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Author Topic: Modernist Pizza  (Read 5875 times)

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Offline werty20

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Re: You're all kidding yourselves...
« Reply #60 on: October 20, 2021, 01:48:34 PM »
But I canít wait to hear more reviews from members here and to get my hands on it as well. Even a pig can sometimes show you where to find a truffle.
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Cooking with Myhrvold and Migoya's Modernist Pizza
some forums start to share and post results from the book

Offline jsaras

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #61 on: October 20, 2021, 08:26:30 PM »
Modernist?  Do we have to go THAT far back? 
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #62 on: October 20, 2021, 10:58:32 PM »
I spent most of the day with "Volume 1 - History and Fundamentals." I was not disappointed. Most noticeable was the vastly improved photography with gorgeously composed shots of delicious-looking pizzas. The quality of the content was top-notch. Care was clearly taken in the historical research. Well-organized and edited. I enjoyed reading it and found many ideas for improving my pizzas. Very impressed so far.     

Online wb54885

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #63 on: October 21, 2021, 08:32:37 AM »
Glad to hear youíre getting a lot out of it Bill. Enough to consider not returning it...?

Now that you have it in front of you, who do you reckon its target audience/market is meant to be?

As far as historical information, have you noticed if they pay any homage to PM.com and Peter Regas for recently breaking the Lombardi 1905 ďfirst US pizzeriaĒ myth?
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Offline scott r

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #64 on: October 21, 2021, 10:00:29 AM »
Thats great to hear Bill, thanks for taking the hit on this one for us!

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #65 on: October 21, 2021, 04:20:29 PM »
Today I stumbled across a podcast that features Nathan Myhrvold, at a website of a money manager Meb Faber. I plan to listen to it at some point but I thought that some of our members would like to do so also. The link is:

https://mebfaber.com/2021/08/25/e343-nathan-myhrvold/

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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #66 on: October 21, 2021, 04:36:49 PM »
Glad to hear youíre getting a lot out of it Bill. Enough to consider not returning it...?

Now that you have it in front of you, who do you reckon its target audience/market is meant to be?


I'm leaning towards keeping it. If something I order is pretty much "as advertised", then I feel obligated to follow through on the purchase.

My impression is that the target audience is Myhrvold. It seems to be a labor of love passion project. He probably knows his break-even point and doesn't really care.

Offline Rolls

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Re: You're all kidding yourselves...
« Reply #67 on: October 22, 2021, 02:25:09 PM »
They came to a pizzeria in Seattle where I was working to research the book. I declined to be present for the meeting. I was told Myrhvold ate a whole 18Ē pie and more by himself and didnít ask a lot of questions, which is why Iím inclined to believe this was an eating tour for him personally with a picture book to show for it. But I canít wait to hear more reviews from members here and to get my hands on it as well. Even a pig can sometimes show you where to find a truffle.

^^ Now this made me :-D :-D :-D.


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Offline dineomite

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2021, 06:44:36 PM »
Quote
I'm leaning towards keeping it. If something I order is pretty much "as advertised", then I feel obligated to follow through on the purchase.

I'm of the same opinion. I don't go in with the intention of kicking the tires and dumping it back on the seller if I decide I don't like it. It's for this reason I didn't buy it. There were some things I liked about Modernist Cuisine, but a lot of things I felt would be dated in a very short period of time. I'll be interested in your take on Modernist Pizza.

Offline HansB

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2021, 08:17:53 PM »
I don't think I'll be getting MP. I already have Roberta's, Razza and and the new Tartine books on pre-order.

I am going to watch this out of curiosity. https://www.eventbrite.com/e/modernist-pizza-with-francisco-migoya-tickets-172014980437?keep_tld=1
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Offline pedrob

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #70 on: October 25, 2021, 12:32:43 PM »
Same as others here, still getting through the book... Making their NY dough this week and can report results then.

I think bakerbill captured it pretty well:

Quote
The recipe lists water temp but no reference to temperature formulas as other books do

I'm slightly disappointed by that, was hoping for one step further beyond windowpane testing, finger testing and such. I guess what it does bring is a bunch of data to support these.

Quote
Also, there is no mention of stretch and fold techniques which I have found in other recipes and have found to be helpful

I believe this is covered briefly on 2.51.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #71 on: October 26, 2021, 07:27:40 PM »
I spent today with the extensive section on sauces - so many versions I want to try. No, I won't be trying the one based on canned tomato soup, but many of the others seem like good candidates for upping my sauce game. The use of xantham gum to thicken sauces when necessary gets a thumbs up from me, although I use a modified corn starch (Ultra-sperse M) simply because I bought a big bag of it a while back.

I have my tomato sauces pretty much dialed-in so I plan to explore the more unusual ones like pressure-caramelized zucchini sauce. Garlic chive bechamel sauce is first on the list since I just harvested a bunch of garlic chives from my garden.



Offline ptix

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #72 on: October 27, 2021, 02:17:11 PM »

You said you found many ideas for improving your pizza - can you give examples ?

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2021, 04:41:08 PM »
You said you found many ideas for improving your pizza - can you give examples ?
The idea I have been thinking about the most is enzyme tenderizers/relaxers in the dough. I do use a synthetic amylase in my banh mi rolls, but I don't think I've ever tried it or bromelain, papain, fruit juice, etc. in my pizza dough. One of the problems I struggle with in using sourdough cultures is finding the right balance of flavor and texture in long-proofing doughs. Often I can get a perfect light, fluffy texture but the buttery tang is lacking; and the converse. As long as I've been doing this, I rarely hit that tiny window of perfection. I hope to run some side-by-side tests with these amendments to see if they help. 

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2021, 06:18:57 PM »
The idea I have been thinking about the most is enzyme tenderizers/relaxers in the dough. I do use a synthetic amylase in my banh mi rolls, but I don't think I've ever tried it or bromelain, papain, fruit juice, etc. in my pizza dough. One of the problems I struggle with in using sourdough cultures is finding the right balance of flavor and texture in long-proofing doughs. Often I can get a perfect light, fluffy texture but the buttery tang is lacking; and the converse. As long as I've been doing this, I rarely hit that tiny window of perfection. I hope to run some side-by-side tests with these amendments to see if they help.

An interesting direction for sure Bill. I've been thinking about trying this yeast for the same reason. It has added strengtheners and enzymes. Won't help with your sourdough though :)

https://redstaryeast.com/red-star-products/platinum-yeast/
Alex

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Offline thezaman

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #75 on: October 28, 2021, 05:18:29 AM »
  DoouBall, I really like the platinum yeast I never looked into itís make up, but felt it improved my doughs. 
 Bill after spending time with the three books I agree there is a lot of good information there. I liked the idea of a little  xantham gum to slightly thicken Neapolitan sauce. I use that work for thinner tomato products.
 I have not tried any sauces yet, but the New York sauce using anchovies oil looks interesting. I have been draining the salt and oil off of my anchovies at work and saving it for use in sauces.
 I think there is a lot of good information that will be useful and am glad I bought the books. I know the books are large to maximize the beautiful pictures, to me they are cumbersome to hold and read.

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #76 on: October 28, 2021, 01:23:41 PM »
  DoouBall, I really like the platinum yeast I never looked into itís make up, but felt it improved my doughs. 
 Bill after spending time with the three books I agree there is a lot of good information there. I liked the idea of a little  xantham gum to slightly thicken Neapolitan sauce. I use that work for thinner tomato products.
 I have not tried any sauces yet, but the New York sauce using anchovies oil looks interesting. I have been draining the salt and oil off of my anchovies at work and saving it for use in sauces.
 I think there is a lot of good information that will be useful and am glad I bought the books. I know the books are large to maximize the beautiful pictures, to me they are cumbersome to hold and read.

Thanks for letting me know you tried and like Platinum yeast - I'll be sure to give it a shot.

I'm not a fan of xantham gum. Like caregeenan, it can cause stomach side effects in some people like bloating and gas. Especially in a commercial environment, where you probably want customers to feel that your pizza is more "digestible" than the competition. Normally, xantham gum only produces side effects at larger doses, 15g or more. However, the problem is that xantham gum is made from fermented sugar. The sugar could be derived from wheat, corn, soy or dairy. People allergic to any of these foods could have a negative reaction to xantham gum. Just my 2c.  Sourche: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/xanthan-gum#TOC_TITLE_HDR_7

Alex

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Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #77 on: October 28, 2021, 02:34:17 PM »
An interesting direction for sure Bill. I've been thinking about trying this yeast for the same reason. It has added strengtheners and enzymes. Won't help with your sourdough though :)

https://redstaryeast.com/red-star-products/platinum-yeast/
I tried Red Star's 'instant sourdough' yeast earlier this year, and I wasn't impressed at all. It gave my dough a weak rise and there was no detectable sourdough flavor whatsoever. I don't know if I just didn't use enough of it or I got an old packet or what, but I definitely gave it all the right conditions to do it's job. I would think that even if the yeast was too old to give a good rise, it still should have given the promised sourdough flavor, but it definitely didn't But I would still give that other product a try.
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Offline DoouBall

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #78 on: October 28, 2021, 11:40:09 PM »
I tried Red Star's 'instant sourdough' yeast earlier this year, and I wasn't impressed at all. It gave my dough a weak rise and there was no detectable sourdough flavor whatsoever. I don't know if I just didn't use enough of it or I got an old packet or what, but I definitely gave it all the right conditions to do it's job. I would think that even if the yeast was too old to give a good rise, it still should have given the promised sourdough flavor, but it definitely didn't But I would still give that other product a try.

I had the same results with Le 5 Stagioni Naturkraft. My theory is that the dried sourdough either doesn't have any live sourdough bacteria, or it doesn't have enough of them to add a significant amount of flavor to the dough after only a single rise from dry starter to finished dough. With Naturkraft, I proved the theory by using a Ph Meter. Ph drops normally to around 5.5-5.6 with a direct yeasted dough after 24h fridge bulk. When adding 4% Naturkraft, my dough Ph was the exact same 5.5 - it's as if the Naturkraft wasn't even there. I imagine the instant sourdough is the same story. For context, my sourdough bread dough drops to about Ph 4.5 at the end of bulk. Even a hybrid dough with a mix of sourdough starter and IDY dropped to Ph 4.77.

The regular Platinum IDY is a bit different because it contains dough strengtheners and enzymes - but that's more about controlling dough texture and strength rather than flavor.
Alex

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Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #79 on: October 28, 2021, 11:52:48 PM »
I had the same results with Le 5 Stagioni Naturkraft. My theory is that the dried sourdough either doesn't have any live sourdough bacteria, or it doesn't have enough of them to add a significant amount of flavor to the dough after only a single rise from dry starter to finished dough. With Naturkraft, I proved the theory by using a Ph Meter. Ph drops normally to around 5.5-5.6 with a direct yeasted dough after 24h fridge bulk. When adding 4% Naturkraft, my dough Ph was the exact same 5.5 - it's as if the Naturkraft wasn't even there. I imagine the instant sourdough is the same story. For context, my sourdough bread dough drops to about Ph 4.5 at the end of bulk. Even a hybrid dough with a mix of sourdough starter and IDY dropped to Ph 4.77.

The regular Platinum IDY is a bit different because it contains dough strengtheners and enzymes - but that's more about controlling dough texture and strength rather than flavor.
I have yet to incorporate the use of a pH test meter into my pizza dough regimen, but I do own a couple of them for other food purposes. Do you think it has made a major impact your processes in making pizza dough?
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