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Offline naval2006

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My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« on: June 10, 2019, 11:06:54 AM »
I've been reading all the forums at this site the day I signed up and I've learned so much about pizza making, dough handling and cold fermenting and how to achieve a great pizza in your home oven that I finally decided to try it out and photograph my pizza. 

I've been making pizza for a long time because my mum has always had magic hands for pizza so in my teens I told her to let me try and she taught me her pizza recipe which is pretty much like a Neapolitan pizza.  In Argentina we have a very strong Italian culture that has influenced our cooking a lot and this is a country of lots of pizza and pasta making.

So this time I had a simple flour, salt, oil and instant yeast ball that I had cold fermented for 24 hs and then I froze it.  My mum gave an old seasoned stoned she no longer used and a peel and I tried for the first time to cook what we call in Argentina a pizza "a la piedra".

On data about dough I honestly can't say much about it because I'd made it before getting on this forum but roughly it was what usually do which is all purpose flour 100%, water 62%, oil 1%, salt 2% yeast 0,5%.  I knead by hand for about 10/15 min. and let it raise for a while in a bowl before putting in fridge for the next day.

The day I cooked I took the dough out of the fridge (had previously defrozen in fridge for 24 hs) and made two 250 gr. balls that I let rest for 2 hours at room temp.  I heated gas oven for 1 hour with stone in bottom third and I baked two 10" pizzas.  Simply tomato sauce I always make and fresh mozzarella cheese from my local diary.  The second pizza I also put some dried tomato in olive oil. 

The first pic is from my first pizza I cooked for 8 minutes.  I decided I needed two more minutes for the second pie so I adjusted accordingly





Offline naval2006

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2019, 11:20:37 AM »
I couldn't finish my post so I'll do it now.  I think there's a lot to improve but this is pizza I feel ok about to start improving I think.  I've definitely learned a lot about things I had never heard even when I spent many years making pizza at home.  So I thank all the cool people in this forum that share their knowledge and experiences because it's really inspiring for all of those who want to take pizza one or two rungs up the ladder.

Cheers,

Alex

Offline vdempsey

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2019, 08:42:47 AM »
Hello Alex,

Your pizza looks nice. I especially like the 2nd pizza.

Vida
Vida - Naturally leavened pizza made at home electric oven, iron pan too.

Offline PizzAmateur

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2019, 09:06:22 AM »
Very nice looking pizzas Alex!  I might even say excellent!  I cook the same or similar size nearly every day.

Nice crumb structure and I am a bit jealous. (grin)

You obviously have done this before as you stated. ;D

What temp is your oven and how much do your dough balls weigh?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 09:10:03 AM by PizzAmateur »

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2019, 09:39:52 AM »
In Argentina we have a very strong Italian culture that has influenced our cooking a lot and this is a country of lots of pizza and pasta making.

I've been using a nice wedge of Reggianito cheese lately in my pizza making!
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Offline naval2006

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2019, 11:57:59 AM »
I've been using a nice wedge of Reggianito cheese lately in my pizza making!

Oh, reggianito is one of our strong hard cheeses.  They go from milder to stronger Sardo, Reggianito and Parmesano.  All great types of cheese for grating on pasta or pizza.  There's two diary mills in my area so there's a strong competition for the better cheese and we can get it fresh from the factory same as mozzarella and other types. 

Very nice looking pizzas Alex!  I might even say excellent!  I cook the same or similar size nearly every day.

Nice crumb structure and I am a bit jealous. (grin)

You obviously have done this before as you stated. ;D

What temp is your oven and how much do your dough balls weigh?

Thank you.  I took it down in case somebody on the forum wanted to know.  I made 250 gram balls that stretched to 9" and cooked in gas oven with stone floor and the pizza stone like 3" above for 8 and 10 minutes.  The 10 minute pizza looks way better I think.  I prefer a thinner crust  but as I didn't want to have a peel drama I went a bit thicker LOL.

Hello Alex,

Your pizza looks nice. I especially like the 2nd pizza.

Vida

Thank you Vida.  Yes the first pizza was a bit short of oven but I was playing safe just not to mess up.

I'm not into classifying pizzas by type but how would you classify this pizza?

Offline PizzAmateur

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2019, 12:07:14 PM »
Oh, reggianito is one of our strong hard cheeses.  They go from milder to stronger Sardo, Reggianito and Parmesano.  All great types of cheese for grating on pasta or pizza.  There's two diary mills in my area so there's a strong competition for the better cheese and we can get it fresh from the factory same as mozzarella and other types. 

Thank you.  I took it down in case somebody on the forum wanted to know.  I made 250 gram balls that stretched to 9" and cooked in gas oven with stone floor and the pizza stone like 3" above for 8 and 10 minutes.  The 10 minute pizza looks way better I think.  I prefer a thinner crust  but as I didn't want to have a peel drama I went a bit thicker LOL.

Thank you Vida.  Yes the first pizza was a bit short of oven but I was playing safe just not to mess up.

I'm not into classifying pizzas by type but how would you classify this pizza?

That's a lot of dough for a 10" pizza, but the results look really good.  I started out making 8"-10" pizzas with 120 gram balls, but have slowly brought it up to 160 grams.

However, if 250 grams works for you, then don't change a thing!

I don't know how to classify your pizzas either, but as they look similar to mine, I would say they are a version of "American style".

Surely someone with more knowledge and experience will come along and correct me shortly.  ;D :chef:

Offline naval2006

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2019, 01:09:47 PM »
It would be great if those who really know would give the weight of a ball for 8”, 10”, 14” and 16” for NY style to have a reference.

Offline PizzAmateur

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2019, 01:15:31 PM »
It would be great if those who really know would give the weight of a ball for 8”, 10”, 14” and 16” for NY style to have a reference.

I am sure Pete-zza will eventually post where that information is, as I am sure such a general list already exists somewhere.  I just don't know off-hand where it is.

Have patience my friend.  ;)

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2019, 03:58:27 PM »
It would be great if those who really know would give the weight of a ball for 8”, 10”, 14” and 16” for NY style to have a reference.
naval2006,

Unfortunately, there is no single answer to your request. The reason is that the pizza professionals in NYC who specialize in the classic NY slice style of pizza do not use the same dough ball weights for their different sizes of pizzas.

By way of background, the way that a dough ball weight can be calculated for a give size of pizza can be expressed as follows:

Dough ball weight (in ounces) = 3.14159 x R x R x TF (see below for grams values),

where R is the radius of the pizza and TF is the thickness factor of the particular size of pizza and relates broadly to the thickness of the skin used to make the pizza. Tom Lehmann uses the technically more accurate designation of "dough loading" factor in lieu of thickness factor as you will see below.

From what I have read over the years and have observed from posts on the forum, the TF value for a basic NY style of pizza can range from about 0.075-10.5. But, within that range, I would say that a TF value of about 0.085 seems to be quite common. In a home setting using my basic oven and a pizza stone, I personally prefer a TF value of about 0.10. It is simply a matter of personal preference. Tom Lehmann recently suggested a general value of 0.106 for the loading factor (aka TF) for the New York style of pizza, as he noted in his post at Reply 10 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=57738.msg579490#msg579490

However, in a slightly earlier post he expressed a personal preference for a 12 inch NY style pizza of 0.08849, as he so noted in Reply 8 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=57535.msg577327;topicseen#msg577327

My advice to you is to select a value of TF and make adjustments from there. I think a good starting point would be a TF value of 0.085. I should also mention that if you have a given dough recipe in mind that is expressed in baker's percents, you can use thickness factor values in the Lehmann dough calculating tool at https://www.pizzamaking.com/dough-calculator.html or if your ingredients are not all covered in the Lehmann tool, you can use the expanded dough calculating tool at https://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded-calculator.html. Both tools will give you dough ball weights in ounces or in grams, as you prefer (the grams value of a dough ball is 28.35 times the weight of the dough ball in ounces).

I should also note that many pizzerias and pizza chains do not always use the same thickness factors for all of their sizes of pizzas. Part of the reason has to do with having easy numbers for scaling purposes (that is, no fractions or several decimal places) but the variations in weights may also be related to how their ovens handle different sizes of pizzas with a wide range of weights because of the toppings selections.

Good luck.

Peter

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Offline naval2006

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2019, 04:39:35 PM »
Peter,

Thank you very much for such a complete answer to my question. I’m kneading dough tomorrow so I’ll use the chart to measure ingredients carefully and we’ll see to it on Friday. 

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2019, 05:02:52 PM »
I finally decided to try it out and photograph my pizza. 

IMO, practice and photographs are two of the most important things you can do to improve your pizzamaking.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline vdempsey

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2019, 09:46:21 PM »

Thank you Vida.  Yes the first pizza was a bit short of oven but I was playing safe just not to mess up.

I'm not into classifying pizzas by type but how would you classify this pizza?

Alex,
I'm no expert as I recently just started making pizzas too.  PizzAmateur contributed by saying "they are a version of "American style".

The description of American Style under Pizza Making on this forum says: Pizza Americana is a medium to thin crust pie that is crispy on the outside, yet soft inside. Found at popular pizzerias throughout the U.S. including Papa John's, Domino's, and Pizza Hut .

What do you think?
Vida - Naturally leavened pizza made at home electric oven, iron pan too.

Offline naval2006

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2019, 06:32:57 AM »
I haven’t seen lots of types of pizza save in pictures. But I remember Papa Johns from the days I was a college student at UNC Chapel Hill. Friday was jalapeño pizza night at the dorm. I could never replicate that pizza because of ingredients and the way we make pizza at home.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2019, 09:38:21 AM »
I haven’t seen lots of types of pizza save in pictures. But I remember Papa Johns from the days I was a college student at UNC Chapel Hill. Friday was jalapeño pizza night at the dorm. I could never replicate that pizza because of ingredients and the way we make pizza at home.
naval2006,

You might take a look at the first few pages of this thread:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58195#msg58195

Peter

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Offline naval2006

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2019, 04:39:37 PM »
I’ll definitely give this formula a try.

I was wondering if any of the ingredient percentages must be altered since our bakers flour is between 10 and 11,5 protein. We call 000 flour and it’s the flour used in bakeries and pizzerias all over the country. So it works wonderfully for pizza making but I notice some recipes with pretty high content of oil, sugar or honey.  We can’t get high protein flour but I can get semolina remacinata which is the main ingredient in fresh pasta making. I’ve been experimenting with 25% semolina and i got pretty decent pies.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2019, 08:06:16 PM »
I’ll definitely give this formula a try.

I was wondering if any of the ingredient percentages must be altered since our bakers flour is between 10 and 11,5 protein. We call 000 flour and it’s the flour used in bakeries and pizzerias all over the country. So it works wonderfully for pizza making but I notice some recipes with pretty high content of oil, sugar or honey.  We can’t get high protein flour but I can get semolina remacinata which is the main ingredient in fresh pasta making. I’ve been experimenting with 25% semolina and i got pretty decent pies.
naval2006,

You might want to start by using the dough formulation either at Reply 20 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg59217#msg59217 or a later, and perhaps a somewhat more accurate version, at Reply 585 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg273667.html#msg273667. I mention these formulations since they are much easier to make than the long, cold fermented version that was posted in Reply 2 of the PJ clone thread. What I suggest you do is to make a few changes to the two formulations in the amount of water. Since the flour that you will be using perhaps has an absorption value of around 59-60%, you should strive to have the combined percents of the oil and water be equal to that value. If you'd like, you can also adjust the value of the oil but keep the total percents of oil and water at the abovementioned value. If you'd like, you can use the expanded dough calculating tool at https://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded-calculator.html to come up with the most accurate numbers for a roughly 20-21 ounce dough ball.

Once you see how the formulation that you use works out, you can always make adjustments if needed.

Peter

Offline naval2006

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Re: My first attempt at pizza on a stone
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2019, 01:52:35 PM »
I baked today four pies with this Reinhart NY style formula

https://www.fornobravo.com/pizzaquest/ny-style-pizza-dough/

I used the pizza dough calculator to make 4 11" pies with a 0.095 TF.  I left the dough rise 24 hs in fridge.

The first pizza is just homemade tomato sauce and  fresh shredded mozz.  The other one the same with cherry tomatoes in spicy olive oil and the third is tomato sauce, Italian sausage, red pepper flakes and olive oil.

Thank you very much Peter for your recommendations, it's been great help and still there's a long road to go, especially with handling and stretching.  But this is a great way of experimenting and staying motivated to change and improve.

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