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Offline fazzari

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My fellow reballers!
« on: February 15, 2015, 11:02:36 PM »
Here is a method I've been using as of late to make amazing dough!  First of all, I am of the opinion that reballing aging dough balls gives a much better texture to your crust.  In fact, I don't even think its a close call.  The problems arise with the reballing process though, in that sometimes it is hard to close the dough ball completely.  So, I've come up with another train of thought.  Dough doesn't necessarily need to be reballed to get the great texture, all you need to do is bulk ferment your dough, and cut pieces out of this dough as needed and when needed to ball and use.  For a better explanation, here is what I'm doing this week.

flour                      100%
cold water              64
olive oil                     2
salt                           3
yeast                        .5

Placed all ingredients in KA and mixed 1 minute.  Let rest 5 minutes.  Mixed again for 1 minute.  Placed dough on a lightly oiled sheet pan and did a stretch and fold to arrange my dough.  After a 30 minute rest, I followed with a fold, a 30 minute rest, a fold, a 30 minute rest, a fold, a 30 minute rest, and one last fold.  This dough was then wrapped and place in the my fridge for a bulk fermentation.

On the night before I'm going to use a dough, I simply cut a piece of dough from the bulk to weight, ball it and place back in the fridge until the next morning.  Balling this dough is as simple as balling your dough after initial mixing.

My first dough was cut from the bulk which had been in the fridge 24 hours.  It was balled, refrigerated and taken out the next day 4 hours prior to bake.  Excellent crust.  As member Essen would say it has an egg shell bottom crust.  By the way, if you ever experience an egg shell bottom, you will also find that biting into the pizza is like biting into a cloud.  The crust seems almost weightless.

So, here's the first dough

John

Offline fazzari

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2015, 11:06:56 PM »
And here is my second dough.  It was cut from the bulk dough in my fridge (48 hours), it was balled and refrigerated overnight and taken out 4 hours prior to bake.  Another amazing egg shell crust!!
 John

Offline PizzaManic

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2015, 09:05:31 AM »
OOOOOhhhhhh you make me Jealous  :drool: - I only dream of my Pizza's looking like that and when you mention Egg Shell - that really sound light and airy - something I always look for in Pizza,

Well done - will try this tip next time - If only I can get more and more people to eat the tons of Pizza I anticipate to make  :-D
Regards Mo

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2015, 09:18:54 AM »
John,

Very nicely done, as usual.

Can you give us an idea of a typical dough ball weight and corresponding pizza size?

Peter

Offline Essen1

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2015, 04:06:37 PM »
John,

Glad to see you got that egg shell effect. I love it. It's one of those rare "oooh & aaahh" moments for us homebakers.  ;D
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

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Offline JD

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2015, 04:25:00 PM »
Have you tried this method with a lower hydration dough (closer to 60)? I wonder if the high hydration is a large contributor to the egg-shell crust?
JD's NY Style
JD's Neapolitan using my Pizza Party WFO

You cannot teach experience.

-Josh

Offline carl333

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2015, 05:51:56 PM »
I'd like to try this

As a newbie and for many of us here I have some questions. It may be evident to others but I'm not so sure
1- what speed in the KA?
2- dough hook?
3- stretch and fold. Is that just stretching the dough just once and folding it over itself?
4- temp of water?
5- when you say wrapped, it that coating the dough with oil and putting it in a plastic bag?
6-AP/BF??
Carl

Offline fazzari

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2015, 07:01:47 PM »
MO
If you make them, they will come!!!

Peter
This batch of dough I'm pulling 13 ounce dough balls.  I try to make them 12 to 13 inches, but not much more, any thinner you're wasting the excellent texture!!

Mike
The first time you described the egg shell, it hit me right between the eyes, because it is a perfect explanation.  The cloud like texture of the top was explained by a guy I shared one of these with once...and it is right on also!

JD
You will never know how many pizzas I've made these past years.  I first thought it was the higher hydrations that gave me the texture, but when I started lowering them I realized it was the timing of the ball that matters the most.  Believe me
when I tell you, I've been all over the board with different hydrations.

John

Offline fazzari

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2015, 07:20:42 PM »
I'd like to try this

As a newbie and for many of us here I have some questions. It may be evident to others but I'm not so sure
1- what speed in the KA?
2- dough hook?
3- stretch and fold. Is that just stretching the dough just once and folding it over itself?
4- temp of water?
5- when you say wrapped, it that coating the dough with oil and putting it in a plastic bag?
6-AP/BF??

Ok Carl, here we go
1.  I use first speed with either the hook or the paddle for approximately 1 minute.  All I'm trying to do is gather all the ingredients into one mass of dough.  The second minute of mixing, I up the speed a bit....it's really not the important issue here though.

2.  Here's a basic video demonstrating a stretch and fold   

3.  Since I'm going to leave my dough in bulk, I use as cold a water as I get from my tap...I haven't checked the temp

4.  After the final fold, I place my dough in a bowl big enough to hold it, and place the bowl in a plastic bag to keep air out.

5.  I'm using All Trumps high gluten flour for this, any bread flour will do though.  I like King Arthur flour alot and its available locally

Best wishes Carl

John

Offline fazzari

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2015, 07:23:30 PM »
Here is the pizza we had for lunch today.  The dough ball was taken from the bulk dough which had been refrigerated 3 days.  It was balled, refrigerated and taken out this morning and set out about 4 hours.  Another excellent pizza!!!

John

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Offline carl333

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2015, 12:20:40 PM »
Ok Carl, here we go
1.  I use first speed with either the hook or the paddle for approximately 1 minute.  All I'm trying to do is gather all the ingredients into one mass of dough.  The second minute of mixing, I up the speed a bit....it's really not the important issue here though.

2.  Here's a basic video demonstrating a stretch and fold   

3.  Since I'm going to leave my dough in bulk, I use as cold a water as I get from my tap...I haven't checked the temp

4.  After the final fold, I place my dough in a bowl big enough to hold it, and place the bowl in a plastic bag to keep air out.

5.  I'm using All Trumps high gluten flour for this, any bread flour will do though.  I like King Arthur flour alot and its available locally

Best wishes Carl

John

Thank you John for your response and posting of the video, I appreciate it.

When you mention "did a stretch and fold to arrange my dough.  After a 30 minute rest, I followed with a fold, a 30 minute rest, a fold, a 30 minute rest, a fold, a 30 minute rest, and one last fold" is the folds followed by the initial stretch and fold additional stretch and folds or are they just a simple fold?

I assume your used a standard home oven. What was your bake time, at what temp and what substrate did you use?

Thanks John. I am going to try this over the weekend and report back. For the pizza experts here and reading this, can you suggest anything John may have left out that may not be apparent to us newbies here.

edit. What did you notice different between 24 and 72 hrs. Any degregation in quality/taste as time went on? Can I ball at night, remove from fridge in ther morn and counter rest until I get home 8 hrs later?

edit again. The more I think about this, the more questions come to mind. When you say bulk ferment, the 1st thing that comes to mind is your making a ton of this but then you mention KA so i'm thinking at most just enough for a few pizzas. If I'm making just a couple of 13 oz balls,  can I just divide in half after the folds and store it in individual containers and then reball from there?  I'm thinking bulk fermenting just a couple of dough balls as opposed to fermenting in separate containers should not make a difference but then what do I know. Comments pls John.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 01:53:18 PM by carl333 »
Carl

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2015, 02:13:39 PM »


  I'm on this John...thank you!   :chef:
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Offline carl333

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2015, 02:17:18 PM »

  I'm on this John...thank you!   :chef:

Thank you Bob
Carl

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2015, 02:33:54 PM »
Thank you Bob

  Sorry Carl, my statement was just referring to my trying this latest version of John's.
Most of you questions are too particular to exactly what he did that hasn't already been mentioned so we'll just wait for John to return.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline carl333

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2015, 02:55:15 PM »
  Sorry Carl, my statement was just referring to my trying this latest version of John's.
Most of you questions are too particular to exactly what he did that hasn't already been mentioned so we'll just wait for John to return.

I thought you were a pizzaiolo guy and had all the answers to my queries.  ;D  Not knowing your pizza making credentials I bet you wouldn't be far off, right? 

Good to see that there are 2 making this recipe. When you starting, we can post our pics/results simultaneously. We gotta prove to John its no fluke and his recipe is can be replicated by all. Me the rookie you the pizzaiolo. Anyone else?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 03:02:46 PM by carl333 »
Carl

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2015, 03:13:52 PM »
I thought you were a pizzaiolo guy and had all the answers to my queries.  ;D  Not knowing your pizza making credentials I bet you wouldn't be far off, right? 

Good to see that there are 2 making this recipe. When you starting, we can post our pics/results simultaneously. We gotta prove to John its no fluke and his recipe is can be replicated by all. Me the rookie you the pizzaiolo. Anyone else?

   Actually, I do know John's methodology fairly well so PM me if he doesn't return before you are ready to start.
The "folds" part were indeed all stretch and folds most probably.
For the bake parameters, John also owns a pizzeria but I'm sure I have some saved messages from him that covers this type of pizza he is doing.


John...oh John....help me please Mr. Wizard!!  :o
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline carl333

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2015, 03:23:38 PM »
   Actually, I do know John's methodology fairly well so PM me if he doesn't return before you are ready to start.
The "folds" part were indeed all stretch and folds most probably.
For the bake parameters, John also owns a pizzeria but I'm sure I have some saved messages from him that covers this type of pizza he is doing.


John...oh John....help me please Mr. Wizard!!  :o

I'm starting in an hour using KABF. The baking parameters can wait.   when you starting?
Carl

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2015, 03:28:31 PM »
I'm starting in an hour using KABF. The baking parameters can wait.   when you starting?
 

I'm making a Chi thin pizza as we speak but I can make that dough a lil later today to play along.   8)

I'm going to use GM BB.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 03:30:13 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline carl333

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2015, 05:14:49 PM »
 

I'm making a Chi thin pizza as we speak but I can make that dough a lil later today to play along.   8)

I'm going to use GM BB.

Good to hear your with me my friend. The pic is as it came out of the mixer. My flour was 50F so I upped my water temp to 68 with a dough temp of 66 after the KA mix. Not good at stretching and folding, dough was kinda like rubber on 1st fold. Went with 3 dough balls at 13 oz each.

edit. for the 2nd fold, dough was more extensible
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 05:20:33 PM by carl333 »
Carl

Offline carl333

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Re: My fellow reballers!
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2015, 05:21:50 PM »
 

I'm making a Chi thin pizza as we speak but I can make that dough a lil later today to play along.   8)

I'm going to use GM BB.

what's a Chi pizza?
Carl

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