Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => Chicago Style => Topic started by: Garvey on February 09, 2012, 11:22:09 AM

Title: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 09, 2012, 11:22:09 AM
I've been making this exact recipe for almost 11 years.  It was developed by a buddy and me back in the summer of 2001.  We had to make and eat this pizza no less than five times a week that summer--tough work, but somebody's gotta do it--just to get it down pat.  It is based on a long-gone childhood pizzeria known as Pizza Factory.  There are many similar Southside/Chicagoland/Calumet Region pies like this, but this was our favorite as kids.  We had to reverse engineer every bit of the flavor profile based on memory, and then we tested it out on family and friends for confirmation.

Once we had it nailed, we went as far as to bag it up, drive it around the block, and deliver it to ourselves before eating--just for full fidelity with the childhood experience.  This picture is from 2001 (me on the right, back when I still had hair).  [Recipe to follow.]
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 09, 2012, 01:38:47 PM
wow, pizza in bags!  i've only seen that one other time in my life, and it was at Carbone's on Raldolph Ave. in Saint Paul, MN.  Seems virtually everyone is using boxes these days!

I'm looking forward to seeing the recipe you're using, and want to add it to the list of Chicago-thin formulations available on the site (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16422.0.html).  I'd like to give it a try, too!  Do you have any more pics of the pizzas????   :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 09, 2012, 02:01:44 PM
PIZZA FACTORY RECIPE

I. DOUGH

For each 14" pie, you'll need a 300 g dough ball.  Here is the recipe for two (because who in their right mind would make only one pizza? ;-))

AP Flour (100%):
Water (50%):
IDY (.5%):
Salt (1%):
Oil (8%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (160.5%):
Single Ball:
373.83 g  |  13.19 oz | 0.82 lbs
186.92 g  |  6.59 oz | 0.41 lbs
1.87 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.62 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
3.74 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.67 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
29.91 g | 1.05 oz | 0.07 lbs | 6.65 tsp | 2.22 tbsp
3.74 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.94 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
600 g | 21.16 oz | 1.32 lbs | TF = .06875
300 g | 10.58 oz | 0.66 lbs | TF = .06875

Make dough 48-72 hrs ahead (absolute minimum is 24 hrs.; my personal preference is 72; still great after 96 hrs), kept in fridge until a couple hrs before baking.  Punch down as needed during the first 12-24 hrs.  I like to separate out the dough balls after the first 24 hrs. of rising as one mass.

When making the dough, dump all the dry ingredients into the mixer bowl, stir to combine, and then add the liquids.  Mix until it the dough comes together, and then let it sit for 20 minutes, covered, to hydrate.  Resume with kneading until windowpane stage (5-10 mins).

II. SAUCE

Most recipes on this site fail to give sauce recipes.  Well, you're in luck.  Here's mine. Makes enough for two pizzas (or maybe a little more than two, depending on your preferences).

12 oz. can Contadina tomato paste
3/4 c. water
1/2 tsp. salt
1/2 tsp. black pepper
1/4 tsp. onion powder
1/8 tsp. garlic powder
1 tsp. thyme
1/2 tsp. basil
3/4 tsp. oregano
1 1/4 tsp. marjoram
1 tsp. fennel seed
1/2 tsp. McCormick Italian Seasoning
3 dashes paprika
1/2 tsp. sugar

Mix all ingredients together in a small or medium sized bowl, making sure to crush the leaves and seeds between your fingers as you add them, so that the essences of the spices are released into the sauce.  Mix well. 

Make sauce on day of baking and leave at room temp.  (If made too far ahead and refrigerated, the cold plus all the dried leaf herbs thicken the paste too much so that you will have to mix some water back in to get it to spreadable again.)

[NOTE ABOUT SPICES: Use dried spices, and use spices that are in the form of dried leaves, not the pulverized, "ground" varieties, except for salt, pepper, and the garlic and onion powders.]

OK, I admit that this may seem fussy with so many specific herbs and spices listed and even brand names.  Trust me: try it this way.  BTW, many Southside joints use tomato paste as the base, so I'm surprised more folks don't talk about that here.  And for whatever reason, Contadina is the best paste for this particular recipe.  Hunts and others just don't work nearly as well.  And since this is a saucy pie, there is a big difference.

III. ASSEMBLY

Roll out your 300 g dough ball to 14", which is just under the size of a typical pizza stone. The pizza will cook directly on the stone--no cutter pan or screen or anything. (I have lately been assembling on foil on the peel, just because I'm lazy and that's easier and less messy to slide onto the stone than cornmeal. Do whatever way you like, but you should not pan the pizza.)

Top with sauce.  I like to go pretty heavy.

Add sausage (ideally), raw and flattened out a bit, or however you like it.

Add any veggies or other toppings.

Top with about 6 oz (by weight) of shredded mozz; if you really want more, that's fine, but don't put more than 8 oz. (if you are using pre-shredded stuff, it's about 1 1/2 c to make 6 oz by weight)

IV. BAKING

Preheat a baking stone to 500° for one hour and reduce to 450° before putting in the pie.  (I like putting my stone on an upper rack, but you know your oven and local conditions better than I do.  I only know my oven.)

Carefully slide the assembled pizza onto the hot baking stone.  Bake at 450° for about 10 minutes (or 9-13 minutes, depending on your oven and your desired doneness).

When the cheese starts to brown and the crust looks golden, remove from oven and let stand on a cooling rack for 6-7 minutes before cutting.  [NOTE: The cooling rack is a key step, since it lets air under the crust to cool it and allow steam to escape; otherwise, if left on a pan, the crust will soften and no longer have that the desired texture on the bottom.  If you do not have a cooling rack, jury rig something.  At the very least, you can cool the pizza on cheap, non-waxy paper plates, which I have used with some success, since they are porous.] 

Of course, you'll need to slide it back onto a pan for cutting, which you see pictured in my profile and below.

"Party cut" only!  The square party-cut style is mandatory--never the more barbaric pie-cut. 

And then…
YOU'RE EATING PIZZA FACTORY!

Feel free to download the txt file of this recipe, pasted below the picture.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 09, 2012, 02:08:24 PM
CDNpielover:

I hope you do give this recipe a try.  Let me know how you like it.  Feel free to add it to the formulations.

Yeah, the pizza in bags thing is still around in some places around the Chicago area.  I am trying to remember if I saw any at Xmas.  My mind must be clouded by all the pizza that was inside the bag/box/whatever.

I can post more pix later, I think.  I'm sure I have some somewhere.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 09, 2012, 02:41:11 PM
Being a Chicago ex-pat, consigned to life in the South, where people think "good pizza" means Papa John's, it is pretty much impossible to find passable sausage for pizza.  And since Chicago pizza is all about the sausage, I used to go through long stretches where I wouldn't make pizza just because I couldn't source any usable sausage.

Luckily for me, Kenji Lopez-Alt at Serious Eats posted the procedure (http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/09/juicy-sweet-or-hot-italian-sausage.html) on how to make pizza sausage, so now I can go the homemade route.  Last month, I tried four different spice formulations for Pizza Factory sausage and tested them with six people from two different generations of Pizza Factory eaters.  We made multiple pies with each formulation over the course of a five day visit to determine which one tasted just like we remember.  Recipe to follow.

Maybe I should add this to one of the existing sausage threads?  BTW, I have to give thanks to CDNpielover, whom I suspect supplied one of my formulations over on the SE thread by another name.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: anikun07 on February 09, 2012, 02:42:49 PM
AWESOME!!  I can't wait to try this recipe!  Not only is the delivery to yourselves Super Awesome, but it's totally something we would do!  I also love the pizza bag, but I only knew of a few places that used to use them.  I'm excited to go back to Little Villa in Mt. Prospect next time I'm back in the Chicago area.  It's an Italian restaurant and pizzeria and they also use paper bags, at least the used to.

Thank you for your recipe, I am so excited and will definitely be sure to let you know what I think.  Just out of curiousity, do you leave the pizza out for a period of time before placing it in the fridge?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: anikun07 on February 09, 2012, 02:50:27 PM
I also meant to ask what kind of cheese you like to use?  It melted so perfectly, I haven't been able to get that look yet on my pizzas.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 09, 2012, 03:01:20 PM
PIZZA FACTORY SAUSAGE

Note: You must use a scale for this sausage. There is no way to accurately estimate the amount of salt needed otherwise. This recipe can be made with pre-ground pork as well. Mix ingredients as directed in Day 1, allow to rest at least 8 hours, then skip the grinding step and proceed as directed in the paddling step in Day 2 (i.e., all you need is the first step of Day 1 and last step of Day 2).

INGREDIENTS


PROCEDURE [Needs 24 hrs., ideally]

DAY 1:

DAY 2:

-------------------------
Adapted from J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, Serious Eats: http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/09/juicy-sweet-or-hot-italian-sausage.html, http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2011/09/the-pizza-lab-why-does-sausage-need-to-be-salty.html, and http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2011/04/the-burger-lab-whats-the-best-way-to-grind-beef.html
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 09, 2012, 03:11:40 PM
Thanks, anikun, for the feedback.

I use mozzarella cheese.  Or did you mean for me to be more specific?  I used to use pre-shredded stuff--every which brand--and actually got decent results (despite the cellulose additives, etc.).  Lately, I've been shredding my own Polly-O, Sargento, or Walmart bricks of whole milk mozz.  All have been very good.  YMMV.

Pizza in the fridge?  Whatsoever for?  ;-)  I just cut the leftovers into smaller squares and leave 'em on the counter.  There is always room for another tiny square over the course of the next couple hrs.  Eventually, I may put some away in the fridge.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: anikun07 on February 09, 2012, 04:22:45 PM
Thanks, I just tried 2% mozzarella this week, but I don't think I put enough on, I could hardly taste it.  I'm sorry, but just to clarify, so you use whole milk mozz. from just Walmart bricks, or all the brands listed?  I've only used part skim mozz. so far - besides the recent one with 2%.  I was thinking that the fat content was going to be key to the browning and flavor of the baked cheese.

About the fridge comment, I was wondering if the dough ball was placed in the fridge right away.  I didn't know if it needed room temperature or a warm spot to rise for an hour or so before going in the fridge.  Oh boy, I'm making this dough after I get home tonight!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 09, 2012, 04:28:11 PM
anikun07, i hope you don't mind if I add a few comments.   :chef:  if you're looking for more flavor in your cheese, you can try blending provolone and/or white cheddar with your mozzarella (that will also improve the creaminess and IME stretchiness, although some say it's the mozza that gives the stretchiness).  For nicely-browned cheese like Garvey has, you can try moving your pie from the bottom to the top of the oven partway through cooking, or perhaps turning on the broiler for the last couple of minutes of cooking.

cheese was the limiting factor on my pies for at least a few years.  Then I stumbled upon something where Pete-zza mentioned the use of the provolone/cheddar/mozza blend, and my pies have been awesome ever since!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: buceriasdon on February 09, 2012, 04:40:32 PM
garvey, What do you estimate the thickness factor to be? It was not included in the recipe.
Don
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: anikun07 on February 09, 2012, 05:00:27 PM
Thanks CDNPieLover, I've got "Pizza" cheese too, which I think is a combination of those cheeses, I will double check though.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 09, 2012, 07:45:21 PM
anikun07:

Use any whole milk mozz you can find.  I've had success with all three I mentioned.  I didn't blend them.  Polly-O is pretty good.  Has a bit of a "nutty" flavor, as my Italian buddy at work calls it.  And CDNpielover is right about the top rack for better browning.  I cook all my pies near the top (not the actual top rack, because that doesn't give me enough headroom to maneuver comfortably with the peel, etc., but the next one down from there).  I actually use two stones: one high and one low.  I start high and if it seems like the cheese is starting to brown before the crust is to my liking, I move it down to the lower stone, which finishes the crust faster (Kenji at Serious Eats explained all this once, and ever since then, my baking has improved dramatically).

Your "pizza cheese" should work fine.  I've used that before.  (Like I said, I've had this recipe for a while, so I've done just about every minor variation like that, depending on what we had on hand and such.)

As for refrigerating the dough, I cover the bowl with plastic wrap and put a rubber band on it to hold it on (but let gases out) and put it immediately in the fridge.  It'll rise plenty.  You don't even need particularly warm water when making the dough if using IDY.  Something like 75 degrees would be fine (room temp) or warmer or cooler if you have good yeast (i.e., not the stuff sold in little envelopes; I get the bulk stuff sold in 1 lb bricks at Sam's, which are only a few bucks anyway...so much cheaper than the envelopes and much better quality).

And make the sauce per the recipe.  Really, it is a major component.



OK, Don, you asked about thickness factor.  I had to plug the numbers back into the calculator and play with it for a while, just for you.  ;)  I'm thinking it's .06875.  Or so the calculator tells me.

Cheers,
Garvey



Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: buceriasdon on February 09, 2012, 07:49:29 PM
Garvey, Ok good,thanks, that's close to what I figured. I rounded up to .070. This way any size can be duplicated.
Don
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pete-zza on February 09, 2012, 08:07:27 PM
The easy way to calculate the thickness factor is 10.58/(3.14159 x 7 x 7) = 0.068729.

Peter
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackie Tran on February 09, 2012, 08:14:03 PM
Very nice posts Garvey.  I love the extra measures that you have taken in your process for cloning your favorite pizza.  From driving around the neighborhood and delivering pizzas to yourself to all the tests you have done with the sausage.  I haven't made sausage before but look forward to trying out your recipe.  I'm sure it will be good on any pizza.   Also glad to see Chicago pizza getting more representation. 

Cheers,
Chau
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: buceriasdon on February 09, 2012, 08:19:45 PM
Lol Peter, Oh boy, That is much easier than going back and forth adding thickness as I did starting at .060 until I got the right percentage.
Don :-D


The easy way to calculate the thickness factor is 10.58/(3.14159 x 7 x 7) = 0.068729.

Peter
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 09, 2012, 08:21:08 PM
Thanks, Chau.  Report back on the sausage if you decide to make it.  I'd like to hear your results.  I've done it with the meat grinder and with pre-ground pork.  If you use the latter, just make sure it's fatty (80/20).  

And Peter, what does the 10.58 represent?  I can figure out what the rest of the formula means, but that one has me stumped.  (I did the same thing Don did but started at .085 and worked my way down.)

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pete-zza on February 09, 2012, 08:43:38 PM
Garvey,

The 10.58 is the weight of your dough ball in ounces. It is 300 (grams)/28.35 grams per ounce = 10.58 ounces. The dough calculating tool gives weights in both ounces and grams.

Peter
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vcb on February 09, 2012, 09:11:16 PM
wow, pizza in bags!  i've only seen that one other time in my life, and it was at Carbone's on Raldolph Ave. in Saint Paul, MN.  Seems virtually everyone is using boxes these days!

There's a few places in Chicago that are still delivering pizza in those paper bags.

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pizza3.14 on February 10, 2012, 09:30:25 AM
Like many of us have done I"m sure.  I have the dough in the fridge now.  It is undivided for the 24 hour bulk fermentation.  I followed your recipe and for the procedure I used KAAP flour and a kitchen aid for most but ended up having to hand kneed the dough.  I dissolved the salt and sugar in the water added flour and yeast.  Then mixed it until is started to come together.  When I added the oil it picked up all of the flour but the hook just spun the mass around.  This is why I had to hand kneed.  I used room temp water and the final dough temp was 74F. I also used 3% bowl residue to help get whole numbers on the yeast as my scale only measures to whole gram weights. 

Tomorrow I'll divide and ball the dough and return to the fridge.  I plan on making the sauce tomorrow as well.  I hope to bake on Monday evening. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 10, 2012, 10:38:10 AM
Nicely done, Pizza3.14.  Looking forward to seeing the final product.

Word to the wise on the sauce: if you can, make it right before baking or same day and leave it out at room temp.  If made too far ahead and refrigerated, it seems to take forever to come back to room temp.  And all of those dried leaf herbs will absorb some of the moisture so that you may have to mix some water back in to get it to spreadable again (cold paste with the herbs tends to congeal/thicken a bit).  I'll add this to the recipe.

Also, for the dough, I tend to dump all the dry ingredients into the KitchenAid bowl, mix it up, then dump in the liquids and turn on the mixer until it just comes together.  Then I'll let it sit for 20 minutes, covered, to hydrate, and then resume with kneading until windowpane stage (5-10 mins).

This is excellent feedback.  Making this pizza is second nature to me.  Writing for other people to replicate it takes some doing.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pizzard on February 10, 2012, 03:02:31 PM
Your pizza looks wonderful...and yes, I love the pizza bag.  I'm curious about your oven...is it gas, or electric.  I'm guessing gas, but will feel empowered to get to work on your recipe this weekend if you say electric. 

I do think there is a difference between the two cooking methods.  We have a new electric oven, and I'm having of tough time getting the texture right on the crust.  It is a GE Profile, and even has a special setting for pizza, but I've tried cutter pans, stones, and cooking right on the rack, and just end up with chewy, flimsy pizza...no crunch.  :'(

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: buceriasdon on February 10, 2012, 03:26:14 PM
pizzard, Have you tried to dock, parbake, apply toppings, then do a final bake on a stone?
Don

Your pizza looks wonderful...and yes, I love the pizza bag.  I'm curious about your oven...is it gas, or electric.  I'm guessing gas, but will feel empowered to get to work on your recipe this weekend if you say electric. 

I do think there is a difference between the two cooking methods.  We have a new electric oven, and I'm having of tough time getting the texture right on the crust.  It is a GE Profile, and even has a special setting for pizza, but I've tried cutter pans, stones, and cooking right on the rack, and just end up with chewy, flimsy pizza...no crunch.  :'(

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: buceriasdon on February 10, 2012, 03:34:22 PM
Garvey, With some alterations I mixed up enough dough for three ten inchers for Sunday night or perhaps even Saturday. I bulk ferment in the fridge then divide and allow to come to room temp. I replaced a third of the water with whole milk and used 2% salt so it's not quite the same recipe. The sauce will also be different as I have no tomato paste, tomato puree only.
Don
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on February 10, 2012, 04:21:56 PM
Garvey, good looking thin crust pizza.  Reminds me a bit of Nino's in Roseland.  But the Pizza Factory I was not familiar with and I thought I knew of most or many of the south side or south suburban pizza places.  Where was the Pizza Factory located?  Nice job and I hope many of our members try out your formulations and report their thoughts and comments here.           --BTB 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pizza3.14 on February 10, 2012, 07:35:06 PM
The dough is in the Kitchen Aid bowl so I don't have to worry about it getting to big yet.  Did you punch it down to keep it from filling your container or as part of your procedure? 

Thanks for the specifics on the sauce.  I went out and got the few items I was missing to be sure I followed your recipe exactly.  I will make it day of.  I plan on giving it the 72 hours, was that what you found the sweet spot to be?  I would like to try it on Sunday evening if you think it is ok then.  It will be at about the 57 hour mark. 

pic of the dough about 10 hours in. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 10, 2012, 07:51:30 PM
@pizzard: sorry, I have a gas oven.  Wish I could help you out on the electric situation.  My buddy has an old electric and he preheats two stones--one high(-ish) and one low(-ish)--at 500 for at least an hour and then bakes the pies right on the stone.  Start at the top stone and if it gets too brown on top, move it to the bottom stone for finishing.

@Don: well, sounds like you got your own thing going on,  ;) but at least maybe the spice blend will be something new for you.

@BTB: Pizza Factory was in Highland, IN, just south of 80-94 and a few blocks from Hammond.  Similar style to Hammond's House of Pizza.

@Pizza3.14: I'm surprised you don't have more rising action so far.  Yes, I punch down whenever it doubles, which is usually a couple times in the first 24 hrs or as needed.  I have some high quality IDY that I get in bulk from Sam's Club that has serious rising action.  As for timing, I think you'll get great results at 57 hrs.  I baked four pizzas tonight with dough I made on Tues. (i.e., 72 hrs), and it was quite to my liking.  I think 57 hrs should be very similar. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on February 10, 2012, 10:17:42 PM
Garvey,

Excellent pie sir and i love your delivery method.  On the yeast you are using is it a fresh cake yeast?  What kind of oil do you use in the dough?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 10, 2012, 11:08:50 PM
Pythonic, thanks for the feedback.  My yeast is Fleischmann's IDY, sold in two, 1-lb vac-packs at Sam's. Great stuff.  As for oil, I've made it every which way.  Olive, corn, canola, vegetable...and the results have all been good.  That being said, I lean towards corn anymore.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on February 10, 2012, 11:14:27 PM
anikun07, i hope you don't mind if I add a few comments.   :chef:  if you're looking for more flavor in your cheese, you can try blending provolone and/or white cheddar with your mozzarella (that will also improve the creaminess and IME stretchiness, although some say it's the mozza that gives the stretchiness).  For nicely-browned cheese like Garvey has, you can try moving your pie from the bottom to the top of the oven partway through cooking, or perhaps turning on the broiler for the last couple of minutes of cooking.

cheese was the limiting factor on my pies for at least a few years.  Then I stumbled upon something where Pete-zza mentioned the use of the provolone/cheddar/mozza blend, and my pies have been awesome ever since!


CDNpielover,

What is the cheese blend ratio that pete mentioned?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on February 10, 2012, 11:15:59 PM
Pythonic, thanks for the feedback.  My yeast is Fleischmann's IDY, sold in two, 1-lb vac-packs at Sam's. Great stuff.  As for oil, I've made it every which way.  Olive, corn, canola, vegetable...and the results have all been good.  That being said, I lean towards corn anymore.

Ok grt, i just whipped a batch and guessed corn oil.  I'll post pics in a few days and give u some reviews.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on February 10, 2012, 11:17:12 PM
Garvey,

What store are you finding polly-o at in illinois?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 10, 2012, 11:24:52 PM
Pythonic, sorry, I'm down South now and don't know about IL stores anymore. If I still lived anywhere near Chicago, I wouldn't have to go to such great lengths to have good pizza: I'd just pick up the phone and order one from any number of places.  And I'd weigh 50 lbs more.  ;-)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 11, 2012, 11:43:22 AM

CDNpielover,

What is the cheese blend ratio that pete mentioned?

pythonic,

It was 50:30:20 mozza:white cheddar:provolone. I think Pete used it for a specific pizza clone (PJ perhaps?);but I use it on all of my pizzas.  Since I started making pizzas, cheese was the main thing limiting the quality...  I used many different brands of mozza from all different price points, and it always turned out really SUCKY.  the blend is awesome though, and i find that it's still awesome regardless of what brand/price of cheese you use.  I actually bought a giant brick of private label "pizza mozza" recently, and when it's blended it works just the same as the Saputo Mozzarellissima that costs 2x the price!!!  :chef:   :pizza:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pizzard on February 11, 2012, 05:21:25 PM
pizzard, Have you tried to dock, parbake, apply toppings, then do a final bake on a stone?
Don


I have tried the above methods at one time or another.  I suspect that my dough is too thin for the sauce, so I think I will try Garvey's recipe, and see about a tomato paste base sauce. 

This past summer I cooked some pizzas on the Emille Henry pizza stone (for outdoor grills).  Amazing...the flavors were so pizzeriaesq.  Here is the link http://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-690982/Emile-Henry-Red-Flame-Top-Pizza-Stone

I received this for Mother's Day...my friends couldn't believe this is what I wanted. :-D


Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: buceriasdon on February 11, 2012, 05:53:20 PM
pizzard, You perhaps should also try a longer bake time lower in the oven. Is the cheese getting too much color before the bottom is browned?
Don
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: goosen1 on February 12, 2012, 12:49:24 AM
pizzard, You perhaps should also try a longer bake time lower in the oven. Is the cheese getting too much color before the bottom is browned?
Don

Oh no... That's a perfect char on the cheese for a thin crust!!!! That's what makes the pizza so original.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: buceriasdon on February 12, 2012, 04:34:15 PM
Garvey, The changes I made to your recipe are brought about by my experience with my counter top oven to achieve better browning. My motto "Know thy oven". I'll get some pics posted later.
Don
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pizza3.14 on February 12, 2012, 05:00:56 PM
I baked the pizzas today.  They looked far from yours but I think I'm close.  The sauce is very flavorful and compliments the crust and the veggi toppings I added.  I don't think I put on enough cheese, I used 6 oz of shredded mozz but it all baked up pretty fast and didn't have that nice white stringy cheese that was on yours.  It is also possible that I should have pulled it out about 2 minutes earlier.  I cooked it the full 10 min. I would recommend to someone who is trying this dough for the first time to really watch the pizza not just set a timer.  The bottom cooked up well on the stone and the crust had a nice flavor. 

I had never made this style of pizza before thanks for the recipe and info. 

Greg
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 12, 2012, 05:11:33 PM
^^that pie looks great Greg!  Nice work!   :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 12, 2012, 07:05:28 PM
Greg, ditto what CDNpielover said--good looking za!  Crust is a nice golden hue.

Go with 8 oz if you like more cheese.  It's a matter of preference.  The fineness of the shred, too, can be a variable, as well as how far to the edge you like to go, etc.  Anything much over 8 oz gets awfully cheesy, though.  I did 6 oz for years but now that I roll out my dough to the exact size of the stone, I probably go closer to 7 or 8.  Plus, I've been going pretty heavy on the sausage, so more cheese helps achieve balance.

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: buceriasdon on February 12, 2012, 07:08:24 PM
The recipe for the crust turned out well when modified for my oven, very happy with it. I would make some further small changes for myself. I used some of my pickled vegetables for topping, broccoli, heart of palm and red onion. Yum
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 12, 2012, 07:37:06 PM
Go with 8 oz if you like more cheese.  It's a matter of preference.  The fineness of the shred, too, can be a variable, as well as how far to the edge you like to go, etc.  Anything much over 8 oz gets awfully cheesy, though. 

I actually use about 9 or 10 ounces on my 14" pies haha!   :-[
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 12, 2012, 08:27:29 PM
I just made this dough and sausage (day 1).  Holy crap, that seems like A LOT of fennel!   :-D  Although I've never made sausage before, so I don't really have any idea of what goes into it.

Plan to make this pie on Wednesday, really looking forward to it as I haven't made a Chicago thin since December!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 12, 2012, 09:40:01 PM
Went for the homemade sausage, CDNpielover?  Awesome!  Chicago pizza sausage for thin crust is pretty fennel dominant, but the ratio of 1 Tbs per lb isn't outlandish.

Be careful going as high as 9-10 oz. on the cheese.  This is pretty thin crust.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 12, 2012, 09:41:46 PM
Awesome, I'm certainly looking forward to it!  I've never been to Chicago, so I wouldn't know about the fennel sausage haha!  I know it's gonna be killer, though!   :chef: :pizza:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on February 13, 2012, 12:45:35 PM
Just wanted to report back that Garvey's chicago thin crust recipe was a success and it was really good.  The outer crust was flaky and crunchy which is just what I like.  I made a white pizza so I didn't get a chance to test out the sauce but I will soon.  I did a 60 hr cold rise and baked at 450 for about 11 mins.  Stone was preheated at 550 for about 1 hour.

Thanks so much for this recipe Garvey, it's definitely a keeper.


Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 13, 2012, 01:15:34 PM
Nice lookin' pie, pythonic!  Bad time for me to be on this forum, looking at these pictures, seeing as how I forgot my lunch today. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 13, 2012, 01:21:49 PM
I agree that those pics look awesome!  Thanks for making them bigger, too!  They were hard to see at first.   :chef:

You've got a bit of bubbling on your rim.  Did you hand stretch the dough, or did you use a rolling pin?  Did you dock it?

I agree with Garvey that these pics are making me hungry.  Good thing it's almost lunchtime here.   ;D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on February 13, 2012, 01:31:58 PM
I used a rolling pin and I docked everything but the very edge of the crust.  I was hoping i would be good with just that.  But, i think the bubbling made it taste even better (it got a flaky type texture).
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 13, 2012, 04:02:23 PM
Hey Garvey,

you say to use a mixer and paddle attachment to beat the sausage when adding the wine.  I don't have a stand mixer - can you recommend another method for doing this?  Do you think I could hand knead/squeeze the mixture until it becomes tacky?  I could also try kneading it in my bread mixer, but that just seems kinda weird haha!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 13, 2012, 04:22:51 PM
Yeah, just hand knead for a couple mins until tacky.  Or maybe start with a sturdy spoon.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 15, 2012, 09:40:47 PM
OK I made a 14" pie tonight, using the recipes for dough, sauce, and sausage that Garvey gave earlier in the thread.  It turned out AWESOME!   :chef: :pizza:  

I usually put my stone on the bottom rack and crank my over to 550 F, but this time I put the stone on a middle rack and followed Garvey's baking instructions above.  The pie cooked fine, but I had absolutely zero bottom browning.  I'm not sure if the real Pizza Factory pies were like this, but I do like better bottom browning so I will adjust my baking technique for next time.  

The sausage was awesome, as was the sauce.  I tasted the sauce when I made it, and was actually a bit scared as it contains a ton of fennel and tasted overwhelmingly like licorice.  However, I didn't notice this at all once the pie was made, which was awesome.  I also didn't use Contadina tomato paste since we don't have that brand where I live in Canada, so I'm not sure how that affected my results.

The rim was white due to bench flour, and while I wish it would've browned better, it tasted great and didn't really bother me.  

And finally, the whole pie had a really creepy grey/white appearance...  I don't know what caused that, but it doesn't look very appealing haha!  I used 3 new brands of cheese this time, I don't know if one or all of these contributed to the color.  but it sure looks gross haha!

I didn't get very good top browning this time either.  Usually I just turn on my broiler for the last 2 minutes, but for some reason it didn't want to go on this time...  oh well.   :chef:

EDIT:  oh, and I made my sausages too big, next time I plan to make those like half the size!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 15, 2012, 10:07:53 PM
CDNpielover, you nailed it!  Looks great!  Way to go!

As far as the browning bottom goes, yes, that all comes down to your local conditions of your oven.  I am totally sold on the two-stone method, start high and finish low (if needed), as the lower stone browns the crust whereas the top stone cooks the cheese and sausage more.   

All that being said, the pictures look like the correct amount of browning.  Use less bench flour, if you can, and that will also improve browning.  Furthermore, if you changed nothing and just left it in longer, you may have gotten the crust more to your preferences and browned the cheese, too, which is appropriate to style.  I never pull a pie before the cheese is at least a little browned--or a lot!

Indeed, the sauce is fennel heavy when tasted plain.  I have a buddy who uses this leftover sauce as a base for pasta sauce, but I do not like it that way at all.  IMO, it is strictly a pizza sauce.  It just works...sum greater than the parts and all that jazz.  Looks like you discovered that yourself.  :chef:

As for the size of the sausage, it is perfectly acceptable for Chicago thin to have big knobs of sausage on there.  Or go with whatever size you like.  I would say to flatten them out when they're that big--make 'em less like meatballs in that regard.  BTW, how did you like the sausage?

Man, I am totally honored that you made this pizza true to type, even down to the homemade sausage. 

Cheers to you, sir!  Hope you make it again and again.

Garvey


Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on February 16, 2012, 01:18:19 PM
CDNpielover,

I think the greyness is simply from the sausage being so big, but I'll bet that baby tasted good! I'm going to try this sauce too.

Bob
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 16, 2012, 01:35:56 PM
Dear Bob,

yes I think you are right!  I was looking at the pictures last night and realized the same thing, it seems that the sausage coming through the cheese gives that grey appearance.  I think it also combines with my white rim to give an overall grey color to the pie.  It really wasn't a big deal since the pie tasted GREAT!

Enjoy the sauce this weekend, and please get back with pics and let us know how it tasted!   :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pizza da pie on February 16, 2012, 02:38:11 PM
Quick question for all you Chicago thin lovers. I'm going to be making a couple of Chicago thins this weekend and I'm trying to decide if I should use my smaller upper oven instead of the main oven. I have a Maytag Genesis double oven that has a main 3.9 cu.ft. oven that has convection and a 2.1 cu.ft. smaller oven/broiler on top. http://www.homedepot.com/Appliances-Kitchen-Appliances-Ranges/Maytag/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbv56Zz2/R-202381787/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051&superSkuId=202717195.

Would there be any benefit to using the smaller oven? Do I run the risk of burning the crust because it would be so close to the heat source? I would obviously still use my stone so I assume that would reduce the direct heat from the bottom of the oven? I've also been considering using the convection feature on the main oven to increase the heat flow and get higher temps. Just looking for some advice.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vr6Dad on February 18, 2012, 12:21:43 PM
I don't have an answer to the above question, but I do have a report on my experience thus far.

Like Pizza 3.14, my dough ball hasn't risen much in the first 15 hrs; however, I attribute it to being in my very cold beer fridge, as I didn't have room in the kitchen fridge. This morning, I took it out of the cold fridge and put it in the regular fridge. I made enough for 3 pies, so I'll divide the dough tonight after dinner. I plan to make these on Monday night, which will be at almost 72 hours.

The dough was very scrappy, so maybe a tiny bit more water could help. As a previous poster reported, the dough hook just spun the ball around and I had to knead by hand. It's a sticky dough now. I used corn oil, which I like in thin and thick crust Chicago style. I used bulk jar IDY that I keep in the fridge. It works well for all of my other doughs, so I expect it's working fine for this. If the crust ends up being a keeper, I may mess with it a little as far as prep goes, without messing with the formulation.

I have a hard time finding good pizza sausage, so I may make a pound of the recipe today for Monday night's use.

For the sauce, I will probably use crushed tomatoes instead of the paste. 3/4 cup of water + the paste in the recipe should weigh 18oz, and my can of crushed tomatoes is 28oz. I may adjust the ingredients for weight percentage to work in the 10 extra ounces of crushed tomatoes.

Which leads to my question to those who have made this pizza: Have any of you used crushed tomatoes instead? I don't mind being true to a recipe, but I'm in Nashville and the only Chicago pizza I've ever had is Giordano's in the restaurant and Lou Malnati's shipped to the house.

I have a couple of go-to sauce and dough recipes, but I'm always happy to try new thin crusts :)  :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 18, 2012, 01:17:20 PM
^^i would really recommend using Garvey's tomato paste recipe.  i used his recipes for the dough, the sauce, and the sausage, because there are dozens of good midwestern-thin recipes on the site, and I don't really see the advantage of using Garvey's dough over any of the other good ones unless you're gonna do the whole shebang.   :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 18, 2012, 07:47:49 PM
Of course, I'd agree with CDNpielover on this.  The recipe is the recipe.  The amount of herbs and selection of herbs is optimized for tomato paste.  Even if you used puree or crushed tomatoes or whatever, they are not processed in the manor of paste, so the entire flavor profile would be off.

I guess that's one of the biggest weaknesses of this forum (IMO), that a vast majority of recipes here are dough recipes only...with a few, "meh, I took some crushed tomatoes and sprinkled the pizza with oregano" so-called sauce recipes.  The exception is in the deep dish recipes, which aren't really sauce, per se, but at least directions are given.  (One of the inherent strengths in this forum, OTOH, is that it is truly a crust forum full of real *bakers*.  This is a dough forum first.  I acknowledge it and actually dig it...although I wish someone could clone Aurelio's sauce, but now my digression has a digression...)   

Anyway, this is a complete recipe, from start to finish.  If you don't have paste and the other ingredients, go with one of your tried and true sauce recipes you like.  It just isn't Pizza Factory.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 18, 2012, 07:53:49 PM
^^Hey Garvey, you might be interested in reading about Pete-zza's excellent Papa John's clone: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6633.msg56931.html#msg56931
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 18, 2012, 08:00:03 PM
I'll assume you're joking.  With all due respect to Pete-zza, there ain't gonna be no Papa John's under my roof, cloned or otherwise.

;-)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 18, 2012, 08:02:23 PM
no, I wasn't joking - Pete-zza did an excellent job reverse-engineering that sauce.  I just thought you might be interested since you were kind of complaining that the forums don't care enough about sauce.   :chef:

I've made Pete-zzas PJ clone dough on a few occasions, too, and while it's different than the midwestern-style thin crust I grew up eating, it's still good and i'm proud to make it!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: buceriasdon on February 18, 2012, 08:24:05 PM
Seeing as how I'm one who doesn't believe that one size fits all, this recipe isn't one I would do again.
Don
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 18, 2012, 08:41:26 PM
You never actually did try this recipe, Don.  You changed the dough completely and the sauce completely. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vr6Dad on February 18, 2012, 10:06:28 PM
Of course, I'd agree with CDNpielover on this.  The recipe is the recipe.  The amount of herbs and selection of herbs is optimized for tomato paste.  Even if you used puree or crushed tomatoes or whatever, they are not processed in the manor of paste, so the entire flavor profile would be off.

I guess that's one of the biggest weaknesses of this forum (IMO), that a vast majority of recipes here are dough recipes only...with a few, "meh, I took some crushed tomatoes and sprinkled the pizza with oregano" so-called sauce recipes.  The exception is in the deep dish recipes, which aren't really sauce, per se, but at least directions are given.

Garvey, you and CDN are correct.  :-[  I will pick up a can of Contadina paste and go from there.  :pizza:

I also made the sausage per the recipe with ground sausage tonight, and will do the "kneading" with my Kitchen Aid tomorrow night or Monday morning.

I wholeheartedly agree with you about the lack of sauce "recipes," with the exception of the Aurelio's thread. I've tried several of the formulations, and tinkered with them until I find one that pleases my family. I'll start with the true recreation of your sauce recipe, and either keep it or tinker.  :chef: IMO, that is the great thing about this forum. We share our triumphs and failures, and find things that we like and that suit our families' palettes.  ;)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on February 19, 2012, 09:41:20 PM
Cha Ching!  Used 6-1 tomatoes for sauce though.  I'll be giving Garvey's sauce a run next time.


Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vr6Dad on February 24, 2012, 07:49:58 PM
I made this pizza the other night after about a 72 hour rise on the dough. It had a great 'beer' smell to it when I pulled it out of the fridge to use. It rolled out easily and had a great bite. I am about to make another 3 pizzas' worth for Sunday dinner, and it will probably become my new go-to dough recipe.  :)

I'll be honest - I didn't care for the sauce. I used Contadina 12oz can paste and followed the directions to a tee. IMHO the sauce is very fennel-heavy, to the point of being overpowering for my tastes. That's not to say that other people will like it. There's a lot of complexity in the sauce and a lot of competing flavors in the profile. Maybe (for me) severely cutting down the fennel, or cutting it out completely, will work (for me).

I also made the sausage, and it was pretty darn good. Thanks for the recipe and the link to Slice, because I'd never made any type of sausage before. Now I can tinker with the recipe, or leave it as is.

Garvey - Thanks for the thread on this pizza, as people like you recreating their favorites is great for those of us who can't make it to the big cities very often, so we get a little taste of what we're missing.  :pizza:

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 24, 2012, 08:51:11 PM
Glad you liked the crust.  Sorry to hear about the sauce.  It is true to type, fwiw.  I don't think of it as fennel heavy, but my wife does.  Try cutting back on it.  That's what I do for her.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on February 26, 2012, 11:56:53 PM
pythonic,

It was 50:30:20 mozza:white cheddar:provolone. I think Pete used it for a specific pizza clone (PJ perhaps?);but I use it on all of my pizzas.  Since I started making pizzas, cheese was the main thing limiting the quality...  I used many different brands of mozza from all different price points, and it always turned out really SUCKY.  the blend is awesome though, and i find that it's still awesome regardless of what brand/price of cheese you use.  I actually bought a giant brick of private label "pizza mozza" recently, and when it's blended it works just the same as the Saputo Mozzarellissima that costs 2x the price!!!  :chef:   :pizza:

I finally got around in trying this cheese blend and it was excellent!  Before I would just mix Mozz and white cheddar but the provolone really enhances it big time.  This is my new go to cheese blend for sure.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pete-zza on February 27, 2012, 01:12:55 PM
CDNpielover and pythonic,

I used the 50/30/20 cheese blend to make a Greek style pizza, as discussed in Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg27482.html#msg27482.

Peter
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on March 03, 2012, 07:23:17 PM
made this again last night.  toppings were sausage (recipe given earlier in thread), onions, and canned mushrooms.  (I have a soft spot in my heart for canned mushrooms on pizza hahah!).  It was delicious, although I have a nasty head cold so I really couldn't taste it that well haha.  Unfortunately I didn't get any pics.  I changed up the bake method a bit this time, since last time the crust didn't turn out as browned/crispy as I would have wanted.  So I put the stone on the bottom rack and preheated for 1 hour at 450, then I turned the oven to 500 just as I put the pizza in.  Cooked for 10 or 12 minutes, and it turned out great.  The bottom of the crust was quite crispy and had a noticeable crunch, and although i'm not sure if that's how Pizza Factory did it or not, I liked it much more than my last attempt!   :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on March 03, 2012, 11:03:50 PM
Sounds great.  Yes, you definitely want that crunch.  You nailed it.  And your method is clever: I used to do the same thing but in reverse: preheat to 500 then turn it down to bake at 450.  (Different stone position.) Now I am a firm believer in the two-stone method--one high, one low--and move the pies accordingly (bottom for more crust browning, top for more cheese browning).  You may want to get a similar setup?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vr6Dad on March 07, 2012, 09:06:20 PM
Hi Garvey (and everyone else),

I made another 3 pizzas with the dough recipe last week. I accidentally left the dough out on the counter after kneading for about 30-45 minutes, before putting it in the fridge. I also used the dough within 48 hours instead of 72 hours. My results were that the crust was a little thicker than last time, and didn't have that "beer" smell or flavor that it did the first time. It browned and crisped just fine, but it was just a little thicker than we wanted.

I used a sweet sauce formulation that my family likes and grated some fresh mozz and non-smoked provolone. I also used the sausage recipe in this thread, and used Boar's Head brand pepperoni. I always use a cast iron pizza pan and used a stone above it.

The pizzas turned out fantastic; however, from now on I'll try to get that 72 hour fridge rise time and not let it sit on the counter prior to the fridge rise.

I really like the dough and will make it my go-to. For this weekend's pizzas I am going to add in a little white cheddar.

Thanks again for this thread. :pizza:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on March 07, 2012, 09:47:26 PM
vr6Dad: sounds like you've experienced exactly what I've experienced with this dough.  It makes a fine and good crust at 48 hrs but is too thick.  Still has too much rise in it.  It starts to really mature properly at 72 hrs and is still great at 96.  I think that's the ideal window.   

Sausage turn out ok?  I had worked out four different formulations, and this was the one that nailed Pizza Factory's flavor profile.  But all four were great.  I can post those if you want some ideas for tinkering.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on March 08, 2012, 11:17:53 AM
Hi Garvey (and everyone else),

I made another 3 pizzas with the dough recipe last week. I accidentally left the dough out on the counter after kneading for about 30-45 minutes, before putting it in the fridge. I also used the dough within 48 hours instead of 72 hours. My results were that the crust was a little thicker than last time, and didn't have that "beer" smell or flavor that it did the first time. It browned and crisped just fine, but it was just a little thicker than we wanted.

I used a sweet sauce formulation that my family likes and grated some fresh mozz and non-smoked provolone. I also used the sausage recipe in this thread, and used Boar's Head brand pepperoni. I always use a cast iron pizza pan and used a stone above it.

The pizzas turned out fantastic; however, from now on I'll try to get that 72 hour fridge rise time and not let it sit on the counter prior to the fridge rise.

I really like the dough and will make it my go-to. For this weekend's pizzas I am going to add in a little white cheddar.

Thanks again for this thread. :pizza:


Try to use the boars head white cheddar if you can.  Ive had great success with it.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on March 08, 2012, 11:22:17 AM
vr6dad, it is ESSENTIAL that you post pics of the pies you make this weekend  >:D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on March 17, 2012, 09:53:38 PM
sausage, canned shrooms (yum), and some cooked ground hamburger left over from last night (I hate wasting food LOL).  not a fan of the ground hamburger on this pie, it kinda "takes over" the taste.  too bad I had to put it on there haha. 

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vr6Dad on March 18, 2012, 10:59:55 AM
Sausage turn out ok?  I had worked out four different formulations, and this was the one that nailed Pizza Factory's flavor profile.  But all four were great.  I can post those if you want some ideas for tinkering.

The sausage was pretty good and not overwhelming - which is what you want (IMO) from a pizza sausage. I have some left in the freezer, so I'll thaw it as needed.

I haven't gotten around to making any more pizzas lately, due to work and other assorted things. I'm going to fire up the mixer today for another batch of dough to use later this week.  :pizza:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on March 18, 2012, 02:14:07 PM
where are the pics of this pizza????   ;D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vr6Dad on March 21, 2012, 12:38:45 PM
where are the pics of this pizza????   ;D
Tonight.  :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vr6Dad on March 22, 2012, 01:20:15 PM
(http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu227/vr6Cop/IMG_2190.jpg)

(http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu227/vr6Cop/IMG_2190.jpg)


I want to publicly thank Garvey again for this dough recipe.  :chef:

You were right, 72 hours is perfect for the dough. It came out perfectly thin and crispy and is exactly what I've been looking for. My wife told me that after these years of trying different doughs, sauces, etc, that this dough was her favorite and she asked me to stop tinkering with it. She said that overall this pizza was her favorite that I've made in a long time.

I use a different crushed tomato base sauce which is a hit with my wife and kids, who are my target audience.

For cheese I mixed 8oz fresh mozz that I grated (more like crumbled), ~4oz non-smoked provolone, ~4oz white cheddar that I split between 2 pizzas. The 3rd pie got the Kroger "pizza blend." My wife loved the fresh blend.

I didn't use any toppings other than cheese on one pizza, and just used ham on the others. I had forgotten to thaw my home made sausage, and my beloved pepperoni has been giving me heartburn.

I placed my pizza stone on the top rack and let it heat with the oven to 450. The first pie was on my preheated Lodge cast iron pizza pan, the second was on a cheap perforated pan and the third was on a screen. All 3 had similar crust texture, which was crispy but not cracker-ish.

Thanks again to Garvey and the other people that make this such a great forum.  :chef:

Edit - having trouble posting links to the pics.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on March 22, 2012, 11:17:01 PM
looks awesome!!!   although kinda skimpy on the cheese!   :chef: :chef: :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on March 25, 2012, 11:14:11 PM
Looks great, Adrian!  Glad you like it!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Malanga on April 07, 2012, 10:22:23 AM
This thread rocks!  After having learned of Chicago thin crust only a few weeks ago, I was intrigued immediately.  As a New Yorker, we tend to get a bit geocentric about what we feel is "real" pizza (and I'm sure this allegiance for the home team is a stance we have all assumed at some point, regardless of region).  But when I first saw a pic of Chicago thin, the doors of my closed-mind regarding pizza were blown off!  "This looks legit!"

Anyhow, one question:  is it necessary to roll out the dough (with some kind of rolling device) before baking these bad boys?  From the searches I've done on recipes, it seems as if it is a necessary step to get as close to the real thing as possible.  Having never tried this style of pizza before, I won't know how close I'm getting to the real McCoy until I get my arse out to the Windy City and go on a pizza tour of some sorts.  

Just want to say again... this thread is awesome; this site is awesome.  I love the dedication to the art that you all exude.

Peace.  
Malanga
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on April 07, 2012, 11:19:56 AM
holy crap Malanga, if you just heard about chicago thin, you've been missing out!!!!!!    :-D  yes, you need to roll out the dough.  most shops use a sheeter, but you can get the same result using a rolling pin!  it took me many tries before I started getting reasonable circle shapes, but i find that it's way easier if you start with a round dough ball.  try and proof your dough in a bowl or something. 

and, make sure you post pictures of your results here!!!   :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Malanga on April 07, 2012, 12:49:59 PM
Word up!  Thanks for the quick reply.  I'm drooling buckets looking at the pics you guys have been posting.  I'll be sure to post anything I come up with.  Gonna trow together some dough today.  I'm still scaleless (but not for long) but I'll try by volume and see what happens for now. 

Working on the stone is preferable for CTC? 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on April 07, 2012, 09:56:31 PM
Sausage, shrooms, black olives, and banana peppers (and 3 additional hot peppers of some kind)

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: SinoChef on April 08, 2012, 04:34:38 AM
Quote
My wife told me that after these years of trying different doughs, sauces, etc, that this dough was her favorite and she asked me to stop tinkering with it.

Is that possible?  ;D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 08, 2012, 05:41:27 PM
CDNpielover, that is a great looking pie!  I would eat that in a heartbeat.  I hope it tasted as good as it looked.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Malanga on April 09, 2012, 11:25:14 AM
WOW that pie looks gangbusters CDNpielover!  I'm not even hungry and I'm salivating (... ok, now I'm hungry).  I'd pay for that pie!  And as I'm saying this, there is a "pizzeria" about 230 feet that I can see from my apartment window that I will go nowhere near after trying their "pizza."  Such a tease...  Sorry for the rant.  You're pics got me a bit emotional me thinks.  Great work!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vr6Dad on April 10, 2012, 11:10:55 PM
CDN - thanks for the inspiration on the peppers. I forgot how much I love peppers on pizza, so I'll be working on this again.

Malanga, just go with it.  ;) This really is a good pizza, and as much as I LOVE the deep dish Chicago pizza, now that I've started making the thin crusts, I haven't made a deep dish in over a year. And Garvey's dough recipe is great.  :chef:  :pizza:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on April 24, 2012, 09:46:42 AM
Thanks for posting this recipe.  It really reminds me of a place in Elmhurst I ate at in the early 80's called Two Brothers.  Looks very similar and when they delivered it was bagged back then as well.   The crust as I remember it was somewhere in between a full cracker crust and New York type crust in that it was slightly crackery but not layered. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 24, 2012, 10:33:45 PM
Yep, mykall, that sounds like a standard Chicago thin.  Crackery on the bottom and a lil doughy on top.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on April 25, 2012, 09:51:45 AM
This thread has inspired me to try a Chi thin for my next pie.  I've been in Pizza making hiatus for awhile now because of time and frustration with conquering Ny/Neo pies not to mention having to coordinate the cold rise with my schedule.  I actually forgot about cross cut thin and just how good they were.   Not sure I've got all the ingredients for your sauce but I might try a variant of it.  One question though is do you generally use a roller on this type pie dough?  I know that's a cardinal sin on a Neopolitan/Ny but I don't see how else you could get it ruler flat like that.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 25, 2012, 10:18:31 AM
Yes, I roll the dough.  If I could only find a tabletop sheeter for cheap...

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on April 25, 2012, 04:30:06 PM
I must admit that until I went back and re-read the older posts I had a real question about basing any sauce on paste.   I could imaging using a teaspoon here or there once in a while but my past is full of attempts to use paste as a base with disastrous results.   Then I saw where Garvey specifically mentions the need to use Contadina as opposed to Hunts or any other brand.  I believe it was Hunts and one or two others that turned me off paste for good about 8-10 years ago, but I don't believe I ever used Contadina.   Hunts and the other brands I used appeared orange as opposed to red and IMHO were nothing more than concentrated poor tomatoes.   I'm going to pick up a can of Contis the way home tonight in prep for this week end.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 25, 2012, 07:47:25 PM
Paste is what the original Pizza Factory actually used, which is what this recipe is a clone of.  Contadina plus all the added herbs and spices should yield a maroon sauce. (FWIW, I think many Southside thin crust joints used paste as the base.  It has a rich flavor, is very thick, is compact for storage, etc.) It is precisely the paste base in Pizza Factory sauce that allows/requires the use of such heavy herbage.

All that being said, if you have a different sauce recipe you prefer, go for it.  But if you stick with paste, try to adhere to the mass quantities of herbs.  Otherwise, it won't come out right.

The real kicker, though, is finding good sausage for this pizza.  Hopefully, you have a source.  Otherwise, it really isn't worth it to make any variety of Chicago pizza, IMO. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on April 26, 2012, 09:51:36 AM
I think you're correct about paste base in many local favorite pizzerias throughout the country not just in the Chi burbs.  I have no problem with it and if done right can really work with a thin crust pie, just was making the point that I have not had much success and most probably because of herbage and the choice of paste and there is a difference like anything else.  I'm going to follow your sauce recipe except for 1 or two items like fennel because I know what it tastes like and that I specifically don't remember in the sauce at Two Brother's (which I Googled and it's still around).  Anyway I went 0-2 last night on Contadina on the way home.  Tonight a different route home and two different grocery stores to try again. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on April 26, 2012, 01:14:54 PM
I will second the Contadina paste...I've used it and it is good. Prefer it over the other brands.In the early seventies all the joints I worked at in the burbs used puree an water...good stuff,think I might revisit good ole puree soon on a "thin".

Bob
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on April 26, 2012, 01:16:15 PM
we don't get contadina here in canada, but I made garvey's sauce using Hunt's, and I thought it turned out just fine.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on April 27, 2012, 09:54:26 AM
.In the early seventies all the joints I worked at in the burbs used puree an water...good stuff,think I might revisit good ole puree soon on a "thin".

Bob

Interesting that they used water with puree because I thought that puree was already watered down paste.  So I'm thinking that if they used puree w/o water it would thicken while in the oven to what I remember of Chi-pies from the burbs.    BTW found Conti last night on the way home at Farm Fresh and scored two cans.   The Chi-pie is on for this weekend, even borrowed a little fennel seed so my first will be faithful to Garvey's recipe. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 27, 2012, 10:18:12 AM
Some purees are heavier (denser) than others.  I'm not sure if any moisture cooks out of the sauce when baking the pizza.  A paste base, however, is good for sucking up extra moisture from the sausage and veggies when the pizza cooks.  Paste can handle that without making the pie soggy.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on April 27, 2012, 10:33:29 AM
I was looking at Garvey's pie again and he pretty much takes the sauce to the edge of the pie.  My memory of Two Brother's and Barone's of Geln Ellyn was that there was a nice 3/4" bare rim on the pies.  This meant that in the wonderful dynamics of a cross cut pizza that all but the center squares had a rim on them.  And those wonderful 4 triangle pieces were sometimes mostly crust with a little sauce and sometimes a little cheese and sauce depending on how the pie was cut but always crispy.  No conventionally cut pizza can ever match this.  While I respect all forms of pie I admit that there is something very special about a thin cross-cut Chi-pie. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 27, 2012, 11:07:21 AM
I am a rim minimalist, but there is a definite rim.  The pictures I've posted may not show that.  My buddy Dave, co-creator of this recipe, leaves a bigger rim.  He likes the margin of error for slinging the pie around in the oven, etc., and gets annoyed with me when I assemble them more to my liking.

Quote
And those wonderful 4 triangle pieces were sometimes mostly crust with a little sauce and sometimes a little cheese and sauce depending on how the pie was cut but always crispy.

Yes!  They were always the first grabbed.  Bonus if a little nub of sausage was on one.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vcb on April 27, 2012, 11:08:56 AM
I am a rim minimalist, but there is a definite rim.  The pictures I've posted may not show that.  My buddy Dave, co-creator of this recipe, leaves a bigger rim.  He likes the margin of error for slinging the pie around in the oven, etc., and gets annoyed with me when I assemble them more to my liking.

Yes!  They were always the first grabbed.  Bonus if a little nub of sausage was on one.

Say "rim minimalist" five times fast!  :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on April 27, 2012, 11:09:16 AM
rim width definitely varies   ;D  some even have no rim at all.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on April 27, 2012, 04:07:48 PM

Yes!  They were always the first grabbed.  Bonus if a little nub of sausage was on one.

I was always very hungry and left those for later.   I'd attack with one of the rounded squares and then maybe a full rimless square, cheese was usually thicker towards the cener.  Then later when diminishing returns set in I'd hit a triangle.  It was always illegal to just pull a center square out without starting on the outside.  ;D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on April 27, 2012, 08:33:35 PM
I have a long, long list of pizza formulations that we've seen from some great pizzamakers here on this website (i.e., my "bucket list").  I recently had the opportunity to check off one and dive into Garvey's great Chicago thin crust pizza that has been very favorably reviewed here lately.  After living in the Chicago area for many years, I thought that I knew all the great pizza places there, but never heard of the Pizza Factory, so I recently put the formulation together that is reflected in Reply #2 above  . . . with one exception.  I emptied my bag of KAAP flour and that only amounted to 162 grams.  So I then decided to add the remainder of the 212 grams needed for the 374 gram recipe by using my King Arthur's Bread Flour (KABF).  That is usually not a problem for me as I have used bread flour in the past for some very successful Chicago style thin crust pizzas (but AP is a must for deep dish).  Many Chicago area pizzas, esp. in the early days, often only used bread flour as their primary flour.

As is my practice, I mixed everything in a bowl with a wooden spoon and by hand, and I don't go overboard with the mixing and kneading.  I wasn't certain what kind of oil to use, so I did 50% olive oil and 50% vegetable oil.  Oh, and as is also my practice, I used ADY foamed up for 10 minutes in a little bit of 105 degree F water (its just a personal thing with me and IDY -- too many failures with IDY).  The dough ball came together nicely and I put the covered bowl into a 90 degree oven for about an hour, punching down twice, then into a ziplock bag and into the refrigerator for the retardation of the dough.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on April 27, 2012, 08:36:09 PM
Seventy-two hours later I took the dough out of the refrigerator and left it on the counter for approx. 2 hours.  Thereafter I cut the dough in half -- which came to 307 grams -- and I proceeded to make the first of two pizzas.  I followed Garvey's suggestions pretty well, but like Sinatra, I just have to do some things my way.  For instance, my pizza stone collects dust as I have not found it advantageous to use in the light of my great GE Profile electric oven (with no apparent heating elements). Further, I am a big, big, fan of using my great 14" anodized PSTK coated, non-perforated cutter pan from pizzatools.com.  I've found that baking a pizza with it -- if done right -- is just like baking a pizza in those good old-fashioned stationary or revolving deck ovens (not the disreputed conveyor ovens).

For pizza No. 1, I did not par bake the crust, but simply rolled it out on a slightly floured countertop.  It rolled out nicely and easily.  I then rolled it out onto my rolling pin and onto a slightly oiled (with some previous pinches of corn meal) pan and dressed it up in preparation for the oven event.  I did not use the suggested sauce and used another sauce instead.  But I added some fennel seed and some special ground fennel seed, and while I am conservative on the amount of additives to the sauce and pizza, the fennel made a big difference (in a positive way).  I of course used a top quality Italian deli sausage that was put on in small pieces totally uncooked like 90-some percent of all Chicago area (and many other areas, too) pizzerias.  I added about 6 oz of mozzarella and an oz or two of cheddar for flavor and color.  On top of all that I added 3 or 4 pinches of dry oregano and basil and a sprinkle or two of garlic powder.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on April 27, 2012, 08:36:49 PM
And into the oven on a LOW rack at 450 degrees F (previously warmed up to 500 degrees) I put the prized pizza.  I strongly disagree with use of a high rack for baking such a pizza and will leave it at that.  The pizza baked for around 13 to 15 minutes.  Since I like a little browned topping on the pizza, I put my oven's "convection" (blown hot air) on for the last couple of minutes to get the desired color on top of the pizza.  Those without a convection feature can accomplish the very same thing by putting the pizza on the top or high rack level for a couple of minutes at the end of the bake cycle.

Edit:  Note how low I have the pizza in the oven.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on April 27, 2012, 08:38:52 PM

The pizza among the 3 or us that devoured it in just a few minutes was . . . excellent.  It reminded us all of the taste of true "southside Chicago thin crust pizza."  The edges were crispy and towards the center it got to be less so, but still tender and tasty . . . just like so many Chicago thin crust pizzas.  I cut the pizza in the only way any decent Chicago pizza aficionado would do . . . and that is in "squares."  Many on this site refer to that as "tavern cut" or "party cut" but I never heard those words or terms when I grew up in Chicago.  It just was the normal Chicago way of cutting up the pizza (except for the Chesdan "strip" style of cut).

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on April 27, 2012, 08:40:11 PM
Here are the spices that I used on the pizza.  I try not to overdo any of them.  The fennel seeds must be crushed before adding them to release their special flavor enhancement abilities.  I just crust them with a big spoon on top of the countertop and pinch them afterwards onto the pizza.  Putting them out without so crushing the seeds will not extract their special flavor potential in my opinion.  Of course, the ground Penzey Indian fennel does wonders also for the wonderful Italian fennel flavoring.  

I will later report on my experience with pizza No. 2 because -- as Garvey said: " . . . who in their right mind would make only one pizza?"  I did some things just a little different with the second pizza and there were some very good things about doing so.

                                                                                                --BTB         ;D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 28, 2012, 12:02:50 AM
Nobody writes a better "pizza travelogue" than you do, BTB! 

Love the pic of the old school Durkee jar.  Brought back memories. 

The pizza looked great, too.  And you've got your local conditions down pat with the PTSK pan, convection blast, etc.  That is a huge part of making pizza--being able to adjust to different conditions and so forth.  When someone knows their way around the pizza process, they can coax a great pie out of just about any oven or setup.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on April 28, 2012, 01:28:51 PM
The dough ball for pizza No. 2 weighed in at a little less at 293 ounces so I couldn't fill in a full 14" pizza in my cutter pan, but it was still plenty.  Everything went together similar to pizza No. 1 above, but I did two things differently with it.  First I decided to par bake the crust, not docked, at 500 degrees F on the bottom oven rack for approx. 3 minutes.  It puffed up a little after the par bake, so I tried to depress the dough a bit with a fork somewhat.  I then dressed the pizza similar to the first one, but baked it on the very bottom oven rack (one of eight rack levels in my oven) at 500 degrees F, which is the second difference from cooking the first pizza at 450 degrees F.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on April 28, 2012, 01:29:40 PM
Note again that the pizza is baking on the very LOWEST level in my oven.  Those with electric ovens that have visible heating elements would have to raise the level 2 to 3 inches above the elements and cook the pizza at that level.  Trial and error, I'm afraid is necessary then.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on April 28, 2012, 01:31:22 PM
This is the slightly browned coloring that me and mine love in a baked Chicago thin crust pizza.  A pizza with just a slight melt of the pizza cheese is NOT popular among my pizza fans.  This version was much crispier than the first one and has a lot going for it.  And of course the only logical, sensible, proper, just and righteous way to cut such a pizza is the NORMAL way that God intended . . . . . . in SQUARES! ! !  Is there another way?    :-D    :-D    ???    >:D

A great pizza recipe that many will want to work with.

                                                                 --BTB                    :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on April 28, 2012, 01:43:59 PM
Really nice pie BTB, especially that pic at the top of #113.  Never thought of mixing cheese the way you did in what looks like a little cheddar.  The finished product and the cheese specifically look phenomenal.  In the world of pizza and even my own experience on this board and from making what would be considered traditional NY or Neo pies the rules tell you that you use only Mozz or buffalo mozz on the pie.  And with all due respect while NY and especially Neapolitan pies have that stipple burnt crust from an 800deg oven, aside from that it seems that the cheese and sauce are all too often an after thought.  This is why I believe that Garvey stated in a previous post something to the effect that after the dough recipe in specifics there is little mention of the sauce or the cheese.   Again, while I respect all pies and will make many in the coming years it is exactly this type of blending that has produced the UNIQUE kinds of taste that most of us remember from any of a number of existing or expired neighborhood pizzerias.   A true Neapolitan would frown upon these pies but many have cultured tastes that none of us could forget.   How else could bread,sauce and cheese taste so different?   
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on April 28, 2012, 07:24:14 PM
Another hit BTB......great looking Chicago thin !!

Bob
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on April 29, 2012, 11:19:25 AM
Thanks, Bob.  I know you are a true Chicago pizza lover like me.

BTW, I've been using one of Sargento's new shredded cheeses for thin crust pizzas recently.  Most of the available shredded pizza cheese is low moisture, part skimmed (which is pretty good), but Sargento recently came out with their new "Artisan Blends" and one of them was shredded Whole Milk Mozzarella.  I've been really happy with it and will again use it for as long as it may be available.  It is very flavorful and tasty for a Mozzarella, which is not known to be that flavorful.  Publix had it on a "buy one get one free" sale last week.

Besides mozzarella, I like to do a blend with some other cheeses from time to time, like the little bit of cheddar I did with Garvey's pizza here.  Or I often add a little shredded Provolone or even the hard to find Scamorza, which is really good.  One pizza enthusiast believes Scamorza to be the best pizza cheese out there.  See http://blog.jakeparrillo.com/2011/03/scamorza-cheese-best-pizza-cheese.html#!/2011/03/scamorza-cheese-best-pizza-cheese.html   (http://blog.jakeparrillo.com/2011/03/scamorza-cheese-best-pizza-cheese.html#!/2011/03/scamorza-cheese-best-pizza-cheese.html) .  My local Italian deli here in Florida (Mazzaro's at http://www.mazzarosmarket.com/InsideOurStore/CheeseRoom/tabid/77/Default.aspx (http://www.mazzarosmarket.com/InsideOurStore/CheeseRoom/tabid/77/Default.aspx))  makes their Scamorza in house, but it, too, is not cheap.  It really is a great tasting cheese to use on pizzas, at least in some part.  Many pizzerias on the southside of Chicago, it's south suburbs, and in the Calumet region especially used Scamorza cheese on their pizzas.  Check it out.

On pizza No. 2 above, I remembered to put some pinches of Parmigiano-Reggiano prior to baking, but forgot to do so for pizza No. 1.  But adding it on afterwards before eating the pizza still made for a very tasty pizza.

I'm keeping Garvey's great recipe on my "bucket list" as I plan to do some more development with it.

                                                                                           --BTB         :P
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on April 29, 2012, 08:40:23 PM
Not too good but hey I'll get better.  I at least know what the factory's sauce tasted like or at least minus the marjoram.  I didn't have any so I subbed in more Italian seasoning which has marjoram in it. 
Despite how this looks it actually tasted pretty good.  I must admit I was not totally faithful to the recipe as I used about 222g of KABF and made up the difference with AP.  The reason was that that bag has been sitting on my shelf for quite some time and I also wanted a little more snap crackety in my dough.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on April 29, 2012, 08:42:41 PM
I cooked this right on the stone at the bottom of the oven, no pan.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on April 29, 2012, 08:45:21 PM
Gotta' love the triangles!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 29, 2012, 09:30:07 PM
mykall:

Quote
"Despite how this looks..."?

Whatchu talkin' about--it looks delicious.  I'd eat that any day of the week.  Nice going.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on April 29, 2012, 11:51:22 PM
BTB, 

Great looking pizza there.  I noticed your blurb about the sargento mozzarella.  When I first started my pizza making adventures I was using that.  Have you tried the Borden whole milk mozzarella yet?  I find it tastes even better.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on April 30, 2012, 07:27:57 AM
mykall, that's a great looking pizza.  Very nice job.  When I return to my summer home where I have an electric oven with visible heating elements, I'll have to bring along my pizza stone and use it on a low rack along with my cutter pan.

Nate, I don't recall seeing Borden's cheese at the grocery stores. I'll be on the lookout for it and try some.  Thanks for the tip.  I go in cycles on ingredients and right now I prefer the Whole Milk Mozzarella (but not fresh).  And while I added some sharp cheddar in the above pizzas, another great option is to add instead some white, mild (not sharp) Vermont or Canadian cheddar, which I sometimes have problems finding except in the specialty deli's, altho I think Fresh Market has it.

This pizzamaking can be so rewarding and fun when we freely trade our thoughts, ideas and opinions on all of this.

                                                                                --BTB                    :D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on April 30, 2012, 10:08:18 AM
I was actually very disappointed in two of my grocery stores this weekend in that the selection of cheese was not what I've remembered in the past.  I could not find that square of Poll-O or Sorrento whole milk or any whole milk for that matter. Farm Fresh usually carries these but this weekend there was none.   I've never seen that version of Sargento that BTB posted but I'll be sure next time to look more carefully.  I used Kraft Italian 5 cheese mix on this pie but honestly I would not use it again.  I also mixed in a little cheddar.  I'm also going to go back to the workshop and reformulate the sauce closer to what I remember from my Chi-pies from the burbs.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: dwighttsharpe on April 30, 2012, 02:10:15 PM
Garvey, after rolling out, is your dough docked/pricked?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 30, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
dwighttsharpe,

No need to dock it. I have experimented with docking but this recipe is not designed with docking in mind.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: dwighttsharpe on April 30, 2012, 03:08:49 PM
dwighttsharpe,

No need to dock it. I have experimented with docking but this recipe is not designed with docking in mind.

Cheers,
Garvey

Thanks.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on April 30, 2012, 06:57:42 PM
dwighttsharpe,

No need to dock it. I have experimented with docking but this recipe is not designed with docking in mind.

Cheers,
Garvey

FWIW I didn't dock mine either.       
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on April 30, 2012, 07:45:44 PM
mykall, interesting pantry of tomato supplies.  Among my favorites is the 6 in 1's, of course.  Trader Joe's is known to have some great products, too.  Enrico's pizza sauce (pic below) is the best pre-made pizza sauce on the market IMHO and the only one that I will use.  I think I've tried them all, but dislike all except that one brand.  A relatively "mild" but very tasty sauce that one can spice up as they like.

At my local Publix store this afternoon, saw some of the cheeses you mentioned.

                                                                                 --BTB
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on April 30, 2012, 09:21:44 PM
Enrico's pizza sauce (pic below) is the best pre-made pizza sauce on the market IMHO and the only one that I will use.  I think I've tried them all, but dislike all except that one brand.  A relatively "mild" but very tasty sauce that one can spice up as they like.

At my local Publix store this afternoon, saw some of the cheeses you mentioned.

                                                                                 --BTB

BTB,

Thanks for reminding me about the Enrico's.  You're not the only person who likes it so I'm going to shoot for some on the way home from work tomorrow.  I was able to pick up a square of the Sorrento tonight at Harris Teeter-I had no luck with any whole milk yesterday and I used to see Polly-O squares all the time.  I guess it's only when you're looking for something that it's hard to find.  Also I did see your Artisan Sargento and they had 5 varieties but no mozzi.  I'll try again tomorrow at a different store.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on May 01, 2012, 09:20:43 AM
I only saw the Artisan Sargento Whole Milk shredded mozzarella for the first time about two weeks ago, so I think it is pretty new and the stores may just be starting to put them into inventory.  It's not too bad to shred up some Polly-O or Sorrento, tho.  I've previous tried some of the other Artisan Sargento cheeses and am very favorably impressed with them.                         

Encourage you to try the Enrico's for thin crust sauce and add some things to reflect your likes and tastes.  I've generally used 6 in 1's undrained but spiced up a bit for thin crusts -- and I still think 6 in 1 is great -- but right now I'm on an Enrico's kick and think its excellent.  (I know I'll get a "boo" or two from many out there, but different strokes . . . )  LOL

                                                                                      --BTB              :)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on May 05, 2012, 04:39:54 PM
Found it BTB.  Knew I'd seen it somewhere and Fresh Market was the place.  I also found a house brand of whole milk shredded in the package I'm going to give a try.  Never know...sometimes house brands surprise you.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on May 05, 2012, 05:01:40 PM
I always shred my own cheese.  Pre-shredded cheese is coated in cellulose, which adversely affects the texture of the melted cheese.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on May 05, 2012, 07:34:10 PM
I always shred my own cheese.  Pre-shredded cheese is coated in cellulose, which adversely affects the texture of the melted cheese.

That I did *not* know.   However IIRC I have used some pre-shredded that were actually better than a block I shredded myself.  This
also makes me wonder if the Artisans from Sargento have cellulose since they're supposed to be "high end".
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on May 05, 2012, 07:38:06 PM
all pre-shredded cheeses are coated with cellulose, as it prevents sticking.  if they didn't add that, the cheese would just form into big messy clump of cheese.

with respect to sargento artisan blends, here is what they say on their website (http://www.sargento.com/our-company/faq/):

"Q: Ingredients listed on the shredded cheese packages include powdered cellulose, calcium carbonate and potato starch. What are those?

A: Powdered cellulose is a white, odorless, tasteless, totally natural powder made from cellulose, a naturally occurring component of most plants. It wonít absorb moisture because of its fibrous, non-gel structure. When added to shredded cheese, cellulose prevents the cheese from sticking together. Calcium carbonate and potato starch are also natural ingredients. They pass through your body as any food does. Theyíre not harmful.

Sargento sprinkles very small amounts of these anti-caking agents on all varieties of our shredded cheeses, which helps ensure our cheese is easier for consumers to use."
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on May 05, 2012, 07:45:15 PM
I might also add that pre-shredded cheese is more expensive, less flavorful, melts poorly, and doesn't have as long of a shelf life.  I just can't justify using it, particularily since it only takes me 1 minute to shred it by hand - and I use about 10 ounces of cheese on my pizzas LOL.  It takes  even less time if you cube with a knife or use a food processor!

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mykall on May 05, 2012, 07:52:37 PM
True but sometimes pre-shredded is easier to come by and divides easier for freezing.  I have terrible trouble timing my pies WRT work schedule etc.  Speaking of "melted texture" what is the diff you experience between pre and your own shredding?  In other words what is the difference when you bite into the pie?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chi-town Gal on August 29, 2012, 08:25:24 AM
Garvey:

Wow!  Now THAT is a REAL Chicago pizza!  I was thrilled to see that you put the cheese on LAST rather than on first with the ingredients sitting on top of the cheese.  I don't know where that idea came from!  I was also glad to see you cut your pizza in squares!  YEAH!!  Chicago rules!  I don't think most people realize that the kind of pizza you make is the typical pizza you'll find in neighborhood pizza joints.  The famous deep dish Chicago style pizza is NOT what most Chicagoans prefer.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a deep dish now and again, but when I have the cravin for a real pizza, the thin pizza has no rival! 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: OTRChef on August 29, 2012, 01:33:13 PM
I always shred my own cheese.  Pre-shredded cheese is coated in cellulose, which adversely affects the texture of the melted cheese.

Not exactly true. If cellulose alone was used as the anticaking treatment, your observations would be correct. However the addition of potato starch reduces FO (free oil) formation making the packaged shredded cheese as good as fresh shredded cheese, and maybe slightly better...because at the high temperatures pizzas are cooked at, the melting is more uniform and the height is ever so slighly higher.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on December 17, 2012, 12:31:37 PM
Garvey,

Finally got around to trying the Kenji sausage recipe in this thread.  It was awesome.  My wife who prefers pepperoni was even raving about it.  Thanks so much for that link.  I see you add cheap wine to yours; what does that add to it?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on December 27, 2012, 12:53:07 PM
Hey Pythonic--sorry for the slow response.  I was on Maui with the family for the past couple weeks.  (Tough job, but somebody's gotta do it.)

Yes, the Kenji recipe is great.  After many years of my own disappointing trials and many errors, that recipe explains the technique that eluded me.  I tried the Kenji style straight up, tasted its awesomeness, but sensed that it was really close, but not all the way.

So I made four different variations, based on commenters in the two sausage threads on Serious Eats (the recipe page itself and the Food Lab write up, too).  There was an original Kenji, one from someone here whose name escapes me at the moment, a composite recipe made up of averages, and then one where I basically did the Kenji but with a white wine addition. There are a couple reasons for that.  The main reason is that my homeboys and I remember a faint wine taste in the original Pizza Factory.  We once thought the origin was in the sauce, but my buddy Dave debunked that, since he had worked there and used to make the sauce and said it was only paste, water, and the secret blend of herbs (premixed by Joe, the owner, and put in a giant bucket).   

Then I took all four variants to a get together of seven people who all were Pizza Factory fanatics from the olden days.  Over the course of a long weekend, we made maybe 15 or 20 pizzas (haha--no kidding) and tried all the variants.  Within one bite of the white wine version, everyone universally declared, "Oh, yeah, THAT is pizza factory." So that is the default recipe now.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on December 27, 2012, 02:17:17 PM
Garvy,
Is post #7 the recipe I should use for the sausage? http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17662.msg171285.html#msg171285

Also, have you come up with a favored brand of mozz to shred....you ever tried Sorrento(not Sargento) yet? Just recently got my hands on some Scarmorza and thought I'd try blending it with Sorrento. Thanks.
Bob
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on December 28, 2012, 08:08:20 PM
Garvey,

I am just using ground pork so should I add the white wine initially when I mix all the other ingredients?  Also, are you putting it raw on your Chicago thin crust pizza?   I have only used it on New York style precooked so I am probably missing out on all the extra grease to enhance the crust.

Nate
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on December 28, 2012, 11:22:04 PM
Bob--yes, that link is the recipe.  And I have used Sorrento before.  Good stuff.  I bought a 5-lb brick of Stella today and will be making this pizza on Monday.  It performed admirably for DD today as well.  Where did you get the scamorza?  How is it?  (I, too, live in NC, and this place is an ingredients wasteland.  We take what we can get, generally.)

Nate--I have used ground pork pretty frequently, too, when I can find at least 80/20 stuff.  The Smithfield in my grocery store has been pretty good for that.  When using ground pork, I mix all the ingredients except the wine and let sit in fridge for 8-24 hrs before kneading it into the final sausage product.  It is at this kneading stage when I add the wine.

And yes, absolutely go raw.  I like to put down maybe a third of the shredded cheese on the pie, then the raw sausage, and finish with the remaining two thirds of the cheese.  That way, the sausage peeks out a little but is anchored down to the pie as well.

Hope it goes well!

Cheers!
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on December 29, 2012, 11:10:33 AM

And yes, absolutely go raw.  I like to put down maybe a third of the shredded cheese on the pie, then the raw sausage, and finish with the remaining two thirds of the cheese.  That way, the sausage peeks out a little but is anchored down to the pie as well.

Hope it goes well!

Cheers!
Garvey
+ 1000 !!   :D


Garvey, Member Gregg sent me the Scarmorza. I've used Stella(Sam's club) and it's great for these pies. Cheap too, like $2.14 a pound at Sam's.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: android on January 05, 2013, 02:44:14 PM
incredible pizza crust recipe, thanks very much for sharing your hard work with us. this dough produced some of the best pizzas I've ever made. my wife and I (mostly I) devoured both pizzas.

made one at 48 hrs in the fridge and the second after 72. both were great, slight edge to the 72. i baked the first one in a perforated 16" pizza pan on a preheated stone on top of a stone at 550 for about 10-12 minutes, which turned out nice, but the second one I made without the stone (same temp and time), and the bottom of the crust was much better developed without using the stone. not saying do it one way or the other, but for my tastes, the pan w/o stone proved the best (IMHO).

thanks again!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on January 07, 2013, 02:41:36 PM
made one at 48 hrs in the fridge and the second after 72. both were great, slight edge to the 72.

Glad you liked it!    :pizza:

There isn't a ton of difference between 48 and 72, but 72 is definitely the "sweet spot" for that dough.  It behaves better for me.  Much more consistent.

Quote
i baked the first one in a perforated 16" pizza pan on a preheated stone on top of a stone at 550 for about 10-12 minutes, which turned out nice, but the second one I made without the stone (same temp and time), and the bottom of the crust was much better developed without using the stone. not saying do it one way or the other, but for my tastes, the pan w/o stone proved the best (IMHO).

One of the things I've learned is that ovens vary greatly.  At the last place I lived, I had to do 550.  Where I live now, 450 is the only way to get the pies to come out right.  And I use a two-stone set-up: one low and one high.  I start low and finish high (crust cooks faster low, toppings cook faster high).  And sometimes, when the oven seems to be humming along beautifully, I can do the whole bake on the bottom stone.  Go figure.

Overall, I think Chicago thin is pretty forgiving in this regard.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Mad_Ernie on February 07, 2013, 07:35:06 PM
I decided to give this recipe a try considering all of the comments it had gotten.  I gave it a spin last weekend.  I made the dough on Saturday exactly per the recipe.  The dough was refrigerated for ~30 hours.  At prep time, I prepared two 14" pizzas.  I had plenty of my own sauce still available so I used that up.  The cheese is my standard 70:15:15 of skim-milk mozzarella, sharp cheddar and provolone.  The first was my gold standard of Italian sausage and mushrooms.  Next time I will try using the sauce recipe that Garvey posted with the dough recipe.  The second pizza was simply a 1/2 cheese, 1/2 tomato + basil (Midwestern Margherita).  Pizzas were cooked directly on a pizzastone heated at 500 degrees for 1 hour.  I used small dusting of semolina on the peel to help with sliding it onto the stone.  The pics below should give you a pretty good idea how it turned out, which is to say, pretty good. ;D

Comments: I like the recipe.  The dough performed well.  It is a little more hydrated than my standard recipe of 47-48% and it contains A LOT more oil than my typical Midwestern thin crust.  When I first took the dough out of the containers from the refrigerator, it reminded me a fair amount of my BTB-clone Chicago deep-dish dough because of the amount of oil.  I like the final result.  I would say it is as good as some of the other recipes that I use, but no better.  Definitely a keeper, I think I am going to tweak it a little for my own personal taste by reducing the hydration a couple % and cutting the oil to about 1/2 of what the current recipe calls for.  Thanks Garvey! 
-ME :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 07, 2013, 07:37:30 PM
^^that pie looks awesome -- except you ruined it by cutting it into triangles!!!   :P 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on February 07, 2013, 07:46:06 PM
I decided to give this recipe a try considering all of the comments it had gotten.  I gave it a spin last weekend.  I made the dough on Saturday exactly per the recipe.  The dough was refrigerated for ~30 hours.  At prep time, I prepared two 14" pizzas.  I had plenty of my own sauce still available so I used that up.  The cheese is my standard 70:15:15 of skim-milk mozzarella, sharp cheddar and provolone.  The first was my gold standard of Italian sausage and mushrooms.  Next time I will try using the sauce recipe that Garvey posted with the dough recipe.  The second pizza was simply a 1/2 cheese, 1/2 tomato + basil (Midwestern Margherita).  Pizzas were cooked directly on a pizzastone heated at 500 degrees for 1 hour.  I used small dusting of semolina on the peel to help with sliding it onto the stone.  The pics below should give you a pretty good idea how it turned out, which is to say, pretty good. ;D

Comments: I like the recipe.  The dough performed well.  It is a little more hydrated than my standard recipe of 47-48% and it contains A LOT more oil than my typical Midwestern thin crust.  When I first took the dough out of the containers from the refrigerator, it reminded me a fair amount of my BTB-clone Chicago deep-dish dough because of the amount of oil.  I like the final result.  I would say it is as good as some of the other recipes that I use, but no better.  Definitely a keeper, I think I am going to tweak it a little for my own personal taste by reducing the hydration a couple % and cutting the oil to about 1/2 of what the current recipe calls for.  Thanks Garvey! 
-ME :chef:
Yes sir! That crust looks like it has a lot of action going on ME, really nice. What flour did you use on this one...bottom looks like it had the thin egg shell snap to it, no?
Great pizza...but let's tighten up those cutting skills bro.  ;D j/k
Bob
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 08, 2013, 12:08:50 PM
^^that pie looks awesome -- except you ruined it by cutting it into triangles!!!   :P  

Ha!  Beat me to the punch, CDNpielover!   :D

Glad you liked the recipe, Mad Ernie.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Mad_Ernie on February 08, 2013, 12:38:44 PM
Yes, yes, I know - I performed heresy by cutting the Chicago-thin into slices instead of squares.  ::)

I grew up in Illinois and Wisconsin as a lad, and I probably had as many pizzas cut into squares as I did slices.  I did think about the party/tavern cut before I made the slice decision, but for us as a family, the slices work better, so I fudged, but hey, it's the taste that counts.  :D

Chicago Bob: I used King Arthur all-purpose flour.  Most of my photos came out a little dark so I lightened them up before uploading.

Thanks again, Garvey.

-ME
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Mad_Ernie on February 16, 2013, 10:08:06 AM
Just a side note.

I tried the sauce recipe Garvey posted
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17662.msg171274.html#msg171274

I used it on a Lehmann New York style pizza I made last Sunday, AND I saved the scraps of dough from the Pizza Factory clone dough I made the week before and made a 11" pizza from the scraps.  Both came out well, but I have to say, the sauce was even better than the dough!  It had tomato-sweetness to it, with just enough added flavor from the herbs to kick it up a notch.  This is DEFINITELY a keeper! :chef:

Great job, Garvey, and thanks again!  ;D

-ME
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 17, 2013, 07:40:30 PM
Thanks, Mad Ernie.  I had to eat a LOT of pizza to get that sauce recipe correct. :D

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: spacelooper on March 04, 2013, 08:26:35 AM
Garvey, great crust recipe! I had much success with last night's Thin Crust in regards to all around taste. Loved the taste of the crust, I used Trader Joe's Mozzarella both fresh and Low Moisture Whole which was a winner too.. the sauce was a thrown together sauce using 6in1 as a base (added with the usual suspects) and it was a prefect base for this pizza. I will be experimenting further with this combination for sure....I didn't take a ton of pics, but did snap a few. As usual I could always get my crust a tad more done... but using a Toaster oven is an art of getting it done vs burning the top....smile...

thanks again for the recipe Garvey.....

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: spacelooper on March 04, 2013, 08:30:12 AM
Not sure why it flipped 2 photos upside down?? I tried it twice and it did it both times....weird.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on March 04, 2013, 03:19:55 PM
That's some fine looking pie!  :drool:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: tinroofrusted on March 06, 2013, 11:53:37 AM
Hey Garvey,

I just wanted to let you know that I made your Pizza Factory thin crust pizza last night, complete with the sauce, and it was totally delicious. I just loved it.  The crust was flavorful, and the sauce!  I usually just use crushed tomatoes for sauce, so I wasn't quite ready for the full-fledged flavor assault that you get with this tomato paste based, herb infused sauce.  It was really great. So thanks for working so hard to make an authentic Chicago style recipe. It worked great!  

P.S. I did slice it "party-style".  

Regards,

TinRoof
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on March 06, 2013, 03:53:52 PM
TinRoof,

That is a great looking pie!  I'm glad you found the recipe to your liking.  Chicago thin is a fairly sauce-heavy style, and even within the type, I go very heavy on the sauce.

I see you've got a nice two-stone setup, too.  A man after my own heart!  It's really the only way to go in the home pizza factory, er, kitchen.   :D

BTW, if you're not sausage averse, try making the sausage sometime and put that on there.  In Chicago, sausage is, by far, the most popular topping.  Pepperoni may be king everywhere else, but not in the Chicagoland area.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: tinroofrusted on March 06, 2013, 05:03:21 PM
I definitely want to try your sausage recipe.  Maybe next time I make it. I prefer fresh sausage over pepperoni. (I put a bit of salami on the pizza, which was very tasty; just what I had on hand). 

Here are a couple of questions for you:

1. Do you ever laminate the dough, i.e., fold it over a few times before rolling it out?  Would that be a good way to go on this dough? 
2. Would you bake with or without convection? I didn't use convection because I was worried about the top getting done too soon. But I could have gone with 450 and convection instead of 475 conventional.  The bake time was just about 9 minutes so it was about right without convection I guess. 

I have some friends visiting in a couple of weeks and I think I will try this recipe out on them. 

Regards,

TinRoof
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on March 07, 2013, 08:10:34 AM
TinRoof:

1. No, I never have laminated the dough.  If that's your thing, I don't see how it could hurt and I'd be interested to hear how it went, but this style doesn't really call for that.
2. I have never used a convection oven, but I think that those on this forum say to keep it off.  My best advice is "know thine oven."  If you're normally a convection guy, go with that.  If not, don't.  For me and my oven, I use a two-stone setup and shuttle the pizza from bottom to top as needed.  I start low and finish high, but YMMV.  Every oven is different.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 20, 2013, 02:19:09 PM
Given how many times I've made this recipe and how long it's been my only thin crust recipe I use (outside of the few experiments inspired by this forum), it sounds crazy to admit that I even tinkered with it at all.  But I think I have stumbled upon an innovation that improves upon this already great recipe:
NO KNEAD.

Here's the back story.  Every winter, the old neighborhood gang gets together for a guys weekend at a cabin in the woods.  Pizza Factory is the star of the show.  We all grew up eating it, and the pizzas we make that weekend are always the best.  Well, several months back, I was making 20-something dough balls for the long weekend, which is a taxing feat without a commercial sized mixer.  My little consumer grade KitchenAid would have to do, and it was going to be many batches at full capacity.  I also have a job and family and don't really have an extra day in the middle of the week to just sit around and make dough.  So I thought to myself, "Heck, I'll just not knead it at all and bang out these batches as quickly as possible."  I made five or six batches of four dough balls (300g each) per batch.  I bulk fermented each batch overnight in a ziploc bag and then balled and bagged up all 20-something. 

I really wasn't sure how they'd turn out.  I figured it would all be OK, and the good company and libations would smooth out any minor deficiencies.  Boy, was I wrong.  It was not OK--it was awesome! 

After the requisite 3-day cold ferment, the dough was workable as usual, but it baked up crispier and more wonderful than ever before.  I was hesitant to share these results here on the forum without further testing.  Yeah, 20+ pizzas might be too many for a fluke, but they were all made at the same time.  Since then, I have made it a couple more times, to great results.  I think this will be my new go-to method.  Would love to hear how it works for you.

NO KNEAD PIZZA FACTORY DOUGH

For each 14" pie, you'll need a 300 g dough ball.  Here is the recipe for two (because who in their right mind would make only one pizza? ;-))

AP Flour (100%):
Cool Water (50%):
IDY (.5%):
Salt (1%):
Oil (8%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (160.5%):
Single Ball:
373.83 g  |  13.19 oz | 0.82 lbs
186.92 g  |  6.59 oz | 0.41 lbs
1.87 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.62 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
3.74 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.67 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
29.91 g | 1.05 oz | 0.07 lbs | 6.65 tsp | 2.22 tbsp
3.74 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.94 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
600 g | 21.16 oz | 1.32 lbs | TF = .06875
300 g | 10.58 oz | 0.66 lbs | TF = .06875

NOTE: As a no-knead dough, it requires a long, cold ferment. Make dough 72 hrs ahead (absolute minimum is 48 hrs.; still great after 96 hrs), kept in fridge until a couple hrs before baking.   Punch down if needed during the first 12 hrs.  I like to separate out the dough balls after the first 12 hrs. of rising as one mass.

MIXING: When making the dough, dump all the dry ingredients into the mixer bowl, stir to combine, and then add the liquids.  Be sure to use cool water (60o-ish?). Mix it just until the dough comes together and is uniform throughout.  It's done.  That is, don't knead it.  Cover it and stick it in the fridge for 72 hrs, when it's pizza time.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on May 21, 2013, 07:04:01 AM
Given how many times I've made this recipe and how long it's been my only thin crust recipe I use (outside of the few experiments inspired by this forum), it sounds crazy to admit that I even tinkered with it at all.  But I think I have stumbled upon an innovation that improves upon this already great recipe:
NO KNEAD.

Here's the back story.  Every winter, the old neighborhood gang gets together for a guys weekend at a cabin in the woods.  Pizza Factory is the star of the show.  We all grew up eating it, and the pizzas we make that weekend are always the best.  Well, several months back, I was making 20-something dough balls for the long weekend, which is a taxing feat without a commercial sized mixer.  My little consumer grade KitchenAid would have to do, and it was going to be many batches at full capacity.  I also have a job and family and don't really have an extra day in the middle of the week to just sit around and make dough.  So I thought to myself, "Heck, I'll just not knead it at all and bang out these batches as quickly as possible."  I made five or six batches of four dough balls (300g each) per batch.  I bulk fermented each batch overnight in a ziploc bag and then balled and bagged up all 20-something. 

I really wasn't sure how they'd turn out.  I figured it would all be OK, and the good company and libations would smooth out any minor deficiencies.  Boy, was I wrong.  It was not OK--it was awesome! 

After the requisite 3-day cold ferment, the dough was workable as usual, but it baked up crispier and more wonderful than ever before.  I was hesitant to share these results here on the forum without further testing.  Yeah, 20+ pizzas might be too many for a fluke, but they were all made at the same time.  Since then, I have made it a couple more times, to great results.  I think this will be my new go-to method.  Would love to hear how it works for you.

NO KNEAD PIZZA FACTORY DOUGH

For each 14" pie, you'll need a 300 g dough ball.  Here is the recipe for two (because who in their right mind would make only one pizza? ;-))

AP Flour (100%):
Cool Water (50%):
IDY (.5%):
Salt (1%):
Oil (8%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (160.5%):
Single Ball:
373.83 g  |  13.19 oz | 0.82 lbs
186.92 g  |  6.59 oz | 0.41 lbs
1.87 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.62 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
3.74 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.67 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
29.91 g | 1.05 oz | 0.07 lbs | 6.65 tsp | 2.22 tbsp
3.74 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.94 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
600 g | 21.16 oz | 1.32 lbs | TF = .06875
300 g | 10.58 oz | 0.66 lbs | TF = .06875

NOTE: As a no-knead dough, it requires a long, cold ferment. Make dough 72 hrs ahead (absolute minimum is 48 hrs.; still great after 96 hrs), kept in fridge until a couple hrs before baking.   Punch down if needed during the first 12 hrs.  I like to separate out the dough balls after the first 12 hrs. of rising as one mass.

MIXING: When making the dough, dump all the dry ingredients into the mixer bowl, stir to combine, and then add the liquids.  Be sure to use cool water (60o-ish?). Mix it just until the dough comes together and is uniform throughout.  It's done.  That is, don't knead it.  Cover it and stick it in the fridge for 72 hrs, when it's pizza time.

Pics or it didnt happen :)

Nate
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on May 21, 2013, 11:50:19 AM
 >:D
Pics or it didnt happen :)

Nate
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 21, 2013, 04:04:28 PM
I just put some dough for your Pizza Factory dough (no knead version) in the 'fridge. Iím looking forward to Friday.  :drool:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: sotaboy on May 21, 2013, 04:42:06 PM
Let's stop this " pics or it didn't happen" BS. All Garvey did was post a different way to make the dough to achieve the same result of his original formula. And I thank him for the option.
Many esteemed posters here modify recipes, report their findings, without posting pics. You don't need 17 pictures of the same pizza to describe your findings.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on May 21, 2013, 04:47:29 PM
Garvey's formula is the best midwest-style thin crust on this site.  He can therefore say whatever he wants about it, and doesn't have to post photos if he doesn't want to.  (I think most people grow tired of the hoop-jumping required to post photos here.)  Others can say whatever they want about this, but until they post anything better, their comments really don't make any difference at all!   >:D >:D :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 21, 2013, 04:52:57 PM
Just in case there are other people as clueless as I, it's now a lot easier to post pix. I'm sorry I didn't know this earlier.

The following is from Steve:

The way that you upload images to the forum has CHANGED.

You no longer need to do any image manipulation in order to upload images. No resizing. No resampling. Just upload. The forum will automatically resize huge images to 1024 pixels wide and resample them to 75% image quality compressed JPGs. Thumbnails still display at 640 pixels wide.

You should be able to upload images directly from your iPhone/iPad too.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vcb on May 21, 2013, 05:24:52 PM
I've come up with a Chicago thin crust dough formulation that I'm pretty happy with.
I think it started as a variation of Garvey's generic Chicago thin crust dough recipe.

I use it for thin crust, hand stretched pizzas, and calzones, with great results.
http://www.realdeepdish.com/CHICAGO-THIN-CRUST-DOUGH.pdf (http://www.realdeepdish.com/CHICAGO-THIN-CRUST-DOUGH.pdf)

For those concerned about making the pizza peel/stone process less of a hassle,
I highly recommend picking up a pizza screen (or two) to bake your pizzas on.
When you use a screen, you won't need cornmeal or semolina to dust the peel,
so that stuff won't smoke up your oven when it falls off the stone.

I preheat my oven for an hour to about 500 degrees with a baking stone on the lower or middle rack.
I put a sheet of heavy duty aluminum foil across the top rack (This is how I try to simulate a pizza oven at home).

Roll or stretch your dough out and then gently press the edges onto the pizza screen to hold the dough in place (or crimp your edges like Barnaby's in Northbrook does).
add sauce, cheese, toppings, then place the pizza screen directly on the preheated stone.

Lower your oven to 460-475 (or not - get to know your oven) and bake for about 15-20 minutes.
For the last five minutes, you could remove the the pizza from the pizza screen and bake directly on the stone to get a crispier crust.

FWIW: When I post 'pics or it didn't happen', I am teasing, and I know most of you in here are doing the same ;D.
Generally, I think it's good to encourage others in this forum to try to take more photos when they can.  :chef:

I don't always post my pizza photos, (but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis)
err... I mean: but for those who are interested, you can see my pizza photo archive on Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/edheller/sets/72157628543774967/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edheller/sets/72157628543774967/)
It's mainly unprocessed raw photos, as I use Flickr as a backup service & to make photos available for sale.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 21, 2013, 06:37:00 PM
 :-D @ "pics it or didn't happen."

And thanks for the kind words, everybody.  I think sotaboy really nailed it when he said that it is "a different way to make the dough to achieve the same result of [the] original formula."  It is a nice time saver to not knead, and given the 72-hr ferment, probably unnecessary anyway.  But I actually think the results are better.  Not sure why that is, so I'm interested to see what redox says on Friday.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 21, 2013, 06:39:56 PM
For those concerned about making the pizza peel/stone process less of a hassle,
I highly recommend picking up a pizza screen (or two) to bake your pizzas on.
When you use a screen, you won't need cornmeal or semolina to dust the peel,
so that stuff won't smoke up your oven when it falls off the stone.

FWIW, I use foil, which achieves the same thing. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pizza is love on May 21, 2013, 09:30:02 PM
Thank you Garvey!!!!
I've been making pizza at home along time and we love your recipe.
Last night was the 5th time I made it for the family and the results were as expected PERFECT :drool:
I make a lot of deep dish and stuffed since we can't find any here and normally just order thin out of convenience but not anymore.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on May 21, 2013, 09:53:29 PM
Thank you Garvey!!!!
I've been making pizza at home along time and we love your recipe.
Last night was the 5th time I made it for the family and the results were as expected PERFECT :drool:
I make a lot of deep dish and stuffed since we can't find any here and normally just order thin out of convenience but not anymore.
Who's Garvey?   ;D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 21, 2013, 10:21:28 PM
Who's Garvey?   ;D

Bob, your sense of humor is lost on me sometimes.

(BTW, I am pictured in the first post of this thread, so I did happen. ;-))
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 21, 2013, 10:24:30 PM
Thanks for the kind words, pizza is love.  Looks like it turned out great!  I recognize that third picture for sure: that exact scene has been played out in my kitchen hundreds of times.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on May 21, 2013, 10:29:49 PM
no doubt! thats a good lookin chicago thin crust! garvey I can't believe your recipe can get better! I cant wait to try it! Thanks for all your pizza recipes and help!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 21, 2013, 10:32:06 PM
Thanks, man.  Can't wait to see "how it do" in the WFO!

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on May 21, 2013, 10:32:46 PM
Bob, your sense of humor is lost on me sometimes.

(BTW, I am pictured in the first post of this thread, so I did happen. ;-))
Ha! I know you did happen Garvey!   ;D
I seriously thought I was over on my "Chicago thin" thread man!  :-D   
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 21, 2013, 10:39:24 PM
I figured as much, Bob.  But isn't your (recent) thread a pictures-solicitation thread for all manners of Chicago thin anyway?  Regardless, as seems fitting somehow, that thread is all over the place now.

Peace,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on May 21, 2013, 11:12:38 PM
Let's stop this " pics or it didn't happen" BS. All Garvey did was post a different way to make the dough to achieve the same result of his original formula. And I thank him for the option.
Many esteemed posters here modify recipes, report their findings, without posting pics. You don't need 17 pictures of the same pizza to describe your findings.

Chill.  It is an inside joke.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on May 21, 2013, 11:23:00 PM
Let's stop this " pics or it didn't happen" BS. All Garvey did was post a different way to make the dough to achieve the same result of his original formula. And I thank him for the option.
Many esteemed posters here modify recipes, report their findings, without posting pics. You don't need 17 pictures of the same pizza to describe your findings.
I do!  ;D   Well, maybe toss in a freshy pie pic once in a while.  :drool:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 23, 2013, 03:18:14 PM
I used the expanded dough calculator to make 2 dough balls for 13-inch pies. I was planning on using my 12-inch cutter pan but Lo & Behold, my Emile Henry Rectangular Baking Stone arrived early from Woot (Iím planning on using it on the grill a lot this summer). Since I already have a baking stone in my oven, Iíll now be able to try Garveyís 2-stone method to evaluate how well that works for me. So, Iíll roll out the dough to 13-inches tomorrow.
There are a couple of, I hope, not too significant differences.
First, I ran out of KAAP flour so the dough is comprised of 42% KAAP and 58% Ultra Grain Blend AP flour. Thatís probably the most significant difference but hopefully not critical.
Second, Iíve got a case of Contadina Organic Tomato Paste so thatís what Iím using. Well, not the whole case, just one can.  ;D
Third, the dough didnít seem to be showing much rise (the Ďfridge is 38į) so I left it on a kitchen counter for several hours today, then back in the fridge.
Iím just listing these things so if this works out well, or doesnít, other people may see some things they might want to  change.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 24, 2013, 08:11:33 PM
Thank you, Garvey! For the best pizza ever to come out of my oven!
My wife never eats the bones, not until this time. She said it's the first time they tasted good.
I followed your procedure as closely as possible with the exceptions that I mentioned in a previous post. So tomorrow, I'll try the second dough ball (because as you said, "because who in their right mind would make only one pizza?) in a cutter pan so I can try avoiding that hour pre-heat with summer coming. I'm happy to answer any Qs. Pix to come.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: tinroofrusted on May 24, 2013, 08:34:38 PM
Redox, your pizza looks smashing!  I love the little bumps on the underskirt.  Well done! 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on May 24, 2013, 08:40:19 PM
Faaar out man...that is a great pizza right there Jay!  :drool:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 24, 2013, 08:49:42 PM
Redox, that is one great looking pie.  Thanks for trying out the new twist with the no knead and posting the results here.  What time should I come over tomorrow for the second pie?   ;D

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 24, 2013, 08:56:25 PM
Redox, that is one great looking pie.  Thanks for trying out the new twist with the no knead and posting the results here.  What time should I come over tomorrow for the second pie?   ;D

Cheers,
Garvey
About 6 PM. I'll let you arm wrestle my better half for her share.  :P
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 24, 2013, 08:58:51 PM
Redox, your pizza looks smashing!  I love the little bumps on the underskirt.  Well done!
Uh-oh, bumps on the underskirt sounds like something that needs ointment.  ;D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 24, 2013, 09:01:12 PM
Faaar out man...that is a great pizza right there Jay!  :drool:
Thanks, Bob. I think I finally got it thin enough to qualify as Official Chicago Thin Crust Pizza. This was really exceptional. At least for me.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 25, 2013, 08:46:12 PM
Yesterday's sausage & mushroom pizza was baked mostly on the stone at the lowest oven level at 450 į and the top browning was done on the top stone for about 1.5 minutes.
Today's pepperoni pizza was done in a 525 į oven that was turned down to 475 į when I put in the 12-inch cutter pan. It only took about 11 to 12 minutes, faster than I thought it would be. It baked completely on the 2nd level from the bottom of the oven. I'll post some pix and then quit cluttering Garvey's thread with my pizzas.  :)
I think this'll be my go to pizza for the summer since the cutter pan does away with the need to use baking stones with the long pre-heat that's necessary. This needs a bit of tweaking but should do very nicely for the hot weather ahead.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on May 25, 2013, 09:10:45 PM
Best looking pizza on this thread Jay....excellent job.  :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 25, 2013, 09:31:13 PM
Best looking pizza on this thread Jay....excellent job.  :chef:
I just asked myself, "How would Bob shoot these pix?"  ;D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on May 25, 2013, 09:36:59 PM
I just asked myself, "How would Bob shoot these pix?"  ;D
Oh believe me redox, I could see my artistry in your magnificent action shots man!!  8)



 :-D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 25, 2013, 11:15:07 PM
From now on, I'll just ask myself, "WwBd?"
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on May 25, 2013, 11:30:56 PM
From now on, I'll just ask myself, "WwBd?"
:)  Thanks, you did good with Garvey's pizza.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 26, 2013, 02:47:15 PM
The cutter pan version looks amazing.  Was the pan lubed at all?  I need to rethink my aversion to cutter pans.  That upskirt shot looks like golden goodness.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on May 26, 2013, 03:23:19 PM
Jay,

Looks like Rosatis!  Was this the no knead version?  I'm gonna have to revisit this formulation me thinks.

Nate
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 26, 2013, 03:50:25 PM
The cutter pan version looks amazing.  Was the pan lubed at all?  I need to rethink my aversion to cutter pans.  That upskirt shot looks like golden goodness.
I got my cutter pan here http://lloydpans.com/standard-pans/pizza-tools/pizza-pans-and-trays/cutter-pans (http://lloydpans.com/standard-pans/pizza-tools/pizza-pans-and-trays/cutter-pans) and they say all that is needed is an initial wash before the first use. I added a dash of canola oil and then wiped it out with a paper towel leaving only a slight sheen behind. Maybe it's not really not necessary but I feel that it adds a bit of browning w/o the frying effect of using more oil. Their pans aren't cheap but they're very high quality. It's like something Oddjob would heave at James Bond.  :)
p.s. They were the Anodized PSTK pans.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 26, 2013, 03:55:36 PM
Jay,

Looks like Rosatis!  Was this the no knead version?  I'm gonna have to revisit this formulation me thinks.

Nate
Yep, it was the no knead version. I've done no knead breads in my Lodge Dutch oven and those worked so well that I wanted to try this. This made the best pizzas I've yet had from this site. This hardest part is waiting 3 days before the dough is ready. The second dough ball I baked on the 4th day was just as good.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Condolini on May 28, 2013, 08:42:19 AM
Made the dough on Saturday, it's cool enough to have the oven on to heat the stone. Fingers crossed guys and girls, I'm goin' in! Will let you know the results.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 28, 2013, 10:20:07 AM
I read a tip from the Dough Doctor somewhere else on the forum and bought a 2-inch diameter wooden dowel that I cut to 18-inches in length and then sealed with butcher block conditioner. If you don't happen to have a table top sheeter then the dowel works just fine to get the dough rolled really thin.  :)
Good luck with your pie!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on May 28, 2013, 10:25:41 AM
I read a tip from the Dough Doctor somewhere else on the forum and bought a 2-inch diameter wooden dowel that I cut to 18-inches in length and then sealed with butcher block conditioner. If you don't happen to have a table top sheeter then the dowel works just fine to get the dough rolled really thin.  :)
Good luck with your pie!

I'm trying to picture what this looks like.  Are there two dowel rods together?  Is there a crank?

Nate
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 28, 2013, 10:28:44 AM
I'm trying to picture what this looks like.  Are there two dowel rods together?  Is there a crank?

Nate
No, it's just a rolling pin with no handles. Just press and roll. Easy peasy.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on May 28, 2013, 11:42:39 AM
No, it's just a rolling pin with no handles. Just press and roll. Easy peasy.
C'mon man...it's easy peazzy dude!  Sheesh!!  ::)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on May 28, 2013, 01:12:09 PM
No, it's just a rolling pin with no handles. Just press and roll. Easy peasy.

Like a French rolling pin?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 28, 2013, 01:16:42 PM
C'mon man...it's easy peazzy dude!  Sheesh!!  ::)

Yeah and this guy's got it wrong, too.  ;D

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 28, 2013, 01:22:52 PM
Like a French rolling pin?
Yeah, but those are thicker in the middle and tapering towards the ends. If you're more skillful than I am you could probably use one but the constant diameter dowel-type rolling pin is easier for those of us less skillful. I don't think I could roll a perfectly even and consistently thin pie with a French rolling pin. I have a French rolling pin and the dowel is much easier to use for this purpose.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vcb on May 28, 2013, 01:33:20 PM
You can get one of those straight rolling pins (and spacers) on amazon (and elsewhere) for $20 bucks or less, no labor involved on your part.  :chef:

Just search for 'rolling pin'  ::)

There's even one made in (gasp) the USA!
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IYYG26/?tag=pizzamaking-20 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IYYG26/?tag=pizzamaking-20)

[seriously, I'm amazed that anything is made in the USA anymore]  ;D

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on May 28, 2013, 01:59:09 PM
You can get one of those straight rolling pins (and spacers) on amazon (and elsewhere) for $20 bucks or less, no labor involved on your part.  :chef:

Just search for 'rolling pin'  ::)

There's even one made in (gasp) the USA!
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IYYG26/?tag=pizzamaking-20 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IYYG26/?tag=pizzamaking-20)

[seriously, I'm amazed that anything is made in the USA anymore]  ;D
If I'd seen that I'd probably have ordered it just because I'm lazy but I got a 4' dowel (2-in. dia.) for 6 or 7 bucks at Menards and it was easy to cut. And I've got enough left for an extra.
Yeah, I'm always surprised when something is made in the USA, too. But this doesn't even have any moving parts! We're like our own third world country.  ???
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDN on July 10, 2013, 10:14:15 AM
Good Day All,

I have tried to absord as much a possible from this forum. Lots of very smart folks here for sure.

My Wife and I both like a thin pizza so I decided to try this as my first attempt at dough.

My first issue is that my digital scale does not show two decimal places, so I did the best I could.

The recipe I followed was from the start of the thread.
Below you can see the flour and yeast used. I am trying to find proper pizza Flour at this time.
The first dough is after kneading dough by hand, I don't have a mixer
And the second dough ball is the next morning.
My mistake was adding oil to the ball why, just what I seen.

Q; I still need to punch down knead and make two balls. Can I remove and wipe the excess oil off?

Thanks for viewing,
CDN
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on July 10, 2013, 10:50:14 AM
Wow that does look like quite a lot of oil!  :chef:  I don't think you'll be able to remove much by wiping the dough ball, but you can try tilting the bowl to dump the excess out.  I would just go ahead and cook their anyhow, after all doughs of this style can contain relatively high amounts of oil.    :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDN on July 10, 2013, 10:58:15 AM
Thanks I will start draining now.

Not sure why the pics went sideways.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on July 14, 2013, 02:28:11 PM
CDN
I hope your pizza turned out ok. Garvey's is my favorite so far. It is outstanding! It closely duplicates my favorite local joint that is, unfortunately going downhill, so it's great having this one to replace it.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: eric88h on July 14, 2013, 11:35:40 PM
Whats going on everyone?

Completely new to pizza making and have a few questions.


I've never really cooked much ever..but am a huge pizza lover. I tried making my own pizza a few weeks ago, using crap ingredients and some random brand pizza sauce. As predicted, the pizza sucked, but the making it Is what I really enjoyed. So I did some googling and Stumbled upon this website and have ever sincee been thrilled to start making a killer pizza I'll actually enjoy.

New to pizza making I decided to keep it simple. I used loo's emergency dough and it came out good enough.

The rest of the pizza is where my questions are.

I decided to try Garvey's sauce hoping it would be similar to the pizza joints I love most. But unfortunately..it wasn't. I'm not sure if I cooked it wrong, but it was more of a spicy sauce. Is it supposed to be somewhat spicy? The sauces I like most, and are used of..are the more Sweet flavored sauces. One of my favorite pizza joints which have a few over Chicago is "Pizza Nova". Theres a ton of other places that make similar pizza, but I really doubt you'll know of those unless you lived in my neighborhoods. (Little Village/Cicero/Berwyn area)

Since this sauce is raved about.. I'm assuming I must have done something wrong.

Also, the cheese was bland. I used "Frigo" whole milk mozzarella (from a block). I've been reading people add Provolone and cheddar to give a better taste to it, so I'll have to try that next time.

On my first pizza I used a store made italian Sausage...which completely threw the pizza taste off and wasn't good at all. I tried finding some fennel sausage, but was unable to so just bought some pepperoni instead. Which takes me to my next question. What kinds of pepperoni's are you guys using? I've tried store brands, hormel, and 1 other that I can't remember the name of..and none of them seem to match the flavor of pepperoni's restaurants are serving out. They taste like pepperoni's I'd find in a lunchable or something.

Well, any help you guys can give would be appreciated. I really enjoyed making the pizzas..but can't settle with these "just ok" flavors.

Thanks in advance!

-Eric
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on July 15, 2013, 09:22:06 AM
Eric, you made a sauce containing 12 different spices and asked if it's "supposed to be somewhat spicy"....the answer is yes.
Mozz is a bland cheese...most folks add provo or ched or any type of flavorful cheese you may like.
The best store bought fennel sausage I know of is Premio "mild".
Good pepperoni can be found by using the "search" function.  ;)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on July 15, 2013, 04:29:10 PM
Quote
The best store bought fennel sausage I know of is Premio "mild".

Bob, saw something really strange yesterday while shopping at the local BJ's Club. They've always had Premio sausage, but they had them in different packaging yesterday, and it said ,"Made exclusively for BJ's Club". They had Sweet and Hot, but no Mild. I guess I'll have to try it again with BJ's brand of Premio.

Tom
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on July 15, 2013, 05:27:31 PM
Bob, saw something really strange yesterday while shopping at the local BJ's Club. They've always had Premio sausage, but they had them in different packaging yesterday, and it said ,"Made exclusively for BJ's Club". They had Sweet and Hot, but no Mild. I guess I'll have to try it again with BJ's brand of Premio.

Tom
Have you checked at your Walmart Tom...not all of them carry it .
Also, Costco is a supplier.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on July 15, 2013, 05:31:43 PM
Bob, Premio is all over the place down here. I've seen it at Walmart, Sams Club, BJ's Club, and a few of the regular grocery stores.

I'll tell you, it's not bad, but just doesn't have that real fennel kick for me. We have SweetBay grocery stores down here, and they're store brand is a much closer representation of Chicago's Italian, and I still add fennel to that.

Tom

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on July 15, 2013, 05:37:43 PM
Bob, Premio is all over the place down here. I've seen it at Walmart, Sams Club, BJ's Club, and a few of the regular grocery stores.

I'll tell you, it's not bad, but just doesn't have that real fennel kick for me. We have SweetBay grocery stores down here, and they're store brand is a much closer representation of Chicago's Italian, and I still add fennel to that.

Tom
10-4...btw, have you had the Premio "mild"?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on July 15, 2013, 05:44:18 PM
I don't think I've bought Premio in years. We've been here 12 years, and I've always searched for the tastes of home, Vienna Red Hots, Italian Beefs, Italian sausage, thin crust pizza, and a lot of others too numerous to mention. Actually we like Hot Italian best so I can't say that I would have ever tried the mild. I guess I'll have to try it out on your recommendation.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Mmmph on July 18, 2013, 09:01:35 PM
WOW!

I followed the recipe 100%, except I used a cutter pan. The sauce was deep. The dough was easy to work with and crisped up beautifully. This was a sausage and red onion pizza. I made two...but the second one was devoured while I was photographing the first.

Thanks, Garvey....

I'M EATING PIZZA FACTORY!!

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on July 18, 2013, 10:08:12 PM
WOW!

I followed the recipe 100%, except I used a cutter pan. The sauce was deep. The dough was easy to work with and crisped up beautifully. This was a sausage and red onion pizza. I made two...but the second one was devoured while I was photographing the first.

Thanks, Garvey....

I'M EATING PIZZA FACTORY!!
Looks great! I used a cutter pan too. I love Garvey's pizza. Yours is terrific. Sorry about short sentences, hate typing on iPad.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on July 18, 2013, 10:24:07 PM
WOW!

I followed the recipe 100%, except I used a cutter pan. The sauce was deep. The dough was easy to work with and crisped up beautifully. This was a sausage and red onion pizza. I made two...but the second one was devoured while I was photographing the first.

Thanks, Garvey....

I'M EATING PIZZA FACTORY!!
That is a really fine looking Chicago thin pizza Mmmph.  :chef:
I like using the cutter pan for that small lip it gives around the edge of the pie.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on July 18, 2013, 11:38:36 PM
dynamite lookin pizza!!!! nice work!!  and once again way to go garvey!!!  awesome recipe!! 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on August 04, 2013, 07:48:30 AM
Garvey, have you tried your recipe using HG flour vs the AP flour used in your recipe. If so, what did you find. I ask because I have a bunch f the HG flour readily on hand.

thanks
jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on August 04, 2013, 08:05:04 PM
Garvey, have you tried your recipe using HG flour vs the AP flour used in your recipe. If so, what did you find. I ask because I have a bunch f the HG flour readily on hand.

thanks
jon

Same here.  I may give it a try as well.

Nate
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on August 04, 2013, 11:37:05 PM
I have played around with higher gluten flour but have always come back to AP.  This is low rent, hole-in-the-wall, standard Chicago thin.  It's gotta be AP for me. 

But have at it!  Play around and report back...

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on August 05, 2013, 08:44:57 AM
I have played around with higher gluten flour but have always come back to AP.  This is low rent, hole-in-the-wall, standard Chicago thin.  It's gotta be AP for me. 

But have at it!  Play around and report back...

Cheers,
Garvey
What he said.... ^^^
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on August 05, 2013, 09:47:27 AM
BTW, I keep HG flour on hand for when I make sourdough rye breads.  In other words, there ARE actually other things to bake besides pizza.  :-D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on August 05, 2013, 10:05:40 AM
I love it for making ciabatta bread. Our favorite is sauerkraut/jalapeno.

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on August 22, 2013, 03:20:09 AM
Garvey, in case you missed my post on the Blackstone thread, I highlighted your pie done on the BS. It was outstanding and using the same process I will be making a couple to go to a Dr friend of mines house to go with the pot luck brew day as he makes 50 gallons of beer and we drink the 3 he has on tap. They love my pizza and or bread so without one or the other they'd lock the doors on me :P :-D

jon
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25127.msg272456.html#msg272456 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25127.msg272456.html#msg272456)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on August 22, 2013, 01:58:01 PM
Wow, I hadn't seen that.  Thanks, Jon.  I am glad you like the Pizza Factory.  I need an outdoor oven!

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on August 22, 2013, 02:11:21 PM
You would NOT be unhappy with getting a BS. Hands down, one of the BEST, if not THE BEST 370 bucks I've spent....you would LOVE it!!

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on September 05, 2013, 06:22:19 PM
OK, my first try at a no knead Chicago Thin on the BS. First the dough. I just stuck it in the fridge. I hope it's supposed to look like this. It seemed a little dry.

Let it sit in the fridge until Saturday night or Sunday's dinner, if I can wait that long.

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on September 05, 2013, 06:35:05 PM
OK, my first try at a no knead Chicago Thin on the BS. First the dough. I just stuck it in the fridge. I hope it's supposed to look like this. It seemed a little dry.

Let it sit in the fridge until Saturday night or Sunday's dinner, if I can wait that long.
I've made this pizza and it turned out great. Yours will be just fine if you weighed everything accurately. Since it did not get kneaded, it needs the full 72 hours for the water to diffuse through the dough and for gluten development to take place. This is still my favorite on this site.  :drool:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on September 05, 2013, 07:46:51 PM
Thanks Garvey. I was just worried that it seemed a little dry. My normal is the emergency recipe that I make Saturday morning for dinner Saturday night. Of course, I lose all that good 'taste' in a well fermented dough.
Looking forward to Saturday night.

BTW: The dough ball came out to 595 g. So I was off on something by 5 g or maybe the rounding since the digital scale doesn't measure to .01 precision.

Pictures on Saturday,  or maybe sooner if the dough looks weird.

Tom
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on September 05, 2013, 09:51:20 PM
Haha--that wasn't me, it was redox who answered.  Depending on what kind of dough you normally make, a 50% hydration dough may seem stiff (e.g., compared to NY at 60-70%).  Given the oil level, though, you should find it easy to work with this weekend.

Personally, I can't eat emergency dough.  Way too many "off" flavors and indigestibility from unmellowed yeast byproducts.  Besides those (old man) factors, young dough is too unpredictable for me.  Needs too much fussing.  (hmmm, these sound like additional old man gripes, not separate factors... :-D)

Looking forward to hearing about your success.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on September 06, 2013, 05:56:47 AM
I can blame it on age...that and I picked up the response on my tablet, and didn't really get a good look at the respondee. Sorry redox. And maybe it was that second martini...
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on September 06, 2013, 10:07:25 AM
I can blame it on age...that and I picked up the response on my tablet, and didn't really get a good look at the respondee. Sorry redox. And maybe it was that second martini...
The second martini...ah yes, that's the sweet spot.  ;D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on September 06, 2013, 12:56:46 PM
The second martini...ah yes, that's the sweet spot.  ;D
Yep, the one that tells you that these really are pretty good and you'll be needing a few more.  8)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on September 06, 2013, 02:44:01 PM
Yep, the one that tells you that these really are pretty good and you'll be needing a few more.  8)
Make one of them a Florida Key Lime Martini and I'm in.  (NEVER get a Key Lime Martini in a green color as they just a dumb "northern interpretation" of a great drink.  (Hic . . . . ! . . . ! )
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on September 06, 2013, 03:18:43 PM
Actually, it's a dirty Tanqueray on the rocks with 3 garlic and jalapeno double stuffed olives.

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on September 06, 2013, 03:26:30 PM
Make one of them a Florida Key Lime Martini and I'm in.  (NEVER get a Key Lime Martini in a green color as they just a dumb "northern interpretation" of a great drink.  (Hic . . . . ! . . . ! )
Sounds great! What's your recipe for that tasty sounding libation? I'm sure I've got all the ingredients, I could make one tonight.  :drool:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on September 08, 2013, 01:43:09 PM
What can I say - the results turned out fantastic. Very flavorful, and baked very easily.

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on September 08, 2013, 01:48:02 PM
What can I say - the results turned out fantastic. Very flavorful, and baked very easily.
Great job on that thin crust, Tom. It looks great! And delicious. :drool:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on September 08, 2013, 04:27:18 PM
Delicious, they were!

The pictures turned out a little darker than they actually were. I made this dough Thursday evening for Saturday night. Next week, I'll make the dough on Wednesday,  for Saturday night.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: redox on September 21, 2013, 03:51:03 PM
Ah, just put some Garvey's No-Knead Pizza Factory Clone in the fridge for 3 days hence. I didn't really want to say "hence" but it just popped out. I've tried "hence-sitting" but it just doesn't work.  :)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on October 22, 2013, 11:58:19 PM
So Garvey, I took the liberty of tweaking your recipe just a titch and also made some conversions to make it in a bulk batch so one doesn't have to do all the measuring every time you need it. I figure about 1-2 tbsp per 12 oz can of paste with the water. I bought the spices as leaf like you suggested and then ground them down in a blender to approximate the size granules of the garlic, onion, salt, pepper etc. so then finer grained stuff wouldn't fall to the bottom and would stay more homogenized you could say.  Turned out real nice, thank you for a great recipe!!

jon

                               Garvey's PIZZA FACTORY RECIPE

12 oz. can Contadina tomato paste     
3/4 c. water

1/2 tsp. salt                                        1/2cup
1/2 tsp. black pepper                            1/2 cup
1/4 tsp. onion powder                           1/4 cup
1/8 tsp. garlic powder                           1/8 cup
1 tsp. thyme                                        1 cup
1/2 tsp. basil                                       1/2 cup   
3/4 tsp. oregano                                   3/4 cup
1 1/4 tsp. marjoram                              1 1/4 cup
1 tsp. fennel seed                                 1 cup
1/2 tsp. McCormick Italian Seasoning       1/2 cup
3 dashes paprika                                   1/8 cup
1/2 tsp. sugar                                       1/2 cup
1/4 tsp Aleppo Flakes                            1/4 cup (I used a bit more, pretty much replaces the paprika if one wanted to omit, I used both)

Anything I left out or suggestions fire away!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on October 23, 2013, 10:12:55 PM
Nice going.  Thanks, Jon.  That's actually how original Pizza Factory did it, more or less.  One scoop of the pre-mix blend per giant can of paste.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Qarl on October 25, 2013, 12:24:22 AM
I've never used a cutter pan.  Do you wipe it lightly with oil and place directly on the rack?

Or do you place it on a stone like you would do for Sicilian or deep dish?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Mad_Ernie on October 29, 2013, 11:16:15 AM
Qarl:

I've done both.  Putting it on the stone will give you a little more heat generated from the bottom, but not like if you were to put the pizza directly on the stone.

-ME
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on October 29, 2013, 05:24:55 PM
I've never used a cutter pan. 

I've experimented a few times with cutter pans but simply did not have any luck getting the crust to come out right, FWIW...
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Mad_Ernie on October 30, 2013, 10:45:29 AM
I've experimented a few times with cutter pans but simply did not have any luck getting the crust to come out right, FWIW...

I second that comment.

-ME
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: BTB on October 30, 2013, 11:03:31 AM
Just another man's opinion . . .  I've done hot stones, screens, and cutter pans and prefer cutter pans first, screens second, and stones last.  But one must test all out for themselves.   Peoples' use of cutter pans, however, is erratic as they do not use them in a consistent or proper manner.  Hard to describe.  But I love to use cutter pans for thin crust Chicago style.  --BTB
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on November 01, 2013, 04:53:34 PM
I have a question that I have not gotten or actually too many search responses on.

Can I make a Chicago thin crust using Caputo flour?

Balistreris in Milwaukee made this super thin crust pizza, very airy,  almost like a saltine cracker, but without the layers.  I'm really trying to duplicate it and am getting close, but I'm not there yet. My next experiment would be try Caputo.

I'm hoping the high temp tolerance of Caputo will allow me to get that crispness on the Blackstone without making it too charred.

Tom
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on November 01, 2013, 07:50:10 PM
I have a question that I have not gotten or actually too many search responses on.

Can I make a Chicago thin crust using Caputo flour?

Balistreris in Milwaukee made this super thin crust pizza, very airy,  almost like a saltine cracker, but without the layers.  I'm really trying to duplicate it and am getting close, but I'm not there yet. My next experiment would be try Caputo.

I'm hoping the high temp tolerance of Caputo will allow me to get that crispness on the Blackstone without making it too charred.

Tom

MAN Balisteri's looks AWESOME  :drool:
http://balistreris.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Balistreris-MilwaukeesBestPizza.jpg (http://balistreris.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Balistreris-MilwaukeesBestPizza.jpg)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on November 01, 2013, 09:50:48 PM
It's #1 in pizza for me, and what I strive to imitate.
The crust is paper thin, and so tender, but crisp.
I haven't had it now in over 10 years. I may need to fly up there just to taste it again.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on November 02, 2013, 03:02:30 PM
You might get some better help looking/posting in the cracker style sections of the greater forum.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on November 03, 2013, 08:44:15 PM
I have a question that I have not gotten or actually too many search responses on.

Can I make a Chicago thin crust using Caputo flour?

Balistreris in Milwaukee made this super thin crust pizza, very airy,  almost like a saltine cracker, but without the layers.  I'm really trying to duplicate it and am getting close, but I'm not there yet. My next experiment would be try Caputo.

I'm hoping the high temp tolerance of Caputo will allow me to get that crispness on the Blackstone without making it too charred.

Tom

I tried it once on the BS using SI 00 flour with 'just ok' results. There are better ones that I've done on the BS using HG flour, just do a par-bake and run around 600-700 temps

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on November 04, 2013, 05:47:36 AM
I tried it Saturday evening. It turned out OK. Nothing special. I think I launched it at about 750-775 on the bottom stone, and while it was paper thin, it charred a little too much before the middle cooked.
I may try it again, and then again, maybe not.

Tom
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on November 04, 2013, 09:30:30 AM
I tried it Saturday evening. It turned out OK. Nothing special. I think I launched it at about 750-775 on the bottom stone, and while it was paper thin, it charred a little too much before the middle cooked.
I may try it again, and then again, maybe not.

Tom

Hey Tom, I'm not sure what formulation or style you're referring to, but if it's a Chicago thin then those temps are way, way hotter than is typically used.  Chicago thins are generally baked between 425 and 500.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on November 04, 2013, 05:58:27 PM
I agree with you. I let the blackstone get ahead of me. I lit it up, and went inside to make the pizza. I came back out with the pizza, hit the stone with the IR gun, and immediately figured it was too hot, but then again, this is Caputo, which is somewhat tolerant of the heat.

One of these days, when I'm fooling around again and experimenting, I'll try it at the lower temp, if I can get it low enough on the BS..

Tom
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: TomN on November 04, 2013, 07:51:47 PM
I just wanted to thank you again for sharing your sauce recipe on page 1. Many people do not share their sauce recipes. Thanks again.

TomN
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on November 04, 2013, 08:31:22 PM
I just wanted to thank you again for sharing your sauce recipe on page 1. Many people do not share their sauce recipes. Thanks again.

You're welcome! 

That was (/is?) the biggest shortcoming of these forums.  First and foremost, this seems to be a dough/crust community.  I actually didn't join and only occasionally browsed around for years and years because of this.  Then I thought the best way to change things was to jump in myself.  So I always include my sauce recipes (e.g., my Aurelio's recipe is somewhere on here, too).  But my best guess is that folks here undervalue sauce or something.  I dunno.  I still can't figure that aspect out about this forum.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: tinroofrusted on November 04, 2013, 10:53:22 PM
In my case, the sauce recipe would be: "One can of good quality crushed tomatoes". There just isn't that much to say about most of my sauces.  That said, I am all in favor of more "sauce community". And I really love the Garvey pizza sauce too (as documented above). 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on November 04, 2013, 11:18:30 PM
And I'll add this, if anyone hasn't tried the seasoning blend, it is GREAT! I took a few liberties to adjust to my own taste and converted it into a bulk recipe and it has become my "GO TO" Italian blend. I posted in the "Off Topic Foods" under 'Chorizo Spaghetti Sauce' about using it in that. It really is a great seasoning blend to be used on WAY more than pizza. VERY versatile spice blend. The leftover sauce will be a lasagne tomorrow :drool: Thanks again to Garvey!!!

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pete-zza on November 05, 2013, 08:25:59 AM
That was (/is?) the biggest shortcoming of these forums.  First and foremost, this seems to be a dough/crust community.  I actually didn't join and only occasionally browsed around for years and years because of this.  Then I thought the best way to change things was to jump in myself.  So I always include my sauce recipes (e.g., my Aurelio's recipe is somewhere on here, too).  But my best guess is that folks here undervalue sauce or something.  I dunno.  I still can't figure that aspect out about this forum.
Garvey,

As one who has observed these sorts of matters over the years, there is a fair amount of truth to what you say about pizza sauces. They have pretty much always been stepchildren to the dough. In this vein, I once started a monthly challenge in which I asked members to post their favorite red pizza sauces. As you can see from http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9744.0.html (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9744.0.html), the silence was deafening.

In my experience, tomatoes and sauces have always been intensely personal and highly opinion based. And people can be very vocal in expressing their love or hatred for a particular sauce or tomato. That is why I rarely comment on them. My opinion would be no better or worse than any other. More than once, I have seen members ask other members for their favorite or best pizza sauces only to pan them when they were submitted and tried. Similarly, I don't think that there is any canned tomato product that a member has loved on this forum that someone else couldn't stand. And heaven help you if you cook your pizza sauce :-D.

The above said, there are some pizza sauces that do attract others and have become favorites. Yours is one of them. And November's unique pizza sauce, as described at Reply 7 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3735.msg32136.html#msg32136, (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3735.msg32136.html#msg32136,) is another. People also like clones of pizza sauces, perhaps more so than original pizza sauces. A good example of this is the Papa John's clone pizza sauces at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6633.0.html (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6633.0.html). Elsewhere on the forum, clones of the Pizza Hut and Domino's sauces have also been posted, and others have been attempted.

I'm glad you decided to stick around and to post your favorite Chicago thin style, sauce, sausage and seasonings.

Peter
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on November 05, 2013, 11:24:03 AM
Peter:

Thanks for the reply.  That thread is shocking, indeed.  Only two recipes contributed?  Crazy.

I agree that the clone recipes tend to gain more traction, since an actual benchmark exists in the original recipe.  That is typically where we see more group contributions, but even that is not always the case.  My sauce recipe is indeed a clone...of a place that no longer exists.  So I don't feel bad when someone doesn't like it.  I'm only paying tribute to the original.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: IHK on November 05, 2013, 09:26:21 PM
Hey everyone,

Special thanks to Garvey and the rest of you who shared so much information. I made two of these pizzas and they turned out great! I took a couple pictures but they are nothing compared to some of the ones already posted.

Let me rephrase what I wrote above, the pizzas were awesome!!! I will definitely be making this again very soon and take some better pictures.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on November 05, 2013, 09:52:34 PM
Hey everyone,

Special thanks to Garvey and the rest of you who shared so much information. I made two of these pizzas and they turned out great! I took a couple pictures but they are nothing compared to some of the ones already posted.

Let me rephrase what I wrote above, the pizzas were awesome!!! I will definitely be making this again very soon and take some better pictures.

Thanks again!

Post them pics anyway, I'm sure they look fine!

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vic311 on November 07, 2013, 11:28:48 AM
Garvey,

Thanks for all of your efforts in putting this recipe together.  Made a batch of dough yesterday and can't wait to make some delicious pizza on Sunday!!!

Joel
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: TomN on November 07, 2013, 05:18:42 PM
You're welcome! 

That was (/is?) the biggest shortcoming of these forums.  First and foremost, this seems to be a dough/crust community.  I actually didn't join and only occasionally browsed around for years and years because of this.  Then I thought the best way to change things was to jump in myself.  So I always include my sauce recipes (e.g., my Aurelio's recipe is somewhere on here, too).  But my best guess is that folks here undervalue sauce or something.  I dunno.  I still can't figure that aspect out about this forum.

Cheers,
Garvey

I have found the same to be true. I even started a topic to get people sharing their sauce recipes:
"If I gave you a can of Peeled Tomatoes? How would you make pizza sauce?"

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22498.0.html (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22498.0.html)

But not everyone is willing to share their sauce recipe. Not sure why? Thanks again,

TomN
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on November 10, 2013, 07:26:47 PM
After looking at the pies, I decided it had been too long since I have made a Garvey pie. No mods, just followed the directions to the letter. I also made the crust thinner than my last pies, and it was a 15" pie. It was a 3 day rest in the fridge. It was a sausage pie, and a lot more sausage than usual. Whole milk mozz, and the sauce was Garvey's.  I am still amazed how wonderful the sausage is, and I love how spicy the sauce is. No more store bought sausage for me. Thanks again for sharing your great recipe. This is one of my fave pies, and one of the easiest to make.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Aimless Ryan on November 10, 2013, 07:44:27 PM
I have found the same to be true. I even started a topic to get people sharing their sauce recipes:
"If I gave you a can of Peeled Tomatoes? How would you make pizza sauce?"

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22498.0.html (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22498.0.html)

But not everyone is willing to share their sauce recipe. Not sure why? Thanks again,

TomN
If I gave you a bag of AP flour, how would you make pizza dough?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on November 10, 2013, 08:51:46 PM
Nick:

Thanks for the kind words and the outstanding photographs.  Man, that pie looks so tasty and picture perfect.  You really nailed it!  I am glad to share this style of pizza with everyone who wants to try it.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on November 11, 2013, 12:30:06 PM
Thanks! Does the thickness look about right? I reheated the slices in a covered pan on the stove. They were very crispy, just like when the pie came fresh out of the oven. I may up the fennel a little on my next one. A friend of mine bought a Domino's thin and crispy sausage pizza the day before I cooked this one. The crust was limp and soggy, and the sauce was almost dry and you had to look for the sausage. It was worse than a frozen pizza. I am going to make your pie for her, I can't wait to see her reaction. Have a great Thanksgiving.  Hmmm..... A turkey and dressing pizza may be on the horizon. Maybe not :-D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on November 11, 2013, 01:53:30 PM
Yeah, man, the thickness looks right on.  With a 300g dough ball, anything from 13.5-ish to 15-ish inches is within spec...until I get a sheeter.   :D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on November 12, 2013, 02:25:19 PM
Nick:

Thanks for the kind words and the outstanding photographs.  Man, that pie looks so tasty and picture perfect.  You really nailed it!  I am glad to share this style of pizza with everyone who wants to try it.

Cheers,
Garvey


I second that.  That pie is beautiful Nick.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on November 12, 2013, 03:26:59 PM
Thanks guys! It is rewarding to create something much better than you can buy. I have to get used to the color of the sausage, I used to precook it before putting it on my pies. I was afraid that I may undercook the sausage. On my NY style I do cook the sausage because of the short cook time. On Garvey's style and Pete's Papa John's clone, it's a longer cook time. I really like the flavor and texture of the sausage when cooked on the pie.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on November 13, 2013, 04:07:51 AM
Garvey, have you tried your crust with a 50/50 HG and 00?? Thinking of trying it this week. I'll post the results/pics if I do. I know 3 racks of spares are in the mix too so it might have to be a pizza and ribs nite/weelend!!!

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on November 13, 2013, 12:12:37 PM
Jon:

You asked this same question a few pages back (it's OK, I'll soon be able to "hide my own Easter eggs", too  ;D).  I have played around with higher gluten flour but have always come back to AP.  This is low rent, hole-in-the-wall, standard Chicago thin.  It's gotta be AP for me.

But have at it!  Play around and report back...

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Musky on November 20, 2013, 09:19:11 PM
I made a batch of this dough and it's in the frig until Saturday.  Looking forward to it.  I'm going to try one on the stone, and one in a cutter pan.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Musky on November 21, 2013, 04:50:45 PM
Not much rise in the refrigerator out of my dough after 20 hours.  I hope I didn't screw anything up.  Lots of time to go yet, though.  I bought the ingredients for the sauce so I'm going to give that a try, Saturday, too.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on November 22, 2013, 10:27:05 PM
Musky:

Of course, assuming your yeast is OK and such... this recipe is a long, slow ferment.  What you describe sounds like the normal, desired behavior.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Musky on November 23, 2013, 10:07:53 PM
Garvey's Pizza Factory formula I made tonight.  The one thing I love about making several pies is I get one.  For me.  Mine.  With toppings my wife and daughter don't like.  This had sausage, a mix of olives, mostly green, sauteed baby portabella slices, and anchovies.  It rolled out easily and wasn't too sticky.  It had a nice crunchy bottom with a little chew.  The bottom on this browned fairly quickly, and the cheese slower.  I hit it with the infrared broiler in my oven at 9 minutes to get some browning to the cheese.  Paired with this sauce and toppings, this was really good.  As good as any pizza I've eaten in a long time.  Salty from the fish and olives, succulent/greasy from the sausage, and lightly mushroomed.  Good flavor to the crust.  The sauce is also really good.

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on November 24, 2013, 12:25:18 PM
The one thing I love about making several pies is I get one.  For me.  Mine.  With toppings my wife and daughter don't like. 

Preach it, brother!  I think we all suffer from this!   :D

My buddy Dave (co-creator of this recipe) refers to this as "the lifeboats," as in, make the first couple of pizzas to take care of the "women and children first", and then make OUR own pizza(s), for US.  So when we get together for a big pizza party, we'll always do the lifeboats first.  Then the real pizza can begin.

P.S. That combo you have there sounds amazing.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: FLAVORMAN on November 24, 2013, 05:40:53 PM
Hey team can get back to DEEP DISH?  so much about thin crust I am loosing my taste buds...oh boy am I going to hear about this....WHAT A GREAT FORUM...THANKS ALL
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on November 25, 2013, 10:54:27 AM
I wonder if NYers would like our thin crust.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on November 28, 2013, 01:11:38 AM
Garvey, I made a couple pies tonite using the 50/50 GM 00 flour and Kyrol HG using your formulation and Craigs "Baker's Yeast Quatity Prediction Model". Both pies turned out superb! Here's the link to that thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26831.msg289727.html#msg289727 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26831.msg289727.html#msg289727)

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Musky on November 30, 2013, 11:04:27 PM
Today I tried making some NY style pies for the first time, but made a batch of this dough as a back up in case of massive failure.  I didn't get around to rolling one out until it had been out of the fridge for five hours.  It was really soft and easy to spread out.  So I decided to try something.  I opened up with my hands then folded it is a couple times.  Spread it out with my hands again, then rolled it with a pin very thin.  It kind of came out laminated like a cracker crust, but less crispy, though it did have crunch.  It was really good.  My wife loved it.

Kevin

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: dmckean44 on January 17, 2014, 09:53:54 PM
I gave this one a go tonight and it tasted amazing. Thanks Garvey for the recipe and easy to follow instructions.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: dmckean44 on January 17, 2014, 09:54:45 PM
a couple more..
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 17, 2014, 09:58:06 PM
Very, very nice....what did you cook that on and at what temp please. :chef:

Bob
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: dmckean44 on January 17, 2014, 10:02:20 PM
I preheated to 550 and turned it down to 450 like the instructions said. I cooked it on my baking steel.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 17, 2014, 10:18:01 PM
I preheated to 550 and turned it down to 450 like the instructions said. I cooked it on my baking steel.
Thanks, I like the look of steel baked pies in this type of pizza....you did good.  :chef:

Bob
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on January 17, 2014, 11:00:24 PM
Yeah, man, that looks amazing!  Way to go!

So my graduate work in instructional design continues to pay off...in pizza...   ;D

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on January 18, 2014, 04:09:50 AM
Garvey! you rock dude! thank you!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: dmckean44 on January 18, 2014, 02:37:57 PM
I did up a supreme this morning with my other dough ball. This time it ended up a little thicker because I did a much better job rolling it out than the first time, but I think I liked it a little thinner. I probably could have left it on one more minute. It still tasted amazing either way.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 18, 2014, 02:56:12 PM
I did up a supreme this morning with my other dough ball. This time it ended up a little thicker because I did a much better job rolling it out than the first time, but I think I liked it a little thinner. I probably could have left it on one more minute. It still tasted amazing either way.
That's a beauty too dmc!   You're doing good man....try and start including a crumb shot with your pics, if you would.

Bob
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: dmckean44 on January 18, 2014, 06:43:40 PM
I'll make sure I take one next time. I'll get the hang of it and it's still just my fourth pizza and I don't even have a real peel yet.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on January 18, 2014, 07:51:56 PM
try and start including a crumb shot with your pics, if you would.

Pizza porn is one thing, but now we have fetishists to cater to?   :-D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 18, 2014, 08:53:26 PM
Pizza porn is one thing, but now we have fetishists to cater to?   :-D
Only way to live Garvey.  ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pm4fQRl72k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pm4fQRl72k)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on February 22, 2014, 06:35:51 PM
I made 2 balls of dough and let them rest in the fridge for 3 days. I followed your recipe for the crust, sauce and sausage. I only made one change, a little more black pepper in the sausage. I took the first pie I cooked, to the Tulsa Flea Market to let 4 of my friends give it a whirl. They usually get Domino's thin crust, and more often than not, it is terrible. They were amazed!!! They said it was one of the best tasting pizza's they have ate. The crust even stayed crispy on the drive over there.

My friends know I am a pretty good chef, and praised the pie and my skill. They asked me a ton of questions about the spices and the procedure I used to make it. I told them I could not take the credit for it. I explained I have some friends that are some of the greatest pie makers in the world, and that they are kind and generous in teaching the magic of making pizza. Thanks to everyone here.

Garvey, I think your Chi style pie is becoming my favorite. I'm afraid I am becoming hooked on the great flavor profile of your pie. I have a another ball that has been sitting in the fridge for 12 days. It's my cracker recipe, almost like yours, but only 45% hydration. It's got another week before I use it. I'll will post it in the general pizza making section. It is a low hydration dough, but the long rest makes it more like a NY style. The crust is not as chewy, and it's very crispy. The long chilled rest produces a very flavorful crust.  Thanks again Garvey!! I can't wait till tomorrow, I may have leftover pizza for breakfast. The first pic is the pie my friends wolfed down, the rest are of the pie I just finished cooking.   
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on February 22, 2014, 07:07:34 PM
Garvey, I think your Chi style pie is becoming my favorite. I'm afraid I am becoming hooked on the great flavor profile of your pie. I have a another ball that has been sitting in the fridge for 12 days. It's my cracker recipe, almost like yours, but only 45% hydration. It's got another week before I use it. I'll will post it in the general pizza making section. It is a low hydration dough, but the long rest makes it more like a NY style. The crust is not as chewy, and it's very crispy. The long chilled rest produces a very flavorful crust.  Thanks again Garvey!! I can't wait till tomorrow, I may have leftover pizza for breakfast. The first pic is the pie my friends wolfed down, the rest are of the pie I just finished cooking.

Nick,

So your cracker crust is in the fridge for 18-20 days total?!?! I would love to hear and see how that comes out, very intriguing! What's the flavor like? Any other pics of crusts that far out? Love to see them.

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on February 22, 2014, 07:34:04 PM
I posted my results of the long rest cracker at   http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=30024.0 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=30024.0)  It was like a NY style. I was able to hand stretch it. It was not as chewy, but more crispy and lighter in texture. The flavor of the dough was wonderful.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: dmckean44 on February 22, 2014, 07:59:29 PM
What I'm still wondering... If the Pizza Factory was this good, why the heck did it close?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on February 22, 2014, 08:33:29 PM
I have no idea if this what the real Pizza Factory tastes like. I will say this, if it was as good as Garvey's, it's a shame that they no longer exist. It could be  overhead got to high... rent, product cost got too high to maintain the quality, age of owners, management style changed, and cheap commercial pizza chains. I think price points seem to be more important than quality to the average Joe six pack consumer. I have only found two places that I am a repeat customer. They both take great pride in their product. The average price is around $20, but you can really taste the quality. One will even sell your their dough balls for $4. So if ya need that pizza fix in a hurry, it's a great deal. It's a high hydration dough, but works pretty good in the home oven. That's a sad statement, we have about 50 pizza joints in town, From East Coast style, to West coast, Chicago pan pizza, and Neapolitan. We even have a new high end pizzeria. I am going to try it out. Though I have had some friends go there, they said it was not any better than a regular bar type pie. I think the beautiful interior decor was more important than the actual product.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on February 22, 2014, 08:45:31 PM
What I'm still wondering... If the Pizza Factory was this good, why the heck did it close?

There's a number of reasons why great places close. We all know of a lot of places that serve crappy food that have been open for years, and places that have fantastic food barely make it a year. Mismanagement is usually at the top, along with location, theft, embezzlement......!

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on February 22, 2014, 08:51:29 PM
.....family feuding.  8)

Bob
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on February 22, 2014, 09:22:25 PM
.....family feuding.  8)

Bob

Hopefully it wasn't pissing in the sink like over at Pizza Slut.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on February 22, 2014, 09:22:34 PM
Yeah, either you come from a family that sticks together like Vito Corleone's or siblings that have their own issues. I am very lucky to have have come from a large family that love each other and never fight. Family is the most important thing in our lives. We have each other backs at all times, and are always kind to friends and strangers. Old fashioned I guess. My grandfather (Greek) had a Coney Island for 48 years. During the depression of the 30's he would feed homeless people out of the back door of of his restaurant. Even a few Gangsters on the top 10 list showed up for food. People would stand in line for his coney's. The hotter the chili the larger the crowds. I learned to cook there. I would make 100lbs of chili every two days from scratch. I would butcher the cow, grind the meat and cook it it 10 gallon pot for hours. When it came time to season the chili, my grandfather did not measure the spices. A handful of that and this, till it just tasted right. No tomato products in the chili, just the freshest of spices. I still make it at home. it is not as good as we made it in the cafe. Cooking in large volumes make a big difference in the flavor profile. I am always expected to bring a batch a couple of times for football season. The reason the Coney Island closed, is that he worked there till he had to go to hospital, and he died of heart failure. He loved to cook and put a smile of the customers and friends that came everyday.
  I should give back to my great friends here, and give the recipe. The main problem is where you get you spices for the chili. You have to use the spices from the Mecca Coffee company in Tulsa. Not sure if they do mail order, but they do sell to commercial restaurants. Using other brands of spices is not an option for this chili, they have very fresh products. So, I will pass along my family secret to any one interested. It's the least I can do for all the help I have received on making great pies.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on February 22, 2014, 11:14:35 PM
Through your grandfathers inspiration...he has now told a loving tale to us from you.
For myself...I don't even really need, or want, the correct original recipe. With the way you have described his passion Nick...I can close my eyes and almost taste it.
And I thank you for that pizza pal.  8)

Bob
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 22, 2014, 11:26:05 PM
Wow--lots to respond to here in these past few posts.

Nick, that pie looks so great!  I am driving to Tulsa right now!   :drool:

The Pizza Factory closed because of divorce.  Joe's wife got the business and sold it immediately and it got chopped up and closed for good.  It was a hole-in-the-wall with a loyal following.  This was long before caller ID, and Joe could recognize our voice on the phone and immediately recall our standard order ("family size: sausage on the whole thing, green pepper and onion also on just half").  We had a lot--I mean truly a lot--of great pizza joints around where I lived, but Pizza Factory was our go-to place.  My folks once went on vacation and left us food money, and we had Pizza Factory three times in five days.  My friends were so jealous.  My mom always had a Pizza Factory waiting for me and my brother every Friday night after swim practice.

So I gotta give credit where credit is due.  I didn't invent it, per se--I just made a bajillion pizzas one summer with my buddy Dave until we reverse engineered it as close as we could get.  That herbal bomb sauce is really something else, ain't it?

Also, you mentioned that your two good pizza places near you charge around $20.  That is reasonable, if not on the cheap side, compared to the Chicagoland thin crust joints I used to frequent and still visit when I'm up there.  A 15" sausage pizza at Aurelio's is $22.40 plus tax.  That is what it should cost.  Unfortunately, in most of the country, crap-pizza purveyors have foisted this idea upon an unsuspecting public that pizza is fast food, that it should be 10.99 to feed three or four people.  I'm sorry, but that just is not the case!  Pizza is made lovingly, by craftsman.  What Papa John's sells is not.  It's garbage, plain and simple.  (OK, enough soapboxing...  :chef:)

Anyway, glad you like the PF, and please pass along the Coney recipe.  Sounds delicious!!!

Peace,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on February 22, 2014, 11:33:26 PM
Thanks Bob! I believe if I do not pass on the secret to my family's secret recipe. It may be lost forever. I am only one of two people that know how it was made. It will take a little bit of time to explain the procedure, so I have to go through the steps with pics. I will post in the Off Topics thread.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on February 22, 2014, 11:39:18 PM
I love me a great chili dog. If you would rather PM those that want it count me in for sure. Many thanks ahead of time!!!

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on February 22, 2014, 11:41:52 PM
I hope you enjoy your stay in T town. If you do decide on some pizza, I won't make too many suggestions. I'm not sure what you like, Andolini's is the best, but you do have a lot of choices. For a great steak The Spudder, or the Blue Stone... My fave. Great aged beef.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on February 22, 2014, 11:47:09 PM
Thanks Bob! I believe if I do not pass on the secret to my family's secret recipe. It may be lost forever. I am only one of two people that know how it was made. It will take a little bit of time to explain the procedure, so I have to go through the steps with pics. I will post in the Off Topics thread.
You're a good man. When you post it up...I will make it.  ;)
Me an Jon will have a Dog Off!   :o


Bob
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 23, 2014, 12:21:59 AM
I hope you enjoy your stay in T town.

Oh, haha--I meant that as a joke, as if I were going to drive there tonight to eat your pizza.   :D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on February 28, 2014, 11:23:01 AM
 I got all the fixins for my Grandfathers chili.  I am going to make a batch tomorrow, and keep a record of  what I do. I will post it in  the Off- Topic Foods thread.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on February 28, 2014, 12:02:32 PM
I got all the fixins for my Grandfathers chili.  I am going to make a batch tomorrow, and keep a record of  what I do. I will post it in  the Off- Topic Foods thread.
Good deal!  8)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on February 28, 2014, 04:23:54 PM
Got my chili pot ready for next week!!

jjon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Mmmph on March 01, 2014, 04:31:52 PM
Eating Pizza Factory again this weekend. This is a tasty pie.

Sausage and Onion. Cutter pan.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Musky on March 01, 2014, 06:40:28 PM
I'll be baking up two of these shortly.

Kevin
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on March 01, 2014, 09:07:38 PM
Looks great!! It reminded me that I got some leftover pizza in the fridge. I know what's for breakfast.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Simple Man on March 02, 2014, 08:06:56 AM
Here's my 1st attempt at Garvy's Chicago Thin using the original recipe and sauce. I must say that even though I am not used to such a spicy sauce, I really enjoyed this one.

Certainly not as pretty as most I have seen on this thread but hey, looks aren't everything right?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pizzabill on April 07, 2014, 07:59:52 PM
My first attempt at garvy's Chicago thin in the blackstone was a big hit! Thanks for a great recipe!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pete-zza on April 07, 2014, 08:31:59 PM
pizzabill,

Good to see you back on the forum. I fondly remember your PizzaManiac website, which I used to follow until it came to an end.

Peter
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pizzabill on April 10, 2014, 08:03:24 PM
It's great to be back Peter! I've missed being able to contribute. Now that I own a blackstone oven I'm learning lots of new pizza things again. I've only had it for 4 weeks and I've averaged 8 pies per weekend. I even considered a new post at pizzamaniac.com ;)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: RedBeard on April 10, 2014, 10:27:47 PM

@BTB: Pizza Factory was in Highland, IN, just south of 80-94 and a few blocks from Hammond.  Similar style to Hammond's House of Pizza.


Having grown up in The Region myself I had not heard of Pizza Factory but this looks extremely close to another place in downtown Highland called Langel's. I worked there as a teenager, some 20 years ago, but couldn't for the life of me remember how the dough was made....so I'm pretty excited to give this one a try. Thank you.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 11, 2014, 09:06:03 AM
RedBeard:

It's is definitely Region pizza but nothing like Langel's. 

I love Langel's, btw, and have tried to reproduce it at home.  That style has a much softer dough, for one thing.  Maybe I'll post that formulation in a separate thread and see if you or anyone else wants to get to work on making it better.  Mine is similar but not close enough to make me ecstatic or anything.  Langel's is more of a Cal City style, with the soft dough and crumbled sausage.  The originator of the style would be John's, if you've ever had that one.  The original location in Cal City was the best one, but it's closed now.  And like many businesses before it, it's now passed down to multiple family members in different locations, each claiming to be the original.  I've heard the Munster location is closest to the original.  This is one of the great (sub-)styles of Region thin crust, with many imitators.  John's, Langel's, Barton's (Hammond/Highland), Villa Pizza (Griffith)...I'm sure there are others.

Peace,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on April 11, 2014, 03:29:10 PM
I'm still waiting for Garvey to invite all the Chicago natives for weekend of good eats........
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: RedBeard on April 12, 2014, 12:13:43 PM
RedBeard:

It's is definitely Region pizza but nothing like Langel's. 

I love Langel's, btw, and have tried to reproduce it at home.  That style has a much softer dough, for one thing.  Maybe I'll post that formulation in a separate thread and see if you or anyone else wants to get to work on making it better.  Mine is similar but not close enough to make me ecstatic or anything.  Langel's is more of a Cal City style, with the soft dough and crumbled sausage.  The originator of the style would be John's, if you've ever had that one.  The original location in Cal City was the best one, but it's closed now.  And like many businesses before it, it's now passed down to multiple family members in different locations, each claiming to be the original.  I've heard the Munster location is closest to the original.  This is one of the great (sub-)styles of Region thin crust, with many imitators.  John's, Langel's, Barton's (Hammond/Highland), Villa Pizza (Griffith)...I'm sure there are others.

Peace,
Garvey

If it helps I worked there (Langel's) as a prep cook. It was my job to make the dough among other things and honestly I do not remember them using yeast in their dough. It certainly didn't have any resting period. There was this little old lady named Evelyn that was the only one that had access to the actual recipes/formulations....kept it in a little notebook in her apron and would just tell me what to put in and how much. I really wish I had paid more attention.

BTW, Barton's makes me cringe anymore. We ate it for years but it has, in my opinion, went seriously down hill over the years.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: hockman4357 on April 20, 2014, 10:41:10 AM
Here is my first attempt at Garvy's Chicago Thin Crust.  I made the dough, sauce, and sausage as written.  The pizza was baked on a steel plate for 11 minutes with 1 additional minute on broil.  This was indeed one of the best pizzas I have made.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 20, 2014, 04:22:41 PM
Nice going, hockman!  Glad you liked it.

Did you roll the edge?  That would be my only feedback: this style should not have such pronounced bones.  Roll it flat and top it as close to the edge as you feel comfortable.  Of course, if you like it with bones, that's cool.  It's just not true to type, but that's not important to everyone anyone.  YMMV.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: hockman4357 on April 21, 2014, 05:40:02 PM
Nice going, hockman!  Glad you liked it.

Did you roll the edge?  That would be my only feedback: this style should not have such pronounced bones.  Roll it flat and top it as close to the edge as you feel comfortable.  Of course, if you like it with bones, that's cool.  It's just not true to type, but that's not important to everyone anyone.  YMMV.

Cheers,
Garvey
Hey Garvey!  Thanks for the feedback.  I did indeed roll the edge.  The pizza was 16" and rolled out really thin (.07) except for the slightly rolled edge.  I really liked the crunch of the rolled edge, so I might continue to do it this way even if it is not quite true to type.  I must say the the sauce recipe was excellent as was the italian sausage recipe.  I will no doubt continue to make this pizza.  It is a nice change from New York style that I have been working on.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: hockman4357 on April 26, 2014, 11:05:43 AM
Another Garvey pizza.  This time I did not roll the edge.  I did a convection bake on 1/2" steel.  Haven't decided if I like regular bake or convection bake better.  Regardless, this is good pizza!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 26, 2014, 10:03:02 PM
Looks great!  I might need to get a steel.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: hockman4357 on April 27, 2014, 01:59:53 AM
Tonight's Garvey.  96 hour cold ferment.  Baked at 450 (not convection) for 11 minutes on steel.  Awesome!!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on May 19, 2014, 01:40:21 PM
Garvey revisited...

24hr ferment.  450 bake for 10 minutes directly on stone.  I have a PSTK cutter pan coming in the mail and will try that as well.

I put Garvey's favorite red discs under the cheese since he enjoys a surprise so much :).
First time I tried the sauce I killed it with ground marjoram.  This time I only used a tiny bit.  The sauce is very flavorful.  Will attempt a sausage pie in next couple of days.

Love this pizza.  Always a good change up from the normal dough and sauce recipe.  Need to add more cheese next time as I was a little light.  Didn't weigh.

One thing I love to do if after the dough is rolled I sprinkle corn meal over it and gently roll it into the dough.  I love cornmeal on the bottom.  This may be my patented move.  Anyone else do that?

Nate
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pete-zza on May 19, 2014, 02:02:48 PM
One thing I love to do if after the dough is rolled I sprinkle corn meal over it and gently roll it into the dough.  I love cornmeal on the bottom.  This may be my patented move.  Anyone else do that?

Nate
Nate,

A while back I saw a Domino's video where a worker did that--both top and bottom.

Peter
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on May 19, 2014, 02:05:35 PM
Nate,

A while back I saw a Domino's video where a worker did that--both top and bottom.

Peter

Roll the dough over cornmeal or roll cornmeal over the dough?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pete-zza on May 19, 2014, 02:08:45 PM
Roll the dough over cornmeal or roll cornmeal over the dough?
Nate,

My recollection is that the worker opened up the dough ball on a mess of cornmeal on the work surface but also sprinkled some of the cornmeal on top of the skin.

Peter
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on May 20, 2014, 07:14:14 AM
Sounds too corny to me. >:(

CB
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on May 20, 2014, 07:21:33 AM
Sounds too corny to me. >:(

CB

Did someone say corn dog?

Nate
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pete-zza on May 20, 2014, 08:56:17 AM
I went back to see if I could find the Domino's video I mentioned earlier. I believe that this was the one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tAgv6N8cSI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tAgv6N8cSI)

My earlier description wasn't quite right in the sequence but the cornmeal does end up on the skin both top and bottom.

Peter
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pete-zza on May 20, 2014, 09:04:55 AM
And here are a couple of other Domino's videos that show cornmeal top and bottom:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFpsLwtGJcc#t=14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFpsLwtGJcc#t=14)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YyHe-dnJ4k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YyHe-dnJ4k)

Peter
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 20, 2014, 12:14:42 PM
IOW, we now have definitive proof that this practice must be discontinued by real pizza makers everywhere.
 ;D :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on May 20, 2014, 05:02:39 PM
IOW, we now have definitive proof that this practice must be discontinued by real pizza makers everywhere.
 ;D :chef:

No way Jose.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Tampa on May 21, 2014, 08:08:14 AM
And here are a couple of other Domino's videos that show cornmeal top and bottom:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFpsLwtGJcc#t=14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFpsLwtGJcc#t=14)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YyHe-dnJ4k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YyHe-dnJ4k)

Peter
Great videos Peter.  Thanks for sharing.
Dave
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on May 24, 2014, 01:28:43 PM
I have no pics but I tried out Garvey's no knead crust a few days ago and it was fantastic.  72hr ferment.  Crispy and tender.  I baked at 500 for 7 minutes directly on my stone. 

Nate
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Lost in the South on August 13, 2014, 02:08:03 PM
Those are gorgeous!  It's so sad that the ill informed and uneducated think of deep dish as Chicago pizza.  The first word I knew in pig latin was izzapa and I didn't have my first deep dish until 10 or more years later!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on October 29, 2014, 10:23:37 PM
 :( :(Tonites Chicago Thin with onions, fresh baby bella mushrooms and pepperoni. Done in the BS at about 650į....AWESOME!!!

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: camwell on November 05, 2014, 02:15:01 PM
Just made my first attempt at a pizzamaking.com Chicago thin, using

AP Flour (100%):  374g
Cool Water (50%):  187g
IDY (.5%):  1.9g
Salt (1%):  3.7g
Oil (8%):  30g
Sugar (1%):  3.7g

after  Garvey's no-knead suggestion here:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17662.msg255062.html#msg255062

My modifications (since I'm lazy -- er, um -- obsessed with time-efficiency):
- used Fleischmann's dehydrated instant dry yeast (not the fresher refrigerated stuff)
- combined water with salt and sugar  (water was 2/3 room-temp from tap, 1/3 chilled from refrigerator; didn't measure the actual temp)
- added yeast to water mixture and let sit for about 5 minutes
- using King Arthur unbleached all-purpose flour
- mixed it all up in the food processor for about 3 minutes
- dumped into a large oiled mixing bowl and rolled the ball around in the oil; covered bowl with Cling Wrap
- refrigerated x roughly 43 hours
- left bowl out at room temperature for 5 hours before rolling it out to a 14.5-inch round
- baked at 450 degrees x 22 minutes on 2nd-from-bottom rack  (the oven has electric heating elements at the bottom and at the top)

It came out well, except that it was way too thick. I wondered why the crust was so dang thick.
Then I re-read Garvey's recipe and realized that that recipe is for two pizzas, not one. D'oh! (see what I did there?)

I'm actually aiming for an Aurelio's style, but this first run was just to get the basics down, see how much I could get away with without having a stand mixer or pizza stone, and without kneading and tossing, and to try out some cheeses and two different sausage recipes.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Donjo911 on November 05, 2014, 02:26:07 PM
That is a none-to-shabby first attempt!  I it is certainly a great looking pie. Great job!
Cheers,
Don
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: jsaras on November 05, 2014, 02:32:49 PM
Dang!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on November 05, 2014, 06:18:34 PM
Wow the cheese looks like Vito and Nicks.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on November 05, 2014, 06:27:58 PM
Wow the cheese looks like Vito and Nicks.
Exactly Nate.   :o
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Donjo911 on November 05, 2014, 09:00:43 PM
Tonight's conversation with the wife:
Me: Honey, umm... You know what I see on Pizza Forum.  And that I remember all the great deli's, smoked chubs, and beef in the mid-west?  Ya. - We're gonna go there.
Wife: Didn't you tell me that you had, had it with giant snow drifts, "lake effect" snow, and the humidity in summer?
(off conversation)You all kill me with your work/love
Me: Honey - have you seen the food?!!
Me: That's some great pizza!
Wife: we don't have that here! Maybe.
Cheers,
Don
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on November 09, 2014, 01:41:15 PM
Yum! Garvey's thin crust is one of my favorite pies to make.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: jvp123 on November 09, 2014, 03:28:38 PM
Tonight's conversation with the wife:
Me: Honey, umm... You know what I see on Pizza Forum.  And that I remember all the great deli's, smoked chubs, and beef in the mid-west?  Ya. - We're gonna go there.
Wife: Didn't you tell me that you had, had it with giant snow drifts, "lake effect" snow, and the humidity in summer?
(off conversation)You all kill me with your work/love
Me: Honey - have you seen the food?!!
Me: That's some great pizza!
Wife: we don't have that here! Maybe.
Cheers,
Don

Awesome Don  :-D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mudman on November 18, 2014, 08:17:33 PM
This is one great pizza!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Mmmph on December 11, 2014, 11:58:10 AM
Again, I'm eating Pizza Factory!

16" cutter pan
Garvey Sauce, Premio Sausage, Red Onion, Hot Banana Peppers, WM Mozzarella.

Wow!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on December 11, 2014, 01:09:16 PM
Great googly moogly!  I wish *I* was eating *that* Pizza Factory right now!   :drool:

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on December 11, 2014, 10:56:26 PM
YUM, love the browning on the cheese!

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: jhnmllr911 on December 27, 2014, 11:26:36 AM
This looks VERY similar. I will be giving it a shot. Pics to come... THANKS

PIZZA FACTORY RECIPE

I. DOUGH

For each 14" pie, you'll need a 300 g dough ball.  Here is the recipe for two (because who in their right mind would make only one pizza? ;-))

AP Flour (100%):
Water (50%):
IDY (.5%):
Salt (1%):
Oil (8%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (160.5%):
Single Ball:
373.83 g  |  13.19 oz | 0.82 lbs
186.92 g  |  6.59 oz | 0.41 lbs
1.87 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.62 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
3.74 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.67 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
29.91 g | 1.05 oz | 0.07 lbs | 6.65 tsp | 2.22 tbsp
3.74 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.94 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
600 g | 21.16 oz | 1.32 lbs | TF = .06875
300 g | 10.58 oz | 0.66 lbs | TF = .06875

Make dough 48-72 hrs ahead (absolute minimum is 24 hrs.; my personal preference is 72; still great after 96 hrs), kept in fridge until a couple hrs before baking.  Punch down as needed during the first 12-24 hrs.  I like to separate out the dough balls after the first 24 hrs. of rising as one mass.

When making the dough, dump all the dry ingredients into the mixer bowl, stir to combine, and then add the liquids.  Mix until it the dough comes together, and then let it sit for 20 minutes, covered, to hydrate.  Resume with kneading until windowpane stage (5-10 mins).

II. SAUCE

Most recipes on this site fail to give sauce recipes.  Well, you're in luck.  Here's mine. Makes enough for two pizzas (or maybe a little more than two, depending on your preferences).

12 oz. can Contadina tomato paste
3/4 c. water
1/2 tsp. salt
1/2 tsp. black pepper
1/4 tsp. onion powder
1/8 tsp. garlic powder
1 tsp. thyme
1/2 tsp. basil
3/4 tsp. oregano
1 1/4 tsp. marjoram
1 tsp. fennel seed
1/2 tsp. McCormick Italian Seasoning
3 dashes paprika
1/2 tsp. sugar

Mix all ingredients together in a small or medium sized bowl, making sure to crush the leaves and seeds between your fingers as you add them, so that the essences of the spices are released into the sauce.  Mix well. 

Make sauce on day of baking and leave at room temp.  (If made too far ahead and refrigerated, the cold plus all the dried leaf herbs thicken the paste too much so that you will have to mix some water back in to get it to spreadable again.)

[NOTE ABOUT SPICES: Use dried spices, and use spices that are in the form of dried leaves, not the pulverized, "ground" varieties, except for salt, pepper, and the garlic and onion powders.]

OK, I admit that this may seem fussy with so many specific herbs and spices listed and even brand names.  Trust me: try it this way.  BTW, many Southside joints use tomato paste as the base, so I'm surprised more folks don't talk about that here.  And for whatever reason, Contadina is the best paste for this particular recipe.  Hunts and others just don't work nearly as well.  And since this is a saucy pie, there is a big difference.

III. ASSEMBLY

Roll out your 300 g dough ball to 14", which is just under the size of a typical pizza stone. The pizza will cook directly on the stone--no cutter pan or screen or anything. (I have lately been assembling on foil on the peel, just because I'm lazy and that's easier and less messy to slide onto the stone than cornmeal. Do whatever way you like, but you should not pan the pizza.)

Top with sauce.  I like to go pretty heavy.

Add sausage (ideally), raw and flattened out a bit, or however you like it.

Add any veggies or other toppings.

Top with about 6 oz (by weight) of shredded mozz; if you really want more, that's fine, but don't put more than 8 oz. (if you are using pre-shredded stuff, it's about 1 1/2 c to make 6 oz by weight)

IV. BAKING

Preheat a baking stone to 500į for one hour and reduce to 450į before putting in the pie.  (I like putting my stone on an upper rack, but you know your oven and local conditions better than I do.  I only know my oven.)

Carefully slide the assembled pizza onto the hot baking stone.  Bake at 450į for about 10 minutes (or 9-13 minutes, depending on your oven and your desired doneness).

When the cheese starts to brown and the crust looks golden, remove from oven and let stand on a cooling rack for 6-7 minutes before cutting.  [NOTE: The cooling rack is a key step, since it lets air under the crust to cool it and allow steam to escape; otherwise, if left on a pan, the crust will soften and no longer have that the desired texture on the bottom.  If you do not have a cooling rack, jury rig something.  At the very least, you can cool the pizza on cheap, non-waxy paper plates, which I have used with some success, since they are porous.] 

Of course, you'll need to slide it back onto a pan for cutting, which you see pictured in my profile and below.

"Party cut" only!  The square party-cut style is mandatory--never the more barbaric pie-cut. 

And thenÖ
YOU'RE EATING PIZZA FACTORY!

Feel free to download the txt file of this recipe, pasted below the picture.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: account on February 13, 2015, 11:09:56 PM
TinRoof,

That is a great looking pie!  I'm glad you found the recipe to your liking.  Chicago thin is a fairly sauce-heavy style, and even within the type, I go very heavy on the sauce.

I see you've got a nice two-stone setup, too.  A man after my own heart!  It's really the only way to go in the home pizza factory, er, kitchen.   :D

BTW, if you're not sausage averse, try making the sausage sometime and put that on there.  In Chicago, sausage is, by far, the most popular topping.  Pepperoni may be king everywhere else, but not in the Chicagoland area.

Cheers,
Garvey

Damn right!...because damn near everywhere else in the country has terrible sausage!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on February 13, 2015, 11:22:14 PM


  Amen bruddah.  8)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: account on February 14, 2015, 10:07:11 AM
Again, I'm eating Pizza Factory!

16" cutter pan
Garvey Sauce, Premio Sausage, Red Onion, Hot Banana Peppers, WM Mozzarella.

Wow!

That cheese looks great. What's "WM" mozzarella?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 14, 2015, 12:15:17 PM
That cheese looks great. What's "WM" mozzarella?

Whole Milk. 

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pete-zza on February 14, 2015, 03:12:36 PM
That cheese looks great. What's "WM" mozzarella?
account,

For future reference, see http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20056.0 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20056.0).

Peter
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on February 14, 2015, 04:01:14 PM
Whole Milk.

Oh I thought it was watermelon.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vcb on February 14, 2015, 04:03:22 PM
Oh I thought it was watermelon.

What?! Not "Wonderland Mushrooms" ?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: account on February 14, 2015, 10:38:20 PM
easy guys easy  8), I though it might have been the brand! Thanks Pete and Garvey.

So which brand is it :P
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: PizzaGarage on February 15, 2015, 04:39:48 PM
Ceresota flour

Sausage n Onion
45% hydration
5% white corn meal
.3 IDY
1.75 % Sea Salt
3% pure OO
.5% white sugar
0 bowl residue

Bake on stone 475
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on February 15, 2015, 06:05:24 PM
^ is this related to Garvey's Pizza Factory formulation?  If not, it would be easier to find in the future if it had its own thread.   :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pete-zza on February 15, 2015, 06:10:56 PM
It would also help to have a dough ball weight and actual ingredient quantities.

Peter
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: bigMoose on April 13, 2015, 10:12:33 AM
Reposting here as Garvey asked.  Dough recipe is from this thread as was the paste based sauce recipe.  Bake time was 12 minutes at 489 degF:

I am still learning the Chicago thin style.  Made 4 pizzas on Saturday for a gathering.  A thin and crispy, Chicago thin, NY style, and a Detroit style.  The crispy, NY and Detroit met my marks for acceptability.  I am questioning my Chicago thin...as I am not experienced in this style.

Out of the oven, I gave it about a 4 minute rest on a cookie rack.  Then cut it.  It appeared very flexible and soft.  The crust seemed to stiffen up at about 7 or 8 minutes out of the oven and seemed better.  Is this characteristic of this style?

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 13, 2015, 10:27:57 AM
Did you do a 72-hr rise?  What was it baked in/on?

When I do a no-knead, 72 hr (up to 96 hrs), baked directly on a stone until the crust is nice and browned, this turns out crispy/crunchy on the bottom and softer towards the sauce.  I always rest it 6-7 mins on a rack before cutting.  TBH, I don't know how the resting phase affects anything.  It's just what I do, out of habit.  I let it rest it long enough so it's cooled down for eating.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: bigMoose on April 13, 2015, 03:19:33 PM
I did a 48 hour rise and 2 hour warm to room temperature.

However... I did cut it round and bake it in a dark hard anodized cutter pan (nothing riding up the lip of the pan.)  I did sauce and cheese it to the rim.  The PSTK pan went onto a preheated stone.  I think, as you said, you cook right on the stone.  That was likely the change that effected the crispness.

... I will hunt through the trash and try to find the "build notes" on the subject pie.  Always an ISO9000 paper trail in my kitchen!  :-D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 13, 2015, 07:17:39 PM
I've never been able to cook a thin crust pizza in a pan that turned out anything but too blonde and too soft.  Others swear by that stuff for their own recipes.  Not mine.

Heck, I'm not trying to talk you into liking the pizza or anything.  Some people don't.  But 72 hrs is better.  Try the no-knead version, if you're interested.  And direct on the stone is probably a major difference.

For any other tips I'd have, I'd probably need to see pictures.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on April 13, 2015, 11:01:16 PM
Dave, all Chicago joint s do it different....some pans on an old school steel deck....others on a stone deck without pan.   Your pstk pan is my style and crust bottom is soft.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 14, 2015, 08:34:04 AM
I think the one thing that is consistent across all sub-types of Chicago thin is really good sausage.  The pizza has to have it.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Mad_Ernie on April 14, 2015, 09:21:31 AM
I did a 48 hour rise and 2 hour warm to room temperature.

However... I did cut it round and bake it in a dark hard anodized cutter pan (nothing riding up the lip of the pan.)  I did sauce and cheese it to the rim.  The PSTK pan went onto a preheated stone.  I think, as you said, you cook right on the stone.  That was likely the change that effected the crispness.
 :-D

I think you managed to figure it out.  I would try leaving out the cutter pan next time and place the pizza directly onto a well pre-heated pizza stone.

-ME
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on April 15, 2015, 02:28:05 PM
I think the one thing that is consistent across all sub-types of Chicago thin is really good sausage.  The pizza has to have it.

    ^^^  If you don't have that you are out of business....fast.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Johnny the Gent on April 16, 2015, 10:56:08 PM
Been following this thread for a while - one of the best on the forum, IMO.

Followed Garvey's recipe purty darn close, but couldn't bring myself to add over 5% oil. 3 days cold fermentation. Topped with homemade sausage. 300 gm doughball, 170 gms mozzarella, 160 gms sausage - next time I'll weigh the sauce. Loved it!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 17, 2015, 06:14:18 AM
That is one beautiful pizza.  Great pictures.  Love the tiny bubbles on the edge of the crust.  That is a sign of proper fermentation.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on April 17, 2015, 08:19:43 AM
Awesome!!   :drool:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on April 17, 2015, 08:25:35 AM
Great looking pie right there! Garvey's Chi town is right at the top of my fave pies. I'm doing another DMP test pie tonight, but wish I was making a Garvey thin. Next pie for sure.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Johnny the Gent on April 17, 2015, 08:43:58 AM
Garvey- thank you for sharing with us how to make Pizza Factory pies! I baked this pie in a heavy steel pan (greased) on the middle rack at 300 deg celsius. I have a couple more d.balls that I will bake on Saturday directly on the stone- looking forward to it.

Thanks Chicago Bob! Next time I'm going to add more sauce and top to the edge. ChiTown thin baby!

Nick- I agree, I like the versatility of the dough. Makes for a great thin crust pizza pie :pizza:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mudman on April 17, 2015, 09:06:16 PM
Awesome pie!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on April 18, 2015, 07:35:07 AM
I have a couple more d.balls that I will bake on Saturday directly on the stone- looking forward to it.

 Next time I'm going to add more sauce and top to the edge. ChiTown thin baby!

Nick- I agree, I like the versatility of the dough.

  Nice to see you want to experiment. I really think the top to the edge and stone bake turns out great too...especially if it runs over a bit and gives the burnt crispies on the edge. Thatsa niiice!   :drool:

Good luck Johnny (even though you don't need it  :chef:  )
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on April 19, 2015, 09:26:02 AM
Man oh man that last pic Johnny is awesome.  I'll be dreaming about it for the next few weeks.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Johnny the Gent on April 19, 2015, 01:41:12 PM
Thanks Nate!

The 6 day CF Garvey dough ( with only 5% oil) baked on the stone came out great. I am not sure which pie I liked better- the pan baked or stone baked pie.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Johnny the Gent on April 19, 2015, 02:03:08 PM
And the last doughball, baked on a greased, heavy steel pan. Homemade fennel sausage and fresh mushrooms. Garvey's formula is great at 3 days, and at 6 days.  :pizza:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 19, 2015, 02:42:46 PM
Oh, man.  Six days?  How did it behave?  Obviously, the pictures look amazing.

I love the oblong one, too.  Maria's in Milwaukee makes a pie like that.  I've never been, but I've heard good things.  It's on my list if I ever make it up there.

Thanks for posting these!

Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Johnny the Gent on April 19, 2015, 03:52:35 PM
Thanks Garvey. The dough was very easy to work with- I hand opened both pies, just as I would a NY dough and had no tears/problems. Doughballs were very ripe, slightly gray in color and nearly 2.5X the original size.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on April 19, 2015, 09:16:04 PM
I have to make the 3 day no knead recipe again.  It just takes so long to ferment.  I remember it being in my top 2 though.

Nate
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Johnny the Gent on April 19, 2015, 09:38:11 PM
I have to make the 3 day no knead recipe again.  It just takes so long to ferment.  I remember it being in my top 2 though.

Nate

Coincidence- I just placed a blob of dough in the fridge to bulk ferment - 4 dough batch that will be prepared via the no-knead method again. It is also one of my favorite doughs.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: bigMoose on April 20, 2015, 10:36:54 PM
Just redid the pie that I posted on a few posts above (post 381 & 383).  This time I baked it on a stone at 485 defF.  Difference of night and day.  Much, much better shell layer crispness!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Mad_Ernie on April 22, 2015, 10:51:12 AM
Just redid the pie that I posted on a few posts above (post 381 & 383).  This time I baked it on a stone at 485 defF.  Difference of night and day.  Much, much better shell layer crispness!

Great!  Glad it worked out well for you. ;D

-ME
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: HansB on April 24, 2015, 10:22:48 AM
I have my first Garvey dough ball CFing right now. It'l be ready tomorrow, can't wait to see how it compares to a DKM crust. It sure handles much better!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on April 24, 2015, 11:13:16 AM
The DKM crust is a different animal. Garvey's is not a cracker, it's softer, thicker and has some chew. It's one of my favorite crusts. If I could only eat one style, I would choose a Chi town thin.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on April 24, 2015, 11:21:16 AM
If I could only eat one style, I would choose a Chi town thin.

That's what my wife would say for sure. I would be standing a long time trying to pick between 3-4 kinds, always have a different crave for different reasons :-\ ??? :-D

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: TheRailroadBulls on April 24, 2015, 11:29:27 AM
Pardon my ignorance on this topic, but Chicago thin style is one of the few styles I am unfamiliar with. In the pictures it looks similar to a New Haven style?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: TheRailroadBulls on April 24, 2015, 11:32:27 AM
I've been making this exact recipe for almost 11 years.  It was developed by a buddy and me back in the summer of 2001.  We had to make and eat this pizza no less than five times a week that summer--tough work, but somebody's gotta do it--just to get it down pat.  It is based on a long-gone childhood pizzeria known as Pizza Factory.  There are many similar Southside/Chicagoland/Calumet Region pies like this, but this was our favorite as kids.  We had to reverse engineer every bit of the flavor profile based on memory, and then we tested it out on family and friends for confirmation.

Once we had it nailed, we went as far as to bag it up, drive it around the block, and deliver it to ourselves before eating--just for full fidelity with the childhood experience.  This picture is from 2001 (me on the right, back when I still had hair).  [Recipe to follow.]

You mentioned "Calumet". Is that Calumet, Michigan? Cause here in Michigan we have a place called "The Pizza Factory" (though, not in Calumet to my knowledge), so if they had branches in Michigan then perhaps they still exist and just closed the location near you?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: TheRailroadBulls on April 24, 2015, 11:36:01 AM
anikun07:

Use any whole milk mozz you can find. 

If you have a GFS near you, their standard blocks of whole milk Mozz are pretty good, and in my area, only runs about 15 bucks per 6 lbs. Their provolone is even better, weighing in at almost the same price, 16-17 bucks per 6 lb block.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mudman on April 24, 2015, 09:30:22 PM
If you have a GFS near you, their standard blocks of whole milk Mozz are pretty good, and in my area, only runs about 15 bucks per 6 lbs. Their provolone is even better, weighing in at almost the same price, 16-17 bucks per 6 lb block.

I just purchased a 6lb plus block of whole milk mozz from Costco Business Center, for $1.81 per pound.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 27, 2015, 02:17:49 PM
You mentioned "Calumet". Is that Calumet, Michigan? Cause here in Michigan we have a place called "The Pizza Factory" (though, not in Calumet to my knowledge), so if they had branches in Michigan then perhaps they still exist and just closed the location near you?

The Calumet Region is the Southside of the Chicago metro area (sort of (http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/2488.html)).

I am sure there are a few places with the name of Pizza Factory.  The one I knew was a one-off.  Owner lost the place in a divorce.

Thanks for the heads up, though.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: TheRailroadBulls on April 27, 2015, 03:08:11 PM
I just purchased a 6lb plus block of whole milk mozz from Costco Business Center, for $1.81 per pound.

I wish we had one of those. I hear guys on here talk about getting Pendleton products, good cheese, etc at the Costco business places... and the standard Costco around here has nothing like that. They have Ninas tomatoes and that's about it.... and even that is nothing special really.. :-/ Oh well, such is life!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on May 10, 2015, 09:00:46 PM
After seeing all these great pies, I broke down and made your Pizza factory pie, my fave pizza. I've been Jonesing one for quite a while. It was as good as I was expecting. In the past I was afraid of using Contadina tomato paste. If you don't use it right, it can be an overpowering flavor and in not a good way. I have been using Great Value crushed tomatoes and your spices till now. It tasted great. Today I took a chance and used the paste. I was happily surprised. The heat changed the flavor profile. Luved it!! I will stick with your sauce recipe. I used Premio sausage  with some added crushed fennel and sweet anise. It was good, but I like your sausage recipe better.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Johnny the Gent on May 10, 2015, 09:18:25 PM
Mighty fine looking pie, Nick! :pizza: :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on May 10, 2015, 09:27:41 PM
Nice pie, and mail received, like it a lot!

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on May 10, 2015, 09:53:04 PM
Excellent pizza Nick.  Love the color contrasts

Nate
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: jvp123 on May 10, 2015, 09:57:27 PM
After seeing all these great pies, I broke down and made your Pizza factory pie, my fave pizza. I've been Jonesing one for quite a while. It was as good as I was expecting. In the past I was afraid of using Contadina tomato paste. If you don't use it right, it can be an overpowering flavor and in not a good way. I have been using Great Value crushed tomatoes and your spices till now. It tasted great. Today I took a chance and used the paste. I was happily surprised. The heat changed the flavor profile. Luved it!! I will stick with your sauce recipe. I used Premio sausage  with some added crushed fennel and sweet anise. It was good, but I like your sausage recipe better.

I can't tell you how much I love the look of this .. WOW!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 11, 2015, 09:07:03 AM
After seeing all these great pies, I broke down and made your Pizza factory pie, my fave pizza. I've been Jonesing one for quite a while. It was as good as I was expecting. In the past I was afraid of using Contadina tomato paste. If you don't use it right, it can be an overpowering flavor and in not a good way. I have been using Great Value crushed tomatoes and your spices till now. It tasted great. Today I took a chance and used the paste. I was happily surprised. The heat changed the flavor profile. Luved it!! I will stick with your sauce recipe. I used Premio sausage  with some added crushed fennel and sweet anise. It was good, but I like your sausage recipe better.

Thanks for the kind words.  That's a beaut you cooked up right there.

It's funny you should mention the paste--and Contadina, specifically.  It took an entire summer of making pizza 3x-6x/wk to nail down that sauce.  We had to go on memory of a defunct place and constantly tweak the herbs and spices to get the right flavor profile.  And to be honest, it tastes a certain way with Contadina that it doesn't with other pastes.  Believe me: we tried them all.

Glad you liked it.

Cheers,
Garvey 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on May 11, 2015, 10:13:49 AM

That's the way ya do it....nice work Nick!  8)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on May 11, 2015, 10:18:08 PM
Thanks Garvey! Your recipe was straight forward and easy to follow. Knowing that Chi Town pies are a local love, my friends that have tried your pie and love it. The crust, toppings and spices create an amazing flavor profile. I enjoy all the styles of pizza that the great pie masters here have shared with me, but I am partial to to Chi Town Thins. A good beer, a retro move and a slice makes for a perfect evening.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Johnny the Gent on May 13, 2015, 07:46:55 PM
What a pie! 7 day CF Garvey dough (with 3% oil). Sliced, raw shitake shrooms, homemade pork sausage and diced green bell pepper.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: deb415611 on May 13, 2015, 07:54:02 PM
What a pie! 7 day CF Garvey dough (with 3% oil). Sliced, raw shitake shrooms, homemade pork sausage and diced green bell pepper.

beauty, I'm going to have to try this recipe as soon as i'm back from vacation
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mudman on May 13, 2015, 09:30:13 PM
You all are doing some wonderful pies from this recipe. Time for me to give it a try/.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on May 13, 2015, 10:11:59 PM
What a pie! 7 day CF Garvey dough (with 3% oil). Sliced, raw shitake shrooms, homemade pork sausage and diced green bell pepper.

I did the same combo a few weeks ago with the addition of celery sliced thinly on a long bias. Celery is a very under rated pizza topping, and boss lady likes it that way :-D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: tpayne03 on August 30, 2015, 02:23:20 PM
Hi guys,

I am from Chicago, 31 years old.  This recipe is spot on. 

I measured the ingredients using a food scale.  Cheapo-Walmart all purpose flour.  Decent Chicago style pork sausage.  Whatever store brand Mozzarella and some decent whole-milk Sargento brand mozzarella.

I mixed the dough for 20 minutes in a bread maker.  Let it sit for 24 hours.  Degassed it and split it.  I literally just put the two dough blobs on a plate in my fridge and let it sit for 48 more hours.  At ~hour 70, I pulled the dough out and let it come to temp for two hours.

The sauce I thought had a touch too much fennel and thyme too my taste, but the ratio of paste to water is right on the money.  I honestly loved the sauce with the Contadina though.  I thought the seasoning was a touch strong, but the base is phenomenal.  Well done!

I heated my gas oven up to 485, left out of my dough for ~2 hours, rolled out (with a rolling pin) my crust, put it on a crisper sheet (no stone!), and baked it for ~15 minutes per pie.  It was overcooked a touch at 15, I would shoot for 12 minutes next time.  I was worried about the stone, but the results were on-point.

I took raw sausge and smashed it flat and cooked completely through in the 15 minute bake cycle.

I literally could open a pizza joint and sell this pizza all day long in Chicago.

Garvey, Rahm Emmanuel should be giving you a key to the city!  This is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on August 31, 2015, 01:18:58 PM
Ha!  Thanks for the feedback, tpayne03.  Glad you were successful.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Smithco41 on September 06, 2015, 11:45:49 PM
Garvey, thank you so much for this recipe I love it
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Deepdisher on October 06, 2015, 07:27:51 PM
Garvey, thanks for sharing that recipe. Im excited to try it. Im a chicago south sider so grew up on Vito and Nicks or Nick and Vitos as some incorrectly call it. Haha  hey I was wondering if you use 100% flour or do use any semolina flour in the dough? I use about 25% semolina in my deep dish dough. Also I have a hard time converting the percentages to actual useable measurements like 1/2 cup, tbsp., etc. do you have any recommendations on how i can learn to do that or what the method is? Or formula? Im assuming its just me because everyone seems to post in percentage which makes sense for accuracy.
Thanks for any help and sorry for all the questions but you seem to be the go to guy. Chicago Bob has recommended your dough recipe and sauce recipe also a while back. Thanks again.
Kevin
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on October 08, 2015, 09:09:16 PM
Kevin:

I don't use any semolina in this dough--just regular all-purpose flour.

I'd strongly recommend buying a simple digital kitchen scale, which would be like $10-15 on Amazon, at Walmart, etc.  It's the one thing you can do to really step up your pizza game to the big leagues.  It's really essential, not a luxury.  (The second thing to step up your game is to really learn your oven and how different pizzas bake in there in different spots, varying temps and times, etc.)

Barring that, you can find an online converter that will give you a "best guess" to convert from weight to volume for the ingredients.  But I wouldn't really recommend that. Why do I say that?  First of all, flour volume can vary greatly by brand, humidity, etc.  Secondly, everyone measures volume of flour different.  Dip and scoop vs filling with spoon will yield vastly different results.  And if three people made this recipe using volume, you'd end up with three different doughs. 

If you do try to make dough this way, you'll have to adjust for how the dough feels.  My advice is that you want the wetness of the dough to be just at the very edge of being sticky without actually being sticky.

Sorry, I just don't have or use a volume-based recipe. 

Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on October 08, 2015, 11:40:41 PM
Just to add to what Garvey said....deep dish Chicago and thin crustvare really 2 completely different dough styles, not even close in my mind. As far as his comment on volume vs weight using a scale.....I would go as far as EVERY PERSON using volume would have different results on any given day rather than 3. Some will argue that, sometimes they are right, but baking is baking, scales work, guessing is guessing.

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: woodmakesitgood on October 10, 2015, 10:40:47 PM
I made a version of this recipe, it came out pretty good...I hope I'm eating Pizza Factory right now!
The texture of the crust was interesting, crispier near the edge with a little chew on the rest of the crust.
The bake was about 475 stone for 11 min.
I would have like a bit darker bottom, but my woeful oven would have overcooked the rest if I went longer. Thanks Garvey for sharing your labors.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on October 11, 2015, 05:33:20 PM
That looks absolutely perfect!  Glad you liked it.

You can try placement in the oven for different effects.  Lower should cook the crust faster.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: woodmakesitgood on October 11, 2015, 06:06:36 PM
That looks absolutely perfect!  Glad you liked it.

You can try placement in the oven for different effects.  Lower should cook the crust faster.

Thanks! I was thinking about that.
I have the baking steel on the lower rack, so I think I'll start the next pie there and move it up to the stone if the bottom is getting too dark.
Also, more sauce next time.  :drool:

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on October 11, 2015, 10:13:44 PM
Yes, it should be a saucy pie, for sure!  That's true to type.

And you're right about how to bake it: start low and finish high. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Deepdisher on October 12, 2015, 05:10:07 PM
Garvey and Jackitup, thanks for the replies and the help. After i posted that i was thinking, i bet the only way to accurately convert is using a scale. I will definitely purchase a scale. I thought about making a dough roller too but never got around to that.   ::)  Jackitup you are right, deep and thin are totally different. I make a very similar Unos pizza and its totally different then my thins. Not sure where you get your sausage but theres a little italian grocery store around 7200 w. Belmont. Their garlic sausage is unreal. Everything there is amazing but i have heard they supply many restaurants with sausage and one of them was voted best sausage in the city of chicago. If youre up that way, do yourself a favor and try it. Thanks again for the help. Ill post pictures of my pie next time.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on October 16, 2015, 05:21:13 PM
Garvey makes his own sausage, and it's great!! Look at his post, he has a link at the bottom that takes you to his recipe. Garvey's thin Chi style is one of my favorites.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: 2stone on October 16, 2015, 08:26:49 PM
Nice, real nice.

http://mobile.oakpark.com/Dining/Blogs/10-7-2015/Maybe-You-Actually-Don't-Like-Neapolitan-Pizza-/
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on October 17, 2015, 08:19:48 PM
^I'll never turn down a Neapolitan pizza, but if I had to pick between Neapolitan and Chicago style thin, I would take the Chicago thin hands down.  :-D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on October 18, 2015, 06:17:05 PM
i am the same way!  chicago thin is my fav of them all!  but ill never turn down another type!! especially hot and fresh!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on October 18, 2015, 06:38:51 PM
Hard to compare them, apples and oranges almost. If I went to a place that did both well, I would order both!

jon
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: sodface on January 10, 2016, 10:31:32 PM
I made a batch of this dough on Thursday morning.  Split the dough at 24 hours and made one pizza Friday night, so about 32 hours after it first went into the fridge.

I use the 14" Lodge cast iron pizza pan with pretty good results most of the time so I used it again with this.  While I followed Garvey's dough directions I decided to try the new 14" pizza screen I just bought (even though he says not to!) - the screen fits *exactly* into the recess of the Lodge pan so I took that as a sign.  I rolled out the dough to 14" and then sprinkled with flour and semolina and then rolled it one more time.  Flipped the dough semolina side down on to the screen and then screen on to the cast iron which was preheated to 500 and then turned the oven down to 450 for the bake.

I'd read the threads on seasoning the screen but I chose to ignore the advice there, so I was kind of expecting a disaster.  Not so, I had no problem getting the pizza off the screen.  I was pleased with the results but the crust wasn't as crisp as I would have liked.

I made the second one tonight (Sunday) so about 80 hours after initial dough prep.  Didn't have any toppings to work with so I just made a cheese pizza, with thinly sliced provolone directly on top of the skin, sauce over that, then a mix of mozz and english cheddar.  The pic is of the second one.  This time I docked the dough (even though Garvey says not to!), mainly because I just bought the docker and wanted to use it.  Same method as before except for the docking.

Really enjoyed it but still want a crispier crust.  Next time I'll try it without the screen and put it right on the cast iron.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: drmatt357 on January 16, 2016, 12:29:04 AM
Try with the screen only and no pan.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: sodface on January 18, 2016, 10:16:07 PM
Garvey crust #3 I tried screen and no pan as suggested.  Result was similar to the first two, not crispy enough.  Garvey #4, pictured, was straight off the peel onto the pan, and though it's not even close to being a circle, the crust was really crisp and overall we enjoyed it very much!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 19, 2016, 12:14:49 PM
   Looks great!!   :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 07, 2016, 05:26:58 PM
Superbowl Pizza Factory

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on February 07, 2016, 08:55:28 PM
oh yeah!!  looks awesome as usual Garvey!  made a thin crust tavern style in a pan today!  yum yum!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on February 07, 2016, 09:40:56 PM
here's some pics!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on February 07, 2016, 09:41:40 PM
a couple more.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on February 07, 2016, 09:55:56 PM
last one!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on February 08, 2016, 11:00:17 AM
Damn, Mojo Man.  I am hungry looking at that.  Nice work.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on February 08, 2016, 03:45:37 PM
not nearly as stellar as yours  and all your recipes Garvey!!  but i do appreiciate the kind words and all the help you have given me!!!!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: notoriousFOZ on March 13, 2016, 01:11:39 PM
This formulation was a hit with the family.  Thank you Garvey!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on March 13, 2016, 02:42:34 PM
that looks awesome!  Garvey's recipe is totally awesome!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mpdavis on April 01, 2016, 11:17:12 AM
I have been using Garvey's recipe as my go-to and I think I have started to get the hang of it.

http://i.imgur.com/ou2Ae2M.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HZIgqC2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Ov5jFcI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jxFw8oV.jpg
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on April 01, 2016, 10:24:27 PM
oh man!!  looks awesome!!!  great job!!  Garvey's recipe is awesome!!  its a no fail!!!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Killa Joe on May 01, 2016, 07:11:47 AM
Looks like a simple easy recipe, nice! I will have to try this for my early pizza maybe before I attempt Craig's NP pizza.

My question (No I did not go through all the posts here assuming it will not be answered in them)..... When the dough is sitting in the fridge for 48 to 72 hours, WHAT TEMP IS THE FRIDGE SUPPOSE TO BE AT DURING THIS 2 TO 3 DAY PERIOD?  ???

I like to keep my fridge really, really cold. brrrrrr, and not sure if it will prevent the dough from developing properly. Thanks.


KJ  8)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 01, 2016, 06:51:24 PM
When the dough is sitting in the fridge for 48 to 72 hours, WHAT TEMP IS THE FRIDGE SUPPOSE TO BE AT DURING THIS 2 TO 3 DAY PERIOD?  ???

It's supposed to be at refrigerator temperature.  ;D

35įF-39įF.  Ish.  YMMV.  A couple degrees won't matter.  The idea of a cold ferment is to slow things down--i.e., mid- to high-30s--instead of fast rises at room temp.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Killa Joe on May 01, 2016, 07:03:27 PM
It's supposed to be at refrigerator temperature.  ;D

35įF-39įF.  Ish.  YMMV.  A couple degrees won't matter.  The idea of a cold ferment is to slow things down--i.e., mid- to high-30s--instead of fast rises at room temp.

Thanks! That is cold....  :o     ;D


KJ  8)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: RogerC on July 17, 2016, 03:27:28 PM
I was born and grew up in Illinois until the age of 19 when I joined the military (Air Force), not the Chicago area however I am from Alton near St Louis Mo.  I do not remember ever having any pizza like this.  My only thin crust memory from that period was Pizza Hut thin and crispy.

First a big thanks to Garvey for all the time and effort for this recipe.  I made the dough and sauce exactly to recipe.  The sausage I made according to the Kenji recipe for sweet linked in this thread.

That being said... I'm eating Pizza Factory!

This is one of four pizzas I made this weekend.  72 hour dough.  I did have to scale them down to 12 inches to fit on my stone using the dough calculator.  Oven preheated 550 for 1 hour turned down to 450 to bake for 12 minutes.

The dough is crispy yet chewy with a crackery taste, the sauce is savory and herby and the sausage is mild and tasty.  I used shredded mozz as the base cheese applied the sausage the applied a 50:30:20  blend of Galbani skim mozza, white cheddar, provalone

Thanks again Garvey this is good pizza!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on July 17, 2016, 08:01:28 PM
Oh man!! Nice job!!! That looks delicious!!!   Garvey's recipe is phenomenal!!  And it looks like you did him proud!!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: PizzaPap on July 18, 2016, 01:23:09 PM
I made my first Chicago thin Saturday using Garvey's recipe.

My wife & I both loved it.
I made one pepperoni & one Sausage, onion, & banana pepper.
Baked in the Blackstone oven.

I didn't use the Garvey sauce because I wanted to try making my own sauce for the first time. (His is probably better. ;) I was not impressed with mine)
Nevertheless they were both very, very good.
The dough was a pleasure to work with.
I par baked the skin for 4 minutes at 500F.
Bottom stone was about 600F at launch, cooked for 96 seconds.

My best ever thin crust endeavor by far.
Thanks Garvey!  (By the way my wife sliced the pizza. I told her she is a barbarian. :P :P)

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: etruscum1 on December 04, 2016, 07:34:00 PM
First try with Garvey's Aurelio clone.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on December 05, 2016, 01:02:51 PM
Aurelio's clone?  You mean this one (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=19680.0), from another thread?  How'd it taste?

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: etruscum1 on December 11, 2016, 02:21:41 PM
That is the link. 48 hrs in the fridge. 2 hrs room temp and the dough opened nicely. Stone in low oven IR'd at 525. Red November MAE sauce. Chellinos scamorza and sliced whole milk mozzarella. Will roll thinner next time. Great texture to the dough. Forgot to dock and popped lots of bubble.
Thanks to the community at large as you all have increased my knowledge and appreciation of good pies!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: bigMoose on December 15, 2016, 08:37:02 AM
In case some new member goes looking.  Red november's Microwave Assisted Extraction #2 sauce is described here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3735.msg32136#msg32136
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on December 15, 2016, 11:57:22 AM
In case some new member goes looking.  Red november's Microwave Assisted Extraction #2 sauce is described here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3735.msg32136#msg32136

Tarragon?  In pizza sauce? 

Um, no.   (What's next?  Ginger in the dough?  :-D )

The rest of it sounds great, though.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: theGreenSurfer on December 29, 2016, 05:16:21 PM
I resisted the paste for years, now I'm sold...  I followed the measurements exactly except for fennel.
Dough bulk rise for 24 hr then balled and into the fridge for 48.
Using cold water in the dough really made the crust taste and perform better.

Thanks to Garvey for a great recipe.
I did 2 variations....one in a cutter pan and one parbaked on a screen. Both went directly on stone after the crust firmed up enough to slide.  I liked the screen version better.

Cutter pan:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: theGreenSurfer on December 29, 2016, 05:24:23 PM
Screen:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on December 30, 2016, 04:16:05 PM
your pizzas look awesome!!!!  garvey's recipe is one of the best around!!!!  i too have been going back to paste again lately!! 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: invertedisdead on December 30, 2016, 10:56:55 PM
I've had the best results with cooking down my own paste from blended crushed tomatoes. Richer and less metallic tasting IMO.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on December 31, 2016, 07:23:20 PM
A Very Pizza Factory New Year to You All!

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on January 01, 2017, 02:48:41 PM
I resisted the paste for years, now I'm sold...  I followed the measurements exactly except for fennel.

Fennel is really one of THE key ingredients for the Pizza Factory flavor profile.  It's not PF without it, but glad you liked it otherwise.

Many people are paste haters.  It's what Pizza Factory used, so I use it.  A lot of Southside mom-n-pops shops use it because it simply takes up less space (i.e., smaller cans mean $$$ saved when your rent is by the square foot or you have a small shop to begin with).  Oddly enough, if you look at the ingredients on the side of a can of tomato puree, most of it nowadays is just paste and water. 

I did 2 variations....one in a cutter pan and one parbaked on a screen. Both went directly on stone after the crust firmed up enough to slide.  I liked the screen version better.

I've never really been able to get any of my thin crust variants to come out right in a cutter pan.  I have some nice, heavy, seasoned, blackened ones.  They look gorgeous and seem perfect for pizza, but the crust always stays way too blonde and I have to remove the pizza and finish it directly on the stone anyway.  Weird.

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on January 01, 2017, 03:56:16 PM
I resisted the paste for years, now I'm sold...  I followed the measurements exactly except for fennel.

Is it the "seed" or the "taste" of the fennel you dislike. If it's the seed thingy, grind it, buy it ground or try anise seed (smaller) or ground or also can be bought in a pollen form I think too. But I agree with Garvey, need that fennel/anise taste, just don't overwhelm it

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on January 01, 2017, 04:00:02 PM
Also like thin sliced, caramelized fennel bulb on pies. Can be a little fibrous so slice thin if using raw or as mentioned caramelized or precook before putting on pie....my2Ę
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: renchero on January 01, 2017, 08:17:53 PM
PIZZA FACTORY RECIPE

I. DOUGH

For each 14" pie, you'll need a 300 g dough ball.  Here is the recipe for two (because who in their right mind would make only one pizza? ;-))

AP Flour (100%):
Water (50%):
IDY (.5%):
Salt (1%):
Oil (8%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (160.5%):
Single Ball:
373.83 g  |  13.19 oz | 0.82 lbs
186.92 g  |  6.59 oz | 0.41 lbs
1.87 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.62 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
3.74 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.67 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
29.91 g | 1.05 oz | 0.07 lbs | 6.65 tsp | 2.22 tbsp
3.74 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.94 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
600 g | 21.16 oz | 1.32 lbs | TF = .06875
300 g | 10.58 oz | 0.66 lbs | TF = .06875

Make dough 48-72 hrs ahead (absolute minimum is 24 hrs.; my personal preference is 72; still great after 96 hrs), kept in fridge until a couple hrs before baking.  Punch down as needed during the first 12-24 hrs.  I like to separate out the dough balls after the first 24 hrs. of rising as one mass.

When making the dough, dump all the dry ingredients into the mixer bowl, stir to combine, and then add the liquids.  Mix until it the dough comes together, and then let it sit for 20 minutes, covered, to hydrate.  Resume with kneading until windowpane stage (5-10 mins).

II. SAUCE

Most recipes on this site fail to give sauce recipes.  Well, you're in luck.  Here's mine. Makes enough for two pizzas (or maybe a little more than two, depending on your preferences).

12 oz. can Contadina tomato paste
3/4 c. water
1/2 tsp. salt
1/2 tsp. black pepper
1/4 tsp. onion powder
1/8 tsp. garlic powder
1 tsp. thyme
1/2 tsp. basil
3/4 tsp. oregano
1 1/4 tsp. marjoram
1 tsp. fennel seed
1/2 tsp. McCormick Italian Seasoning
3 dashes paprika
1/2 tsp. sugar

Mix all ingredients together in a small or medium sized bowl, making sure to crush the leaves and seeds between your fingers as you add them, so that the essences of the spices are released into the sauce.  Mix well. 

Make sauce on day of baking and leave at room temp.  (If made too far ahead and refrigerated, the cold plus all the dried leaf herbs thicken the paste too much so that you will have to mix some water back in to get it to spreadable again.)

[NOTE ABOUT SPICES: Use dried spices, and use spices that are in the form of dried leaves, not the pulverized, "ground" varieties, except for salt, pepper, and the garlic and onion powders.]

OK, I admit that this may seem fussy with so many specific herbs and spices listed and even brand names.  Trust me: try it this way.  BTW, many Southside joints use tomato paste as the base, so I'm surprised more folks don't talk about that here.  And for whatever reason, Contadina is the best paste for this particular recipe.  Hunts and others just don't work nearly as well.  And since this is a saucy pie, there is a big difference.

III. ASSEMBLY

Roll out your 300 g dough ball to 14", which is just under the size of a typical pizza stone. The pizza will cook directly on the stone--no cutter pan or screen or anything. (I have lately been assembling on foil on the peel, just because I'm lazy and that's easier and less messy to slide onto the stone than cornmeal. Do whatever way you like, but you should not pan the pizza.)

Top with sauce.  I like to go pretty heavy.

Add sausage (ideally), raw and flattened out a bit, or however you like it.

Add any veggies or other toppings.

Top with about 6 oz (by weight) of shredded mozz; if you really want more, that's fine, but don't put more than 8 oz. (if you are using pre-shredded stuff, it's about 1 1/2 c to make 6 oz by weight)

IV. BAKING

Preheat a baking stone to 500į for one hour and reduce to 450į before putting in the pie.  (I like putting my stone on an upper rack, but you know your oven and local conditions better than I do.  I only know my oven.)

Carefully slide the assembled pizza onto the hot baking stone.  Bake at 450į for about 10 minutes (or 9-13 minutes, depending on your oven and your desired doneness).

When the cheese starts to brown and the crust looks golden, remove from oven and let stand on a cooling rack for 6-7 minutes before cutting.  [NOTE: The cooling rack is a key step, since it lets air under the crust to cool it and allow steam to escape; otherwise, if left on a pan, the crust will soften and no longer have that the desired texture on the bottom.  If you do not have a cooling rack, jury rig something.  At the very least, you can cool the pizza on cheap, non-waxy paper plates, which I have used with some success, since they are porous.] 

Of course, you'll need to slide it back onto a pan for cutting, which you see pictured in my profile and below.

"Party cut" only!  The square party-cut style is mandatory--never the more barbaric pie-cut. 

And thenÖ
YOU'RE EATING PIZZA FACTORY!

Feel free to download the txt file of this recipe, pasted below the picture.

Just made it tonight. It was awesome. I'm from Northern Illinois and am a big fan of the Chicago thin crust (been living in Texas now since 2008 though) and this was an incredible recreation!  Thanks for sharing. I'm keeping this in my pizza recipe box.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: theGreenSurfer on January 02, 2017, 08:45:35 PM
Fennel is really one of THE key ingredients for the Pizza Factory flavor profile.  It's not PF without it, but glad you liked it otherwise.

Many people are paste haters.  It's what Pizza Factory used, so I use it.  A lot of Southside mom-n-pops shops use it because it simply takes up less space (i.e., smaller cans mean $$$ saved when your rent is by the square foot or you have a small shop to begin with).  Oddly enough, if you look at the ingredients on the side of a can of tomato puree, most of it nowadays is just paste and water. 

I've never really been able to get any of my thin crust variants to come out right in a cutter pan.  I have some nice, heavy, seasoned, blackened ones.  They look gorgeous and seem perfect for pizza, but the crust always stays way too blonde and I have to remove the pizza and finish it directly on the stone anyway.  Weird.

I'm all for the fennel, I just didn't have any on hand at the time. When I do add it to my sauces I would typically use a coffee grinder for it..
I'll definitely be keeping this recipe in my rotation. As far as paste-hating goes....it's funny how most of it comes from people using just a different form of canned tomatoes.

I agree about the pans,  laminated dough is the only kind I can get a somewhat decent browning. Maybe it has something to do with trapping moisture underneath...?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: drmatt357 on March 31, 2017, 10:51:16 PM
My latest and best to date, Chicago thin. I guess like Aurelio's but also used Garvey's dough... kinda.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on April 03, 2017, 02:37:16 PM
Looks awesome!!!!!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Mmmph on July 05, 2017, 11:42:32 AM
PIZZA FACTORY AGAIN!

I love the sauce, and the texture.

Made two cutter pan 16 inch Italian Sausage, Red Onion, Hot Banana Peppers here.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: PizzaManic on July 06, 2017, 05:58:16 AM
Phew!!! That looks darn good.

Would you mind sharing some details on the bake especially the dough?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: csnack on July 06, 2017, 09:10:56 AM
Phew!!! That looks darn good.

Would you mind sharing some details on the bake especially the dough?
I don't know if Mmmph did anything different than the original, but this post has the dough/sauce recipe from the OP   https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=17662.msg171274.msg#171274
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Mmmph on July 06, 2017, 09:52:34 AM
Phew!!! That looks darn good.

Would you mind sharing some details on the bake especially the dough?

I followed Garvey's original dough and sauce formulation. I use a cutter pan, however.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: csnack on July 06, 2017, 12:01:58 PM
I followed Garvey's original dough and sauce formulation. I use a cutter pan, however.
I was gonna use a cutter pan (American Metalcraft refers to them as CAR pans) as well. There's mostly just hate here for brands like Contadina and Hunts, but sometimes a particular brand just fits best for a specific recipe so I'll definitely try it. I've never tried Contadina anything, but I personally don't think Hunts is as awful as most here.

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: invertedisdead on July 06, 2017, 10:51:07 PM
I tried a can of Hunts organic crushed recently and I thought they were really fresh tasting.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on July 10, 2017, 05:15:11 PM
PIZZA FACTORY AGAIN!

I love the sauce, and the texture.

Made two cutter pan 16 inch Italian Sausage, Red Onion, Hot Banana Peppers here.

Dude, those look awesome.  Nice work.

I've never had luck with cutter pans.  Glad you know how to use them, because I clearly don't. 


Would you mind sharing some details on the bake especially the dough?

lol.  This is probably one of the most detailed recipes in the forum.  That said, "Know thine oven."  Baking varies from kitchen to kitchen, so the recipe is a rough guideline of what I've found to work for me and the equipment I have, give or take.  When I make this pizza at a different place, I have to vary what I do.  However, this style of pizza is fairly forgiving.  It's not a 53-second bake Neapolitan pizza or anything.


There's mostly just hate here for brands like Contadina and Hunts, but sometimes a particular brand just fits best for a specific recipe so I'll definitely try it. I've never tried Contadina anything...

I've made this recipe with just about every kind of paste out there, and Contadina is simply the one that works for this recipe, as you said.  Everything else is "off."


Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on July 10, 2017, 08:53:43 PM
PIZZA FACTORY AGAIN!

I love the sauce, and the texture.

Made two cutter pan 16 inch Italian Sausage, Red Onion, Hot Banana Peppers here.

yeah!!  those look awesome!!  nice work!!!  Garvey's recipe rules!!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: csnack on July 10, 2017, 09:25:01 PM


I've never had luck with cutter pans.  Glad you know how to use them, because I clearly don't. 

Why hasn't the cutter pan worked for you? What ends up happening with your results using it? I think Tom said a cutter pan with some oil in it with some decking under the pan, where "decking" in this case I believe is a stone, is what I he recommended I think, though I haven't tried any of the thin crusts yet. I suppose it comes down to what works in a specific oven as well idfk.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: CDNpielover on July 11, 2017, 12:22:10 AM
That pie looks great, except it only has about half of the requisite cheese to be a true Midwest thin crust.   :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on July 11, 2017, 11:39:19 AM
Why hasn't the cutter pan worked for you? What ends up happening with your results using it? I think Tom said a cutter pan with some oil in it with some decking under the pan, where "decking" in this case I believe is a stone, is what I he recommended I think, though I haven't tried any of the thin crusts yet. I suppose it comes down to what works in a specific oven as well idfk.

The cutter pans I have are beautifully seasoned, heavy-ish pans from a restaurant.  The crust just stays too blonde and takes forever.  I really have no need for cutter pans: I just thought they might make things easier.  There are cutter pan people, screen people, foil people, and cornmeal-dusted (or semolina-dusted) peel people.  I stick with the latter two.   Foil if I'm feeling lazy.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on July 11, 2017, 11:41:20 AM
That pie looks great, except it only has about half of the requisite cheese to be a true Midwest thin crust.   :chef:

Haha.  Yeah, my recipe calls for 6-8oz.  I just got back from up there and was reminded of just how cheese-heavy a lot of places go.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on August 25, 2017, 12:49:07 PM
4800+ g of Pizza Factory dough.  Pizza party tomorrow.  It's been cold fermenting ahead of the big day.  Will hit the 72-hr mark at dinner time.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on August 25, 2017, 01:41:10 PM
4800+ g of Pizza Factory dough.  Pizza party tomorrow.  It's been cold fermenting ahead of the big day.  Will hit the 72-hr mark at dinner time.

Looking forward to the party pics! Can't remember, do you have a BS or are you doing them on a stone in the house??
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on August 25, 2017, 03:41:50 PM
Haha--yeah, on a two-stone setup in the house (gas oven).  Luckily, Chicago thin is pretty forgiving of the temperature swings.  Wish I had a Blodgett in my kitchen.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on August 25, 2017, 06:43:07 PM
4800+ g of Pizza Factory dough.  Pizza party tomorrow.  It's been cold fermenting ahead of the big day.  Will hit the 72-hr mark at dinner time.
that is one party i wish i was invited to!!!!  lucky guests!!!!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: PizzaManic on August 28, 2017, 06:54:35 AM
Hey Garvey

How's that for coincidence - I plan to make this on Saturday and what more to ask for than an update from the Man himself - the PIZZA FACTORY GURU so don't forget to post back some AWESOME pics ;D :drool:

Don't forget to include some details if you can

Take Care
Mo
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: jvp123 on August 28, 2017, 12:23:53 PM
4800+ g of Pizza Factory dough.  Pizza party tomorrow.  It's been cold fermenting ahead of the big day.  Will hit the 72-hr mark at dinner time.

Do you mix that much dough at home in small batches? 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on August 28, 2017, 12:35:21 PM
Haha--thanks, Mo.  After getting the house and yard ready for the party on Friday and then making 12 pizzas on Saturday and 4 more on Sunday, I can honestly say I hurt!

What I would do differently next time when making this many pizzas:
(1) Buy pre-shredded cheese.  I wanted to use whole milk mozzarella, which means shredding my own.  Yes, I have a food processor, but it was 8 lbs., which was still a serious chore.  And since I didn't buy it until the day of the party, I didn't have time to partially freeze it properly to help with shredding and keep it from smearing too much.
(2) Buy a Blodgett and a sheeter.   :chef:
(3) Make my own sausage. I really just ran out of time, but I did use the one kind of sausage I've found that is very good, which is from Whole Foods.  It's just not as good as mine.
(4) Ball the dough ahead of time.  I always do this but didn't this time.  The bulk ferment might have changed the dough a little.  It was really good.  Nice crunch.  But it was a little different.  Hard to explain.  Part of that would also be due the next item.
(5) Resist the urge to roll out the dough too early.   As you can see in this first picture, I created foil rounds and then rolled and stacked dough.  That way, I could focus on assembly and baking when the time came.  But I was making pizzas for hours.  I did dock each dough round before assembly, to try to deflate them a bit, but they retained some of the rise a little.  I probably could have been more aggressive with that.  Turned out very crisp and crunchy on the bottom, though.  It was great.  Just different.  I thought I got an upskirt shot of a baked piece, but I didn't.  It had that craters-of-the-moon look that Aurelio's has and DD has sometimes. 


[NOTE: I didn't cook in that cutter pan shown in the last two pix: it was used for serving only.]



Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on August 28, 2017, 12:42:52 PM
Here are the pizzas made the day after, with freshly rolled but with the dough now at the 96-hr mark.  Delicious.

I left more end crust than normal for a couple of reasons.  On day one, it was because of quick(-ish) assembly and just making life easier by leaving a margin of error.  Also, the whole milk mozz was soft and clumpy and didn't allow me to be the artist I'd normally try to be with topping to the edge.

On day 2, I was a little short on sauce and toppings and had to stretch what I had.

The 96-hr dough doesn't get as much browning, but it was crunchy and tasty.  There mustn't be much left in the way of sugars for browning.  The crust has a tiny hint of sourdough to it as this point.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: invertedisdead on August 28, 2017, 02:13:00 PM
Looks like a few good days of pizza eating!

I actually found some pre-shredded whole milk mozz just a couple weeks ago from Grocery Outlet, which came in handy for a little pizza party I threw together. I usually never see whole milk either, so I figured it was worth trying.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on August 30, 2017, 07:57:56 AM
Garvey!!  Pizzas look awesome!! I can relate on the cheese shredding!!!  For some reason that is one hell of a chore after a while!!  I cant believe how many pizzas you made!!!  You are the man! I bet your friends loved it!!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on August 30, 2017, 10:48:05 AM
Thanks, man.  It was crazy and physically taxing but a lot of fun, too.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on August 31, 2017, 07:59:26 PM
Great pics. Gonna make 2 different style of pies for Saturday's OU football party. One of them is gonna be your PIzza Factory clone. We have a place in town that makes Chicago pies deep dish and thin. Their thin tastes almost like yours. All of my friends only go for the deep dish, so I am going to see how they like Chi Town thin. I already started with the dough today, the real trick is baking. The pies bake at different temps. Will cook yours last because of the lower cooking temp.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on September 01, 2017, 10:31:11 AM
Will cook yours last because of the lower cooking temp.

You bake your deep dish at higher than 450?

I've done thin at everything between 400 and 500, depending on recovery between pies, etc.  It'll work, no matter what.  I'd start with thin, TBH.  Hard to start with a casserole and move on from there.  A party cut thin is a good appetizer. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on September 01, 2017, 07:51:56 PM
  Whew! Just got through making your Italian sausage, and the sauce. First time I tried your Pizza Factory clone I was blown away. It will be interesting to see what my friends think.  My other pie will be my NY style crust. I will cook the NY style first at 550 degrees on the stone. After it is done, I will drop the oven temp to 450 degrees and let the stone come back to temp, then bake the pie. 450 degrees seem to be the perfect temp for my oven. For the crust, I made it using my food processor. I pulsed till the dough just came together. I hand shaped it and threw it in a baggie and am letting it go for 48 hours. Yum, will post pics. Never made a deep dish, don't know if I am ready for that challenge. Don't think it would quite as good as a Chi Town  pie.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on September 02, 2017, 08:25:51 PM
Just as I thought. They liked my NY style. But Garvey, they really, really, liked your Pizza Factory pie. Can't blame em' I am partial to your pie also. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on September 03, 2017, 12:07:16 PM
It's my favorite pizza, too!

 :D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: bobgraff on December 31, 2017, 05:11:49 PM
Hat tip to Garvey.  Great pizza!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jimmygee on January 10, 2018, 12:01:33 AM
Awesome pizza, Garvey! Signed up just to post my 48hr pizza in appreciation to your dedication. The best I've made yet!

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: invertedisdead on January 10, 2018, 05:35:25 PM
Awesome pizza, Garvey! Signed up just to post my 48hr pizza in appreciation to your dedication. The best I've made yet!

One hell of a first post! Thanks for sharing and welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on January 10, 2018, 09:08:49 PM
Garvey's is one of my fave styles to make. Good looking pie.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on January 10, 2018, 10:55:28 PM
man that looks good!!   damn!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: fugo on January 11, 2018, 09:06:41 AM
This is a great and versatile recipe.  I've done the full recipe with dough, sauce and sausage several times and loved it.  Last night I did something different.

My Blackstone regulator froze-up in the cold so I used the opportunity to work on my cast-iron Chicago thin.  Heated 14" cast iron on middle rack of my oven for an hour. Pan was 535 when removed from oven. Quickly put rolled out Garvey's Pizza Factory dough, 4 day CF in pan and dressed it with my NY-style sauce (Sclafani crushed tomatoes, oregano, basil, garlic powder, marjoram, salt, pepper, little olive oil) and Galbani WMM mixed with a little bit of oregano. I used the old pie maker's trick of rolling the dough onto a rolling pin and then unrolling into the pan instead of trying to drape the opened skin directly into the pan. Topped with red onion, green pepper and pepperoni.  Back into oven at 450 for 12 minutes.  Came out great - crispy bottom and edges, not cracker crust.   Recharged the pan and made a plain pie that came out great too, especially with a few red pepper flakes on top. Neither pie lasted too long.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on January 11, 2018, 10:49:29 PM
looks delicious!!!!  nice pies!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: invertedisdead on January 11, 2018, 10:55:32 PM
Yeah!! THIN IS IN!  :D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Hermit on January 12, 2018, 09:49:59 AM
That pepperoni bell pepper is calling me  :drool:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: fugo on January 12, 2018, 11:24:48 AM
Thanks fellas.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 07, 2018, 02:01:20 PM
Daughter had 15 people over for her birthday and wanted me to make pizza.  No problem!  (Wishing I had a Blodgett in the house, though.)


Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on April 07, 2018, 03:26:42 PM
oh man!   pro as always!!!!
Title: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: renchero on April 08, 2018, 07:10:16 PM
Daughter had 15 people over for her birthday and wanted me to make pizza.  No problem!  (Wishing I had a Blodgett in the house, though.)

You prep those with aluminum foil?  Howís that work?  Iíve never seen that before.

By the way, they look awesome. :)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: sodface on April 08, 2018, 10:29:42 PM
You prep those with aluminum foil?  Howís that work?  Iíve never seen that before.

By the way, they look awesome. :)


I was wondering about the foil too.  And I agree, they look awesome.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 10, 2018, 09:21:28 AM
You prep those with aluminum foil?  Howís that work?  Iíve never seen that before.

By the way, they look awesome. :)

Thanks!  I was out of town and had my daughter make the dough.  It was pretty good, but she accidentally used canola oil instead of corn oil, and it had a little less than 48 hrs of cold ferment.  But really, I'm just being picky.

I use the foil for launching pies instead of dusting the peel with cornmeal (or semolina).  I used to do cornmeal, and it's always a bit of a mess, and sometimes a spot of dough might bind on the peel where there wasn't enough cornmeal, and cornmeal would get into the bottom of the oven and burn, etc.  One day back when I was in grad school almost 20 years ago, I went to order a pizza at a mom-n-pops thin crust shop and saw that they would put dough through the sheeter and then plop them onto foil and stack them up a few at a time.  Then they'd assemble and launch on the foil, removing it during cooking.  Eureka!   The cornmeal problem was solved!  And when my dough has been properly cold fermented, I can roll out several dough balls and stack them on the foil rounds.  The mom-n-pops shop was often a one-man show, just like when I make pizza for a party.  This really speeds up the process and allows me to separate rolling as its own task and assembly as its own task.

I roll out the dough on the wooden peel and then transfer it to the foil.  I cut the foil to the size of my pizza stones, so I can press the dough out all the way to the edge if I want.  This has led to bigger pies and greater uniformity.  Takes out the guesswork.

In my oven with my two-stone setup, I start on the low stone and finish on the high.  I cook the pie until nearly done on the low, and then pull the pizza off the foil and set it on the top  stone to finish for a few minutes.  This browns the crust and the cheese.  This also lets the bottom stone recover a little before the next pie goes in, and the top stone stays pretty hot, since it never sees a cold pie.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Mad_Ernie on April 10, 2018, 10:46:41 AM
Thanks!  I was out of town and had my daughter make the dough.  It was pretty good, but she accidentally used canola oil instead of corn oil, and it had a little less than 48 hrs of cold ferment.  But really, I'm just being picky.

I use the foil for launching pies instead of dusting the peel with cornmeal (or semolina).  I used to do cornmeal, and it's always a bit of a mess, and sometimes a spot of dough might bind on the peel where there wasn't enough cornmeal, and cornmeal would get into the bottom of the oven and burn, etc.  One day back when I was in grad school almost 20 years ago, I went to order a pizza at a mom-n-pops thin crust shop and saw that they would put dough through the sheeter and then plop them onto foil and stack them up a few at a time.  Then they'd assemble and launch on the foil, removing it during cooking.  Eureka!   The cornmeal problem was solved!  And when my dough has been properly cold fermented, I can roll out several dough balls and stack them on the foil rounds.  The mom-n-pops shop was often a one-man show, just like when I make pizza for a party.  This really speeds up the process and allows me to separate rolling as its own task and assembly as its own task.

I roll out the dough on the wooden peel and then transfer it to the foil.  I cut the foil to the size of my pizza stones, so I can press the dough out all the way to the edge if I want.  This has led to bigger pies and greater uniformity.  Takes out the guesswork.

In my oven with my two-stone setup, I start on the low stone and finish on the high.  I cook the pie until nearly done on the low, and then pull the pizza off the foil and set it on the top  stone to finish for a few minutes.  This browns the crust and the cheese.  This also lets the bottom stone recover a little before the next pie goes in, and the top stone stays pretty hot, since it never sees a cold pie.

Cheers,
Garvey

Cool!  8)

Now that you mention, Garvey, I think I have seen some place use the foil technique that you described, but I can't remember where it was.  Great idea!  Thanks for the play-by-play.  This definitely worth pursuing, especially if you are dealing with multiple pies like you were in this instance.

Muchos gracias,

-ME
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 11, 2018, 11:20:58 AM
This definitely worth pursuing, especially if you are dealing with multiple pies like you were in this instance.

It's one of those things that, once you try it, you probably won't go back to the old way.  It's just too damn easy.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: renchero on April 11, 2018, 11:23:08 AM
And I guess with that 50% hydration, you really wouldn't have much of an issue with spring back either.  That sounds pretty cool.  Prep, then just top as you go.  Nice stuff.  Thanks for sharing! 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 16, 2018, 06:36:18 PM
And I guess with that 50% hydration, you really wouldn't have much of an issue with spring back either. 

Depends on how long the cold ferment is, ambient temp of the kitchen, how long between initial rolling and baking...but yeah, this dough isn't going to go crazy or anything.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on April 19, 2018, 08:17:58 PM
  Wow! It looks great. That's a lot of sausage. I have been wanting to do that, but thought it would look like I was a pig. I'm going for it next time. Was afraid to place the sausage under the cheese, but after seeing your pics, I got it. My friends that have tried my take on your Pizza Factory clone love it. Thanks for sharing. :drool:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 22, 2018, 12:17:09 PM
  Wow! It looks great. That's a lot of sausage. I have been wanting to do that

Haha--I was thinking it really could've used more.   :D

Some places go even heavier.  If I had time, I would've done the crumble sausage in addition to the chunk.   :-D

Quote
Was afraid to place the sausage under the cheese, but after seeing your pics, I got it.

Most pizzerias do it this way, under the cheese.  I like to put down maybe a 1/3 of the cheese, and then the sausage, and then the remainder of the cheese.  I like the cheese to be properly browned, too.  I always use high quality sausage: I either make my own or lately have been getting it from Whole Foods.  Word to the wise on Whole Foods sausage, which was supposedly formulated at their Chicago store and shared the recipe chain-wide: buy it same day, if possible, but no more than 24-hrs ahead.  Without preservatives, it seems to have a small window of optimum freshness.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on April 29, 2018, 04:51:08 PM
I tried several different store bought sausage, and I'm  done. Your's is easy to make and tastes great. One batch is enough for four pies, I just freeze the portions. It's good for about two months, and it's pre-weighed which makes it easy come pie making time.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 30, 2018, 12:07:11 PM
I tried several different store bought sausage, and I'm done.

Where I live, I cannot find a store brand that doesn't ruin the pizza (except for Whole Foods).  I've tried Aldi, Premio, Johnsonville, etc., and they're all terrible.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on April 30, 2018, 09:14:11 PM
tried whole foods this weekend but it wasn't fresh...smelled off.  was slimey(bad sign)  cooked it but we tossed it......very frustrating....will have to start making our own again......
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 01, 2018, 07:42:30 AM
tried whole foods this weekend but it wasn't fresh...smelled off. 

Lame.  You should've returned it.  Did you buy the bulk (uncased) or cased?  Get the bulk.  It will be fresh to the eye for the butcher when he wraps it and to you, too.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on May 01, 2018, 09:14:47 PM
my wife got the cased...dammit....i was so excited too!!! 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: HalfSmoke on May 05, 2018, 06:33:30 PM
Garvey, youíre a hero. Truly a south side prince! Made this in hopes of finding something close to what I grew up with in Lansing - Colucciís - also delivered in bags. Nigh upon perfect. The crust, the spicy tomato paste based sauce. Your sausage was spot on too. FINALLY found that flavor Iíve been looking for but never found. The white wine in the sausage nailed it.

Question: how many pies have you done with one batch of sauce (one 12 oz. can of tomato paste)? Based on what I had leftover, Iím guessing 3-4.


Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 06, 2018, 12:47:28 AM
Nice looking pizzas, and thanks for the kind words!

What size pies are those?

My sauce recipe covers two 14-15" pies, give or take.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on May 06, 2018, 01:47:30 AM
those look very tasty!!  nice job!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: HalfSmoke on May 06, 2018, 07:32:18 AM
Nice looking pizzas, and thanks for the kind words!

What size pies are those?

My sauce recipe covers two 14-15" pies, give or take.

Really? Wow! Those were two 14Ē from 300g dough balls. Pretty well sauced up to about the Colucciís level I remembered, but sounds like I can crank it up a bit. I probably used about 2/3 of the total amount of sauce.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: HalfSmoke on May 06, 2018, 07:36:46 AM
those look very tasty!!  nice job!!

Thanks much! Definitely tasty. Iím still smiling to have finally brought a bit of south suburban Chicago to Northern Virginia!   ;D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 06, 2018, 05:16:16 PM
Really? Wow! Those were two 14Ē from 300g dough balls. Pretty well sauced up to about the Colucciís level I remembered, but sounds like I can crank it up a bit. I probably used about 2/3 of the total amount of sauce.

If it seemed balanced and you liked it, then having 1/3 leftover doesn't sound off the mark.  I've stretched that recipe to cover 3 before, where one isn't quite as saucy. 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: HalfSmoke on May 06, 2018, 05:54:50 PM
If it seemed balanced and you liked it, then having 1/3 leftover doesn't sound off the mark.  I've stretched that recipe to cover 3 before, where one isn't quite as saucy.

Well, looks like weíre doing another pile of these (4!) for Motherís Day weekend by popular demand. Iíll sauce them a bit thicker next time around and see what everyone thinks. My guess is there will be no complaints.  :)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 06, 2018, 10:30:18 PM
Nice!

I think if I were doing 4, I'd make 1.5 batches of the sauce.  That'll do ya.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jimmygee on May 11, 2018, 04:26:13 AM
Just a quick question.. after punching down and then halving the dough, do you reball or just leave it how it is after punching down and cutting? Not sure how I would be able to reball if you say you do lol
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 11, 2018, 07:59:13 AM
Just a quick question.. after punching down and then halving the dough, do you reball or just leave it how it is after punching down and cutting? Not sure how I would be able to reball if you say you do lol

I don't understand the question.
 
(1) Bulk ferment (i.e., as one, single, giant mass) for 12-24 hours. 
(2) Punch down the dough.
(3) Separate into 300g balls.
(4) Resume cold fermentation until you're ready to make pizza.

If you follow the weights correctly, you shouldn't need to punch it down again.

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jimmygee on May 11, 2018, 10:46:06 AM
I don't understand the question.
 
(1) Bulk ferment (i.e., as one, single, giant mass) for 12-24 hours. 
(2) Punch down the dough.
(3) Separate into 300g balls.
(4) Resume cold fermentation until you're ready to make pizza.

If you follow the weights correctly, you shouldn't need to punch it down again.

Yeah. I didn't do the no knead version so I kneaded it for 15 mins and then balled the bulk. 24 hours later I then cut the bulk in half into 300g halves but I didnt attempt balling them as I felt as though it would be too hard to ball them whilst being so cold. Do you find it easy balling them at that temperature? I might take one out and give it a go

Also I might aswell add that following all measurements to the exact, I'm never able to get it to window pane. Any advice? I've tried kneading for different amounts of time.. but yeah.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jimmygee on May 11, 2018, 10:52:46 AM
I should probably try things before asking! Just took them both out and balled them easily.  :-D :chef: Thanks Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 11, 2018, 03:12:15 PM
Don't worry about the window pane.  It's overrated.   :D

Chicago thin is really very forgiving.  The hydration level and the amount of oil should make it easy to work with. 

 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on May 15, 2018, 06:26:43 PM
 Made your Pizza Factory clone, yum! I tried something different. I used your sausage recipe, but instead of just using fennel I did a 50/50 mix of fennel and anise. It gave it a nice flavor. I added some red pepper flakes to your sauce. It made  the pie a little spicy and I liked the heat. I did cover the sausage with cheese. I used 7 oz of sauce, 6.5 oz cheese and 9 oz sausage, and I did not feel like a pig. :drool:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on May 15, 2018, 11:10:24 PM
 :drool:  :drool:  :drool:

Nailed it!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on May 15, 2018, 11:17:06 PM
GODDAM that looks awesome!!!!! 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vcb on July 03, 2018, 07:53:06 PM
Thought you guys might appreciate this new design I put up in my RDD CafePress shop.
https://www.cafepress.com/realdeepdish
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jimmygee on July 05, 2018, 09:40:59 PM
No knead version came out amazing. Yet to try the full recipe with sausage though

For the second pizza, I spread the cheese out further to the edges to stop the cheese from completely coming off every slice after each first bite and it worked good
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jimmygee on July 05, 2018, 11:14:48 PM
Garvey, do you have any other dough recipe's you have made over the years or any other thin crust dough's that you like to use?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on July 06, 2018, 11:50:57 AM
Garvey, do you have any other dough recipe's you have made over the years or any other thin crust dough's that you like to use?

Looks like your pizza turned out great!

I've diddled around with a few other recipes, but this is the one I make all the time.  There is a "sticky" post of all the different thin crust formulations here, if you want to try some others.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Benjamin on August 18, 2018, 08:53:30 AM
First attempt using my new pizza tools cutter pan, the dough stuck to the stone counter so there was quite a bit of patch work getting it to the pan, I tried to roll it onto the pin but it didn't want to cooperate. LoL

I need to do this one by itself so I can give it my full attention next time, I still have the other dough ball in the fridge. The thin and cracker styles give me the most trouble for some reason, and the nearly politans.

I think I'm going to either get a piece of plywood to work on or a roll of large parchment to transfer the dough, or both... probably both.

Thanks for the recipe and to everyone who contributed to this GREAT thread.

I'll try the no knead next.

ETA: I also need a better scale, pretty sure my yeast measurements are all over the place.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Benjamin on August 18, 2018, 09:06:45 AM
nick57's pizza above is definitely what I'm shooting for.... looks so good.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on August 18, 2018, 09:41:06 PM
Yeah, I don't know how your crust ended up that thick.  What was the weight of the dough ball and what was the size of your pizza?

As far as sticking goes, use more bench flour as you roll.

And try baking it right on a stone, no pan.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on August 19, 2018, 12:02:50 AM
Scale is a must for consistent, repeatable results! Best to have 2, one in grams and one in tenths of a gram.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Benjamin on August 19, 2018, 12:28:27 AM
Yeah, I don't know how your crust ended up that thick.  What was the weight of the dough ball and what was the size of your pizza?

As far as sticking goes, use more bench flour as you roll.

And try baking it right on a stone, no pan.

It wasn't thick, except the rim where I crimped it. It was probably thinner than a nickel, maybe too thin.

I've had the problem with sticking before on the granite counter top, I guess not enough flour, I'm going to try parchment because it's cheaper than foil and pull it mid bake using a stone.

Unless you're talking about the detroit pizza in the background? Or maybe it just looks thick because of the ground beef, their was quite a bit of beef on it.

Anyway, I just got the cutter pan yesterday... I had to use it.  :D

The dough ball was 265g and yeah, a 14 inch pan but that's all the AP flour I had. I should have skipped that pan to begin with.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Benjamin on August 23, 2018, 08:02:37 AM
I made the other dough ball yesterday, I still think I may have mis weighed something but this was much better using the parchment trick to get it on the peel and into the oven. I just used a piece of .25 steel since the pizza was oblong and fit the steel that was already in the oven. The steel was 488F.

Cheese was shredded Jack, LMPS mozz, and a little Asiago.

Sauce was 6 in 1 that I should have drained better but seasoned like the recipe on the first post. Next time I'll use Contadina paste, I already have the no knead dough in the fridge for Saturday.

Sausage went on raw.

I still have a hard time getting thin crust rolled out round but I'm going to work on it, I probably should have made more dough and traced a circle with a cutter, cheating IOW.

I still have a ways to go but the pizza was really good.



Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on August 23, 2018, 01:01:23 PM
Looks tasty.  Nice "circle."   ;D

What is the issue you're having with rolling?  Are you sort of new to baking and just need practice?  It gets easier.  You may want to try a tapered dowel rolling pin.  That changed my game.  Way easier, IMO.   
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: jsaras on August 23, 2018, 03:44:23 PM
Rolling from edge to edge works MUCH better than from the center out.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Benjamin on August 23, 2018, 09:17:58 PM
Looks tasty.  Nice "circle."   ;D

What is the issue you're having with rolling?  Are you sort of new to baking and just need practice?  It gets easier.  You may want to try a tapered dowel rolling pin.  That changed my game.  Way easier, IMO.   

I'm really new to baking, coming off a year of low carb meat and veggies mostly... lost 90+ lbs after I got in a car wreck and had to change careers and kind of start over, but baking never was my thing even before that.

I guess that's why I have mostly stuck to styles that use a pan and shape and rise the dough in the pan like a Detroit. The stretch and fold is way easier handling wise and the fried crust is so damn good.

Believe it or not I used a tapered rolling pin on this and then just said screw it halfway to a circle and went oblong... LoL

I need A LOT of practice, my NY have mostly turned into calazones or had a ridiculously large rim.

I'll get it, stay tuned... The crunch on yours from what I can guesstimate is better than a cracker but what I'd like is some lamination eventually.

Thanks for the great recipe.  :)

ETA: The parchment transfer worked great, I may try foil.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Benjamin on August 23, 2018, 09:36:46 PM
Rolling from edge to edge works MUCH better than from the center out.

I need a good video on that, I'll find some. I got some free 16" perforated cutter pans from work, not really sure what to do with those other than the Papa Johns clone?

Probably better asked in the noobe or general section, I'll ask there. I notice they aren't used much except with conveyors.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on August 24, 2018, 08:34:31 AM
This one isn't bad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR14W_cV_Lg
But something I do is flour and flip the dough frequently while rolling, ideally just before it starts to stick to the pin.

This one is better and explains the action pretty well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqmh_NLq3-w




Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: denj3325 on August 30, 2018, 09:51:09 PM
I didn't get amazing browning my first time around with this recipe. Has anyone tried adding diastatic malt powder?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on August 30, 2018, 10:01:14 PM
I didn't get amazing browning my first time around with this recipe. Has anyone tried adding diastatic malt powder?

Did you use a stone, stone temp, oven temp.....
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: denj3325 on August 30, 2018, 11:47:29 PM
Did you use a stone, stone temp, oven temp.....

I used a 1/4 in homemade steel. Oven temp was set to 500 for an hour, then switched to 450 for baking. Steels were placed on the middle rack. I will take a few pics of the setup and before /after for more detail when I try again this weekend. I usually get problems were the outer crust doesnít seem to brown very well before the toppings get over cooked. I usually end up adding diastatic malt to my ďNY styleĒ to help with that, but that dough doesnít use sugar.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on August 31, 2018, 12:07:34 AM
You should be in the ballpark
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on August 31, 2018, 12:11:18 AM
What type of flour are you using?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on August 31, 2018, 03:06:34 AM
listen to garvey.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: denj3325 on August 31, 2018, 09:20:51 AM
What type of flour are you using?

I am using King Arthur AP flour.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on August 31, 2018, 01:32:40 PM
DMP makes the crust soft (https://www.pizzatoday.com/departments/in-the-kitchen/dough-doctor-on-the-rise/), so rather than changing the chemistry of a tried-and-true recipe, let's look at other factors where you may have deviated from the the protocol. 

Don't know anything about steel.  Or about KAAP.  You pre-heated the steel, right?  I'm assuming you followed the recipe correctly otherwise.

TBH, if you've had this same kind of problem with other styles of pizza, then it sounds like the problem is with how you are using your oven.  For one thing, you might want to ditch the steel and get some baking stones--two of them.  I place one stone on a low rack and one stone on a high rack.  The low stone cooks the crust faster, and the high stone cooks the toppings faster.  I tend to start a pizza on the low stone and finish it on the high one.  Maybe that would work with steel, if you have two of them.  (Again, however, steel ain't my thing.)

"Learn thine oven" is the biggest game changer for making pizza.  I'd focus efforts on learning how your oven works for baking different kinds of pizza.  Take notes.  Maybe get thermometer to make sure the internal temp is what you think it is, etc.  Then you can stop trying to change recipes to fit your oven and just adjust your baking accordingly.

I've made this pizza in convection ovens, gas ovens, electric, old, new, beat up ovens in a shack in the woods, and they have ALL turned out great. Chicago thin is very forgiving.  You just gotta learn your oven.  Hope this helps!!!  Cheers!   :chef:

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on August 31, 2018, 02:36:06 PM
I was just going to mention getting an oven therm, good call. Most people would be surprised how far off their ovens are!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on August 31, 2018, 02:36:55 PM
Also, are you using a scale?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: vcb on September 01, 2018, 02:11:28 PM
Quote
... outer crust doesnít seem to brown very well before the toppings get over cooked.

Try moving your middle rack down one or 2 levels, and consider putting a sheet of heavy duty aluminum foil across the top rack.

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: denj3325 on September 01, 2018, 05:36:15 PM
For one thing, you might want to ditch the steel and get some baking stones--two of them.  I place one stone on a low rack and one stone on a high rack.  The low stone cooks the crust faster, and the high stone cooks the toppings faster.  I tend to start a pizza on the low stone and finish it on the high one.

Do you have any reccomendations on pizza stones? I don't know if there are "better" pizza stones than others.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: denj3325 on September 01, 2018, 07:16:58 PM
Also, are you using a scale?

I think that getting an oven thermometer would be a good idea. Additionally, I do use a scale 1 gram accuracy for large quantities 0.01 gram accuracy for smaller quantities.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on September 01, 2018, 09:42:16 PM
Do you have any reccomendations on pizza stones? I don't know if there are "better" pizza stones than others.

I've been using stones of varying quality for 30+ years, and my only advice is to get some.  They're all fine.  Just run down to Target or something and grab two for $20-30 total.

Peace.

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on September 01, 2018, 11:51:00 PM
You will not regret getting a Fibrament! https://bakingstone.com peruse the site, thicker is better if you are going to make more than 1 pie, better heat sink and recovery time. You can also get a custom cut one, to the size of your oven. Leave a little room for air flow, an inch or so. Cordierite is also a good choice. Some like round ones, I prefer square ones, they offer more area and versatility for breads, etc.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: denj3325 on September 12, 2018, 07:10:05 PM
Try moving your middle rack down one or 2 levels, and consider putting a sheet of heavy duty aluminum foil across the top rack.

This last weekend I moved my rack down 1 level and it definitely helped! I might try down 1 more and see what happens. What does the aluminum foil do?

On a separate note, has anyone here tried freezing the dough? It would be nice to make one large batch of dough and then just thaw when needed, because this has become my go-to pizza.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on September 13, 2018, 03:48:12 AM
Yes! I make big batches.  after 1st punch down and then 2nd rise I then divide and ball and zip lock and put in the freezer.   I take out when I want to use it let it thaw and then use it. Thin crust or deep dish the frozen dough has always made delicious pizzas in my opinion!   
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on September 13, 2018, 12:38:55 PM
This last weekend I moved my rack down 1 level and it definitely helped! I might try down 1 more and see what happens. What does the aluminum foil do?

On a separate note, has anyone here tried freezing the dough? It would be nice to make one large batch of dough and then just thaw when needed, because this has become my go-to pizza.

I don't know about the foil, so maybe Ed can elaborate on that recommendation, but here is some science behind rack positioning in the oven from Kenji at Serious Eats (https://slice.seriouseats.com/2011/02/which-oven-rack-should-i-put-my-pizza-stone-on.html).

tl/dr version:
The most important being that the position of your oven rack can have a great bearing on your final results. Have you always wondered why the bottoms of your pies seem to burn before the top turns golden brown? All you've got to do is bake them on a higher rack. Is the crisp crust of your mac & cheese turning black while the bottom of the casserole is still ice cold? You're baking it too high!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on September 29, 2018, 10:23:00 PM
oh man!   pro as always!!!!
   

      Yep, my kinda pizza.   :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on September 29, 2018, 10:36:33 PM
How you been Bob???
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on September 30, 2018, 06:58:49 PM
How you been Bob???

    Faaaaantastic jon....got a life back an things have never been so great; I got lucky....I'm blessed.

Thank you for asking about me man!  8)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on September 30, 2018, 07:25:54 PM
geez bob!  ive been worried about you.  glad you are alright!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on September 30, 2018, 08:47:35 PM
geez bob!  ive been worried about you.  glad you are alright!

     Thank you Mr. Mo !  8)

 I have lost 110 lbs of beer fat over this past 12 months.....but I haven't given up on my pizza(no nevah), I just like to make sure it's a good one when I do indulge.  :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on September 30, 2018, 08:56:33 PM
     Thank you Mr. Mo !  8)

 I have lost 110 lbs of beer fat over this past 12 months.....but I haven't given up on my pizza(no nevah), I just like to make sure it's a good one when I do indulge.  :chef:

Awesome brother!!! Don't lose tooo much, gotta keep some chub to cuddle with! Still with the girlfriend?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on October 01, 2018, 10:39:18 PM
thats great Bob!!!  good for you!  i bet you feel a lot better!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on October 02, 2018, 11:46:44 PM
Awesome brother!!! Don't lose tooo much, gotta keep some chub to cuddle with! Still with the girlfriend?
   

    Oh yes jon, still with The German....we've been engaged for going on something like 28 yrs. now.  :-[     If it ain't broke.....

Thanks for remebering/asking.  8)

How's The Warden do'in?  ;D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on October 03, 2018, 12:07:04 AM
thats great Bob!!!  good for you!  i bet you feel a lot better!!

   Yes sir...I sure do thanks.  ;)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on October 03, 2018, 02:33:48 AM
   

    Oh yes jon, still with The German....we've been engaged for going on something like 28 yrs. now.  :-[     If it ain't broke.....

Thanks for remebering/asking.  8)

How's The Warden do'in?  ;D

Doing great, both retired awhile now and taking care of our granddaughter! Youngest is 2.5yo and got her pretty much potty trained now and sassier than shtt, just a hoot!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on October 05, 2018, 11:43:10 PM
Doing great, both retired awhile now and taking care of our granddaughter! Youngest is 2.5yo and got her pretty much potty trained now and sassier than shtt, just a hoot!!

                    8)     
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on October 15, 2018, 11:18:09 AM
This 60-second video is of my buddy Dave who you'll note is in post #1 of this thread as co-reverse-engineer of this recipe.  Thought y'all might get a kick out of it.  It's his application for the Ooni thing.

Facebook video [you'll need to TURN SOUND ON :D]:
https://www.facebook.com/dave.long.547/videos/10215654258244022/

Twitter video [same thing]:
https://twitter.com/PizzaExpatriate/status/1051127007927521281

Like/share/retweet if that floats yer boat.  Enjoy!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: mrmojo1 on October 15, 2018, 08:40:22 PM
thats awesome!!!  i hope he wins!!  so cool he showed more pics of you guys in your pizza factory quest!!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on October 15, 2018, 09:33:27 PM
 My friends wanted me to try for the tester position. I explained to them that after doing some research they were going to want someone with the video editing skills and willing to do some blogs of their experiments. I told them there were a lot of friends on the forum that would be better at this, though I do like to experiment with different styles of dough and try to make improvements. Norma would be a good choice as well as others and you. I shared your video with my friends to show them what I was talking about. I let them know your Chi thin crust is one of my faves on the forum and that they had sampled it a few times on game day. Hope Dave gets picked, but if not I am curious to see who they choose and what they produce.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: bobgraff on October 16, 2018, 07:51:50 AM
Thanks for sharing Garvey!  I always wondered if your partner-in-crime was still making pizzas...
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on January 05, 2019, 02:03:04 PM
Cranking up the pizza factory today, so to speak.   :chef:

Got ten dough balls coming out of cold fermentation.  Sauce and sausage are made.  Cheese is weighed and portioned.  Veggies are all prepped.





Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on January 05, 2019, 05:30:20 PM
First of eight today.  I held back two dough balls for football tomorrow.  Bearce!

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 09, 2019, 12:13:49 PM


    Most excellent looking pizza right there...... :chef:   :drool:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: pythonic on January 11, 2019, 11:14:33 PM

    Most excellent looking pizza right there...... :chef:   :drool:

Ditto!  Canít get pizza like that in Pitt.  I miss it and the sausage dearly.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Brewer on January 15, 2019, 12:01:05 PM
Hello All.  I have wanted to try making Garveyís Pizza Factory clone recipe for some time now.  After reading the entire thread over several times I decided to give it a shot.  It has instantly become one of my most favorite pizza recipes to make.  Over the last two months I have made it over a dozen times.  It is truly outstanding!  I have followed it exactly to Garveyís instructions.  It really is a dream formulation to me.  For the newbie pizza maker itís absolutely perfect!  I found that with a lower hydration dough, and a thicker sauce than what Iím use to, itís so forgiving in the assembly and launch process.  The pizza floats on the peal with minimal peal dust, and the thicker sauce from the paste doesnít bleed onto and under the rim like crushed tomatoes tend to do more readily.  Storage for leftovers really shine!  After a couple of days the undercarriage remains firm and dry rather than soggy and wet.  The crust is crispy and light rather than chewy and bready.

My recommendation for anybody that wants to try this recipe is to do it exactly as Garvey describes from a 2 stone set up down to the exact sauce and sausage formulation that he provides before trying to tweak it in any way.  Itís a flavor explosion!  I have found no need to alter it in any way.  Itís awesome!!!  Itís perfect!!!  It reminds me so much of the old school pizza I used to get in Milwaukee, Wisconsin as a kid.

Here are a couple of photos.  The first time I made the pizzas I put the toppings on top of the cheese out of habit.  After revisiting the thread I now put the toppings under the cheese.  Itís easier to launch and just seems to be better to me.

Garvey, I canít thank you enough for providing and sharing your Pizza Factory recipe!!!  It reminds me so much of my days in Milwaukee.  You are awesome, and I just wish I could shake your hand.

-Brewer 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Pete-zza on January 15, 2019, 12:44:28 PM
Brewer,

How much did Garvey pay you to say all those nice things about his recipe and pizza? :-D

Peter
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on January 15, 2019, 01:23:53 PM
It has certainly become a Forum house favorite, here at our house too! Looking forward to trying that one in the Passione  :drool:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Brewer on January 15, 2019, 01:28:21 PM
Nothing at all Peter!  I feel like I need to pay him :-D. What an awesome pie formulation!!  Iím having so much fun with it!  All my friends and family that Iíve made it for just rave about it.  What a cool thing!  Iím so happy to be back making pizza! 
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Brewer on January 15, 2019, 01:31:43 PM
Awesome Jon!!  This afternoon Iím making bulk dough for 4 more skins.  Iím a Pizza Factory addict.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on January 15, 2019, 02:56:54 PM
Brewer,

How much did Garvey pay you to say all those nice things about his recipe and pizza? :-D

Peter

 :-D :-D :-D

It has instantly become one of my most favorite pizza recipes to make.  Over the last two months I have made it over a dozen times.  It is truly outstanding!

... For the newbie pizza maker it’s absolutely perfect!  I found that with a lower hydration dough, and a thicker sauce than what I’m use to, it’s so forgiving in the assembly and launch process.  The pizza floats on the peal with minimal peal dust, and the thicker sauce from the paste doesn’t bleed onto and under the rim like crushed tomatoes tend to do more readily.  Storage for leftovers really shine!  After a couple of days the undercarriage remains firm and dry rather than soggy and wet.  The crust is crispy and light rather than chewy and bready....

-Brewer 


Thanks, Brewer!  I am glad you and everyone else likes this pizza as much as I do!

I am only cloning the flavors of Pizza Factory itself, so the flavor explosion honors go to them.  As far as the process and recipe are concerned, you nailed it when you said it is so forgiving and easy to follow.  That was what I was going for in writing this up.  It's gotta be replicable.  (Plus, when I first wrote this up, there really weren't a ton of recipes that gave the whole process, particularly the sauce recipe.  This has always been a dough-centric site, but that has loosened up over the years.  So instead of just complaining, I actually did something about it and wrote up the whole shebang.)

Cheers!
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Brewer on January 15, 2019, 03:26:15 PM
Incredible Garvey!  Absolutely incredible!!!  Thanks again!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on January 15, 2019, 04:44:43 PM
Garvey,
I'm going to try this for next weeks pizza.
Is the recipe on the first page, the 'goto' recipe, or has it been modified over the 31 pages?
I'm going  to bake it on my Blackstone. I'll try dialing in the heat, getting the stone up to 500, and then reducing the heat in the Blackstone at launch. I'm also going to make the sauce and sausage based on Brewer's accolades, since I'm also from the Milwaukee/Chicago area originally.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on January 15, 2019, 10:04:23 PM
rkrider99, yes, the recipe on page 1 is the recipe.

There is only one variant, and that is the no-knead version of the dough (same measurements, same everything, except no kneading).  It's linked in my sig.  (Or if you don't want to read it: just make the dough as directed but instead of kneading it, once it has all come together uniformly, you're done).

Cheers!
Garvey

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on January 20, 2019, 03:55:38 PM
Three-day pizza weekend.  I even made a DD and thin at the same time--something I've always wanted to do but never had before.  The two-stone setup made it easy.







Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Brewer on January 20, 2019, 08:44:27 PM
Awesome looking pizzas Garvey!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: nick57 on January 21, 2019, 01:24:47 PM
 I was thinking of doing a tomato pie this week for another test of the Rocksheat stone. Now I am thinking of doing Garvey's clone. It has become one of my favorite pie's.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on January 22, 2019, 10:16:42 AM
OK, so here's my take on this fantastic pizza. Made two 14" last night. Dough was made on Friday. I planned on doing it on the Blackstone, since my oven is really anemic. only goes to 500 degrees, and it really never gets there, but the weather here didn't cooperate so in the oven it was. I also don't have a 14" peel, so I made it on a 14" perforated pizza pan, baked it for 2 minutes to set, and then slid it off the pan onto the stone for an additional 8 minutes. The stone is an Axner 18X18X3/4 kiln shelf, heated for 90 minutes, and the IR gun registered at 480 degrees. The first 3 pictures are of the wife's pepperoni, mushroom, and onion pie. (Top, side, bottom). The pepperoni is diced small, so it's pretty invisible. The last picture is the top of my sausage and onion pie. The sausage is under the cheese. I was  planning on making the sausage, but didn't have time, so it was just good old Johnsonville. I did make the sauce, and it turned out great. We generally don't like a lot of sauce on our pizza's so we ended up with about half of the sauce left.  I'm figuring based on the quantities of 12 ounces of paste, plus 6 ounces of water, comes out to about 18 ounces of sauce. If you're saying that I was supposed to use pretty much all of the sauce, that would be about 9 ounces of sauce on each pie. That's way too much sauce for us. The other thing I noticed is the dough had some good size bubbles form while baking. I'm contributing that to the fact that I usually take dough out of the refrigerator for about an hour before I roll it out. The internal temp of the dough is usually right around 50 degrees. It is a breeze to rollout though. Okay, so enough of the verbage, let's see some pictures. I will be making this again next week.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on January 22, 2019, 11:46:34 AM
Great looking pies, rkrider99!

The bake temp I use is 450, not 500.  That said, every oven is different, so whatever works for you.  I mean, you're doing all kinds of crazy stuff I've never tried, like using a pizza pan, parbaking the crust, etc., so I'm glad it turned out as well as it did, given these significant changes in baking protocol.  But that's really what pizzamaking is about: figuring out your local conditions to coax a great pie out of whatever you happen to be working with.  There is someone on here that uses a Blackstone and/or WFO, so maybe they have some pointers in that regard, too.

The original Pizza Factory was very saucy.  Heck, many Southside Chicago/Calumet Region pizzas are very saucy, so it's true to type.  But you went with your preference.  (I get a little over 2, maybe 2.5, pizzas per recipe, depending.) 

The bubbles you experienced are probably due to the two things mentioned above--(1) the blind baking and (2) the saucing.  I dunno.

How is that Axner?  I need to order one myself.  (Well, two of them, actually.  I always use a two-stone setup, low and high.)

Cheers,
Garvey

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: rkrider99 on January 22, 2019, 03:05:08 PM
Garvey,
Just to clarify, I didn't blind bake, I built the whole pizza on the pan, put the pan directly on top of the stone for 2 minutes, just enough to start melting the cheese, and get everything firm, and then slid the pizza off of the pan and directly onto the stone. I may try docking the pizza a little to reduce some of the bubbles, but we enjoyed those areas of the pizza as well. I do remember Chicago pizza being somewhat saucy. I'll probably up the sauce a little next time and see how it turns out. The flavors were excellent.
Axner is great. That stone cost me like $25 at the time. It a cordierite kiln shelf. Looking at the same one I bought, it's up to $30.13 now. Still cheap compared to those "retail pizza stones".
Link to the stone I got: https://www.axner.com/cordierite-shelf-18x18x34square.aspx (https://www.axner.com/cordierite-shelf-18x18x34square.aspx) Right above that one is a 18x18x1" for $39.51. Not sure what shipping charges would be. Axner is about 30 minutes from where I live.
Thanks for the great recipes for the dough, sauce, and sausage. I'm really going to try to make that sausage.
Tom
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on January 22, 2019, 03:53:13 PM
Tom--thanks for the clarifications.  I misread the first time.  I am surprised you got air bubbles, given that a 72-hr cold fermented dough shouldn't really be that lively.  It should have behaved itself better.  :D  But this has happened to me, too, every now and then.  Maybe the Dough Doctor, if he saw this, could shed some light (e.g., is it oven spring?  I dunno.).


I looked into the Axner--thanks for the link--and two stones with shipping will be about $100, give or take.  Not bad.

Cheers,
Garvey
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Brewer on January 24, 2019, 04:59:59 PM
I made Pizza Factory yesterday.  They tasted amazing!  I made three 14 inch pizzas on a 72 hr CF with Garvey's No-Kneed formula. 

The first pie was something I usually don't do which is pineapple.  My wife loves pineapple, so I made one for her:  Pineapple, Ciao Pepperoni, Hot Banana Pepper rings, Red Onion, Boars Head Mozz, and TsinTsin crushed pepper flakes on the top.  The hot, sour, and sweet combinations with Garvey's sauce formula were outstanding!

The second pizza was Garveys sausage, Ciao Pepperoni, Red Onion, Green Martini Olives in dry vermouth, Parmigiano Reggiano, Boars Head Mozzarella, and Tsin Tsin crushed red pepper flakes.

The third pizza was a double layer of Ciao Pepperoni, Kalamata black olives, Red Onion, Parmigiano Reggiano, Boars Head Mozzaarella, and Tsin Tsin crushed red pepper flakes.

The fourth picture was taken of the sausage/ pepperoni pie to show how thin the crust was rolled out after it cooked.  The edges of the crusts were super thin.  They warped and curled with the heat.  They blistered really nice.  They were very lite and crispy.  I baked em at 450 F. on a 2 stone set up for about 12 minutes a piece.    Today the leftover reheats were incredible.  Very crispy and dry.  Not soggy, wet, or chewy. 

All the pies had an amazing taste!  Everything I love about a thin crust pizza.  It was and is a beautiful day. :)  Time to make more dough.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on January 24, 2019, 08:23:39 PM
Looks fantastic, Brewer!  Some really tasty combos there!

How do you reheat?  I'm an electric frypan man, myself.  Always nice and crispy.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Brewer on January 24, 2019, 11:22:35 PM
Looks fantastic, Brewer!  Some really tasty combos there!

How do you reheat?  I'm an electric frypan man, myself.  Always nice and crispy.
Hey Garvey, most of the times I use a small Breville air convection toaster oven that I bought just for reheating pizza.  If Iím reheating a lot of slices Iíll heat up the big oven with the stone and parchment paper.  Iíll have to try the electric frypan.  That sounds like a great idea!  Thank you!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on January 25, 2019, 09:55:57 AM
I use a small Breville air convection toaster oven that I bought just for reheating pizza. 

You spent $400 on a device just for reheating pizza?  Nice.   :chef:

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Brewer on January 25, 2019, 08:34:41 PM
All of you folks inspire me!!  What can I say!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: IEatPizzaByThePie on April 08, 2019, 01:51:37 PM
I liked this one. I just threw together a cheese to try it but I can see how some sausage would be a nice addition. Personally, I might go slightly lighter on cheese and sauce next time, just because I like to taste the crust and a thin crust doesn't need much at all for toppings.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 08, 2019, 10:29:17 PM
I can see how some sausage would be a nice addition.

Itís gotta have sausage.  Itís not an addition but the default.  A cheese pizza is a subtraction. ;D
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on April 08, 2019, 10:37:48 PM
Itís gotta have sausage.  Itís not an addition but the default.  A cheese pizza is a subtraction. ;D

 ^^^   yes sir!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: PizzAmateur on April 08, 2019, 10:51:44 PM
Itís gotta have sausage.  Itís not an addition but the default.  A cheese pizza is a subtraction. ;D

My "gotta have" is pepperoni and it MUST see the heat!  Not covered by the cheese.  :pizza:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: dmckean44 on April 08, 2019, 10:55:49 PM
Itís gotta have sausage.  Itís not an addition but the default.  A cheese pizza is a subtraction. ;D

He's not lying.

Pizza menus in Chicago read like:

1. Sausage
2. Sausage and green peppers
3. Sausage and hot or mild peppers
4. Sausage and onions
5. Sausage and pepperoni
6. Sausage and olives
7. Combination (Sausage, peppers and mushrooms)
8. Deep dish sausage

**add extra sausage to any pizza for $3.00

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: PizzAmateur on April 08, 2019, 11:04:32 PM
He's not lying.

Pizza menus in Chicago read like:

1. Sausage
2. Sausage and green peppers
3. Sausage and hot or mild peppers
4. Sausage and onions
5. Sausage and pepperoni
6. Sausage and olives
7. Combination (Sausage, peppers and mushrooms)
8. Deep dish sausage

**add extra sausage to any pizza for $3.00

This reminds me of an old Monty Python routine about Spam.  (grin)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: IEatPizzaByThePie on April 08, 2019, 11:43:38 PM
You forgot the last option.

**remove sausage from any pizza for $4.00

 :-D

I'm good with sausage as a topping, I just happened to throw this one together spur of the moment with extra ingredients I had on hand.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on April 09, 2019, 12:06:19 AM
..............Anyway, like I was sayin', shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich...............That- that's about it.

Just sayin'!!! And I agree, meat needs to see the heat, not under the cheese....MOST of the time!😊😎
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Jackitup on April 09, 2019, 12:07:24 AM
PS..........SPAM rocks on pizza!!!!
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: PizzAmateur on April 09, 2019, 12:23:46 AM
PS..........SPAM rocks on pizza!!!!

Have not eaten Spam in years!  I did like it when my mother would cut it into strips, like french fries, and fry it up in a skillet.

I imagine a Spam and Pineapple pizza would be pretty good! :drool:

Of course, I would have to have a few jalapenos on it as well... (grin)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: IEatPizzaByThePie on April 09, 2019, 04:55:20 AM
..............Anyway, like I was sayin', shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich...............That- that's about it.

Just sayin'!!! And I agree, meat needs to see the heat, not under the cheese....MOST of the time!😊😎

When you got tired, you slept. When you got hungry, you ate. When you had to go, you know, you went.............. 😊😎
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: PizzAmateur on April 09, 2019, 05:13:12 AM
When you got tired, you slept. When you got hungry, you ate. When you had to go, you know, you went.............. 😊😎

Still one of my all time favorite movies.  The best acting  Hanks has done in quite some time...

Also read the book.  Winston Groom is not a very good writer and the movie made him look like he is/was... (chuckle)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: jimk on April 09, 2019, 08:56:07 AM
..............Anyway, like I was sayin', shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich...............That- that's about it.

Just sayin'!!! And I agree, meat needs to see the heat, not under the cheese....MOST of the time!😊😎
My favorite pizzas always have had the sausage and pepperoni on top of the cheese. I don't like it under. To me, under ruins the taste of meats because they are not getting the full effect of the Maillard Reaction. It also looks.... kind of gross.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: IEatPizzaByThePie on April 09, 2019, 08:17:39 PM
Is this based on the one that was on Sheridan?
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 10, 2019, 09:46:30 AM
You forgot the last option.

**remove sausage from any pizza for $4.00


 :-D :-D :-D

I feel the same way about pie cut.  If I ever own a pizza shop, I have already decided that requests for pie cut will be a $2.00 upcharge.  I'm dead serious.  :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: IEatPizzaByThePie on April 13, 2019, 01:03:36 PM
 ;)
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: IEatPizzaByThePie on April 14, 2019, 12:57:54 PM
Garvey, is this the place? There are a few by that name but I don't think you mentioned which location you're referring to.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: xechostormx on April 14, 2019, 01:51:21 PM
Hi Garvey, I just wanted to thank you for this crust and sauce recipe. I came here looking for the NWI / chicago suburbs tavern pie, specifically my favorite crust in the whole world, House of Pizza in Hammond, Indiana and imagine my surprise when you actually called it out by name in this thread!

That being said, I hadn't realized the dough would need so much proofing initially, so I am only going to have about 26hrs on it for this first attempt. I am currently helping it along a bit out of the fridge,  as its starting to smell right, but dinner is in 3 hours so I'm just going to have to go for it.

I made a batch of your sausage yesterday and a small test batch of sauce, and I do have to say, I am super excited about it. I usually use the recipe for La Rosa's sauce (a great resturaunt owned by a great family on Indianapolis Blvd, Hammond from 1979 until 2012) but the Pizza Factory one is so unique compared to that I am super excited to try it.

I will be using a 1/4 baking steel in an electric oven on the middle  upper rack, set to bake at 500 for an hour and then turned to broil high once the pizza goes in. I will then let the broiler cool down before doing pizza #2  This seems to produce pretty good results from my research but this will be my first attempt.

I cant get Scamorza cheese out here so I am going to be trying a mix of 50% kraft low moisture whole milk mozzarella, 30% meijer brand unsmoked provolone and 20% cracker barrel sharp white cheddar today, to do something a little different.  I know of a couple places that used half whole milk and half part skim, a few that used grande mozz or a blend like this and who knows what Langel's uses... so Im hoping to get close to one of them.

 I hope it comes out half as good as the beauties you guys have put up and thanks again for all your hard work, just the thought of a taste of home has me super excited.
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: xechostormx on April 14, 2019, 08:21:05 PM
here are my results. crust was kindof trash due to no rise, no gumline at all, flavors almost there but just not... this is all 100% because it didnt proof long enough and i had to pull it and quick rise it... basically a tavern tasting cracker crust. For my oven and this particular crust, i had to move position alot on the sausage to get it to setup right , for my 2nd pepperoni, i just put the steel 1 from the bottom at 550 with no broiler at all on parchment for 4 minutes and bare steel for 6, came out beautiful. i imagine the crust would have browned better if it had had the time to set up. considering I used a blend, the cheese didnt really stand out, going to go half whole fresh, half skim mozz next time. It was a 6/10 (10/10 for indy) kids and wife thought it was the best pizza ever :) heres some pics.

forgot to add the finished pepperoni but thats not worth another post.

Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Chicago Bob on April 15, 2019, 10:24:16 AM
boy i like the looks of that.....nice job!!   :chef:
Title: Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
Post by: Garvey on April 16, 2019, 11:23:33 PM
Garvey, is this the place? There are a few by that name but I don't think you mentioned which location you're referring to.

No, it was a one-off mom-n-pop shop, defunct since 1990 or so.