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Author Topic: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results  (Read 167175 times)

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Offline The Lord Of The Pizza

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #340 on: August 10, 2016, 06:53:25 PM »
It does and it doesnít.

It does in that a wide range of assumptions were used in creating the table so that itís (ideally) not biased towards any one set of assumptions. It doesnít in that you canít specifically enter a dough temp as a variable.

The point of this chart was and is simply to help people find an educated yeast quantity starting point given a fermentation temperature and time. There are of course several other very meaningful variables, however those are the two biggies. The need for some amount of testing and tweaking is to be expected.

Given the wealth of information on this forum, you might be surprised how difficult it was to find enough usable information merely to make this chart let alone one that incorporates other variables.
I have made my absolute best pizza using your chart by the way.

I will have to post details on it when I get a chance.  It happened to be one of those Papa John's I referenced above at a 24 hour ferment adjusted with yeast quantity on your chart.  Simply amazing actually.
Cooking can be a reflection of your approach to everything. Do the best that you can and if you burn the toast, do it again, right.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #341 on: August 10, 2016, 07:00:30 PM »
I have made my absolute best pizza using your chart by the way.

I will have to post details on it when I get a chance.  It happened to be one of those Papa John's I referenced above at a 24 hour ferment adjusted with yeast quantity on your chart.  Simply amazing actually.

Awesome. Great to hear.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline parallei

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #342 on: August 10, 2016, 07:04:58 PM »
Craig or anyone else,

Does this chart take into account the temperature of the dough or just the room temperature.


I've found Craig's chart to be very helpful.  I try to adjust my water/flour/kneading time temps. to aim for the overall time/temp I'm shooting for.  That said I doubt an hour or so, one way or the other, makes much difference.

Offline carl333

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #343 on: August 11, 2016, 02:00:22 PM »
I've found Craig's chart to be very helpful.  I try to adjust my water/flour/kneading time temps. to aim for the overall time/temp I'm shooting for.  That said I doubt an hour or so, one way or the other, makes much difference.

Indeed it is quite a fascinating and useful tool. It's quite interesting to see how different the yeast amounts compare to dough recipes posted outside this forum.

Carl

Offline HansB

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #344 on: August 11, 2016, 02:10:01 PM »
Indeed it is quite a fascinating and useful tool. It's quite interesting to see how different the yeast amounts compare to dough recipes posted outside this forum.

Yep, run when you see a recipe that says use one package yeast!
Hans

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Offline carl333

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #345 on: August 11, 2016, 02:22:31 PM »
Yep, run when you see a recipe that says use one package yeast!

Hey Hans, I've seen small amount dough recipes that say use 2!!   ::)
Carl

Offline The Lord Of The Pizza

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #346 on: August 12, 2016, 04:57:58 PM »
Hey Hans, I've seen small amount dough recipes that say use 2!!   ::)
I think you could get away with it honestly, if you know how to handle it and it would not end up bad at all.

I have seen Lahey do it before and the result was actually very good. 
Cooking can be a reflection of your approach to everything. Do the best that you can and if you burn the toast, do it again, right.

Offline Bert

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #347 on: August 20, 2016, 03:26:18 PM »
I have been wanting to incorporate this table into a baker percentage calculator for a while, finaly I got it done with some help . The form corolate data that are not on the table. Try it out, let me know if it works for you or if you have any recommendation to improve it.

http://www.mightypizzaoven.com/dough-recipe-creator/
Bert

Offline werty20

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #348 on: October 29, 2016, 12:53:42 PM »
It should work for any pizza dough within reason. I've used it for NP, NY, DS, and bread. I don't know the answer to the second question. I don't use it for cold ferments, but in the room temp and warmer zones, it works pretty well for me regardless of style.
this is for room temp ?
its hot her about 25 to 30 .. now @ 7pm 27c, 58% humidity
so with 0.15 idy i need to set the dough for 2 or 3 hour only ?
sorry im new to all this stuff
thx

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #349 on: October 29, 2016, 01:51:39 PM »
this is for room temp ?
its hot her about 25 to 30 .. now @ 7pm 27c, 58% humidity
so with 0.15 idy i need to set the dough for 2 or 3 hour only ?
sorry im new to all this stuff
thx

Yes, you seem to be reading it right. There are dozens of other variables that can affect this. The chart is intended to help you find a starting point. It make take several rounds of testing and tweaking the yeast amount to settle in on a formula that works well in your unique situation.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #350 on: November 18, 2016, 02:08:19 PM »
Craig,    I've been using this chart a whole lot..love it.  I realize after all this time (Duh) I'm not sure the best way to measure my fridge temp.   And I've tried two different ways with very different results.


 Initially I popped a small thermometer in the fridge right where I store my dough..and I like to keep it pretty cool. If I go further back on this particular shelf, things freeze..whoops, too cold. So I was getting a reading of 36F. All good.  Until..I thought maybe I should do an IR reading of the container/dough. That came in at 40F  I do  understand I'm reading air temp vs surface temp.

Which should I be reading to get my best results from the chart?  I'm thinking the 36 reading must be pretty accurate since I've had items freeze just a little further back on this shelf.


Thanks

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #351 on: November 18, 2016, 04:41:52 PM »
Going off the predicted time from the chart, which temp closest to correct?
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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #352 on: November 18, 2016, 06:27:13 PM »
Well, I left the thermometer sitting on top of the bulk container all day and it was a 39...so that must be the right number. Must be that when I placed  it in the fridge for the 36 degree readings, it was a bit behind where the container is...Temperatures must fall off quickly with distance from front to back..Is there an inverse square law or such in effect with temperature like there is with light ? Well, anyway...


I'd say that sometimes I've been a touch more fermented than I want, and if I'm working with numbers for 36 and I'm actually at 40 that could explain it...Probably not as noticeable or crucial when I'm using very low amounts of IDY and going  for long CF's  . But when I'm in the .3-.5 range I can see that a few degrees could make a noticeable difference.


I'm not sure I had understood how using a poolish factors into the charts..I think you  once said that that would be outside the information the chart could provide..But based on my  doughs, it seems that the chart lines up just fine withe the total amount of IDY in the dough even when a poolish is used. . On top of this, I'm often doing a Fazzari  re-ball / late-ball, which he describes as re- setting the dough. His doughs often have .5 IDY and have been in CF for a number of days. By the chart, they would be ready to bake, but he is proofing them at Rt for a number of hours...and in a pretty warm kitchen, and getting great bakes...so I can see that there are many variables to it .


Thanks Craig!

Offline parodius4

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #353 on: November 20, 2016, 06:21:53 AM »
First of all many thanks for providing this. It really helped me to get numbers that work for me more consistently. I also used it together with the SD chart  to see the relations when I mix SD and yeast in a dough.
And it made me use my milligram scale for yeast...

Feedback:
I use IDY and found I need to adjust thevalues at around a factor of 1.6
Eg when the chart calls for say 0.064% then 0.1% work better for me with the given time.
Or the other way when the predicted is 10h then I'm closer to what I think works after 16h.

Maybe IDY here is a little weaker or I look for more fermentation idk, either way it doesn't matter much as the relations between the values seem to work pretty good.

Greetings

Offline HansB

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #354 on: November 20, 2016, 07:13:10 AM »
First of all many thanks for providing this. It really helped me to get numbers that work for me more consistently. I also used it together with the SD chart  to see the relations when I mix SD and yeast in a dough.
And it made me use my milligram scale for yeast...

Feedback:
I use IDY and found I need to adjust thevalues at around a factor of 1.6
Eg when the chart calls for say 0.064% then 0.1% work better for me with the given time.
Or the other way when the predicted is 10h then I'm closer to what I think works after 16h.

Maybe IDY here is a little weaker or I look for more fermentation idk, either way it doesn't matter much as the relations between the values seem to work pretty good.

Greetings

I'm at about the same place with IDY. Straight off the chart does not give me enough fermentation.
Hans

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #355 on: November 22, 2016, 09:58:57 PM »
The table is only intended to help you find a starting place. Some testing and tweaking may be necessary.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline dkl1971

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #356 on: February 18, 2017, 09:22:08 AM »
Hi,
I'm new to this. Roccbox just arrived and I want to make the most of it. A friendly forumite pointed me towards the graph on p8 but what exactly am I looking at? I've read through and I don't think I've found the answer, apologies if it's there in black and white.
Fermentation time based on ambient temp makes sense but what are the % figurs at the top?
I guessing volume of yeast used. For now I have dried yeast sachets (7g) which is ADY I think. But is it volume of dried yeast to water or mix this as recommended on the box and then the percentage is volume of yeast liquid to weight of other dry ingredients.
It seems to make sense that a higher percentage of yeast speeds up fermentation.
For other attempts in the kitchen the rise has been done in the bottom oven of the Aga. Warm but not hot.
What do you do with the dough if you don't want it immediately? If the ferm time is up by early am but the party isn't til the pm do you just put it to one side/in the fridge or does that defeat the object?
I shall do more digging as answers must be out there, just I haven't found them yet.
Many thanks

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #357 on: February 18, 2017, 10:47:07 AM »
The %'s on the top are "baker's percent" measurement for the yeast. It's the amount of yeast as a function of the flour weight. For example, notice that for 8 hours at 77F, it says you need 0.063% ADY. If you are using 1500g of flour, you would use 1500g * 0.00063 = 0.95g ADY. Most of the recipes on the forum are expressed in baker's % because it lets you easily scale them from a single ball to a 50lb sack of flour or more. When you see the %'s here it's almost always the % flour weight for all the ingredients.

A note on the table, there are a lot of variables it does not attempt to capture. It gives a middle of the road estimate, and based on your unique environment, you may have to test and tweak a bit to get things just how you want them. This is the latest version of the table (it's the same math as the one you asked about, but with an additional significant digit on the yeast %'s) https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.200
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline dkl1971

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #358 on: February 18, 2017, 10:58:42 AM »
Many thanks Craig, one more bit of the puzzle.
David

Offline gfgman

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #359 on: March 31, 2017, 09:53:49 AM »
Ok, so this thread is exactly where I want to be this morning.  Can someone help me out with the math, if you don't mind.  A long time ago, I concludeded based on Craig's chart, that the percentage of IDY for a 4 hour ferment, or an overnight ferment, was equal to slightly over 1/4 tsp. for 9.5 ounces of All Trumps. 
If I use 1/2 tsp. for 9.5 ounces, what percentage am I using?

Here's what I've observed.  With 1/4 tsp. and about 3 to 4 hours, my dough ball does not double, but it does handle really well.  It doesn't taste underdeveloped, but it does stretch pretty thin.  Longer than 4 hours, I can't say that it doubles, but it does get difficult to work with and has lots of air bubbles.

So last night, I used 1/2 tsp.  My experience was the same as other times I used that amount.  I was expecting it to be overblown by 4 hours.  Instead, the dough ball was doubled in size, and it was beautiful to work with.  I would say it was definitely much closer to what I observe from my local NY pizzeria, if not spot on.  The finished crust was still fairly thin, but I would describe it as meatier, with a better rim. 

I'm trying to wrap my brain around my observations.  How a dough ball with 1/4 tsp. IDY can go from decent at 4 hours to turning into garbage beyond that, and a dough ball with 1/2 tsp. IDY can also go 4 hours and be beautiful to work with.  I was thinking less yeast, more time or more yeast, less time equals the same dough ball just with a variation in flavor. 
Knowing what percentage of yeast I used will be a start. 

Thanks!

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