Maybe I'll manage to do so some day, or once we're all vaccinated I can start going back to the Italian shop and buy my beloved Lievital again.

My bread making is a much sadder story..  For some reason I managed to kill off my starter in september/october of 2019 and I haven't been successful in reviving it or making a new one.  I have one now that was started from dried and frozen previous starters, it does smell and taste nice and seems to have the right LABs, but it simply doesn't rise like it should.  I suppose it's deficient in yeast cells, not sure why nor how to fix that.

Lacking the sourdough starter has led to me using poolish like I did before sourdough.  Still I don't seem to get the fermentation right and often have problems with a too dense crumb and little oven spring, or I get a huge oven spring with big caves and a dense crumb.  Not sure if it's the mixing, under/over fermentation, the flour, or what...  But I suppose the only way forwards is to bake more and to try to get a good starter going again.

It's sad, I used to be proud of my bread, at the moment I'm not and I'm disappointed with the result and how it eats...  ??? ??? ???

I think for the future I'm going to try to force myself to use longer fermentation for the pizza, try to get a bit more creative with the toppings and somehow recover my bread making.  I also want to start exploring the classical Italian 2.5-3 minute round thin crust pizza as it's also very good but a bit different to the Napoletana and the Tonda Romana.  This is probably what my guests and my wife really would like to eat, as that is what most Europeans expect when you say pizza.

I'd like to finish with a photo of a pizza from boxing day.  I think it's possibly one of the best Napoletana that I've made so far..  The dough was a bit bucky and I'm not sure why.  I used Caputo Chef and maybe the hydration was a tad low, or maybe it was because of the temperature, the flour, the water or the yeast used.  It wasn't as soft as usual and had a tendency to get too thin when I opened the disks.  It also fought back and didn't really want to open up easily.  However they were all super tasty and this one looks especially good.  Maybe a good note on which to finish off the year.  Some dough problems but still a very respectable result.

The dough was similar to what I've been doing lately, I had thought to use Caputo pizzeria but changed my mind at the last moment as I'm nearly out of it.  I used the Chef's flour and didn't think about increasing the hydration a few percentage points.

622g Caputo chef/saccorosso (100%)
360g Water (58%)
18g Salt (2.9%)
0.40g fresh CY (0.064%)

The dough was mixed in my spiral mixer as always, everything into the bowl and 5 minutes on the lowest speed.  It was bulked at 18C for 21 hours and spent 9 hours in balls at 18C, but I had to move it to a warmer place for the last few hours as it was obvious that it wasn't going to be ready on time.  In fact I ate 2 hours later than I had planned for :D

The electric P134H oven with biscotto was preheated at 400C on the upper thermostat with the lower one turned off.  The upper thermostat was set to 500C when I got the ball out of the box, and the surface of the biscotto must have been at around 470C when I got the pizza in (based on experience but I didn't check).

It took 60-70 seconds to bake, got a good mako (macolatura, an Italian word for the appearance and spotting of the cornicione), and was IMO baked to perfection.  It had no hint of unbaked dough, the bottom was spotted but floppy with no crisp whatsoever, the cornicione was nicely spotted and when pressed with a finger it made a crackling noise and sprung right back up.  If there was anything to criticize it's the cheese melt, I should have sliced it a bit thinner.

This was the best looking of the four, so it's the only one I'll post a photo of.  Normally I post the good with the bad, but in this case I want it to be only the best.  The others were also extremely tasty, but didn't look so good due the bucky dough and how they were extended and baked.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline Icelandr

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #351 on: December 27, 2020, 12:37:03 PM »
Thank you Jack for your reflection of the year. It is nice sometimes to look back and see the changes and improvements over the year, looking back in mind or posts to get a sense of growth and learning. For me it starts the next challenge, how can I improve here or there  . . .  and away it goes another happy pursuit !


Thanks for posting, looking forward to the coming year!
Greg
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Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #352 on: December 27, 2020, 01:15:43 PM »
Thank you for your comment!

Yes I think no matter what the pursuit, it's very useful to sometimes take stock of the situation and to reflect on what has been going on and how one could do better.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #353 on: December 27, 2020, 01:27:27 PM »
And the bread I made.

Poolish based, 68% hydration with some Tipo 1 and and Grano duro flour.  Mixed in the spiral, some slap and fold, one coil folding, 3 hours RT fermentation, preshaping/shaping, 30 minutes RT proofing  and about 12 hours proofing in the fridge.  The crumb is better than often lately, and the bread seems edible, but not at all the result that I'm used to nor what I want to achieve.  Maybe I really have to go back to basics and possibly read up on the whole process in a few of my better bread baking books.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline Yael

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #354 on: December 27, 2020, 07:23:28 PM »
Jack,

Thank you for sharing all that!
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

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Offline Icelandr

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #355 on: February 23, 2021, 12:10:26 AM »
Jack, I recall a conversation we had in your thread, that I am sure confused you because of my presentation of the concept. I could look back and find the thread but hope you recall. I was babbling about when studying pottery with the Japanese masters, you were allowed to make but not fire your work until you reached a measured skill level. My mind is not quick and I realize I posted on the Japanese Neapolitan thread description of that quality or tradition. Yes, it has been a long time, no one has said I was quick . . .except perhaps . . . . But that’s another story! The description of working after hours with old dough, not allowed to make the final pizza is what I was alluding to
There! I feel better and you are likely confused, wondering wtf I didn’t ask!


https://www.eater.com/2017/2/21/14670944/best-pizza-tokyo-guide


Hope all is well with you in Covid times


Greg
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Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #356 on: May 02, 2021, 08:49:30 AM »
Hi Greg,

Thanks for the thoughts, and sorry for the late reply!

I've been kind down and out for a few months.  I think the unrelenting stress finally got to me.  I'm not really afraid of covid, but I've felt trapped with no way out for a while.  No woman at home, not seeing friends, not making music, just sitting alone at home or going to work.  That's really not a very satisfying life...

For the last few months I haven't been able to sleep in the night and chalked it up to stress.  I got sent to a cardiolog for a different reason and he discovered that I had quite a high blood pressure (16/8) (my whole life I've been at 12/8)..

Now I'm on medication and the blood pressure has gone down to 14/8 and I feel a lot better.  I can sleep again, and I no longer have the feeling that my head is about to explode.  I've also gotten my first injection and go back for the second in ten days time.  Hopefully life will start going back to normal soon, and I'll lose that feeling of doom that has hung over me..

Other sad news is that I'm finally a diabetic.  Just at the beginning but I decided to cut out a lot of carbs from my diet, so pizza got put on a back burner.  Sadly dietary changes and more walking hasn't really made a dent in the blood sugar, but on the other hand it hasn't gotten worse either.  The cholesterols have improved a bit though.

Who knows maybe with some patience and exercise I'll go back to a pre diabetic level.  I also need to make and eat some pizza to test how much it really affects my blood sugar levels.  Maybe it's feasible to eat pizza once a week, I'd like that... :D

I remember the exchange.  I think I told you to investigate other styles instead of just focusing on Neapolitan.  You replied with something about only making one size of teacups until reaching perfection.  I'm all for repeating a task until you reach perfection.  On the other hand I think there is a lot to learn from making something slightly different at times, and I do feel that this helps the development of skills and knowledge.

I do note that you are now using sourdough, so you did finally change something! :D

On the other hand I guess most pizzaioli chose one style and then they spend years on perfecting the making of it.  This is already a challenge, as pizza has a tendency to always be slightly different no matter how much we try to make it exactly the same...

I really enjoyed the link to the Japanese pizza makers.

I did finally make pizza again, but I'm sorry to admit treachery!  I did go for Tonda Romana! No promises, but I'll try to rectify and make Napoletana the next time! :D :D :D

I've also managed to read the entire backlog of pizzamaking.com.  At least I haven't lost all of my obsession and it's amazing to see how active this forum is.  There is also an amazing amount of new users signing up, and plenty of good information being shared.  I'm really happy to be here!
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline Icelandr

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #357 on: May 02, 2021, 09:44:09 AM »
Thanks for the post Jack! The changes caused by the isolation and lockdown, self imposed or otherwise, have a huge impact on mood, happiness levity laughter and friendships. Adding a couple of medical issues to that can be devastating. Knowing what’s happening and making necessary changes can, among other things, bring back a bit of sense of control which seems to have diminished during Covid and lockdown.
Soon it won’t just be pizza for one, we can get back to serving to friends and laughter will ring around the table!


Take Care


Greg
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Offline sk

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #358 on: May 03, 2021, 10:44:03 AM »
With spring here, your second shot, the chance go out and walk - both BP and A1C should drop.  The Pandemic, while not gone, is certainly looking somewhat better world wide.  Please keep showing us your great pizzas and breads!
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Offline amolapizza

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Re: My Road To Napoli
« Reply #359 on: May 09, 2021, 09:36:54 AM »
Thanks guys!

Last night there was Napoletana!  ;D

It was a relatively quick dough as I decided to make pizza when I woke up.

622g Caputo pizzeria (100%)
360g Water (58%)
18g Salt (2.9%)
1.32g fresh CY (0.212%)

I dissolved the yeast in the cold tap water and threw all the ingredients into my spiral mixer.  I let it run for 5 minutes at the lowest speed and then formed a boule and bulk fermented it for 1 hour (at 20C).  I formed 4 balls of 220g that I let rise for another 9 hours at 20C.

Baked for 70 seconds in my electric oven at around 450-500C measured on the biscotto.

They were really tasty and I'm well pleased that I've started making pizza again.  Think the last time I made Napoletana was new years day.  It's funny how easy it is, I'm kind of amazed when I think back at how difficult I used to think it was.  I guess all the pizza making in the past has paid off.

I wouldn't say that I've mastered the process, but at the least I've become proficient at making Napoletana and Tonda Romana.  But still a lot to learn, so the quest will continue! :D

I made 2 pizzas and from the remaining dough balls I made Panuozzi, unfortunately they puffed up so much that I could hardly remove them from the oven and they both touched the elements (thus the burnt stripes on top).  I think next time I need to make them wider so that they won't get so high when they puff up.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

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