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Author Topic: Dough help, still not quite right  (Read 625 times)

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Offline Abouna

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Dough help, still not quite right
« on: March 30, 2019, 11:23:25 AM »
Well I don't post here often mostly because I do OK without help......most of the time.  Plus I have nothing to contribute.

Anyway, fired up the WFO for the first time this week after a harsh winter.  Everything went well for a change, being that I now make pizza alone instead of with helpers, I'm still fine tuning my dough. 

My only real issue was the elasticity of the dough.  It cooked great but shrank back once I began to handle it to shape.  Again, cooked up real nice but needs a couple tweaks and I'm not sure where to start:

- dough shrinks back once I start to shape it (underproofed?)
- would like just a bit of crispness on the bottom, mine turns out totally Neapolitan style and I'd like to firm it up a bit

Here's the dough recipe with my procedure, make 2 12" pizzas:

153 grams bread flour
153 grams all-purpose flour
8 grams fine sea salt
2 grams active dry yeast
4 grams extra-virgin olive oil
200 grams water


I usually mix this for 5-10 minutes with a dough hook.  I then proof for no less than 3 hours at room temp.  After the first proof I divide and shape into balls and proof for at least another hour or 2.

At this point it's time to make the pizza.  I make our pizzas on a smooth finish concrete slab.  In all our previous years we've always used cornmeal to keep things from sticking, this time I used flour to much better success.  I also bought a perforated peel.....that thing is like magic.  Wish I had done that a long time ago.  I pull a dough ball off the pan and shape it on the slab (I'm not a throw it in the air kind of person, would that I could).  It shapes fairly well but again, wants to shrink back which means I'm overworking it to get it big and thin enough.

Oven temp is around 650 on the deck and 800-900 at the dome. 

Again, pizza came out pretty great but I think it could use a bit more chew and just a shade of crispiness.

Offline Abouna

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Re: Dough help, still not quite right
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2019, 10:14:45 AM »
OK, so I've just made a new batch of dough and will bake it later today.  Not sure if this is going to get me anything better, seems kind of high hydration but then I know almost nothing:

Grams              Ingredient             
     
340 grams        Water                                71%
6 grams           Instant Yeast                      1.5%
28 grams         Extra Virgin Olive Oil            6%
480 grams         All Purpose Flour             100%
12 grams         Sea Salt (fine)                   2.5%

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Dough help, still not quite right
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2019, 10:42:41 AM »
Your dough fermentation time seems rather short to me (lack of sufficient fermentation time is a major contributor to excessive elasticity in the dough). My suggestion is to mix, scale, ball, and cold ferment the dough balls for 24 to 48-hours before opening them into skins and dressing for baking. If you don't want to go that route I'd suggest increasing the finished dough temperature to increase the fermentation rate. I see in your last post that you are up to 1.5% IDY which is a very high yeast level for a pizza dough, so if this doesn't improve the handling properties of the dough concentrate your efforts on either temperature or changing over to a cold fermentation process. As a last resort you might need to change your flour or flour blend to something a little weaker and better suited to your short fermentation process.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Abouna

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Re: Dough help, still not quite right
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2019, 01:01:31 PM »
Your dough fermentation time seems rather short to me (lack of sufficient fermentation time is a major contributor to excessive elasticity in the dough). My suggestion is to mix, scale, ball, and cold ferment the dough balls for 24 to 48-hours before opening them into skins and dressing for baking. If you don't want to go that route I'd suggest increasing the finished dough temperature to increase the fermentation rate. I see in your last post that you are up to 1.5% IDY which is a very high yeast level for a pizza dough, so if this doesn't improve the handling properties of the dough concentrate your efforts on either temperature or changing over to a cold fermentation process. As a last resort you might need to change your flour or flour blend to something a little weaker and better suited to your short fermentation process.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Tom, I'm all for more time and cold fermenting.  I'm after a easy to make and easy to use dough here that has good flavor and some chew.  Can you suggest both a good starting point and a decent flour?  Right now I'm using KA AP most the time because I already have it in 50 lb bags where I buy it for cheap but I'm willing source something else.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Dough help, still not quite right
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2019, 02:17:21 PM »
You might start with this:
Flour: 100% (KABF)
Salt: 2%
Sugar: 2% (optional)
Olive oil: 2%
IDY: 0.4%
Water: 65% (70F)

Procedure:
Put water in mixing bowl first, then add the salt and flour, add the IDY on top of the flour, mix just until you don't see any dry flour in the bowl, then add the oil and mix just until the dough takes on a smooth consistency. Targeted finished dough temperature: 80F.
Immediately scale and ball, lightly oil the dough balls and place into individual plastic bread bags, twist the open end into a pony tail and tuck under the dough ball as you place it into the fridge to cold ferment for 24-hours. Remove from fridge, allow to warm AT room temperature for 1-hour, open into a skin, dress and bake. The dough, when made in this manner should be able to be used as soon as 24-hours to a far out as 48-hours, maybe a little more. This process allows you to make the dough at a time when it's convenient for you and use it anytime within the next 2-days or so.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 09:52:57 AM by Pete-zza »

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Offline Abouna

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Re: Dough help, still not quite right
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2019, 02:32:24 PM »
Great, thanks MUCH.  Will give it a try and see how I do.

Offline Abouna

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Re: Dough help, still not quite right
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2019, 07:56:13 PM »
OK I did a 2400 gram flour batch of dough this morning in anticipation of tomorrow night (if it ever stops raining).

One question; I ended up with 10 dough balls, bagged and ready.  How do I practically use them?  I'll take them out an hour beforehand but obviously I'm not going to skin them all at once, dress and bake.  Should I just leave them in bags and only open them as I need them?..........pretty sure I just answered my own question but I'm asking because we typically have all the dough on a sheet pan, lidded, and just grab one as we make each pizza.  I've never done the bag thing.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Dough help, still not quite right
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2019, 08:42:39 PM »
Yep, just make sure you oil the dough balls lightly prior to placing in the bags, then just grab a bag as you need it just as you do when using dough boxes. From the time you open the first dough ball the rest will remain good to use for for 2 to 2.5-hours on average.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Abouna

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Re: Dough help, still not quite right
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2019, 09:47:18 PM »
Thanks Tom.

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