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Author Topic: Horse Barn - Pizza / Stromboli  (Read 1312 times)

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Offline Buck47

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Re: Horse Barn - Pizza / Stromboli
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2019, 08:52:43 PM »
High Protein Flour (100%):
Water (56%):
IDY (0.14%):
Salt (1.9%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (5.55%):
Sugar (5.89%):
Total (169.48%

Using the recipe suggestions from reply #15 - I made two (2) batches of dough.
 
One batch using a 12 1/2% protein Winona patent flour - the second being a High Gluten bread flour.

12 inch pies from 14.5 ounce balls. Baked at 550 degree F for 7 min ( turn at 4 min)

Test results showed the appearance of both pizza's are almost identical.
However the HG flour did have a slight gum line. See photos.

The mouth feel of the HG flour had a crunch that was missing in the Winona flour. Also the center thickness on the HG flour was half that of the Winona flour allowing the flavors of the topping to not be over powered by excess dough as was the case with the Winona flour.
 
In some ways the Winona Patent flour gave the best results. A thicker airy outside crust. What was disappointing was a 3/8 to 1/2 center crust.  Far to thick. (see last photo #6 for a comparison of thickness) I believe the extra thickness of the dough is why the Pie made with the HG flour had the better taste. The extra dough thickness on the Winona flour pizza changed the flavor profile diminishing the flavors of the topping.
 
Refrigerated fermentation was 4-5 days. Tempered in a room at 78 F for four (4) hours. Opened dough at 72 F.
 
Both dough's pushed out easy, crust area was a bit delicate, careful not to deflate rim as I use a right/left hand slapping method to expand dough. No sign of gas bubbles.
 
The Winona flour produced a very nice dough.  Soft to the bite - But no crunch as with the HG flour. With the 50% of Cornicione having the nice medium to large air holes.

Next: Another test using the Winona Patent flour made into a 12.5 ounce to 14 ounce dough size to reduce the center thickness. And possibly a 50/50 mix of flours in an attempt to combine the qualities of both.

Thanks Pete-zza for all your help on this one.  :chef:
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 11:06:02 AM by Buck47 »
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Offline Buck47

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Re: Horse Barn - Pizza / Stromboli
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2019, 09:22:48 PM »
Testing a New dough formulation:

This dough can be used next day, however flavor will greatly improve by day three and usability has shown stable up to day six. Another quality I like is the length of time this dough remains workable at room temperatures.
In this test I had dough sitting out in 75 degrees for 4 1/2 hours.
 
Nice crunch to the crust, with outstanding flavor, with a bit of a chew. It's slow to push out, will tolerate a great deal of handling, possibly more water, oil or both may help in the ease of forming.
 
Sauce this time was “Classico” traditional sweet basil put through blender to smooth out chunks.
Toppings: Local "Mild Italian" sausage, mushrooms & cheese.
----------------------------------------------------------------
100%   Winona Patent flour
60%     Water
0.3%    IDY – ˝ teaspoon
1.5%    Salt
2%       Olive oil

3-10 ounce balls - Fermented 5 days.
Tempered 4 ˝ hours @ 75F ambient temp
550 degree F -  7 min bake


« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 01:13:47 AM by Buck47 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Horse Barn - Pizza / Stromboli
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2019, 09:02:52 AM »

Thanks Pete-zza for all your help on this one.  :chef:
John,

I'm glad the PJ clone dough formulation worked out for you. We really don't know exactly what flour PJ is using, and I suspect that PJ has made several flour changes over the years and has many potential suppliers, but the Winona flour you used from Bay State Milling looks like it might come close:

http://www.baystatemilling.com/ingredients/flour/traditional-bakery/

I also like the looks of your most recent pizza. I think the modest hydration value you used (60%) may have helped the dough hold out longer. The higher protein content of the Winona flour, which is milled from hard wheat, may also have helped.

Peter

Offline Park.Pizza

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Re: Horse Barn - Pizza / Stromboli
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2019, 01:09:23 PM »
Pics look great. But I'd probably ask for a little more sauce. Just my novice opinion.
Throw me a slice, won't ya

Offline Buck47

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Re: Horse Barn - Pizza / Stromboli
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2019, 08:25:29 PM »
During the past three weeks I've remade one basic dough three times. With each batch designed to test the reliability of a six day dough. Each test taking six days.

The bakes produced fairly consistent results with some slight variations.  My preferred results are on days 5 &6

After mixing the dough I would bulk ferment at room temp until double in size, then place the container in the refrigerator. on day three I then scaled and balled - returning to refrigeration, and started baking on days 4,5,6. & once on day 7 shown below in photos.

Tempering time was always 2 to 3 hours at ambient room temp of 72F.
Seven min bake @ 550 F. electric oven on 3/8 inch steel plate.

My next test will be to bulk ferment at room temp until double in size as I have done before. But this time scaling and shaping dough balls then refrigerating until time for baking.  ( before scaling & balling was done after 4 days bulk fermentation)

In the past skipping the bulk fermentation has resulted in a crust with much smaller air holes. It should not make a difference - but it has in these test.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 09:22:29 AM by Buck47 »
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Offline Buck47

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Re: Horse Barn - Pizza / Stromboli
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2019, 09:35:42 PM »
For those that want to duplicate this pizza here are the changes I have made in the mixing of this dough since my first post.

Thickness factor 0.097
571g - 100% of a 12.5 % protein flour (Winona Patent flour)
343g -  60% Tap water at between 50 - 55F
            0.3 % INDY 1/2 teaspoon (saf-instant)
9g -    1.5% salt - kosher
12g -   2% Olive oil

Makes 3 - 11 ounce balls
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Water temp 50 - 55 F
Add INDY and stir using dough hook and measure flour.
Add flour & mix about two min at speed two (2) until a shaggy ball forms. Cover Hobart mixer & Autolyse 30 min.
Add oil and salt - mix at speed two (2) - four to six min - final dough temp should fall between 73 to 78 F
Set in plastic container cover and set out room temp until doubles in bulk. This often takes 3 to 4 hours.
Place container in refig. 34-36 F. for three to four days.  Scale and ball 24 hours before using dough.
I make 3 balls at a time and often start baking on days 4,5,6

Topping load:
4 ounce sauce
5 ounce cheese
Pepperoni or mild Italian sausage

Baked on 12 inch screen. Pushed out using a bench flour mixed from 3 parts rice flour / 1 part pizza flour

7 min @ 550 F (four min - turn 180 degrees - bake additional 3 min)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 09:24:13 PM by Buck47 »
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Offline foreplease

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Re: Horse Barn - Pizza / Stromboli
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2019, 11:09:45 PM »
Fantastic work and experimenting! Your posts are fun to read.
-Tony

Offline Buck47

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Re: Horse Barn - Pizza / Stromboli
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2019, 09:38:06 AM »
Test of six day dough made on Saturday April 13 - baked on day (4) four April 17
See Reply #25 for detailed info on making this dough

After mixing the dough was bulk fermented at room temp until double in size as I have done before.
 
But this time instead of placing the dough container in the refrigerator to continue fermentation until I would scale & ball  24 hours before baking.  I shaped the dough balls then refrigerated until time for baking. Hence the bulk fermentation at room temp was only that time after mixing that it took the dough to rise to double in size.

In the past I tried skipping the bulk fermentation - scaling and balling directly after mixing then refrigerating only to find the resulting crust had much smaller air holes. It should not make a difference - but it has in these test.

Note: this post will be followed with photos of the five & six day bake from this dough.



« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 10:19:24 PM by Buck47 »
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Offline Buck47

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Re: Horse Barn - Pizza / Stromboli
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2019, 09:39:47 PM »
 Photos of the five & six day bake

Photos of the last two days of six day dough made on Saturday April 13 - baked on day (5) five April 18 & day (6) six April 19.

I find dough baked on days 5 & 6 produce the best crust with the largest air holes.

See Reply #25 for detailed info on making this dough

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In conclusion:    
This is the style pizza I set out to make.
 
Excellent complex flavor crust, light airy cornicione with large holes.
Has a long tempering time (up to 4 hours room temp 72F)
Usable window days 4-5-6
Easy and forgiving when pushing out to a 12 inch dia.

NOTE: I have changed the final mixing procedure when the salt & oil are added to the dough ball in my Kitchen aid mixer.  I was having problems with the dough ball being sticky, and sometimes hand kneed until I achieved a proper consistency dough.

Now I find that after adding the oil & salt - mixing at speed (4) - 2 to 3 min does a fine job of incorporating the oil. I then drop back to speed 2 & continue mixing for a total time of 8 min.

This has not increased the final dough temp. I'm consistently ending at 73 to 78 degree depending on if I start with 50 or 55 degree water. This is in a ambient room temp of between 68 to 74 F


   

« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 11:07:39 AM by Buck47 »
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