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Author Topic: Craig’s NP  (Read 3655 times)

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Offline Tecorriston

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Craig’s NP
« on: May 09, 2020, 06:47:38 PM »
Where can I find Craigs most recent recipe and process for NP with and without SD and without scrolling thru the entire garage. Thanks.

Tim

Offline chgorrell

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2020, 07:48:02 PM »
Message him kindly?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2020, 08:17:58 AM »
Flour (mostly I use un-malted AP these days, such as Arrowhead Organic)
62.5% HR
2.8% salt
2.1% SD (48H) or 0.028% IDY (48h) or 0.070% IDY (24h)

Sometimes I use the mixer to combine the ingredients, but more often than not, I mix by hand. I pretty much always hand knead now - mostly because I hate my mixer. I give it a few rests between rounds of kneading. It's always silky smooth before it goes into the bulk (plastic box).

Regardless of the yeast choice, I do 12 hours in balls in wood boxes and the rest in bulk. All at 61F +/-.  Depending on how it looks, I'll bring it up to room temp between 2-8 hours before baking.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline tfox39

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2020, 04:44:33 PM »
Flour (mostly I use un-malted AP these days, such as Arrowhead Organic)
62.5% HR
2.8% salt
2.1% SD (48H) or 0.028% IDY (48h) or 0.070% IDY (24h)

Sometimes I use the mixer to combine the ingredients, but more often than not, I mix by hand. I pretty much always hand knead now - mostly because I hate my mixer. I give it a few rests between rounds of kneading. It's always silky smooth before it goes into the bulk (plastic box).

Regardless of the yeast choice, I do 12 hours in balls in wood boxes and the rest in bulk. All at 61F +/-.  Depending on how it looks, I'll bring it up to room temp between 2-8 hours before baking.
Craig, the last few times I've used arrowhead AP I've had terrible results. The dough was made with the same percentages with SD, 48hr at about 62°.

Each time, the dough has come out very firm, tough, and rips very easily if I'm not careful. Not quite sure what's going on. The flour I used before arrowhead didn't give me many issues, but I was also baking a lot more so I'm not sure if this is just user error. I have not yet tried to make with ADY to see if maybe my starter is the issue, but I bake bread with it and haven't had many problems.

I think most of my recent doughs have been for one or two pizzas tops. Maybe I'm overworking the dough because it's so small? Any ideas?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2020, 06:23:51 PM »
All I can tell you is tweak things and see what happens. Try a couple points more water with the arrowhead. See if you can find other unmalted AP or BF flours (many organic are - so are some regular). Maybe you have '00' flours available locally? Try different things and see what works and what doesn't. When I'm experimenting, I may make full batches of 2-4 different doughs. I end up throwing a lot away, but it's a cheap way to learn a lot in a short period of time.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

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Offline crawsdaddy

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2020, 04:07:02 PM »
Flour (mostly I use un-malted AP these days, such as Arrowhead Organic)
62.5% HR
2.8% salt
2.1% SD (48H) or 0.028% IDY (48h) or 0.070% IDY (24h)

Sometimes I use the mixer to combine the ingredients, but more often than not, I mix by hand. I pretty much always hand knead now - mostly because I hate my mixer. I give it a few rests between rounds of kneading. It's always silky smooth before it goes into the bulk (plastic box).

Regardless of the yeast choice, I do 12 hours in balls in wood boxes and the rest in bulk. All at 61F +/-.  Depending on how it looks, I'll bring it up to room temp between 2-8 hours before baking.

Are you including the warmup time in your 48 hours or in addition to the 48 hour fermentation?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2020, 05:52:08 PM »
Are you including the warmup time in your 48 hours or in addition to the 48 hour fermentation?

Yes. Especially with SD, you have to be a bit flexible when when the warm-up time starts.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline crawsdaddy

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2020, 06:21:55 PM »
Yes. Especially with SD, you have to be a bit flexible when when the warm-up time starts.

Me too. All i do is SD and now using "Spy" to help verify proper time to bake.

Offline vincentoc13

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2020, 05:36:22 PM »
Hi, can you please explain "spy" thank you!

Offline MicheleR

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2020, 12:01:55 AM »
Craig do you recommend fresh yeast?


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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2020, 09:49:40 AM »
Craig do you recommend fresh yeast?

I don't have any thoughts on it one way or another. It's hard for me to get, so I don't use it.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2020, 11:47:11 AM »
Fresh yeast is very good if you're a pro and make massive quantities of dough and can get a regular delivery of fresh yeast directly to your restaurant on a weekly basis.

Based on a few years of going back and forth betwen fresh and dry yeast, I'd say that fresh makes the dough taste maybe 5%-10% better and the cornicione rise 10% higher than using instant dry - it just seems a bit more active than IDY with the 1 part IDY = 3 parts fresh yeast conversion. This is why many people actually recommend using 50% as much IDY when substituting for fresh yeast.

For home bakers, it's not a very good choice because it has a shelf life of only 2-3 weeks from opening and you have no idea how long it's been sitting around on your supermarket shelf or how well it was treated up to that point. It could easily be 30-50% less active than it is supposed to be and will totally throw off your fermentation timing. I had several pizza parties using the same exact recipe with fresh yeast, just a couple of months apart and using a different batch of the fresh yeast, and the fermentation was massively lagging forcing me to make my guests wait an extra hour before I could bake. At that point, I decided to stick to SAF Red IDY, like most people on this forum. It is predictable, stable and almost as good. If I want a boost of flavor in my dough, I will either extend fermentation by an extra day, or add a poolish or biga into the mix. This has a much greater effect on the dough flavor than changing instant yeast to fresh. Hope that helps.

For me, the bottom line is that sourdough will make your dough taste the absolute best, and the primary reason to use commercial yeast is the promise of almost perfect fermentation predictability. However, you lose that with fresh yeast, so there's really no point.

Read more here: https://modernistcuisine.com/2018/07/is-fresh-yeast-best/
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 11:54:30 AM by DoouBall »
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline crawsdaddy

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2020, 01:05:37 PM »
Hi, can you please explain "spy" thank you!

Its a tool to measure to amount of rise in a dough ball and giving an estimate of the level of fermentation. It is accomplished by placing a piece of the dough to be used in a graduated cylinder and allowing it to ferment under same conditions as the dough balls. You can see my spy at my thread "San Antonio Bakes". Most people commenting the rise level equate a good level of fermentation to be anything between 1.5x to 2.0x original size ball size. I am shooting for about 1.75 expansion. There is a fair amount of discussion about this tool on Arne Jervell and Icelander, among others, and can be found by searching under "pluviometer". A pluviometer is a graduated rain gauge used by many on this website and by an author who publicized this tool in a book.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 06:28:51 PM by crawsdaddy »

Offline schold

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2020, 01:36:29 PM »
.
Cooking is not a recipe, it's a philosophy - unless it's pastry, then it's chemistry.

- Marco Pierre White

Offline punkrockchris

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2020, 03:00:39 PM »
Thanks Craig for sharing as always.

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Offline MicheleR

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2020, 08:43:08 PM »
Thank you,

I was talking to Juan at Posto in Boston and he makes some good pizzas. He uses fresh yeast. I have always used SAF IDY, but honestly am looking for a change... I need to make my pizza taste better.

Here is Juan’s page for reference:

https://www.instagram.com/juangpizza/

And also for reference here are my pizzas, I do make 60-100 pies a week and sell them from my garage:

https://www.instagram.com/pomodorobasil/

Would love to hear your thoughts!!



Fresh yeast is very good if you're a pro and make massive quantities of dough and can get a regular delivery of fresh yeast directly to your restaurant on a weekly basis.

Based on a few years of going back and forth betwen fresh and dry yeast, I'd say that fresh makes the dough taste maybe 5%-10% better and the cornicione rise 10% higher than using instant dry - it just seems a bit more active than IDY with the 1 part IDY = 3 parts fresh yeast conversion. This is why many people actually recommend using 50% as much IDY when substituting for fresh yeast.

For home bakers, it's not a very good choice because it has a shelf life of only 2-3 weeks from opening and you have no idea how long it's been sitting around on your supermarket shelf or how well it was treated up to that point. It could easily be 30-50% less active than it is supposed to be and will totally throw off your fermentation timing. I had several pizza parties using the same exact recipe with fresh yeast, just a couple of months apart and using a different batch of the fresh yeast, and the fermentation was massively lagging forcing me to make my guests wait an extra hour before I could bake. At that point, I decided to stick to SAF Red IDY, like most people on this forum. It is predictable, stable and almost as good. If I want a boost of flavor in my dough, I will either extend fermentation by an extra day, or add a poolish or biga into the mix. This has a much greater effect on the dough flavor than changing instant yeast to fresh. Hope that helps.

For me, the bottom line is that sourdough will make your dough taste the absolute best, and the primary reason to use commercial yeast is the promise of almost perfect fermentation predictability. However, you lose that with fresh yeast, so there's really no point.

Read more here: https://modernistcuisine.com/2018/07/is-fresh-yeast-best/

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2020, 09:29:11 PM »
Changing from IDY to fresh will not make your pizza better.

From what I see, if you had Juan's oven, your pizza would look better than his. That "big cat" spotting on much of his pizza is not a good thing, IMO.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2020, 11:40:32 AM »
Changing from IDY to fresh will not make your pizza better.

From what I see, if you had Juan's oven, your pizza would look better than his. That "big cat" spotting on much of his pizza is not a good thing, IMO.

Craig I completely agree. This guy makes something like 6-10 pizzas at once in an oversized oven and many of the pizzas tend to develop big burn marks before he can get to them. While it's impressive that he can do so many at once, I also think his pizzas crusts don't look that great. It's too bad that a lot of people in the US equate Neapolitan pizza with burned crusts - a little charring is ok, but some people go for an all out burned look which I personally think is a bit much.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 11:43:40 AM by DoouBall »
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2020, 11:56:51 AM »
I can go the other way too.  9 or 10 pies shoved in an oven that not hot enough equals gummy pizza at a big-name place. To paraphrase Dirty Harry, 'a pizzeria's got to know it's limitations.'
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline MicheleR

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Re: Craig’s NP
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2020, 09:21:25 PM »
That’s because I use your recipe.

Changing from IDY to fresh will not make your pizza better.

From what I see, if you had Juan's oven, your pizza would look better than his. That "big cat" spotting on much of his pizza is not a good thing, IMO.

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