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Author Topic: What is full fermentation?  (Read 964 times)

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Offline Wannabe Accie

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What is full fermentation?
« on: June 07, 2016, 02:29:01 PM »
Hello

I have a question regarding the definition of a fully fermented dough. What is the result in a technical way?

I know that there is yeast and enzymatic activity (protease and amylase). But I do not believe that "fully" means that all starches and proteins have been digested.

Thank you all for any enlightenment
Wannabe

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What is full fermentation?
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2016, 03:00:33 PM »
I'd say "fully fermented" is not the goal - rather "properly fermented," and the definition varies from person-to-person and is whatever makes your perfect pizza.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Wannabe Accie

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Re: What is full fermentation?
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2016, 03:21:03 PM »
Ok. So what is your timing aimed at regarding your fermentation model  (SD and Yeast)? On personal opinion regarding taste?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What is full fermentation?
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2016, 03:49:12 PM »
The fermentation models attempt to condense a lot of data points into sets of algorithms that are then used to extend the time-temp-yeast/culture quantity across a broad range of possibilities. They are intended to give you a good starting point, but some amount of testing and tweaking should be expected. Time, temperature, and initial yeast/culture quantity are the three most important variables in the range of doughs we typically work with but there are all sorts of others such as the specific formula and workflow and the myriad of tiny variables that are unique to each person. The model inherently assumes a relatively normal distribution of the impact of everything other than time, temp, and initial quantity and predicts the most likely outcome.

Overall, I think what precisely constitutes "ready to bake" is largely a matter of personal taste and pizza style.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Wannabe Accie

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What is full fermentation?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2016, 03:53:01 PM »
On this topic, Tom Lehmanns reply #1: He states that the first full rise is at about 2/3 of the time of full fermentation.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=43378.0

So, when properly fermented is my goal with regards to personal preferences (dough handling, taste, texture) I am still curious about the definition of a "fully fermented" dough.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 03:55:39 PM by Wannabe Accie »

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What is full fermentation?
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2016, 04:20:30 PM »
On this topic, Tom Lehmanns reply #1: He states that the first full rise is at about 2/3 of the time of full fermentation.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=43378.0

So, when properly fermented is my goal with regards to personal preferences (dough handling, taste, texture) I am still curious about the definition of a "fully fermented" dough.

Is Tom's reply a breadmaking definition or a pizzamaking definition. I certainly don't ferment my pizza that much.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Wannabe Accie

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Re: What is full fermentation?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2016, 04:44:20 PM »
Is Tom's reply a breadmaking definition or a pizzamaking definition. I certainly don't ferment my pizza that much.

I have read it a few times now and can not tell. A quick google on some terms lead to more bread related sites than pizza related ones. Not talking about content and quality. that may just be because of wider popularity of breadmaking.

I guess I will take a seat and wait for Tom Lehmann to answer the question.


Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: What is full fermentation?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2016, 05:18:56 PM »
My response to "full fermentation" pertains to any kind of yeast fermented dough. I think where there might be some confusion is in the question itself where "full" fermentation was referenced. Full fermentation pertains to the maximum amount of fermentation that a dough, made under specific conditions by a specific formulation can be fermented without imparting weakness to the dough. I think what you are referring to is "optimum" fermentation which is an entirely different thing. Optimum fermentation is the amount of fermentation a dough receives to make any desired product, be it bread, rolls, or pizza. Because in pizza production we are typically more concerned over the flavor imparted by fermentation, as long as the dough exhibits performance characteristics acceptable for the way we are making the pizza we can use just about any fermentation time we need to use. While extended fermentation periods will substantially weaken the dough structure, unless we are planning to win a contest for the largest hand tossed pizza skin, it really doesn't make that much difference if it's weak or not. Some weakness is desirable as it allows for easier opening of the skin and reduces or eliminates shrinkage/snap back while too much can  result in a dough that tears too easily or is sticky to work with. In short, optimum fermentation for a dough is the amount of fermentation that the dough is subjected to which allows it to produce the desired end product. Because of the number of variables driving dough fermentation it is all but impossible to speculate, outside of broad generalities, what the optimum fermentation for a dough might be. This is where the fun part of making pizza begins, experimenting with your dough to identify the optimum processing/dough management parameters.
I'm sorry for any confusion.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

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