Serious Eats Detroit Style. Cold Ferment or no?

[k2yeb]

I've made this recipe a few times. I'm not getting the coloring I'm looking for. My buddy is. He is following the recipe exactly...I'm doing a five day cold ferment. With that much yeast and this type of dough/crumb am I not helping myself leaving in fridge? I've made NY style (Lehman recipe) for years with five day cold ferment with great success. But this is obviously a very different recipe.

I've tried sharp cheddar at edges. I do sharp cheddar, mozz, brick combo. I have a detroit style pan from lloyd's and out on bottom rack directly on steel plate. Thoughts?

[jhx]

What temp is your oven? How long are you baking it for? Are you using the same kind of cheese as your buddy? I've had great success with sharp white cheddar. Perhaps you can post a picture of your bake to assess it better?

[HansB]

Do you have a photo? You can get good color on a same-day dough.

[Monkeyboy]

I use the same basic recipe.  Same pan from Lloyds, steel on bottom rack. 
Have done dough same day (make it in the am, let it rise - punch down 1x) give it time to relax in oiled pan - cook later in the day.

I found better results with making the dough prior day, let rise for about 5 hours, fold 1-2x within the first 3 hours.  Put in fridge overnight.  Remove from fridge around 11am - let come to room temp.  Put in oiled pan around 1-2pm, stretch, let rise in pan until cooking around 5-6pm.  Never tried a multiday cold ferment with Detroit.  My normal pies do best with a 3-4 day cold ferment, then less desirable results.

On Detroit I use Muenster cheese (Brick is only available mail order for me - and end result is not significant to me between Brick/Muenster).  I may also add a little sharp provolone.  I tried a Grandmas pie using same pan, dough, process but mozzarella vs Muenster.  Mozz browned much more but did not give the same desirable burnt edges as Muenster.  Dough has never been a problem, except when sauce was too runny or trying too low of an oven temp.  500 works best for me, about a 15 minute cook.

[matermark]

Whose brand Brick cheese did you use?

[Gene in Acadiana]

I agree with Monkeyboy. This recipe definitely benefits from at least a 24-hour cold ferment. Baking it several hours after making the dough like the recipe states will produce a very neutral-tasting and borderline bland crust.

I also found that I get much better results baking at 500 F degrees for about 15-17 minutes. At 550 or higher it cooks too quickly and the inner crust stays spongy, especially towards the middle.   

[k2yeb]

I use the same basic recipe.  Same pan from Lloyds, steel on bottom rack. 
Have done dough same day (make it in the am, let it rise - punch down 1x) give it time to relax in oiled pan - cook later in the day.

I found better results with making the dough prior day, let rise for about 5 hours, fold 1-2x within the first 3 hours.  Put in fridge overnight.  Remove from fridge around 11am - let come to room temp.  Put in oiled pan around 1-2pm, stretch, let rise in pan until cooking around 5-6pm.  Never tried a multiday cold ferment with Detroit.  My normal pies do best with a 3-4 day cold ferment, then less desirable results.

On Detroit I use Muenster cheese (Brick is only available mail order for me - and end result is not significant to me between Brick/Muenster).  I may also add a little sharp provolone.  I tried a Grandmas pie using same pan, dough, process but mozzarella vs Muenster.  Mozz browned much more but did not give the same desirable burnt edges as Muenster.  Dough has never been a problem, except when sauce was too runny or trying too low of an oven temp.  500 works best for me, about a 15 minute cook.

Its interesting. I have found 5 day cold ferment to be the best for me for NY style. I use Lehman NY style and love it. I tried SE and Norma's recipe for detroit. SE I preferred more. Just made the dough today for a Friday bake. See if around 2 days does anything for detroit style. I feel at very least its negligible but most likely won't damage the quality. Buying crisco butter flavored to see what that does. Ghee and Crisco did add a touch of flavor but not a lot.

For my detroit pies in the lloyds pan I found I either get no color, too much cheesy flavor, or burnt. If I put cheese around the edges I tend to get the cheese flavor but not that carmelization. If I don't, I get more dark flavor but less cheese. Kind of hard to explain but its been driving me nuts. Luckily pizza is like sex....even the worst I'll probably not complain about...well too much 

One of the benefits of living near wisconsin is I can get most cheeses. Never could get Grande mozz though. I live near a Restaurant Depot so I get most of my supplies from there. Its one of the few in the country you don't need a tax id to shop at. City laws I guess. Great place to get ribs to smoke, canned tomatoes, kitchen supplies etc. Got an awesome high temp spatula there for under $5.

[HansB]

Different cheeses around the edge will give various levels of color and flavor. Mozz tends to be very dark, cheddars more brown.

[Ian]

I've made this recipe 4 times now and I find it to be near perfect. Same day bake BUT, I add some of my sourdough starter (after it's fallen after a feed) which adds some depth of flavour.

[pizzaiolmane]

I agree with the posters here. I've made the dough a number of times now and it's solid but I have been thinking it could benefit from a cold ferment. 500F but I usually put it on the a level above the lowest, mainly because my pizza stone is on the lowest. I've zeroed in on a cheese combo of low moisture mozz + muenster + fontina, with Boards Head pepperoni stick cupping nicely.

The one thing I've been trying to zero in on is the crumb. I find the SE recipe produces a fairly dense crumb, and I haven't been able to figure out how to produce a more airy crumb (I did it years ago but forgot which recipe I used).

If anyone has suggestions on how to tweak the SE recipe so it's a bit less dense, I'm all ears!

[Pizza5050]

Hello Pizzaiolmane - I was in the same boat with you up until yesterday.  SE's recipe just wasn't hitting all the marks.  Please see my post at:  Re: Detroit Style - My way  « Reply #498 on: Today at 11:33:57 AM »  (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=42012.msg687310#msg687310)   I think you will be pleased with the dough recipe!

[john_k]

Just to add some two cents to this..
I find the Hans B recipe to be maybe my simplest pizza dough recipe of the 3 or 4 or 5 that I make regularly.

I don't use a mixer but I will give it a stretch and fold maybe.

I refrigerate it and bake it the next day, in a Lloyd's pan lined with butter, at temps between 500 and 525, with Muenster cheese along the edges and mozz in the middle. I wait till the dough is "pillowy" before putting the pan into the oven; it takes a couple few hours of room temp to get that.

I've tried parbaking and not; I parbake usually with the muenster cheese along the edge, then put the rest of the cheese and any toppings (usually mushrooms pre-cooked in the pre-heating oven) and homemade sausage. Parbaking gives the muenster more time to get a nice color.

I heat the sauce separately and spoon it on at the end. I use half as much sauce as I used to use.

I love that pillowy texture of the dough that receives the the slices of muenster along the perimeter! Thank you HansB!