Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => California Style => Topic started by: HarryHaller73 on November 12, 2017, 09:58:03 PM

Title: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: HarryHaller73 on November 12, 2017, 09:58:03 PM
Wonder why.
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: StateofMind on November 13, 2017, 01:57:11 AM
My guess is because California style pizza isn't real popular with pizza lovers in California. While I do experiment with some exotic toppings and flavors I don't consider my pies "California style". I consider the style to be a little gimmicky like the stuff at CPK and some of the things that Wolfgang Puck have done with pizza.   
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: mitchjg on November 13, 2017, 09:51:46 AM
To the extent that a California pizza is primarily unusual / exotic toppings, etc., I do make California Style pizzas with some frequency.  For example, one of our regular "go-to" pizzas is a BLT.  We also make date and red onion (plain white sauce) pies as well as BBQ meats with BBQ sauce as a base.

I tend to post in the General Pizza making section and do not get embroiled in the "name" of the style.  My pies are usually WFO, but at a lower temperature than Neapolitan and the occassional off the beaten track toppings - neither fish nor fowl no matter what kind of fish or fowl you like.

Others have done the same - make pizzas that are akin to California Style but post in the more General section  I think a great example is the several posts about Mozza's pizza.  I do not know how narrowly one can attempt to define California pizza since the likes of Wolfgang P, Chez Panisse, Mozza and CPK pizzas are all pretty different from each other - but they all have the non-traditional toppings (but not exclusively - they do tomato/cheese, too) as a common thread.

Another example is Craig's Neapolitan toppings are very non-traditional from time to time.

Regarding dough/oven and workflow, I am not sure if there is anything particularly distinctive that can be isolated as "the" style.  For example, Chez Panisse dough and Mozza dough could not be more different.

That may be why people do not post much in this section - the style is not that distinct that you can attempt to circle the wagons around it and, beyond the use of unusual toppings, the pizzas overlap other styles.

*********************

Your post sparked me to wonder why this is of interest to you since you are such a NY pizza type of a guy.  Is there a reason beyond simple curiousity?
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: Pete-zza on November 13, 2017, 10:30:09 AM
Wonder why.
HH73,

I attempted a while back to answer your question at Reply 3 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=22400.msg228027;topicseen#msg228027

I'm not sure that I would add much to that reply other than to say that Wolfgang Puck has become a one-man conglomerate with interests across several areas of the food biz. Also, not long before the above reply, California Pizza Kitchen had sold the business to a private equity firm. I believe that Larry Flax and Rick Rosenfield, the co-founders of California Pizza Kitchen, are still active in the business but more likely as spokepersons for the chain and assisting in marketing the chain. They are both in their 70s now. And Alice Waters is 73. And even Wolfgang is getting up there. He is 68. I think Ed Ladou's premature and untimely death drove a nail in the coffin of the so-called California style since he was at the center of that style from the beginning but it is quite possible that peoples' interest in that style would have waned anyway at some point. But I would defer to Mitch and Mike and other Californians on that point.

Peter

Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: Essen1 on November 13, 2017, 11:05:23 AM
Peter,

I never really understood why it was called California style to begin with.

Yes, toppings were a bit more adventurous and out of the norm than your run-of-the-mill cheese & pepperoni pie but thatís where the differences end for me personally. The dough itself still leans on old traditions from Italy.

Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: waltertore on November 13, 2017, 12:28:26 PM
From my observations of living in California for 15 years and now Reno for 2 years ( a Los Angeles, Sacramento, Bay area suburb now with  transplants)  The main thing that is commonly asked for by Californians are lots of toppings and I mean lots - double and even triple- on a pizza both exotic and common ones.  Next is they will load 1/2 a pie with double or more toppings and leave the other 1/2 sauce and cheese.  We are often asked to make 1/4 or 1 slice of different toppings on a pie.  We only allow 1/2's.  Most of these requests come from CA or Reno natives. Reno has becoming a CA suburb for years and is really hitting high gear today with mass exodus to a slower, less crowded,cheaper, lifestyle.  When we get a cheese pie order it is 90%+ a sure bet it is from someone from the Northeast. 

 When I hit CA in 1979 pizza there was so different that I stopped calling it pizza.  I spent 5 years on my first CA residency in SF and Sonoma County and never found a pizza that made me want to come back for another one.  Toppings were piled on at 3-5 times the amount of what I was use to,  shops allowed 1/2, 1/4 of the pizzas to have different toppings,  crusts were tasteless, soggy, sauce was amped up with spices beyond extreme to my norm.  They were always undercooked.   These observations were based on what was normal to my roots growing up in the 1950's-70's NJ/NYC pizza world where cheese pies were #1 and 1 toppings ok and 2 the max.  I have yet to find a CA pizza that makes me want to make it a regular stop.  My travels have been limited to SF, Sonoma County, and SACTO

When I go home to NJ/NYC today I find more and more deck oven  pizzerias following in the mega/exotic toppings, and allowing 1/2, 1/4 pie toppings.  Crusts today are also more bland than I grew up with and find most pizzerias have gone way downhill.  It use to be you could walk in any pizzeria in Essex County NJ and get a decent to great pie. No more. You have to know where you are going or it will be a big let down to what I grew up with.  Families don't run pizzerias like they use to and hiring off the street of unskilled pizza people has caused it to slide big time.  On a Nationwide view IMO the internet has caused regional foods, music, to be easily accessed vs. having to move there to experience it and thus a generic product is becoming more the norm everywhere.  We now have so many franchise pizzerias in Reno and many claim east coast, CA, roots.  You tell me what is the difference today with things ??? ???  I give up with it all.  I make the pizza I like and that is the end of it.  How I got there and how I do it can be classified any way you want.  I don't care cause I like it :) This a CA/Hawaii or maybe it is based out of Alabama.... chain example here in Reno.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/longboards-beach-fired-pizza-reno?osq=Longboard+Pizza

Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: jsaras on November 13, 2017, 12:38:36 PM
It's redundant as we've already infected the rest of the pizza-making world. Ciro di Salvo and Gabrielle Bonci are as Californian as anyone could possibly be.  Anthony Pinello's Best Pizza in NYC serves pizza with Calabrian chili, anchovies, pickled veggies and kale.  Case closed!
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: Essen1 on November 13, 2017, 12:48:13 PM
It's redundant as we've already infected the rest of the pizza-making world. Ciro di Salvo and Gabrielle Bonci are as Californian as anyone could possibly be.  Anthony Pinello's Best Pizza in NYC serves pizza with Calabrian chili, anchovies, pickled veggies and kale.  Case closed!

Agreed.

Even the new hot spot in NYC, Williamsburg Pizza, serves exotic toppings...

Tartufo
Fresh Mozzarella, Mixed Wild Mushrooms, Rosemary & White Truffle Oil

Messina
Goat Cheese, Ricotta, Artichoke, Sopressata & Imported Black Olives

Apple Bacon

Smoked Fresh Mozzarella, Parmigiano-Reggiano, Bacon, Crushed Walnuts, Gorgonzola & Apples

Calabrese

Red Onions, Sopressata, Imported Black Olives, Homemade Fresh Mozzarella & Tomato Sauce

Kale Taleggio
Fresh Mozzarella, Kale, Sausage, Pine Nuts & Taleggio Cheese
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: StateofMind on November 13, 2017, 01:04:59 PM
From my observations of living in California for 15 years and now Reno for 2 years ( a Los Angeles, Sacramento, Bay area suburb now with  transplants)  The main thing that is commonly asked for by Californians are lots of toppings and I mean lots - double and even triple- on a pizza both exotic and common ones. 

While this may be true about the the desires of many Californians, I don't think that really defines the style (if there is one). And I would suggest that the lots of toppings thing is more common at the chains and mid to lower end shops here. The chain I worked for for close to 15 years definitely was heavy handed with the toppings. However a lot of the local pizza makers I like as well as my style are reasonably restrained.
And I think the Bay Area has some unbelievable pizza shops:
 Any of Tony G's spots
 Zachary's
 Pizziaolo
 A16
 Pizzeria Delfina
 The Cheeseboard
 Oak and Rye
 etc
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: Pete-zza on November 13, 2017, 01:16:50 PM
Peter,

I never really understood why it was called California style to begin with.

Yes, toppings were a bit more adventurous and out of the norm than your run-of-the-mill cheese & pepperoni pie but thatís where the differences end for me personally. The dough itself still leans on old traditions from Italy.
Mike,

When I went back to the pizza section of the CPK website, at https://www.cpk.com/menu/#original-crust-pizzas, I thought that the photo shown there looked like a lot of your pizzas. Maybe you are making a California style pizza after all :-D. All jokes aside, I think that there are several CPK pizzas in the CPK menu that lean somewhat to the traditional side. By contrast, I thought that the Ladou pizza menu was more ambitious, although he also had a section for what he deemed to be his version of the NY style.

Since I have the CPK cookbook and had followed what Wolfgang Puck was doing, I tried some of the recipes years ago to get a better feel for the California style. I posted on the subject at:

Reply 4 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10176.msg91645;topicseen#msg91645,

Reply 13 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=702.msg56174#msg56174, and

Reply 5 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5487.msg46356#msg46356.

Peter
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: Essen1 on November 13, 2017, 01:42:59 PM
While this may be true about the the desires of many Californians, I don't think that really defines the style (if there is one). And I would suggest that the lots of toppings thing is more common at the chains and mid to lower end shops here. The chain I worked for for close to 15 years definitely was heavy handed with the toppings. However a lot of the local pizza makers I like as well as my style are reasonably restrained.
And I think the Bay Area has some unbelievable pizza shops:
 Any of Tony G's spots
 Zachary's
 Pizziaolo
 A16
 Pizzeria Delfina
 The Cheeseboard
 Oak and Rye
 etc

To add to that list...

Arinell
Marcello's
Pizza Picco
Bar Bocce
Casey's
Delfina
Del Poppolo, etc...need more?  ;D

Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: yarbrough462 on November 13, 2017, 01:49:11 PM
Agreed.

Even the new hot spot in NYC, Williamsburg Pizza, serves exotic toppings...

Tartufo
Fresh Mozzarella, Mixed Wild Mushrooms, Rosemary & White Truffle Oil

Messina
Goat Cheese, Ricotta, Artichoke, Sopressata & Imported Black Olives

Apple Bacon

Smoked Fresh Mozzarella, Parmigiano-Reggiano, Bacon, Crushed Walnuts, Gorgonzola & Apples

Calabrese

Red Onions, Sopressata, Imported Black Olives, Homemade Fresh Mozzarella & Tomato Sauce

Kale Taleggio
Fresh Mozzarella, Kale, Sausage, Pine Nuts & Taleggio Cheese

What's funny is that other than the kale, those other pies are pretty common here in Italy...
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: mitchjg on November 13, 2017, 01:51:15 PM
To add to that list...

Arinell
Marcello's
Pizza Picco
Bar Bocce
Casey's
Delfina
Del Poppolo, etc...need more?  ;D

Rise Pizzeria run by fellow member Omidz in Burlingame (across the street from Delfina, haha).  Thin crust, WFO pizza, baked at about 700.  Restraint on the amount of toppings.  Lots of pizzas with traditional toppings.  Lots of pizzas with "California"/non-Traditional toppings.  Great stuff.

 https://media-cdn.getbento.com/accounts/609f3182c27e7825f5776d074e0555ac/media/accounts/media/cL9LvKRISPmSQ832C6Kw_rise%20pizzeria%20menu.pdf

Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: Essen1 on November 13, 2017, 02:00:23 PM
Mike,

When I went back to the pizza section of the CPK website, at https://www.cpk.com/menu/#original-crust-pizzas, I thought that the photo shown there looked like a lot of your pizzas. Maybe you are making a California style pizza after all :-D. All jokes aside, I think that there are several CPK pizzas in the CPK menu that lean somewhat to the traditional side. By contrast, I thought that the Ladou pizza menu was more ambitious, although he also had a section for what he deemed to be his version of the NY style.

Since I have the CPK cookbook and had followed what Wolfgang Puck was doing, I tried some of the recipes years ago to get a better feel for the California style. I posted on the subject at:

Reply 4 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10176.msg91645;topicseen#msg91645,

Reply 13 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=702.msg56174#msg56174, and

Reply 5 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5487.msg46356#msg46356.

Peter

Peter,

Please don't tell me that! I'd have to start from scratch and perhaps reinvent the wheel... ;D

I don't think you can really slap any label on any pizza for that matter. They all follow the same basic procedure...smother a flatbread with sauce and cheese and bake in a hot oven, with perhaps Chicago being the exception. That's more of a casserole to me.

Every pizza is as unique as the man/woman making it, imo.


But why are we even here, defending this subforum? Was the OP just trying to be provocative or is he trying to imply that this subforum is basically useless because it's not as active or busy as others?
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: jvp123 on November 13, 2017, 02:02:35 PM
I suspect the reason not many people post here is because the category has become outdated?  Or at least fused into other styles ...
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: waltertore on November 13, 2017, 02:14:22 PM
While this may be true about the the desires of many Californians, I don't think that really defines the style (if there is one). And I would suggest that the lots of toppings thing is more common at the chains and mid to lower end shops here. The chain I worked for for close to 15 years definitely was heavy handed with the toppings. However a lot of the local pizza makers I like as well as my style are reasonably restrained.
And I think the Bay Area has some unbelievable pizza shops:
 Any of Tony G's spots
 Zachary's
 Pizziaolo
 A16
 Pizzeria Delfina
 The Cheeseboard
 Oak and Rye
 etc


I agree that labeling an entire state a certain way is wrong but most of our CA customers are use to menus that offer a bunch of different pre determined topped pies - like one gets such and such stuff on it and is called a so and so pizza.  They often get confused by our menu as it lets the customer pick their toppings.  Maybe this leads to the people putting so many topping on a pizza??  Where I grew up the pizzas always came as cheese and the menu would list prices per size with toppings listed and how much for each but I see newer shops are following with names for pizzas and they come with set ingredients.   

Many of our CA customers  were regulars at many of the pizzerias you mentioned.  We don't come anywhere near them with types of toppings but they keep coming back for more of our pies and most say they prefer our simple approach.  We make more $ with the heavy topped pies and I will put on whatever and how much they want. as I am not one to decide what tastes right or wrong for others :).   
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: StateofMind on November 13, 2017, 02:17:07 PM
I suspect the reason not many people post here is because the category has become outdated?  Or at least fused into other styles ...

Absolutely
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: Josh123 on November 13, 2017, 03:33:24 PM
People probably don't post here because a lot of the pizza posted here isn't NY style, but for some reason still finds it's way here. Identity crisis, imo
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: mitchjg on November 13, 2017, 03:42:32 PM
People probably don't post here because a lot of the pizza posted here isn't NY style, but for some reason still finds it's way here. Identity crisis, imo

Where is "here"?  The word is used 3 times but it may be referring to more than one place?
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: tinroofrusted on November 13, 2017, 04:24:04 PM
I'm a native Californian. I hate when people refer to our state as "Cali". Cali is a city in Colombia, not a U.S. state.  Many people I know feel the same way.  Just FYI and I know not all Californians agree with me.
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: sunrainsky on November 13, 2017, 10:22:45 PM
I'm from Singapore and I actually like California Pizza Kitchen Peking Duck pizza with thin crust here.

The crust is airy and crispy. It is among my favourite crusts here alongside another chain of pizzeria here (Pepperoni's).

I wish there was a recipe for it. I am not quite a fan of their normal crust though. I am not sure if their thin crust is just merely taking the same recipe and stretching it thinner. I know that Domino's thin crust was more alike to puff pastry compared to their normal crust.
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: invertedisdead on November 17, 2017, 01:07:02 PM
I'm not convinced heavy toppings has anything to do with California. Seems pretty common throughout most of the country, and further reinforced by the big chains.


Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: HarryHaller73 on December 06, 2017, 12:43:09 AM
Let's make California pizza great again.
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: andytiedye on September 12, 2018, 11:20:17 PM
Most pizza places here make "New York" style pizza, though some get a bit more creative with the toppings.

My own tastes run to deeeep dish San Francisco sourdough pizza. With the popularity of sourdough in SF,  you'd think it would be everywhere, but nooo
l had to make it myself.
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: Mako13 on October 19, 2018, 04:44:26 AM
I'm here.

Anyone tried Tony Gemignani's pizza, and can comment on how it compares to those made by the people in Silicon Valley/SF Bay that run Frankie, Johnnie and Luigi Too, or Giorgio's?
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: StateofMind on October 19, 2018, 05:20:01 AM
I'm here.

Anyone tried Tony Gemignani's pizza, and can comment on how it compares to those made by the people in Silicon Valley/SF Bay that run Frankie, Johnnie and Luigi Too, or Giorgio's?

I go to Tonyís all the time. He doesnít make just one style of pizza at his spot in North Beach so itís kind of hard to compare to an old school spot like F,J, & L. My shop is in Silicon Valley area and I guess you could could consider our style ďCaliforniaĒ style though we done call it that. 
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: New Restaurant on October 19, 2018, 09:59:43 AM
From my observations of living in California for 15 years and now Reno for 2 years ( a Los Angeles, Sacramento, Bay area suburb now with  transplants)  The main thing that is commonly asked for by Californians are lots of toppings and I mean lots - double and even triple- on a pizza both exotic and common ones.  Next is they will load 1/2 a pie with double or more toppings and leave the other 1/2 sauce and cheese.  We are often asked to make 1/4 or 1 slice of different toppings on a pie.  We only allow 1/2's.  Most of these requests come from CA or Reno natives. Reno has becoming a CA suburb for years and is really hitting high gear today with mass exodus to a slower, less crowded,cheaper, lifestyle.  When we get a cheese pie order it is 90%+ a sure bet it is from someone from the Northeast. 

 When I hit CA in 1979 pizza there was so different that I stopped calling it pizza.  I spent 5 years on my first CA residency in SF and Sonoma County and never found a pizza that made me want to come back for another one.  Toppings were piled on at 3-5 times the amount of what I was use to,  shops allowed 1/2, 1/4 of the pizzas to have different toppings,  crusts were tasteless, soggy, sauce was amped up with spices beyond extreme to my norm.  They were always undercooked.   These observations were based on what was normal to my roots growing up in the 1950's-70's NJ/NYC pizza world where cheese pies were #1 and 1 toppings ok and 2 the max.  I have yet to find a CA pizza that makes me want to make it a regular stop.  My travels have been limited to SF, Sonoma County, and SACTO

When I go home to NJ/NYC today I find more and more deck oven  pizzerias following in the mega/exotic toppings, and allowing 1/2, 1/4 pie toppings.  Crusts today are also more bland than I grew up with and find most pizzerias have gone way downhill.  It use to be you could walk in any pizzeria in Essex County NJ and get a decent to great pie. No more. You have to know where you are going or it will be a big let down to what I grew up with.  Families don't run pizzerias like they use to and hiring off the street of unskilled pizza people has caused it to slide big time.  On a Nationwide view IMO the internet has caused regional foods, music, to be easily accessed vs. having to move there to experience it and thus a generic product is becoming more the norm everywhere.  We now have so many franchise pizzerias in Reno and many claim east coast, CA, roots.  You tell me what is the difference today with things ??? ???  I give up with it all.  I make the pizza I like and that is the end of it.  How I got there and how I do it can be classified any way you want.  I don't care cause I like it :) This a CA/Hawaii or maybe it is based out of Alabama.... chain example here in Reno.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/longboards-beach-fired-pizza-reno?osq=Longboard+Pizza

Please.......easy.....I am new here, but read the board for awhile on and off. 

The above post tells a lot.  However, a lot of people will not read, listen and understand other's views, opinions and experiences.  NOT just in pizza, but in almost everything these days.

People ask, people do not listen, people do not engage, people assume and some do---a lot do not, know how to apply the internet reading and research they do to actual product, service and life itself.  It is a post 2000 thing, IMO and I seriously believe in reality.

This is widespread and applies to everything from Pizza and other foods to service businesses to skilled labor.  Why?  So many things but IMO again, the internet and instant everything and failure to apply, perfect and specialize with heart and soul. 

Now, as far as California, I lived there in the 80's while working for Universal Studios/MCA Television and also the Federal Government in law enforcement.  Then back to New York City and New Jersey.  I am familiar with California off and on ever since.  I go there often.  Still, as an outsider, observer and also having some family members there, so many things I see are lacking depth, quick for the buck, always inventing and moving on, what's there today is gone tomorrow syndrome of sorts, etc., etc.  As far as the food, I find (please do not accept what I am going to say as insulting or degrading), mostly knock-offs of most dishes and things around the country, just with a twist or turn on them to make it California, meaning a special drizzle or flower or piece of raw sushi or vegetable on it, declaring it the hip thing, or the California special or something of the likes. 

Maybe the problem is, I spent most of my life in NYC or NJ, and on the east coast and just for example, when you see people eating in NYC, talking kind of on the loud side, discussing (to others it is arguing always) and ramming the food down their mouths and waving their hands, buying people drinks, smiling and laughing and sharing with people they do not even know, and many other things----as compared to when i visit a California restaurant, the people are mostly reserved, quite, dressed a bit better often times, whisper when they talk, wipe their mouths after every bite and seldom share anything with strangers and unknown people as a general rule, and many other things, to me it becomes a bit clearer as to the lifestyle and overpriced everything in California. 

I have a family member in Riverside County in a city called Hemet.  Lots of Asians, my god, they paid upwards of $500,000 for a house that sells for $200,000 in most parts of the country or less, maybe $325,000 in the suburbs of NYC.  Taxes are triple if not quadrupled out there.  Their car registrations and insurance are as well.  I have an in-law out in Rancho/Palm Springs area.  OMG, not a mansion, a 2,300 sq foot house, over $700,000!  We went for a quick bite to eat in a strip shopping center food place, nothing fancy, a step above fast food and a long way south of a fancy place.  2 people, quick lunch of sandwiches, close to $40.00.   

Pizza out there, I am not an expert.  Ate at many places, not familiar with the SF area except Daly City and Vallejo.  Mostly Asian stuff again.  Anyway, I agree with the under-cooked and the heavy toppings.  But once again, some type of fancy vegetables with 'special house drizzle' of something and an inflated price tag, all IMO and actual experiences.

Something has always stuck with me after all the years of visiting California after I left there.  The billboards with all the plastic surgery doctors and health related everything.

You grew up, you live, you enjoy and then you pass away.  I don't know, maybe California (Southern California?) has a different outlook?  Look good before you die and enjoy but don't spread the joy, excitement and feelings in public??

Oh, one more thing.  I hear the phrase along the lines of, "We don't do 'that', or We don't have 'that' out here" in California frequently.  ????

Also, WalterTore said, ....." We make more $ with the heavy topped pies and I will put on whatever and how much they want. as I am not one to decide what tastes right or wrong for others".....  And, although I can not cite a California or Midwest restaurant of any type refusing to change, add or delete, something from a dish, I have run into that in NY/NJ where the owner or manager will say something along the lines of, "Sorry, we do not change our dish/item at all or put something extra on it, sorry".  Maybe it is that NY attitude or just the extreme belief it is his way or no way at his place, IDK. 

Thanks, and all IMO and experiences.



Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: Mako13 on November 01, 2018, 02:54:08 AM
Do you own a pizza place, StateofMind?

If so, what's the name of it, and what makes it a California-style pie?

I used to work in Palo Alto, and lived in SJ.  Sometimes ate at a small place in a shopping mall, across from Stanford University.  Can't recall the name of it, but they had tons of 49er memorabilia on the walls inside the shop.  Made a Round Table-like sauce for their pizzas.

Love FJ&L, and Giorgio's.  They make some of the best pizzas I've ever had.

I also love Round Table too.

Gusti's, in Washington D.C. was my favorite back east, as a kid.

I've had real NY pizza in NY, eons ago, but not for some time.

There are lots of places around Sacramento now claiming to be "NY-style", but I think I've only found one in the region that truly is, near down-town Sac.  Can't remember the name of it right now.
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: StateofMind on November 01, 2018, 12:09:37 PM
Do you own a pizza place, StateofMind?

If so, what's the name of it, and what makes it a California-style pie?

I used to work in Palo Alto, and lived in SJ.  Sometimes ate at a small place in a shopping mall, across from Stanford University.  Can't recall the name of it, but they had tons of 49er memorabilia on the walls inside the shop.  Made a Round Table-like sauce for their pizzas.

Love FJ&L, and Giorgio's.  They make some of the best pizzas I've ever had.

I also love Round Table too.

Gusti's, in Washington D.C. was my favorite back east, as a kid.

I've had real NY pizza in NY, eons ago, but not for some time.

There are lots of places around Sacramento now claiming to be "NY-style", but I think I've only found one in the region that truly is, near down-town Sac.  Can't remember the name of it right now.

I do own a restaurant in Los Altos called State of Mind Public House and Pizzeria. Like I said I donít really think of it as California style or really any specific style. I donít like boxes and rules. But many people would consider us of that style because of the fresh seasonal vegetables we use, local meats, and non-traditional toppings.
I grew up in Palo Alto and think you are probably talking about the Oasis which unfortunately closed last year. The place was an institution. I never cared for the pizza (too thick and fought for me) but they made s mean burger.
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: Mako13 on November 02, 2018, 05:45:47 AM
Thanks for the reply, and info.

No, not the Oasis.  I recall that one.

This one was in the same shopping strip-mall as Stickneys (before they closed), off El Camino (east side of that), across from the southern end of Stanford University, towards the back of the mall, on the left hand side (north side of the mall).  It was a pretty small place, with just a few tables.  Seems like he catered mainly to students, and the locals.  I used to drop in there for lunch, from time to time.

I think his sauce was a mix of tomato paste and tomato sauce, and his pies were more like a hand-tossed, NY variety, than the thin-crust of Round Table, though his sauce was very similar.

I will have to stop in and try one of your pizzas, if I ever get back to the area again.
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: StateofMind on November 02, 2018, 05:56:59 AM
Thanks for the reply, and info.

No, not the Oasis.  I recall that one.

This one was in the same shopping strip-mall as Stickneys (before they closed), off El Camino (east side of that), across from the southern end of Stanford University, towards the back of the mall, on the left hand side (north side of the mall).  It was a pretty small place, with just a few tables.  Seems like he catered mainly to students, and the locals.  I used to drop in there for lunch, from time to time.

I think his sauce was a mix of tomato paste and tomato sauce, and his pies were more like a hand-tossed, NY variety, than the thin-crust of Round Table, though his sauce was very similar.

I will have to stop in and try one of your pizzas, if I ever get back to the area again.

It may have been Red Boy Pizza. That was at Town and Country village by Stickneys for a long time. Very decent Round Table-esque pizza. The owner was super involved with youth sports when I was growing up there.

Definitely stop by if you are ever close by.
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: andytiedye on November 02, 2018, 09:47:46 AM
the internet and instant everything and failure to apply, perfect and specialize with heart and soul.
How are we having this conversation?

Now, as far as California, I lived there in the 80's while working for Universal Studios/MCA Television and also the Federal Government in law enforcement.  Then back to New York City and New Jersey.
From TV to law enforcement to pizza. That sounds like an interesting career trajectory.

I am familiar with California off and on ever since.  I go there often.  Still, as an outsider, observer and also having some family members there, so many things I see are lacking depth, quick for the buck, always inventing and moving on, what's there today is gone tomorrow syndrome of sorts, etc., etc.
It comes with the territory to some extent. Even the ground won't stay put.
Of course some are here for the latest version of the Gold Rush.

As far as the food, I find (please do not accept what I am going to say as insulting or degrading), mostly knock-offs of most dishes and things around the country, just with a twist or turn on them to make it California, meaning a special drizzle or flower or piece of raw sushi or vegetable on it, declaring it the hip thing, or the California special or something of the likes.
From around to world, actually. We don't usually see it advertised as "California" anything though (except for a particular type of sushi roll).

Maybe the problem is, I spent most of my life in NYC or NJ, and on the east coast and just for example, when you see people eating in NYC, talking kind of on the loud side, discussing (to others it is arguing always) and ramming the food down their mouths and waving their hands, buying people drinks, smiling and laughing and sharing with people they do not even know, and many other things----as compared to when i visit a California restaurant, the people are mostly reserved, quite, dressed a bit better often times, whisper when they talk, wipe their mouths after every bite and seldom share anything with strangers and unknown people as a general rule, and many other things, to me it becomes a bit clearer as to the lifestyle and overpriced everything in California.
I assume the New Yorkers are loud because their ears are still ringing from the subway.
I see more sharing in California, especially of the excellent weed.

I have a family member in Riverside County in a city called Hemet.  Lots of Asians, my god, they paid upwards of $500,000 for a house that sells for $200,000 in most parts of the country or less, maybe $325,000 in the suburbs of NYC.
They got robbed.  I don't see anything that high in Hemet on Zillo.  Most less than half that.

Taxes are triple if not quadrupled out there.  Their car registrations and insurance are as well.
Compared to New York?? I don't think so.

I have an in-law out in Rancho/Palm Springs area.  OMG, not a mansion, a 2,300 sq foot house, over $700,000!  We went for a quick bite to eat in a strip shopping center food place, nothing fancy, a step above fast food and a long way south of a fancy place.  2 people, quick lunch of sandwiches, close to $40.00.
Certainly real estate has gotten quite expensive where there is high demand,  especially in the Bay Area. That has driven up commercial rents as well, and those costs must be passed on to customers.

Whenever you are, it's pricier it you don't know the area.

Pizza out there, I am not an expert.  Ate at many places, not familiar with the SF area except Daly City and Vallejo.  Mostly Asian stuff again.  Anyway, I agree with the under-cooked and the heavy toppings.  But once again, some type of fancy vegetables with 'special house drizzle' of something and an inflated price tag, all IMO and actual experiences.
I like the toppings, but give me deep dish.  Or I'll make my own.


Something has always stuck with me after all the years of visiting California after I left there.  The billboards with all the plastic surgery doctors and health related everything.

You grew up, you live, you enjoy and then you pass away.  I don't know, maybe California (Southern California?) has a different outlook?  Look good before you die and enjoy but don't spread the joy, excitement and feelings in public??
You worked and lived in the center of the movie and television industry. Isn't spreading joy and excitement their raison d 'etre? 
 How you look would have a big effect on employment for those whose work is in front of a camera.  We don't have all those plastic surgery ads up north. I suppose most of us are healthier, but surely this is not a bad thing.

Also, WalterTore said, ....." We make more $ with the heavy topped pies and I will put on whatever and how much they want. as I am not one to decide what tastes right or wrong for others".....  And, although I can not cite a California or Midwest restaurant of any type refusing to change, add or delete, something from a dish, I have run into that in NY/NJ where the owner or manager will say something along the lines of, "Sorry, we do not change our dish/item at all or put something extra on it, sorry".  Maybe it is that NY attitude or just the extreme belief it is his way or no way at his place, IDK.
You think that attitude is better?
California is a very diverse place and so are our tastes.
Title: Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
Post by: Mako13 on November 02, 2018, 05:08:08 PM
Yep, Red Boy sounds like it.

Thanks for the reminder.  I did enjoy the pizzas he made.  A very personable chap too.