Pizza Making Forum

General Topics => Pizza Making Equipment => Pizza Ovens => Topic started by: Warlan on November 03, 2016, 06:49:00 PM

Title: Pizza Party vs brick oven
Post by: Warlan on November 03, 2016, 06:49:00 PM
Based on my reading a Pizza Party takes about 40min to heat up, while a brick oven takes about 2 hours or more.

However, would it be possible to heat the floor of a brick oven quickly and keep the flames burning well like is done in a Pizza Party and achieve Neapolitan style pizza? This would require a low dome like found in a FGM presumably, but I was wondering if anyone had tried or if it is just not possible (mass of brick oven just absorbs the heat too quickly).

I ask because I would like to have the flexibility to cook other foods besides pizza that the brick oven seems to provide without having to always need 2 or more hours of heat up time to cook 5 pizzas for the family.

Title: Re: Pizza Party vs brick oven
Post by: Simone on November 04, 2016, 04:09:54 AM
Hi Warlan
see for example this page
isn't necessary a big mass of brick oven to cook other foods

example photos of Paolo Carrolo and Leonardo (IT)
Title: Re: Pizza Party vs brick oven
Post by: Warlan on November 04, 2016, 11:36:02 AM
Thanks for the pictures. Love the braciolettini. Besides grilling those over coals, when making the lasagna or roasting in general does it require a lot of maintenance of the fire? Since there is no thermal mass, are you required to keep the flames going? I'm curious as to how easy/difficult it is to roast in the oven.
Thanks in advance,
Title: Re: Pizza Party vs brick oven
Post by: breadstoneovens on November 04, 2016, 02:17:13 PM
Hi Warlan,

The short answer is yes, you can. I have done it a couple of time with a 950 B standard dome.

If you do a good fired with small branches that generate a lot of flame, you will be able to cook one or 2 pizza with the surface heat of our brick ovens. This is possible because of the low dome design, the color of the bricks we use and their natural refractory characteristics.
After the one or two pizza you will have to keep firing the oven before you can cook more pizza.

Once you have overall heated the oven for about 2 hours, you can cook pizza after pizza. You won't need as big of a fire and the door can stay open the whole time. Once the oven is hot, it just stays hot, even if fire dies down a bit.

As you pointed out, with the extra thermal mass you can cook other food. With a smaller fire you can grill, do rotisserie and more. Once you remove the fire you will get about 4 to 5 days of residual heat. With you can expect 3 days of cooking without re-firing the oven.
Many food like bread, cakes, pies, ... should be cooked without the fire. Otherwise it is very tricky to not burn them and they may get a very heavy smoke flavor.

To give you an idea of heat retention a 950 B will take close to 24 hours to drop from 250 F to 200 F. I often use that temperature range do slow smoking or shoulder pork roast.

Feel free to post in this thread or PM me if you need further details.

Title: Re: Pizza Party vs brick oven
Post by: Warlan on November 04, 2016, 06:03:33 PM
Thanks for the reply Antoine. When you say you have to keep firing after one or two pizzas do you mean add more wood or wait till the floor heats up? I would assume with a constant fire going as in the Pizza Party, much of the heat is coming from the fire and flame for cooking the top of the pizza.

I guess I dont understand why the floor of your ovens would behave differently than the floors of the Pizza Party assuming similar sized ovens (800b vs Pizzone).
Title: Re: Pizza Party vs brick oven
Post by: breadstoneovens on November 07, 2016, 10:27:54 AM
Both, you will have to put more wood and wait that the floor heats-up. I would say you should be able to bake the next couple of pizza after 10 or 15 minutes.

On our ovens like the 800 B, the floor is 3"1/4 thick. We use very dense materials; 1"1/4 bricks and 2" vibrated refractory concrete. The heat is traveling down while it heats-up and if you have a pizza stilling the heat and shielding the floor from the flames at a point where the oven floor is not fully hot yet, it will even out at whatever temperature it is at.
However once that floor is heated to its full thickness, the oven will requires little wood to keep up the temp and it will return a lot of heat for a long time.

Not sure how thick the floor of the pizza party is, but it is fairly thin comparatively. That is the opposite of my oven, that floor heats-up fast but has little to no thermal mass to cook with. As you said it is all about the flame.

And to be clear, I am not putting down the pizza party, as they have their advantages. Just stating the differences.

Title: Re: Pizza Party vs brick oven
Post by: dday_two on September 02, 2019, 08:59:59 AM

I recently got an FGM 950B for my country house and I am very impressed and pleased with its performance. I am mainly interested in Neapolitan pizza baking but I found the oven was retaining the heat so well that I could not resist from cooking many other dishes.

So, I would like to buy a 2nd smaller wood oven for the balcony of my main house, mainly for Neo pizza, but for other dishes too. So, I am looking for something not big and compact, preassembled and insulated, preferably mobile.

I found from the forum that Pizza Party is a very good option for Neo pizza, but it seems that doesn't deal well with cooking without flame (lack of thermal mass).

I saw that Four Grand Mere has recently released a ready to use oven, the ALFRED, based on "Le Flamme", a 700mm internal diameter all chamotte oven. The thickness of the floor and the dome is 4cm.

Its price ranges from 2.480 to 3.880 (depending on purchasing the base, etc.)

Has anyone have any idea about this oven? Do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks a lot,
Title: Re: Pizza Party vs brick oven
Post by: TXCraig1 on September 02, 2019, 12:11:30 PM
Send a PM to Antoine (member name is breadstoneovens). I'm sure he can tell you anything you want to know about the FGM oven.
Title: Re: Pizza Party vs brick oven
Post by: dday_two on September 03, 2019, 06:01:29 AM
Thanks a lot. Sure I will!