Looking for Mama's Too house slice dough recipe

[jpitkoff]

I know most people love Mama's Too for the square slices, but I'm a huge fan of their NY-style house (i.e. triangle) slice and would love to find a recipe for it. The crust is crispy and light with a really great, well-developed flavor. Any leads?

(Wouldn't mind a recipe for the square slices too though!)

[scott r]

Its the same dough.   Its a direct dough, no preferments or sourdough, and fairly wet.   At one point in time he was using 100% all trumps, but he is always tweaking and I have heard he is blending two flours now.   Also, at one point there was high oil in the dough, but last time I talked to him he had brought it down to a typical range.   Honestly its all about nailing the fermentation (using the dough at the right time).   He has been very public about saying there is no sugar used in aything in his pizzeria.    Your best bet is just practice practice practice and also to have killer ingredients and a great oven.  Good luck.

[jsaras]

Its the same dough.   Its a direct dough, no preferments or sourdough, and fairly wet.   At one point in time he was using 100% all trumps, but he is always tweaking and I have heard he is blending two flours now.   Also, at one point there was high oil in the dough, but last time I talked to him he had brought it down to a typical range.   Honestly its all about nailing the fermentation (using the dough at the right time).   He has been very public about saying there is no sugar used in aything in his pizzeria.    Your best bet is just practice practice practice and also to have killer ingredients and a great oven.  Good luck.

 

Start with a basic Lehmann formulation without sugar and tinker around the edges. 

[hammettjr]

Make sure you watch the video below if you haven't already.

[wb54885]

Scott, was/is it bromated AT or nah?

[Jon in Albany]

I think they just got a pizza master oven too.

[RHawthorne]

Make sure you watch the video below if you haven't already.

I watched this video a few weeks ago, and then I couldn't remember which place it was. At 0:53 in the video, he said the hydration rate for their dough was 74%, which is way high for NY style by my reckoning, but a lot people love it. I would imagine the other ingredients are probably in the usual range; 2%-2.5% salt, 0.2%-0.5% yeast, 1%-3% oil (maybe higher). I can only guess about the fermentation time and temperature, but I would imagine it's not a same day dough. I'm not saying it would be any easy dough to replicate, but given the information we already have on it, you would have at least some idea of the proportions you should be shooting for if you were to give it a try.

[RHawthorne]

  He has been very public about saying there is no sugar used in anything in his pizzeria.   

I hope he's saying that there is no added sugar in anything, because there is definitely sugar in AT flour. I've heard others in the business say that same thing before, and it always bugs me when I know what kind of flour they use. Other than straight "00" flour, I would say there's pretty much no such thing as a flour used for pizza dough that doesn't have some form of sugar already in it, whether there's any added or not.

[scott r]

good point!   I think its safe to say no added sugar.... and he has long bake times at high temps so that makes sense.   I can't remember if it was bromate or not on the all trumps, but I don't think it was and pretty sure there is no bromate now.

[RHawthorne]

good point!   I think its safe to say no added sugar.... and he has long bake times at high temps so that makes sense.   I can't remember if it was bromate or not on the all trumps, but I don't think it was and pretty sure there is no bromate now.

I just skimmed through that video again, and at 12:44, he says "I put no sugar in anything I do in this store". I guess that's honest enough, but I still feel like a little clarification about the dough would not go too far amiss. I also found it interesting that he said he uses some carrot in his pizza sauce. I worked at a place about a decade ago (that's now out of business) where they did that, and it was a cooked sauce. I'm guessing his sauce is probably cooked too, because I can't imagine throwing raw carrot into an uncooked sauce. Or maybe he just cooks the carrots and adds them to the sauce (?). Now I'm intrigued.

[scott r]

I think he has more than one tomato sauce, I don't think they all have carrot, but I could be wrong.  Could it be carrot just in the vodka sauce?   I know that one is cooked.

[RHawthorne]

I think he has more than one tomato sauce, I don't think they all have carrot, but I could be wrong.  Could it be carrot just in the vodka sauce?   I know that one is cooked.

Yeah, you're right. I missed that. There was a rough cut in the video, and I didn't realize he was talking about the vodka sauce the first time I watched it. That's very interesting. Now there's another thing I need to try!

[jsobolew]

Sugar in All Trumps? Not that I've heard of. I've got a bag and there is no sugar listed in the ingredients. Ingredients from the bromated version on the GM website:
BLEACHED WHEAT FLOUR, MALTED BARLEY FLOUR, NIACIN, IRON, POTASSIUM BROMATE, THIAMIN MONONITRATE, RIBOFLAVIN, FOLIC ACID

Non-bromated:
WHEAT FLOUR, MALTED BARLEY FLOUR, NIACIN, IRON, THIAMIN MONONITRATE, RIBOFLAVIN, FOLIC ACID.

[HansB]

There is very little sugar in a wheat berry, only about 1%.

[Pizza_Not_War]

Malted barley = sugar

[RHawthorne]

Malted barley = sugar

Exactly. Maltose is a form of sugar, and it's almost always the second ingredient listed on any kind of flour besides straight "00". The whole reason it's there is to give yeast an energy source to do it's work. I'm not saying it's a large amount, or that it's something people should be overly concerned about in terms of it's healthfulness in this context. I just think that anybody who bakes regularly should be aware of what they're working with, and should be mindful about saying there's "no sugar" in their dough, when that's pretty much never the case when they're using any kind of flour other than straight "00".

[wb54885]

If we’re getting technical, isn’t malted barley a source for enzymes that help break starch down into maltose, and not maltose itself? Regardless, I think it’s pretty clear Franco means no added sugar, processed sugar or honey, etc. Especially as he’s saying it in the context of mentioning carrot as an alternative to sugar in sweetening the vodka sauce.

I think they just got a pizza master oven too.

I wouldn’t have seen this coming! My last slices there were baked to perfection in the gas ovens. I wonder if electric ovens will help with their volume. Their gas ovens were Marsals, I think? I’ll be there in a week, excited to have a look!

[RHawthorne]

If we’re getting technical, isn’t malted barley a source for enzymes that help break starch down into maltose, and not maltose itself? Regardless, I think it’s pretty clear Franco means no added sugar, processed sugar or honey, etc. Especially as he’s saying it in the context of mentioning carrot as an alternative to sugar in sweetening the vodka sauce.

I wouldn’t have seen this coming! My last slices there were baked to perfection in the gas ovens. I wonder if electric ovens will help with their volume. Their gas ovens were Marsals, I think? I’ll be there in a week, excited to have a look!

Malted barley contains both maltose and enzymes. That's how it makes beer. When you steep crushed malted barley grains in water in a specified temperature range, the enzymes in the grains are activated and what happens is what brewers colloquially call "self conversion", where the maltose is "formed" (for lack of a better term) over time in the mash. I was a homebrewer for many years. I could get much more technical about this stuff if I wanted to, but I don't want to bore you to death.

[Jon in Albany]

If we’re getting technical, isn’t malted barley a source for enzymes that help break starch down into maltose, and not maltose itself? Regardless, I think it’s pretty clear Franco means no added sugar, processed sugar or honey, etc. Especially as he’s saying it in the context of mentioning carrot as an alternative to sugar in sweetening the vodka sauce.

I wouldn’t have seen this coming! My last slices there were baked to perfection in the gas ovens. I wonder if electric ovens will help with their volume. Their gas ovens were Marsals, I think? I’ll be there in a week, excited to have a look!

They might have added it to the mix. I know I saw a social media post of an oven getting shipped to them. Small place, no idea where they put it.

[wb54885]

I’m not bored, I’m curious 

Still sounds like you have to add water to get malted barley to make maltose. Is that inaccurate? Are you counting the moisture present in AT as water that begins the process, or saying the maltose itself already exists in malted barley, maybe just in small amounts?

Feel free to point me to a good source if it’s too much for this thread.

As for the OP and guessing about Mamas TOO dough, based on clues from Scott and Franco, I would try a 14+% protein flour at 68-70% H2O with 5% oil and 3% salt and see how it works. The workflow is going to be important too, maybe bulk with stretch and folds for a day or two before balling and proofing. Scott’s right to point to them having the proof down pat. Then it’s soft hands to stretch and preserve all that air. .35-.4% IDY for 2- day ferment...? Let us know if you try it, I’m not sure there’s a Mamas TOO clone thread yet!

Do we know what kind of mixer they use?