Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => New York Style => Topic started by: chickenparm on June 25, 2011, 03:01:35 AM

Title: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on June 25, 2011, 03:01:35 AM
I decided to try using the broiler method,and since it was my first time,I was not sure how long to cook the bottom then move to the broiler.I know my old oven gets very hot at times,and I did not factor that in tonight.

I ended up with a 5 minute pie,but in reality,it could have been perfect in 4 minutes or even less.I ended up over cooking the crust and cheese somewhat,but I am really happy so far. I do like my pizza well done,but I do know sometimes a bit overcooked can be overkill.

I also cannot explain it,but the pizza tastes so much better than before,over just cooking down on the lower stone itself.The rim had a wonderful crispy crunch I never was able to duplicate before.

I cooked the pie for 2 minutes on the stone on the lowest rack,then I put the pie on the top rack under the broiler,and my goal was another 2 minutes,but in between taking pics,and getting stuff ready,I left it in for 3 minutes,following the timer I had.

The dough was a 14 inch,63% hydration.I used KABF and it rose for 2 days in the fridge after it was done mixing in the bread machine.I used fresh mozz cheese and home made sauce combined with puree and fresh tomatoes mixed in from the farmers market.







Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on June 25, 2011, 03:05:17 AM
few more pics...
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on June 25, 2011, 03:09:16 AM
pic of the bottom...
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: Jackie Tran on June 25, 2011, 03:32:49 AM
Bill your 5 min pie looks great and that crumb shot is awesome!  Welcome to the world of the NY hybrid pie.    Pies between 3-4min can be awesome.   I have also gotten really fantastic pies in the 2.5m realm.  I think there are fantastic pies to be had in the full spectrum of baking times and temps between 1m all the way upto 20m.  It all boils down to what textural qualities you enjoy and balancing the dough and bake.

Good work!
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: norma427 on June 25, 2011, 08:15:14 AM
Bill,

Your pie really looks beautiful.  Great crumb, too!   :)

Norma
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: TXCraig1 on June 25, 2011, 10:39:34 AM
Very nice pie Bill. I like the cornice a lot - inside and out.

CL
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: Pete-zza on June 25, 2011, 11:04:07 AM
Bill,

Very nice job.

Some time ago, I discussed another way of baking a NY style pizza in which the pizza is started at an upper oven rack position and then moved down to a preheated stone. See, for example, Reply 45 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2223.msg20965.html#msg20965. Of course, since that post, other innovative and creative methods have been devised and discussed by members on the forum. For me personally, I always like to be able to see the pizza while it is baking. That means that I won't be able to see the pizza in my oven if the pizza is too close to the broiler. I have to open the oven door to peek at the pizza to see how it is baking. My oven door has a glass window but it is not high enough to see a pizza baking a few inches below the broiler, and opening the door to check on the pizza lets out a lot of heat. Also, it takes real skill to load a big pizza, for example, a pizza larger than 16" (assuming the stone is big enough for that size) into a small space below the broiler element. I also do not relish the idea of moving a preheated pizza stone at over 500 degrees F from one position in the oven to another position.

Peter
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on June 25, 2011, 03:04:55 PM
Thanks for all the nice words of support folks! It was a fun experiment and Im sure to do again and again.
I know I keep making boring azz cheese pies,those are for experiments.When I dial a pizza recipe in I like,then I add other toppings,and the family eats.

Once I dial this in,I will eventually learn to make pies under 4 minutes hopefully.
 ;D

I wanted to post,I cooked the pie on the bottom stone on the lowest rack,but when I moved it to the upper rack under the broiler,I took it out with my thin metal peel,then moved the pie onto a large screen so it would not fall through the upper rack itself or dip into it.The bottom was pretty much cooked nicely by then.Having different sized screens allow me to place one on the upper rack,ready to slide a pie off the peel,onto there.No handling of dangerous,hot stones.

I agree with Peter,I like to be able to see the pizza.I dont even have a glass door,and when its under the broiler,its a little harder to see with the door open.Once I know about how fast the pie cooks under the broiler,I can take it out earlier or to do a quick look over before sliding it all the way out.Also,having an over sized screen on there,can make it easier with oven gloves,to remove.

 :)

Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: fazzari on June 25, 2011, 07:27:44 PM
Bill
I think the bottom of your pizza says it all.....I think your pizza looks fabulous!!!

John
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on June 25, 2011, 08:54:42 PM
Thanks John and everyone again,for the nice words.
 :)
I believe this pie could have been just fine at 4 minutes to maybe 4:30.Taking it out at 5 minutes was a bit over done,but thats all part of the fun.

I also forget,many times,when I take a pizza out,it continues to cook and brown for maybe another minute outside the stone,because its so hot,resulting in a much darker color as compared to when first taking it out.I noticed after a few minutes of a pie sitting out,it darkens a bit,depending on how much sugar or oil I may have used.

These steps are helping me understand my dough better,and with higher heat,comes possibly little to no oil or sugar needed.Gonna be a hard habit to break,because I love the taste of it.
 :)






Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on June 26, 2011, 02:18:09 AM
Well,I did another experiment tonight,I was kind of shocked by how it turned out.I made a goal for a 4 minute pie and I still ended up overcooking the pizza at 4 minutes!I used a timer,and took it out at 4 minutes.

This pizza was probably ready in the 3 minute range somewhere I would imagine.Dont get me wrong,the slices were great,I loved it,but it was overdone again using the broiler.The pie cooked on the bottom stone for a little over 2 minutes,and I moved the pie to the top rack under the broiler for the next 2.

Here are a few pics...



Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on June 26, 2011, 02:18:55 AM
Sorry folks,I uploaded the cam pics and its not showing.I will post them as soon as I can.
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on June 26, 2011, 02:26:07 AM
Hope this works...exactly 4 minute pie.Wonderful,and a bit softer and chewier,despite being over done on top.
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on June 26, 2011, 02:45:39 AM
I found some not so blurry crumb shots to share.The one below in the middle is just a big void between slices.My other pics are blurry and would give ya vertigo looking at it.

 :-[



Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: hammettjr on June 26, 2011, 05:45:17 PM
Wow! Hold on to that oven!

How was the bottom of the four minute pie? Are you doing anything differently to preheat, or just the usual 550? I've been wondering if using the broiler during the preheat would help get the stone hotter.

Matt
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on June 26, 2011, 09:42:16 PM
Hi Matt,

For the 4 minute pie,

I just turn the knob to one notch past 550 on Bake,as far as it goes,and about 30-45 minutes the stone on the lowest rack reads about 610-620 degrees F.

Launch the pie,then turn on the broiler.After 2 minutes,place the pie off the stone,under the broiler.

Im still learning how much time to do the bottom and the top.Here is the bottom after 2 minutes.It cooked enough to be done for most folks that don't want too dark a char.I liked it as well.I prefer mine a bit more cooked but was happy with this one.More chewey than crispy,still tasted very good,not undercooked at all,even for the color.

Maybe 2 and half minutes on the bottom and 1 minute or less under the broiler? Not sure yet...gonna experiment some more this week coming up.Broiler cooks the top super fast,and need to dial that time in.


Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: hammettjr on June 26, 2011, 10:21:32 PM
Thanks Bill, look forward to seeing the continuation of your experiment.



Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on July 14, 2011, 01:59:30 AM
I was trying to do something tonight,make a Neo NY style pie.I did not realize until the last minute,I only had part skim milk cheese left in the fridge.

I put 4 basil leaves on,and one got burned bad,so I took it off after the pie came out.

4 minute pie on the stone with the broiler top bake used for 45 seconds.Does not look like much but tasted very good.I let the oven warm up for 30 minutes and it just did not get hot enough to cook in high 2 minutes or 3 minute range.

Still,I wanted to post the pictures.











Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: norma427 on July 14, 2011, 07:35:49 AM
Bill,

I think your pizza is very tasty looking and your crumb also looks good!   :)

Norma
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on July 14, 2011, 01:57:43 PM
Thanks Norma...

The rim was too big for my liking,since I prefer to stretch the dough out more.Did not think it would get that big.Ah it was edible enough to enjoy.
 :)
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: communist on July 14, 2011, 03:03:12 PM
Bill, I like your pies.  I think our dough is very similar, that is 63% and 2 day cold ferment, and I am a fan of the 4 minute bake with broiler assist for 45 second. 
Good work!
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: Moondance on July 14, 2011, 06:48:13 PM
Those pics look great to me.  So you are cooking it on the stone on the bottom rack and then moving it to the  screen and cooking it on the screen under the broiler?
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: Moondance on July 14, 2011, 06:56:47 PM
Those pics look great to me.  So you are cooking it on the stone on the bottom rack and then moving it to the  screen and cooking it on the screen under the broiler?

Never mind, I re-read and see that is what you did.  I may try that tomorrow night.  I have not been getting as much puffiness lately just staying on the bottom rack.  But maybe I'll try one rack down from under the broiler so I can see the pie through the oven window (as Pete mentioned). 

I look forward to reading about your next pies.
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on July 14, 2011, 10:02:19 PM
Bill, I like your pies.  I think our dough is very similar, that is 63% and 2 day cold ferment, and I am a fan of the 4 minute bake with broiler assist for 45 second. 
Good work!

Thanks Buddy....I have been noticing,my best pies are around 4 minutes..give or take.I have made a few high 2 minute pies but I was not very happy with the outcome.They were good,but did not taste fully cooked.I do need alot more heat and a better stone or steel.I keep saying that and then I dont order anything new for a while.
 :-D

So for now,depending on the pie size,and how hot the oven gets,a 3-5 minute pie is probably my best shot to get what I like best.I may try another pie to reach the 2 minute range again,but Im not convinced Its going to be what I want yet.I will still take pics and post progress,whether they are great or not.


 :)
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on July 14, 2011, 10:13:15 PM
Never mind, I re-read and see that is what you did.  I may try that tomorrow night.  I have not been getting as much puffiness lately just staying on the bottom rack.  But maybe I'll try one rack down from under the broiler so I can see the pie through the oven window (as Pete mentioned). 

I look forward to reading about your next pies.

Regina,as you can see,I have done the pies both ways.I cook on the stone,then move it up to a screen under the broiler,or I moved the stone up to the broiler area and finish the pie there.See my other NY threads about the 3 minute and 2 minute pies for more info.One I put on the second lower rack and it looked nothing like the top rack pie.If you need the link,let me know.

I will say,after about 2 minutes of bake time on the bottom stone,Im not getting any more real rim rise when I move it up under the broiler.I think its as high as it can go after 2 minutes on the bottom stone.The broiler bake just seems to cook the top faster,and brown the rim and cheese faster,or burn it like in some pics here and there if I am not careful.

I still have some figuring out to do.I can still make decent 5-7 minute pies and lower times as well,all depends if I use the broiler to finish the baking.If I had the heat or a surface that could cook the bottom rim around 1 minute or so,the broiler end bake could possibly finish it in under 2 minutes in theory.

That said,sometimes I just launch a pie onto the bottom stone and leave it there until done.Might take 5 minutes but it comes out when I visually see its done to my liking.Its going to take a few experiments to get the technique down on this oven to make 3-4 minute pies Consistently.
 :)








Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: DrivenAgain on July 16, 2011, 06:57:55 AM
Bill your pies look awesome!  We seem to have a similar cooking style.  :chef:  I'm also using KABF, Whats your dough formulation for these pies?

Jason
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on July 16, 2011, 06:05:01 PM
Thank You Jason!

I use a bread machine to make the dough.It does all the work really.
 :angel:

I use either KABF or I use Bouncer HG flour.Sometimes I mix them together 50/50 or 80/20.I'm still going back and forth because they each taste different in the end,and sometimes I want this flour made pie than the other.I use the lehmanns dough calculator just about every time I need to make a pizza and want to try a slightly higher or lower hydration or other change in the mix.Im not as advance as alot of folks are and this calculator does help me to stay consistent and learn faster.

With my bread machine,Dump the water and oil into the mixing bowl first. I use cool tap water or bottled water in the jug.

In another bowl,mix the flour,salt,IDY yeast and sugar together.

Dump that flour mix into the water and oil mix in the mixing bowl and press start.Thats all there is.I do check on the dough sometimes to see if it needs a little more flour or water,but so far,most doughs I have made with the calculator tools,always come out spot on.

When its done mixing I ball it up and put into an oiled bowl for the cold rise for 2-3 days,depending if I will be be having pizza that next day or two.
 :)

-Bill

Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on July 23, 2011, 01:50:17 AM
I almost made a new topic,since Its a bad habit of mine.I make new topics,mainly,to put something new outside of my current experiments to let folks know I did something a bit other than what the topic calls for.

I decided to keep it here,since it was another 5 minute pie,and I used the broiler for about 45 seconds to finish the top.5 minutes cooked below,and 45 seconds under the broiler.

I ended up burning the fresh mozz cheese somewhat.Not a big deal,the pizza was so good,my family was asking me to do this one again soon.They loved it!
 :o

Whats different? I baked it on a 18 inch screen,placed ontop of the smaller 15 inch stone.I only had 8 ounces of fresh mozz cheese,so I wanted to see if I could make a pie that large work with a small amount of fresh mozz.I still got a nice rim rise and cooked bottom with my screen on top of the stone.

What made things a little easier,the fresh mozz,is the pearl cuts.The entire ball is already cut into small ball-like shape pieces,stuck together,like small balls of pearls,so nothing got wasted.

If anything,this amount of cheese size is probably better for a 16 inch or smaller,but still did the job nicely in the end.For me,I hated the fact the fresh mozz broke down alot and burned in a few places,but the end results was not noticable when eating to anyone.Besides that,I am really impressed with this cheese,and will use it soon for a smaller pie and faster cook time.

Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on July 23, 2011, 01:52:15 AM
Rest of the pictures.I cut the pie into 4 GIANT slices.After the pics were done,they were cut into smaller 8 slices.
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: norma427 on July 23, 2011, 09:02:46 AM
Bill,

Nice job again, with your experimenting!   :)  Your talents sure are expanding!

Norma
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on July 23, 2011, 07:57:39 PM
Thank You for the nice words Norma!
 :-[

I like trying new things with what little I may have at home or to use at times.I'm hoping it helps a lot of newbies that sign up see what was done and learned.

I think next time I make a pie this way,with this type of cheese,and finish with the broiler,I will bake the pie with sauce ONLY,first,and the last minute or two,add the cheese,and see if it melts to perfection to match the crust finish.I need to see if its doable that way.


 :)



Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on July 24, 2011, 10:31:37 PM
I made another 14 inch pizza last night and topped it off with chicken parm pieces.I devoured the whole thing myself.Shame on me.The pics cannot do it justice,it was so good.Never had so much orange oil before either.It took me about 5 minutes to bake this pie.I did not use the broiler at all.The oven was on for about an hour and a half,I was busy doing other things before I made the pizza.At least it wasnt a boring cheese pie all over again!!
 ;D

Just so you know,the pizza is on the screen to cool off.I did not bake it on the screen at all.
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: scott123 on July 24, 2011, 11:35:49 PM
Looks good, Bill.

Cooked or uncooked sauce?  I don't put chicken parm on pizza, but when I put meatballs on a pizza, I like a cooked pasta-ish sauce.
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: hammettjr on July 25, 2011, 10:34:16 PM
Wow, looks great!

Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on July 25, 2011, 11:31:50 PM
Looks good, Bill.

Cooked or uncooked sauce?  I don't put chicken parm on pizza, but when I put meatballs on a pizza, I like a cooked pasta-ish sauce.

Scott,

I did not use a cooked sauce for the pizza.I mixed a sauce out of Cento Puree.Believe it or not,I used your advice to me,from a while back,to add a little water to help the cheese bubble better.The puree was too much on the thick side to be used as is.Using a little water always did the trick!
 8)

The chicken parm on the pie,however,had a little tiny bit of cooked sauce stuck on it,from being leftovers from lunch earlier in the day.Normally,I make a few extra pieces of chicken parm breaded,cooked,with no sauce or cheese,and put to the side as a pizza topping for later.I use them in chicken rolls and calzones as well.I chop them up into small bites and they do a great job.

My kids ended up eating the chicken parm pieces I had set aside,so I only had a large piece leftover that had sauce/cheese already on it sitting in the fridge,that I cut up and spread around the pie.I did scrape off the cheese/sauce as much as I could before topping.The oily marinara sauce stuck to the chicken may have aided in the extra oil a little more.It was so good though!

Back in the mid '90's,alot of pizza places where I lived,began to offer different style NY pies with all kinds of toppings I had not seen before.Chicken parm was one of them.I loved it more than anything.This was a nice break from the same old menu year after year that had just a few toppings.

Another One of my favorites is a Pasta Pie served by a place I used to eat at.It had Rigatoni everywhere,tiny bit of (vodka sauce maybe?),finyl chopped onions,hint of garlic,white sauce/ricotta cheese sauce every where topped with with mozz and basil.It was incredible.One slice could seriously stuff you full.I could barely eat 2 slices of that stuff.

I may have the sauce terms wrong,I never asked them what it was called.Just describing the best I can remember.Its been many years.

There was one more I enjoyed,it had broccoli,spinach,white sauce,sliced tomatoes,red onions,garlic,basil,and a few other items I cannot recall right away.I hope to learn how to make some of those as well.Its been a long time since I had any of those.

As with the meatballs,one of my favorite places would put sliced meatballs on top of the pie.Some places put them on in sort of a dice form,little chunks here and there.All were really good from what I recall.

 :)








Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on July 25, 2011, 11:32:40 PM
Wow, looks great!



Thanks Matt! Pictures cannot do justice,I really loved it.I gotta watch the waistline these days too!
 :-D
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: Jackie Tran on July 26, 2011, 01:42:14 AM
Looking good  Bill.  That crust looks great as well.  So you are slowly working away from cheese only pies huh?  What's next, pineapple?  JK

Chau
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on July 26, 2011, 01:33:31 PM
Looking good  Bill.  That crust looks great as well.  So you are slowly working away from cheese only pies huh?  What's next, pineapple?  JK

Chau
:-D

Thanks Chau...

I will always be a cheese man first!
:)

Seriously,

I have made other pies before with different toppings,but we ate them up and I never bothered to post pics of them.During pizza night we tend to have toppings such as grilled italian chicken,sausage,pepperoni,bell peppers,sweet onion,meatball or whatever there is they want at the time.

Recently,I decided to take pics of any pizza I make just in case something good comes out of it.Usually cheese only experiments save me time and money.If its nasty,Im not out too much work either.
These days they are just about all good so anything goes.

8)


Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on August 01, 2011, 12:49:19 AM
Well folks...Im at the point to where I can't really make my NY style pies any better.But that wont stop me from trying new things.

I want to make more of a Neapolitan style pie,and hope to get there sometime soon.I have been making a few hybrids of a NY-Neo style pie the past week and if I can call it that,I'm happy with the results.

Sadly,I am unable to get my oven temps up there as of yet.600-620 degrees F if I am lucky,then a little broiler bake to finish the top.2-3 minute pies with the broiler just doesn't give me the taste I want nor the finish.4-5 minutes with the broiler is producing the best results so far.I had a few decent 3 minutes,but at the temps I cooked at,something was missing.

Anyway,here is a few pics of a Ny-neo style wannabe pizza I made.It was actually very good.The dough had no oil or sugar.Just Flour,water,yeast and salt.Fresh mozz ontop of the homemade sauce.

This was hard to brown and cook at the temps I had.Don't be fooled by the pics,the crust was alot lighter in color when I removed from the oven.It got a little darker when it sat out and the lighting also makes it look darker.











Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on August 01, 2011, 02:34:48 AM
I made another pie tonight and it decided to marry the stone.After 3 minutes of cooking on the stone,I used my metal peel to lift/turn the pie around and a small spot was stuck to the stone.So I was unable to rotate or move it to finish under the broiler.

So I left it there to cook about 6 minutes without the broiler finish.The fresh mozz cheese broke down and there was a small hole in the pie.I took the pie out and had to scrape a little bit to get it off.Lucky,it was a very small hole,but I really wanted to rotate the pie and then finish it under the broiler.

Maybe next time.This pie dough is the same as the recent one.No sugar or oil.14 inch,65% hydro,KABF,flour,water,yeast and salt.You can see how much lighter it was even by 6 minutes as compared to the former pie finished under the broiler.

Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on August 01, 2011, 02:38:37 AM
A pie I made last night,here are a few shots.Im still having trouble with the camera,it shuts off and comes back on sometimes.Having trouble loading all the other pics to the computer.Same recipe as the others.No sugar,no oil,65% hydro.




Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: DrivenAgain on August 01, 2011, 12:18:23 PM
Bill,

I think the pie in your nearlypolitan attempt looks good!  Ive been flirting with this style recently because it calls for a quicker cook time, which allows the natural mozz to stay intact, something I almost cannot achieve with my ny style and its 5+min bake times.  But one thing I have noticed is that the smaller the dough ball the quicker cook time I can get.  As a humble suggestion, maybe drop the dough ball weight and skin size and see how that works for you?  Maybe a 270g-280g with an 11" skin spread and see how you like that?  My pies are getting smaller, cook time is going down, and natural flavor is coming back up.  :chef:

Jason
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on August 01, 2011, 03:58:32 PM
Jason,

Thanks for the advice and comments.

Thats what Im planning on doing.I have been making them a little smaller,and Im going to drop them down to 11 and 12 inch in size.My 14 and up pies are too NY ish and they are great but I did realize to get the look,crumb and finish,I need to go smaller in size.

I am going to use up my 2 other 14 inch doughballs this week and make some new 11 and 12 inch doughs.Then I will post more about those.
 :)
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: Moondance on August 03, 2011, 01:36:41 PM
Well folks...Im at the point to where I can't really make my NY style pies any better.But that wont stop me from trying new things.

Hi Bill,
Those pizzas look really great.  Can you break down your final recipe?  Earlier you were using oil, then not.  I'd like to try it out on my next mix. 

Thanks!
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: BillsPizza on August 03, 2011, 02:33:50 PM
Regina,

Thanks for the nice comments!This is me using my other account.

Using the Lehmanns dough calculator,just make a dough of your size you want,with no oil or sugar.Thats it.

For my current recipes,Im using a 65% hydration with Bouncer HG flour,but I tend to use 60-63% with Bread flour.

Sea salt used is at 3%. IDY is about.02 %

I swear I'm loving these new doughs.They are a bit harder to brown,but they taste wonderful.My wife tried some recently and said its like not eating typical pizza anymore,its something more,compared it to like having fine wine with a fancy steak instead of  burgers and soda.She really loved it.I'm still learning so I will pass along what I can as I go.

I still use sugar and oil for my 18 inch NY street style pies that I make for the kids at times.They love it and it cooks easier in the oven that way.
 :)





Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: DrivenAgain on August 03, 2011, 05:01:39 PM
My wife tried some recently and said its like not eating typical pizza anymore,its something more,compared it to like having fine wine with a fancy steak instead of  burgers and soda.
Makes all of the hard work worth it, what an awesome thing for her to say.
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: BillsPizza on August 03, 2011, 10:21:29 PM
Makes all of the hard work worth it, what an awesome thing for her to say.

Thanks for the nice comment.It was actually surprising coming from her.She doesnt even like the bones or the rim of any pizzas.She always tosses them out or gives them to the dog.With these,she ate the rim as well.

Its a start..hope to make better and better pies!

 :)


Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: Moondance on August 04, 2011, 01:16:36 PM
Regina,


For my current recipes,Im using a 65% hydration with Bouncer HG flour,but I tend to use 60-63% with Bread flour.

Sea salt used is at 3%. IDY is about.02 %

I swear I'm loving these new doughs.They are a bit harder to brown,but they taste wonderful.My wife tried some recently and said its like not eating typical pizza anymore,its something more,compared it to like having fine wine with a fancy steak instead of  burgers and soda.She really loved it.I'm still learning so I will pass along what I can as I go.

 

Thanks for sharing your recipe.  I mixed up 2 dough balls last night for this Friday's pizza night.  I did the full 11.5 minute mix in my bread machine and then into the fridge.  I must admit the 3% salt seemed like alot to me.  More than I have used so far.  However, I have read on some other posts that the higher amount of salt resulted in a really great pie.  I do use a high quality Celtic Sea Salt so it will be interesting to see if we like it better.  I'll let you know!
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: Pete-zza on August 04, 2011, 01:39:37 PM
IDY is about.02 %

Bill,

I just noticed the above percent for the IDY. Did you actually mean 0.02%, or did you mean to say 0.20%?

Peter
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on August 04, 2011, 01:40:28 PM
I agree about the salt,if its too high,cut back.Just a few trial doughballs with different amounts might do the trick.Im up at 3% but might drop it down to 2.5 to see if theres a noticable difference.For me,there is a noticeable difference from 2% already.
 :)
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on August 04, 2011, 01:42:59 PM
Bill,

I just noticed the above percent for the IDY. Did you actually mean 0.02%, or did you mean to say 0.20%?

Peter

Ah,I must have typed it in wrong earlier and didn't catch it.Yes,Peter,that is correct,that would be 0.20%.
Thanks for catching that.
 :)
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on August 07, 2011, 03:37:58 AM
I made another cheese pizza tonight...shocking eh?
 :-D

 Its really to see what my doughs are going to do.

This was an KA AP flour dough,IDY,3% salt,63% hydration.16 inch doughball recipe.TF was at .09.No sugar or oil was added.I was amazed the AP floured dough browned as much as it did.Pizza cooked in 5 minutes on the screen,then 35 seconds under the broiler.I cooked it longer due to the screen use.I hate screens but its what I have to use to make pizzas over 16 inches.

Dough was stretched THIN to an 18 inch size.I had to use the screen,on top of the 15 stone to bake it.Dough was very strong,it stretched normally,did not pull back,but felt strong,Like I could stretch it as far as I wanted it to.

Dough did not feel over extensible,tear or feel weak anywhere.It was wonderful.I dont know if the pics will show it clearly.It was a fantastic tasting pie.I love how thin the slices were,and folding it to eat was heaven,even if I had to use a screen.Crust still cooked nicely with it.

Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: Jet_deck on August 07, 2011, 07:30:55 AM
Shut the front door.

Hells bells your making me hungry. :chef:
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: fazzari on August 07, 2011, 09:21:41 AM
Bill, the bottom of that one says it all.....EXCELLENT!

John
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: Pete-zza on August 07, 2011, 09:44:51 AM
Bill,

I think a good part of your results might be explained by your high use of salt. 3% salt is high and, at that value, you are going to get a lot of strengthening of the gluten matrix and dough and you will impede the performance of the protease enzymes. Both of these effects will affect the handling characteristics of the dough. To put 3% salt into perspective, it is about between what is recommended by bread experts for bread dough and pizza dough and acrobatic dough (see Reply 5 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1399.msg13697/topicseen.html#msg13697). 3% salt is also not much less from a saliinity standpoint than sea water (see Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12282.msg116337/topicseen.html#msg116337).

The high salt level can also contribute to increased crust coloration by impeding the performance of the yeast. As a result, the yeast does not use as much of the sugars released by amylase activity, leaving more of the sugar as residual sugar to contribute to crust coloration. This aspect of salt is discussed in the King Arthur article on salt at http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/salt.html. Of course, how you bake the pizza, including putting it under the broiler to get more crust coloration through caramelization of sugars, will be a factor in the final results.

For more on salt and how it performs in a dough, see also the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8764.msg75936.html#msg75936.

Peter
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on August 07, 2011, 07:30:47 PM
Thanks for all the nice comments everyone.Im always looking to learn new things,make different doughs,and see what the results are.

Peter,thanks for posting that Info.I really did not know much about the salt and the effects.Since I have been making doughs without oil or sugar on a more regular basis than in the past,I'm seeing changes more noticeable than before.

Thats helping me recognize changes in the dough a little more than before.Im not sure if Im mistaken,but it seems like with oil and sugar in the dough,it was masking subtle changes I may have tried to see if anything different would happen,and It did not.

Might just be in my head.
 :-D

Im off to read some links now.Thanks again.

Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on August 07, 2011, 10:24:53 PM
Peter,

I have a question to ask.Im going to quote you again from earlier.
Bill,

I think a good part of your results might be explained by your high use of salt. 3% yeast is high and, at that value, you are going to get a lot of strengthening of the gluten matrix and dough and you will impede the performance of the protease enzymes. Both of these effects will affect the handling characteristics of the dough.


I did not use 3% yeast.Were you talking about yeast or salt,or both? I used a 1/4 tsp of yeast for this dough.The salt was at 3%.I went back and read what I wrote and it might look like I meant 3% of yeast,but I wanted to point out it wasn't that high.Just the salt was.

Thanks for your time.

-Bill






Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: Pete-zza on August 08, 2011, 06:40:09 AM
Bill,

I meant 3% salt but erroneously said yeast. I have corrected my earlier post. Thanks for catching my error.

Peter
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: Moondance on August 08, 2011, 01:39:09 PM
Bill,

I tried your recipe for last Friday nights pizzas.  I cooked them on my 1/4" steel plate and they were very good.  I used the correct amount of yeast with the 3% salt.  It didn't taste like too much salt.  I may cut back a little anyway.  My husband said don't change the recipe!  Thanks! :pizza:
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on August 08, 2011, 02:57:54 PM
Regina,
Im glad it worked out well for you all! I am still playing around with the salt amounts too.Im not a salt lover,never have been,but wanted to see what the dough and flavors would be if I simply upped it some.

While KABF is my pick,A few more trials with different flours will tell me a little more.I was really amazed the KA AP flour came out as well as it did.A while back I used it and I was not happy with it.That dough had sugar and oil in it that time.Maybe thats why.

The Bouncer and KA BF were close enough,but the Bouncer,since it was HG was more chewier.
Thats typical of that flour though.

Believe it or not,my plans was to try and make some thin Chicago style soon.Its a bit different than NY style and I enjoy it at times.Will continue to keep all posted.
 :)

Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: PizzaEater101 on August 19, 2011, 01:23:04 PM
Bill, I'm a bit late to the (pizza) party, as I have not been posting or reading the forum much but now I am and I have to say your pies look great.  You seriously made pies that look like they are from wood-fired pizza ovens.  They look great.  Your pies have improved so much since you've been posting here last year.  Great job buddy!  :chef:
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: Essen1 on August 19, 2011, 03:05:01 PM
Bill,

Excellent looking pies! Made my mouth water  ;D
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on August 19, 2011, 06:19:00 PM
Thanks for the nice replies! Its still a long work in progress,but Im closer to where I want to be taste wise than before.
 :)

I did try to cut back the salt on a recent pie and I still liked it a lot at 2%.After a few pies, I think 3% might be a tad bit too salty for my taste buds at times.Still,am very pleased with the results.Just trying new things and sharing the ideas is what its all about.





Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: PizzaEater101 on August 19, 2011, 06:39:49 PM
Bill, your pies are so good now there is probably no reason for you and your family to go out to get pizza anymore, well, except for an occasional trip to Sbarro.   

My recent pies have turned out pretty good too.  I'll still go out for pizza tho.  If I'm near a Sbarro I will because I still like Sbarro and if I go to one of the other NY pizza places but for the most part mine is up with them.

I recently made a 1.5% salt pie and I liked it better than 2%.  But either way, 2 or 1.5 are good.
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on August 19, 2011, 09:50:43 PM
Bill, your pies are so good now there is probably no reason for you and your family to go out to get pizza anymore, well, except for an occasional trip to Sbarro.   

My recent pies have turned out pretty good too.  I'll still go out for pizza tho.  If I'm near a Sbarro I will because I still like Sbarro and if I go to one of the other NY pizza places but for the most part mine is up with them.

I recently made a 1.5% salt pie and I liked it better than 2%.  But either way, 2 or 1.5 are good.

Thanks Bud,and thats great to hear about your experiments turning out great.I understand about the salt usage,different amounts for different folks.Heck I still like dough with no salt in it.Experimenting is key for everyone.

Im still struggling a little bit with Balance though.And with Balance,I mean the amount of sauce,cheese,toppings and etc. to make it all come together.I need to record for myself how much I use makes the difference in the end.I do get lazy and dont bother with it as much as I should.

 :-[



Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: chickenparm on August 19, 2011, 09:53:07 PM
Bill,

Excellent looking pies! Made my mouth water  ;D

Thanks,I appreciate that.I have seen your work many times and you make some really incredible pies!
 8)
Title: Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
Post by: PizzaEater101 on August 20, 2011, 12:39:23 PM
Bill, you are so right about the balance because that can make or break a pizza. Sometimes I have it down right and sometimes not.  I need to record my results of my experiments in order to be consistent when I find the right balance.