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Author Topic: Dough Ball Percentage Rise  (Read 490 times)

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Offline albacore

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Dough Ball Percentage Rise
« on: May 21, 2019, 04:44:35 PM »
I am trying to perfect my Neapolitan dough and I have a question about the size increase of the dough balls during fermentation.

I am using Caputo blue and IDY at 62.5% hydration in a 24 hour straight dough for use in the WFO. I am making the dough about 5pm, bulk fermenting overnight and balling up in  the morning.

My understanding is that I should aim for around 80% size increase in the dough balls - is this right, and does the 80% figure include any size increase in the dough that will have occurred during the bulk fermentation, or is it purely the increase during the ball fermentation stage?

Thanks,
Lance

Offline Irishboy

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Re: Dough Ball Percentage Rise
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2019, 05:22:29 PM »
I do about 180% or about ot 0.75-2x its size  including both stages as a total it seems to work out pretty good.  I never remove the little dough ball in the beaker from start to finish I actually save it and add it back to the next batch as old dough
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 05:24:22 PM by Irishboy »
Josh

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Dough Ball Percentage Rise
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2019, 09:36:40 PM »
I am trying to perfect my Neapolitan dough and I have a question about the size increase of the dough balls during fermentation.

I am using Caputo blue and IDY at 62.5% hydration in a 24 hour straight dough for use in the WFO. I am making the dough about 5pm, bulk fermenting overnight and balling up in  the morning.

My understanding is that I should aim for around 80% size increase in the dough balls - is this right, and does the 80% figure include any size increase in the dough that will have occurred during the bulk fermentation, or is it purely the increase during the ball fermentation stage?

Thanks,
Lance

That's probably as good a starting point as any. As a general rule, and AOTBE, a bit over fermented is better than a bit under.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Irishboy

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Re: Dough Ball Percentage Rise
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2019, 01:14:21 AM »
That's probably as good a starting point as any. As a general rule, and AOTBE, a bit over fermented is better than a bit under.


That's about as true as it can get. took me some trial-and-error to figure that out
Josh

Offline albacore

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Re: Dough Ball Percentage Rise
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2019, 03:45:36 AM »
Many thanks for your replies - it's good to know that I'm on the right track.

One thing I don't quite understand is that I seem to be needing quite a bit more IDY than is generally specified to get the 80% rise.
I'm fermenting right through at 20C/68F and I started with 0.035% IDY, but didn't get enough rise. I'm now up to 0.065%, after trialing 0.05% (still not enough) and I hope this will be about right (trial in progress).

The IDY is BB 07/2020 in sealed 7g packets, Allinson (UK) brand.

Lance

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Online HansB

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Re: Dough Ball Percentage Rise
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2019, 08:51:17 AM »

One thing I don't quite understand is that I seem to be needing quite a bit more IDY than is generally specified to get the 80% rise.
I'm fermenting right through at 20C/68F and I started with 0.035% IDY, but didn't get enough rise. I'm now up to 0.065%, after trialing 0.05% (still not enough) and I hope this will be about right (trial in progress).

Lance

You have to do what works for you, I believe that Craig has stated many times that the chart is a great starting point.
Hans

Offline Irishboy

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Re: Dough Ball Percentage Rise
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2019, 09:22:33 AM »
Many thanks for your replies - it's good to know that I'm on the right track.

One thing I don't quite understand is that I seem to be needing quite a bit more IDY than is generally specified to get the 80% rise.
I'm fermenting right through at 20C/68F and I started with 0.035% IDY, but didn't get enough rise. I'm now up to 0.065%, after trialing 0.05% (still not enough) and I hope this will be about right (trial in progress).

The IDY is BB 07/2020 in sealed 7g packets, Allinson (UK) brand.

Lance


I am at about. .06% at 67f for 20hrs.
Finish mixed dough temperature makes a big difference on things and fermentation rates.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 11:47:28 PM by Irishboy »
Josh

Offline Whisky

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Re: Dough Ball Percentage Rise
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2019, 01:01:58 PM »
Many thanks for your replies - it's good to know that I'm on the right track.

One thing I don't quite understand is that I seem to be needing quite a bit more IDY than is generally specified to get the 80% rise.
I'm fermenting right through at 20C/68F and I started with 0.035% IDY, but didn't get enough rise. I'm now up to 0.065%, after trialing 0.05% (still not enough) and I hope this will be about right (trial in progress).

The IDY is BB 07/2020 in sealed 7g packets, Allinson (UK) brand.

Lance

I learned the hard way to better pay attention to the dates on the packs of yeast. Also I feel over time in the fridge they go bad I think. Might be worth checking out if you feel your yeast is sluggish. 

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Dough Ball Percentage Rise
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2019, 03:56:54 PM »
.06%, right Josh?

Offline albacore

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Re: Dough Ball Percentage Rise
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2019, 06:07:08 PM »
Thanks all, it looks like 0.06% or possibly 0.065% will do the trick for me, giving an 80% or slightly more size increase.

One interesting thing I found is that I tried hydrating the IDY in warm water at 40C for 5 mins before use - not strictly necessary, I know, but I thought it was good practise, especially if your mixing water is very cold for a cold fermentation. What I actually found was that the rise was worse using this method than just adding the IDY to the flour!

BTW I have been measuring dough ball volume by the water displacement method and I came up with an unfermented dough density of 1.26g/ml, ie a 205g ball which I use would occupy 163ml or a 250g ball would be 199ml.

Lance

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Offline Irishboy

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Re: Dough Ball Percentage Rise
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2019, 11:46:49 PM »
.06%, right Josh?


Sorry, yes. 06% is correct
Josh

Offline sk

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Re: Dough Ball Percentage Rise
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2019, 11:25:52 AM »

I am at about. .06% at 67f for 20hrs.
Finish mixed dough temperature makes a big difference on things and fermentation rates.

Irishboy, would you mind expanding the explanation on that statement?   Do you have any info to share such as -  65degrees  finished dough temp resulted in little fermentation, 78 degrees really worked well, 85 degrees resulted in overfermentation and the dough was to extensible.  That sort of thing?

Offline Irishboy

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Re: Dough Ball Percentage Rise
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2019, 08:48:33 PM »
Irishboy, would you mind expanding the explanation on that statement?   Do you have any info to share such as -  65degrees  finished dough temp resulted in little fermentation, 78 degrees really worked well, 85 degrees resulted in overfermentation and the dough was to extensible.  That sort of thing?


Finished dough temperature effects amount of yeast and fermentation speed, the hotter the Finish dough temperature the faster the fermentation because it takes time for the core of the dough to cool down to the surrounding temperature therefore fermentation is faster, Stow Mass size also affects this the bigger the mass the longer to cool. So yeast amounts can be affected with different temperatures once you find a temperature that works for you you will get a more consistent fermentation.


You were actually pretty accurate on your statement I try to stick around 70 through because i am using a fermentation chamber of around mid 60s


The dough doctor talks alot about this
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 08:50:08 PM by Irishboy »
Josh

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