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Author Topic: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here  (Read 2650 times)

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HarryHaller73

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Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« on: November 12, 2017, 09:58:03 PM »
Wonder why.

Offline StateofMind

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 01:57:11 AM »
My guess is because California style pizza isn't real popular with pizza lovers in California. While I do experiment with some exotic toppings and flavors I don't consider my pies "California style". I consider the style to be a little gimmicky like the stuff at CPK and some of the things that Wolfgang Puck have done with pizza.   
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 10:55:33 AM by StateofMind »

Offline mitchjg

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 09:51:46 AM »
To the extent that a California pizza is primarily unusual / exotic toppings, etc., I do make California Style pizzas with some frequency.  For example, one of our regular "go-to" pizzas is a BLT.  We also make date and red onion (plain white sauce) pies as well as BBQ meats with BBQ sauce as a base.

I tend to post in the General Pizza making section and do not get embroiled in the "name" of the style.  My pies are usually WFO, but at a lower temperature than Neapolitan and the occassional off the beaten track toppings - neither fish nor fowl no matter what kind of fish or fowl you like.

Others have done the same - make pizzas that are akin to California Style but post in the more General section  I think a great example is the several posts about Mozza's pizza.  I do not know how narrowly one can attempt to define California pizza since the likes of Wolfgang P, Chez Panisse, Mozza and CPK pizzas are all pretty different from each other - but they all have the non-traditional toppings (but not exclusively - they do tomato/cheese, too) as a common thread.

Another example is Craig's Neapolitan toppings are very non-traditional from time to time.

Regarding dough/oven and workflow, I am not sure if there is anything particularly distinctive that can be isolated as "the" style.  For example, Chez Panisse dough and Mozza dough could not be more different.

That may be why people do not post much in this section - the style is not that distinct that you can attempt to circle the wagons around it and, beyond the use of unusual toppings, the pizzas overlap other styles.

*********************

Your post sparked me to wonder why this is of interest to you since you are such a NY pizza type of a guy.  Is there a reason beyond simple curiousity?
Mitch

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 10:30:09 AM »
Wonder why.
HH73,

I attempted a while back to answer your question at Reply 3 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=22400.msg228027;topicseen#msg228027

I'm not sure that I would add much to that reply other than to say that Wolfgang Puck has become a one-man conglomerate with interests across several areas of the food biz. Also, not long before the above reply, California Pizza Kitchen had sold the business to a private equity firm. I believe that Larry Flax and Rick Rosenfield, the co-founders of California Pizza Kitchen, are still active in the business but more likely as spokepersons for the chain and assisting in marketing the chain. They are both in their 70s now. And Alice Waters is 73. And even Wolfgang is getting up there. He is 68. I think Ed Ladou's premature and untimely death drove a nail in the coffin of the so-called California style since he was at the center of that style from the beginning but it is quite possible that peoples' interest in that style would have waned anyway at some point. But I would defer to Mitch and Mike and other Californians on that point.

Peter


Offline Essen1

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 11:05:23 AM »
Peter,

I never really understood why it was called California style to begin with.

Yes, toppings were a bit more adventurous and out of the norm than your run-of-the-mill cheese & pepperoni pie but that’s where the differences end for me personally. The dough itself still leans on old traditions from Italy.

Mike

“All styles of pizza are valid. I make the best I’m capable of; you should make the best you’re capable of. I don’t want to make somebody else’s pizza.” ~ Chris Bianco

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Offline waltertore

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 12:28:26 PM »
From my observations of living in California for 15 years and now Reno for 2 years ( a Los Angeles, Sacramento, Bay area suburb now with  transplants)  The main thing that is commonly asked for by Californians are lots of toppings and I mean lots - double and even triple- on a pizza both exotic and common ones.  Next is they will load 1/2 a pie with double or more toppings and leave the other 1/2 sauce and cheese.  We are often asked to make 1/4 or 1 slice of different toppings on a pie.  We only allow 1/2's.  Most of these requests come from CA or Reno natives. Reno has becoming a CA suburb for years and is really hitting high gear today with mass exodus to a slower, less crowded,cheaper, lifestyle.  When we get a cheese pie order it is 90%+ a sure bet it is from someone from the Northeast. 

 When I hit CA in 1979 pizza there was so different that I stopped calling it pizza.  I spent 5 years on my first CA residency in SF and Sonoma County and never found a pizza that made me want to come back for another one.  Toppings were piled on at 3-5 times the amount of what I was use to,  shops allowed 1/2, 1/4 of the pizzas to have different toppings,  crusts were tasteless, soggy, sauce was amped up with spices beyond extreme to my norm.  They were always undercooked.   These observations were based on what was normal to my roots growing up in the 1950's-70's NJ/NYC pizza world where cheese pies were #1 and 1 toppings ok and 2 the max.  I have yet to find a CA pizza that makes me want to make it a regular stop.  My travels have been limited to SF, Sonoma County, and SACTO

When I go home to NJ/NYC today I find more and more deck oven  pizzerias following in the mega/exotic toppings, and allowing 1/2, 1/4 pie toppings.  Crusts today are also more bland than I grew up with and find most pizzerias have gone way downhill.  It use to be you could walk in any pizzeria in Essex County NJ and get a decent to great pie. No more. You have to know where you are going or it will be a big let down to what I grew up with.  Families don't run pizzerias like they use to and hiring off the street of unskilled pizza people has caused it to slide big time.  On a Nationwide view IMO the internet has caused regional foods, music, to be easily accessed vs. having to move there to experience it and thus a generic product is becoming more the norm everywhere.  We now have so many franchise pizzerias in Reno and many claim east coast, CA, roots.  You tell me what is the difference today with things ??? ???  I give up with it all.  I make the pizza I like and that is the end of it.  How I got there and how I do it can be classified any way you want.  I don't care cause I like it :) This a CA/Hawaii or maybe it is based out of Alabama.... chain example here in Reno.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/longboards-beach-fired-pizza-reno?osq=Longboard+Pizza

« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 12:53:08 PM by waltertore »
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Offline jsaras

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2017, 12:38:36 PM »
It's redundant as we've already infected the rest of the pizza-making world. Ciro di Salvo and Gabrielle Bonci are as Californian as anyone could possibly be.  Anthony Pinello's Best Pizza in NYC serves pizza with Calabrian chili, anchovies, pickled veggies and kale.  Case closed!
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 12:41:24 PM by jsaras »
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 12:48:13 PM »
It's redundant as we've already infected the rest of the pizza-making world. Ciro di Salvo and Gabrielle Bonci are as Californian as anyone could possibly be.  Anthony Pinello's Best Pizza in NYC serves pizza with Calabrian chili, anchovies, pickled veggies and kale.  Case closed!

Agreed.

Even the new hot spot in NYC, Williamsburg Pizza, serves exotic toppings...

Tartufo
Fresh Mozzarella, Mixed Wild Mushrooms, Rosemary & White Truffle Oil

Messina
Goat Cheese, Ricotta, Artichoke, Sopressata & Imported Black Olives

Apple Bacon

Smoked Fresh Mozzarella, Parmigiano-Reggiano, Bacon, Crushed Walnuts, Gorgonzola & Apples

Calabrese

Red Onions, Sopressata, Imported Black Olives, Homemade Fresh Mozzarella & Tomato Sauce

Kale Taleggio
Fresh Mozzarella, Kale, Sausage, Pine Nuts & Taleggio Cheese
Mike

“All styles of pizza are valid. I make the best I’m capable of; you should make the best you’re capable of. I don’t want to make somebody else’s pizza.” ~ Chris Bianco

Offline StateofMind

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2017, 01:04:59 PM »
From my observations of living in California for 15 years and now Reno for 2 years ( a Los Angeles, Sacramento, Bay area suburb now with  transplants)  The main thing that is commonly asked for by Californians are lots of toppings and I mean lots - double and even triple- on a pizza both exotic and common ones. 

While this may be true about the the desires of many Californians, I don't think that really defines the style (if there is one). And I would suggest that the lots of toppings thing is more common at the chains and mid to lower end shops here. The chain I worked for for close to 15 years definitely was heavy handed with the toppings. However a lot of the local pizza makers I like as well as my style are reasonably restrained.
And I think the Bay Area has some unbelievable pizza shops:
 Any of Tony G's spots
 Zachary's
 Pizziaolo
 A16
 Pizzeria Delfina
 The Cheeseboard
 Oak and Rye
 etc

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2017, 01:16:50 PM »
Peter,

I never really understood why it was called California style to begin with.

Yes, toppings were a bit more adventurous and out of the norm than your run-of-the-mill cheese & pepperoni pie but that’s where the differences end for me personally. The dough itself still leans on old traditions from Italy.
Mike,

When I went back to the pizza section of the CPK website, at https://www.cpk.com/menu/#original-crust-pizzas, I thought that the photo shown there looked like a lot of your pizzas. Maybe you are making a California style pizza after all :-D. All jokes aside, I think that there are several CPK pizzas in the CPK menu that lean somewhat to the traditional side. By contrast, I thought that the Ladou pizza menu was more ambitious, although he also had a section for what he deemed to be his version of the NY style.

Since I have the CPK cookbook and had followed what Wolfgang Puck was doing, I tried some of the recipes years ago to get a better feel for the California style. I posted on the subject at:

Reply 4 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10176.msg91645;topicseen#msg91645,

Reply 13 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=702.msg56174#msg56174, and

Reply 5 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5487.msg46356#msg46356.

Peter

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2017, 01:42:59 PM »
While this may be true about the the desires of many Californians, I don't think that really defines the style (if there is one). And I would suggest that the lots of toppings thing is more common at the chains and mid to lower end shops here. The chain I worked for for close to 15 years definitely was heavy handed with the toppings. However a lot of the local pizza makers I like as well as my style are reasonably restrained.
And I think the Bay Area has some unbelievable pizza shops:
 Any of Tony G's spots
 Zachary's
 Pizziaolo
 A16
 Pizzeria Delfina
 The Cheeseboard
 Oak and Rye
 etc

To add to that list...

Arinell
Marcello's
Pizza Picco
Bar Bocce
Casey's
Delfina
Del Poppolo, etc...need more?  ;D

Mike

“All styles of pizza are valid. I make the best I’m capable of; you should make the best you’re capable of. I don’t want to make somebody else’s pizza.” ~ Chris Bianco

Offline yarbrough462

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2017, 01:49:11 PM »
Agreed.

Even the new hot spot in NYC, Williamsburg Pizza, serves exotic toppings...

Tartufo
Fresh Mozzarella, Mixed Wild Mushrooms, Rosemary & White Truffle Oil

Messina
Goat Cheese, Ricotta, Artichoke, Sopressata & Imported Black Olives

Apple Bacon

Smoked Fresh Mozzarella, Parmigiano-Reggiano, Bacon, Crushed Walnuts, Gorgonzola & Apples

Calabrese

Red Onions, Sopressata, Imported Black Olives, Homemade Fresh Mozzarella & Tomato Sauce

Kale Taleggio
Fresh Mozzarella, Kale, Sausage, Pine Nuts & Taleggio Cheese

What's funny is that other than the kale, those other pies are pretty common here in Italy...

Offline mitchjg

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 01:51:15 PM »
To add to that list...

Arinell
Marcello's
Pizza Picco
Bar Bocce
Casey's
Delfina
Del Poppolo, etc...need more?  ;D

Rise Pizzeria run by fellow member Omidz in Burlingame (across the street from Delfina, haha).  Thin crust, WFO pizza, baked at about 700.  Restraint on the amount of toppings.  Lots of pizzas with traditional toppings.  Lots of pizzas with "California"/non-Traditional toppings.  Great stuff.

 https://media-cdn.getbento.com/accounts/609f3182c27e7825f5776d074e0555ac/media/accounts/media/cL9LvKRISPmSQ832C6Kw_rise%20pizzeria%20menu.pdf

Mitch

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2017, 02:00:23 PM »
Mike,

When I went back to the pizza section of the CPK website, at https://www.cpk.com/menu/#original-crust-pizzas, I thought that the photo shown there looked like a lot of your pizzas. Maybe you are making a California style pizza after all :-D. All jokes aside, I think that there are several CPK pizzas in the CPK menu that lean somewhat to the traditional side. By contrast, I thought that the Ladou pizza menu was more ambitious, although he also had a section for what he deemed to be his version of the NY style.

Since I have the CPK cookbook and had followed what Wolfgang Puck was doing, I tried some of the recipes years ago to get a better feel for the California style. I posted on the subject at:

Reply 4 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10176.msg91645;topicseen#msg91645,

Reply 13 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=702.msg56174#msg56174, and

Reply 5 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5487.msg46356#msg46356.

Peter

Peter,

Please don't tell me that! I'd have to start from scratch and perhaps reinvent the wheel... ;D

I don't think you can really slap any label on any pizza for that matter. They all follow the same basic procedure...smother a flatbread with sauce and cheese and bake in a hot oven, with perhaps Chicago being the exception. That's more of a casserole to me.

Every pizza is as unique as the man/woman making it, imo.


But why are we even here, defending this subforum? Was the OP just trying to be provocative or is he trying to imply that this subforum is basically useless because it's not as active or busy as others?
Mike

“All styles of pizza are valid. I make the best I’m capable of; you should make the best you’re capable of. I don’t want to make somebody else’s pizza.” ~ Chris Bianco

Offline jvp123

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2017, 02:02:35 PM »
I suspect the reason not many people post here is because the category has become outdated?  Or at least fused into other styles ...
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 02:16:24 PM by jvp123 »
Jeff

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Offline waltertore

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2017, 02:14:22 PM »
While this may be true about the the desires of many Californians, I don't think that really defines the style (if there is one). And I would suggest that the lots of toppings thing is more common at the chains and mid to lower end shops here. The chain I worked for for close to 15 years definitely was heavy handed with the toppings. However a lot of the local pizza makers I like as well as my style are reasonably restrained.
And I think the Bay Area has some unbelievable pizza shops:
 Any of Tony G's spots
 Zachary's
 Pizziaolo
 A16
 Pizzeria Delfina
 The Cheeseboard
 Oak and Rye
 etc


I agree that labeling an entire state a certain way is wrong but most of our CA customers are use to menus that offer a bunch of different pre determined topped pies - like one gets such and such stuff on it and is called a so and so pizza.  They often get confused by our menu as it lets the customer pick their toppings.  Maybe this leads to the people putting so many topping on a pizza??  Where I grew up the pizzas always came as cheese and the menu would list prices per size with toppings listed and how much for each but I see newer shops are following with names for pizzas and they come with set ingredients.   

Many of our CA customers  were regulars at many of the pizzerias you mentioned.  We don't come anywhere near them with types of toppings but they keep coming back for more of our pies and most say they prefer our simple approach.  We make more $ with the heavy topped pies and I will put on whatever and how much they want. as I am not one to decide what tastes right or wrong for others :).   
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 02:52:57 PM by waltertore »
SMILING WITH HOPE PIZZA MISSION STATEMENT
TO CREATE HOPE AND MEANING IN THE LIVES OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES
http://www.smilingwithhopepizza.com/

Offline StateofMind

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2017, 02:17:07 PM »
I suspect the reason not many people post here is because the category has become outdated?  Or at least fused into other styles ...

Absolutely

Offline Josh123

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2017, 03:33:24 PM »
People probably don't post here because a lot of the pizza posted here isn't NY style, but for some reason still finds it's way here. Identity crisis, imo

Offline mitchjg

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 03:42:32 PM »
People probably don't post here because a lot of the pizza posted here isn't NY style, but for some reason still finds it's way here. Identity crisis, imo

Where is "here"?  The word is used 3 times but it may be referring to more than one place?
Mitch

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Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: Lots of Cali folks on this forum but no posts here
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2017, 04:24:04 PM »
I'm a native Californian. I hate when people refer to our state as "Cali". Cali is a city in Colombia, not a U.S. state.  Many people I know feel the same way.  Just FYI and I know not all Californians agree with me.

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