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Author Topic: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.  (Read 15476 times)

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Offline pvura

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Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« on: November 02, 2020, 10:15:32 PM »
Hey all! I was wondering if any of yall have cracked the code to making Joes pizza-ish at home. All i know about their recipe is that they use All Trumps flour (b and b) and im almost convinced that they do a same day dough but im not 100% sure about that. They might also use some semolina in their flour mix but not sure about that either. If anyone can tell me more about their hydration and oil percentage, that would be great. Im up for a basic discussion also :))

In terms of sauce, ive been told that the sauce is cooked and is a bit sweeter than normal, exactly what im looking for, so if anyone made a good version of a sauce that they can share the recipe for, that would be great.

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2020, 12:38:57 PM »
Hey all! I was wondering if any of yall have cracked the code to making Joes pizza-ish at home. All i know about their recipe is that they use All Trumps flour (b and b) and im almost convinced that they do a same day dough but im not 100% sure about that. They might also use some semolina in their flour mix but not sure about that either. If anyone can tell me more about their hydration and oil percentage, that would be great. Im up for a basic discussion also :))

In terms of sauce, ive been told that the sauce is cooked and is a bit sweeter than normal, exactly what im looking for, so if anyone made a good version of a sauce that they can share the recipe for, that would be great.
I can't help you on the dough recipe, but I was at their satellite location in Ann Arbor, MI a couple of weekends ago, and I glimpsed a can of Nina brand San Marzano tomatoes being opened, which can be bought at Costco. I highly doubt if their sauce is cooked, and it probably doesn't have too much added to it.
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Offline Andrew Bellucci

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2020, 09:20:21 PM »
Hey all! I was wondering if any of yall have cracked the code to making Joes pizza-ish at home. All i know about their recipe is that they use All Trumps flour (b and b) and im almost convinced that they do a same day dough but im not 100% sure about that. They might also use some semolina in their flour mix but not sure about that either. If anyone can tell me more about their hydration and oil percentage, that would be great. Im up for a basic discussion also :))

In terms of sauce, ive been told that the sauce is cooked and is a bit sweeter than normal, exactly what im looking for, so if anyone made a good version of a sauce that they can share the recipe for, that would be great.

Well, you got the All Trumps part right...

Not same day dough.  Cold fermented for at least 12 hours and thrown out after 48.

100% All Trumps
57% Water
2.7% Salt
1.5% Sugar
0.5% Fresh Yeast


Pizza Sauce

It is Nina Tomatoes but not the same ones as the Nina's Costco.  Joe's uses D.O.P., Costco's is either San Marzano "style" or just not D.O.P.  I don't remember, but trust me - I verified that they were different about a year ago. 

Run the can through a hand food mill

Stir in sugar which is more or less 3T sugar = 28oz can

It's very basic.  What's great is the well-doneness that comes from baking at 625. And the cheese to sauce ration is great - it's like 3/4lb for 18" and a just full 8oz ladle of sauce.  Hard to duplicate that in most home ovens...




Offline parallei

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2020, 09:45:13 PM »
Andrew,

Thanks for sharing so freely. I hope to make it to your new joint next year. 2020 was a bust, but in 2019 and 2018 I bracketed NYC with New Haven and New Jersey for pizza, respectively. This was while traveling from Colorado to fish for striped bass out on the east coast. Maybe late spring, or fall 2021, with luck!  Best to you.  Paul 

Offline Andrew Bellucci

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2020, 10:06:37 PM »
Thanks Paul!  I hope to see you sooner than later!!!

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Online hammettjr

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2020, 10:37:14 PM »
Well, you got the All Trumps part right...

....

Many thanks for this. I know the post asked for dough and sauce, but any more info about the mozz?

Matt

Offline scott r

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2020, 10:48:17 PM »
grande part skim?

Offline Andrew Bellucci

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2020, 10:54:53 PM »

Offline pvura

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2020, 10:56:08 PM »
Well, you got the All Trumps part right...

Not same day dough.  Cold fermented for at least 12 hours and thrown out after 48.

100% All Trumps
57% Water
2.7% Salt
1.5% Sugar
0.5% Fresh Yeast


Pizza Sauce

It is Nina Tomatoes but not the same ones as the Nina's Costco.  Joe's uses D.O.P., Costco's is either San Marzano "style" or just not D.O.P.  I don't remember, but trust me - I verified that they were different about a year ago. 

Run the can through a hand food mill

Stir in sugar which is more or less 3T sugar = 28oz can

It's very basic.  What's great is the well-doneness that comes from baking at 625. And the cheese to sauce ration is great - it's like 3/4lb for 18" and a just full 8oz ladle of sauce.  Hard to duplicate that in most home ovens...

Thanks Andrew! Shocked to see someone who knows so much abt a pizzeria’s recipe who is notorious for hiding their secrets. Did u use to work at Joe’s? One question though: how does the joes slice crisp up so well and not tear when stretched if there is no oil in it?

Offline Andrew Bellucci

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2020, 11:39:19 PM »
Thanks Andrew! Shocked to see someone who knows so much abt a pizzeria’s recipe who is notorious for hiding their secrets. Did u use to work at Joe’s? One question though: how does the joes slice crisp up so well and not tear when stretched if there is no oil in it?

Joe's is not notorious for hiding their secrets.  About 20 years ago, a guy walked into Joe's and told the pizza guy he's give him $20,000 for the dough recipe and workflow.  The pizza guy told Joe what happened.  Joe told him:  take the $20,000!  And give him everything he wants.  Because he'll never be Joe's!!!

That's how they operate.  All of their recipes are posted on the walls.  Everyone knows how it works.  There are no secrets.  Joe's isn't a "recipe".  It's a well-developed brand that coupled a really great slice + incredible media exposure (Spiderman 2) into a beloved brand that can't be copied.

And yeah - I worked for Joe's.

I've known the Pozzuoli/Vitale family for a long time.  In 2017 they reached out to be as I was in Malaysia and they needed help with their first "franchise" in Shanghai, China.  I spent two months out there putting systems in place.

Last year they reached out again.  They were opening a shop in Ann Arbor, Michigan and wanted me to set up the front and my cousin set up the back.  We were out there until Spring Break when they shut down UM. 

I've personally made about 20,000 Joe's pies...


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Offline Andrew Bellucci

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2020, 12:09:39 AM »
Many thanks for this. I know the post asked for dough and sauce, but any more info about the mozz?

It's Grande Low Moisture Skim

The real trick is shredding the loaves on the Pelican.  Because if the cheese isn't grated correctly it melts totally differently and doesn't have that signature Joe's look.

That might be the hardest part, shredding the cheese and also placing the cheese on the pie.  That's really hard to do consistently.  We had some serious issues with this in Ann Arbor.  So much so that I would never work with shredded mozzarella again.  I am using sliced whole milk mozzarella as the base for my pie (sauce on top - always).  I feel this is the most consistent way to evenly distribute cheese on a pie.

Offline pvura

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2020, 02:24:52 AM »
Joe's is not notorious for hiding their secrets.  About 20 years ago, a guy walked into Joe's and told the pizza guy he's give him $20,000 for the dough recipe and workflow.  The pizza guy told Joe what happened.  Joe told him:  take the $20,000!  And give him everything he wants.  Because he'll never be Joe's!!!

That's how they operate.  All of their recipes are posted on the walls.  Everyone knows how it works.  There are no secrets.  Joe's isn't a "recipe".  It's a well-developed brand that coupled a really great slice + incredible media exposure (Spiderman 2) into a beloved brand that can't be copied.

And yeah - I worked for Joe's.

I've known the Pozzuoli/Vitale family for a long time.  In 2017 they reached out to be as I was in Malaysia and they needed help with their first "franchise" in Shanghai, China.  I spent two months out there putting systems in place.

Last year they reached out again.  They were opening a shop in Ann Arbor, Michigan and wanted me to set up the front and my cousin set up the back.  We were out there until Spring Break when they shut down UM. 

I've personally made about 20,000 Joe's pies...

Thanks for all the info and pics Andrew. May i ask how large the dough balls are? That is, how many grams of dough per pie? Thanks!

Offline Andrew Bellucci

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2020, 09:22:35 AM »
Thanks for all the info and pics Andrew. May i ask how large the dough balls are? That is, how many grams of dough per pie? Thanks!

1lb 6oz for 18"
1lb 9oz for 20"
2lbs for Sicilian

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2020, 09:43:13 AM »
Andrew,

Thanks for sharing so freely. I hope to make it to your new joint next year. 2020 was a bust, but in 2019 and 2018 I bracketed NYC with New Haven and New Jersey for pizza, respectively. This was while traveling from Colorado to fish for striped bass out on the east coast. Maybe late spring, or fall 2021, with luck!  Best to you.  Paul

2021 sounds like a good year for another NYC Pizza Crawl. I'm in!
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Offline Georgev

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2020, 01:21:57 AM »
1lb 6oz for 18"
1lb 9oz for 20"
2lbs for Sicilian

Andrew do they do a room temp ferment  for an hour or so in balls then put them in the tins to rest over night?

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Offline jkb

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2020, 08:43:26 AM »
2021 sounds like a good year for another NYC Pizza Crawl. I'm in!



John

Online hammettjr

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2020, 10:43:59 AM »
Andrew, can you shed any light on how the recipes may have changed over the years? There have been theories here on the forum (likely just folks guessing). For example, one guess was that the sauce had been more complex, then it was simplified to allow the customers to create their own flavors using the oregano/garlic/pepper shakers.

Also, you mentioned 625 bake temp - do you know what the typical stone temp is? (I'm not sure if it's much lower because pies are constantly being baked?)

Edit: I also wanted to comment that wow, 3 tablespoons of sugar per 28oz of tomato.

Separately, I'd propose to sticky this thread (maybe after it slows down). It's special.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2020, 11:12:33 AM by hammettjr »
Matt

Offline Andrew Bellucci

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2020, 11:01:52 AM »
Andrew do they do a room temp ferment  for an hour or so in balls then put them in the tins to rest over night?

They do r/t before they go in the cooler. Depends on the ambient temp. Normally 1.5 hours or so.  On some of the colder days in Michigan the back room where the racks were for proofing dough, we'd leave them out for 4 hours or more.  That's the tricky part, calculating the rise. Some people in that shop couldn't grasp the concept and then the dough would be underproofed. For me the perfe t dough was when it was just touching the top of the tin over it.

Offline Andrew Bellucci

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2020, 11:12:27 AM »
Andrew, can you shed any light on how the recipes may have changed over the years? There have been theories here on the forum (likely just folks guessing). For example, one guess was that the sauce had been more complex, then it was simplified to allow the customers to create their own flavors using the oregano/garlic/pepper shakers.

Also, you mentioned 625 bake temp - do you know what the typical stone temp is? (I'm not sure if it's much lower because pies are constantly being baked?)

Edit: I also wanted to comment that wow, 3 tablespoons of sugar per 28oz of tomato.

Separately, I'd propose to sticky this thread. It's special.

I don't know of any changes - that's the whole Joe's mantra - it never changes, it's always exactly the same. 

That's mostly a good thing but to be very honest, the topping they use are crap.  Presliced Pepperoni, pre-cooked and sliced Italian Sausage, etc. They made a conscious decision that although there are better quality items available, it'll stay same as it ever was. 

I really like their plain slice but my go to is fresh mozz. And the Sicilian is great. I usually skip the toppings...
Maybe my calculation was off for the sugar because obviously Joe's doesn't f..k around with 28oz cans.  It's 3.5lbs of sugar for 3.5 cases of Nina's (21 #10 cans)

Every stone/oven runs different, the back corners are always the hottest and that's where I'd measure. The stones would get to 625.  That's why the pie is launched off a peel and then screened after a minute or so.  Sometimes two screens and I've used 3 on occasion. There's a 30 second window between the pie being perfectly well done and burned...

Offline woodfiredandrew

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Re: Joe’s Pizza NYC dough and sauce.
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2020, 11:50:29 AM »
They do r/t before they go in the cooler. Depends on the ambient temp. Normally 1.5 hours or so.  On some of the colder days in Michigan the back room where the racks were for proofing dough, we'd leave them out for 4 hours or more.  That's the tricky part, calculating the rise. Some people in that shop couldn't grasp the concept and then the dough would be underproofed. For me the perfe t dough was when it was just touching the top of the tin over it.

Andrew...In your opinion ,does it matter that once dough is balled it has to stay out for sometime, what if CF is 48 hours?
Thanks for sharing so generously ( i agree about the part that there is no secret) 

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