Author Topic: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One  (Read 368335 times)

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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #675 on: April 30, 2014, 05:38:00 PM »
Is the Pizza King you're trying to make anything like Cassano's?
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #676 on: May 02, 2014, 11:14:06 AM »
Oven spring is similar, it just seemed like the conveyor gave more uniform results with a wider range of dough formulations. On the deck it's been hit or miss. 

I suspect that is one big reason pizza companies have gone to using conveyor ovens: consistency in results.  It is the mantra of fast-food franchises to be consistent, each and every time and from each and every location, so the customer knows what to expect and get.

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Shaklee3

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #677 on: May 05, 2014, 12:22:42 AM »
Wow! I was really surprised to see this thread after so many years of looking at it on and off. The last time I tried some recipes was I think Lydia's Masa flour twist on it in 2011. I just got caught up on the last couple of pages, and let me throw in the opinion that the RT picture with the anchovies is definitely not representative of their pizza. In fact, I would say that a true round table pizza absolutely needs to be ordered with a "pan" style crust. It is the thickest crust and is a night and day difference with their regular crust. I think it's also somewhat harder for the cooks to get right since we've had many bad pizzas there, but when you have a good one, there is no other chain that can beat it (IMO). I'm not completely convinced the trans-fat is the cause of the problem; I tend to think it's the people cooking it not knowing what they're doing. I had a pizza a couple of weeks ago at the Oceanside location, and it was how I remember it from the early 90s. I would say they definitely miss more than hit nowadays, but don't give up on it until you've tried a good one. I've attached a picture of their pan crust I had that would make anyone want to spend countless hours trying to clone it.

However, I still have not found anything close to tasting like their pan crust, nor have I found a sauce recipe that has the spiciness or tang theirs does. I wish you guys the best of luck on this, and hopefully you make some good progress. I'll try to jump in and experiment once in a while, but I spent a lot of time on it in the past with very little progress.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #678 on: May 05, 2014, 07:55:10 AM »
Shaklee


That pic has got to be one of the best examples of an RT pan/thick crust pizza I've seen.  :drool:


Thanks for posting.


I'm trying to see the side view of the puffed edge and it does appear to be the "new transfat free formula" but somehow it looks perfect 80's vintage.  ???


For the Pan Crust, I did work out some bake times with dough/cheese weights, using the cheater dough. I haven't posted them. But if you'd like them, I will.




I haven't gotten results like you pic, but it does turn out like "typical" RT pan pizza.



The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline tulipsar3better

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #679 on: August 14, 2014, 09:14:05 AM »
I live in California and can get Round Table all the time but don't because the consistency sucks. You had a pretty bad example but I would say I get one like that one in five times when I go. This forum is great though and you already make some of the best looking pizzas in that style so I would be proud.

Try the round table in Orange CA. To die for. Always consistent. Always AMAZING! The only downside is the price. For my Xmas gift I had my husband get us 3 XL "supreme" pizzas. It was $115 before the coupon! Thank god we had 50% off coupon. Jeez!

Offline FoodieZ

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #680 on: December 18, 2014, 09:15:01 PM »
I still have not found anything close to tasting like their pan crust, nor have I found a sauce recipe that has the spiciness or tang theirs does.

I'm just a humble, long time fan of the pizza, especially the sauce, and have been attempting to re-create it for... let's just say a long time. I used Lydia's recipe for a while, played around with Penzey's pizza spice, which seems to me to come somewhat close, then started changing my recipe around to compare to the little "sides" of red sauce that I was able to coax out of my local Round Table. I know they use a prepared sauce mix, but somehow it just seems that the flavor has varied by location, and perhaps over time as well. But for the here and now, here's my current go-to...

4 teaspoons ground coriander (gives it that distinct "orange-y" flavor)
2 teaspoons ground fennel
2 teaspoons dried mexican oregano
2 teaspoons dried basil
2 teaspoons granulated garlic
2 teaspoons sugar
1 teaspoons granulated onion
1 1/4 teaspoons salt
3/4 teaspoon ground black pepper
1/2 teaspoon dried sage
1/2 teaspoon turmeric (gives it that distinct "orange-y" color)
1/2 teaspoon Fruit Fresh (for the Ascorbic Acid and Citric Acid, tried other acidic ingredients, this seemed to work best for the "tangy")
1/4 teaspoon ground cayenne (the "bite", along with the black pepper)

Add approximately 3 teaspoons of this spice mixture to 3 ounces of tomato paste (I use Hunt's), then add about 1 1/2 to 2 ounces of water (again, my Round Table is inconsistent/thicker/thinner.


Shortcut to the above:

3 teaspoons Penzey’s Pizza Seasoning + 1 teaspoon coriander + 1/4 teaspoon Fruit Fresh + 1/4 teaspoon turmeric


YMMV...
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 11:31:15 PM by FoodieZ »


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #681 on: December 18, 2014, 09:24:11 PM »
I'm just a humble, long time fan of the pizza, especially the sauce, and have been attempting to re-create it for... let's just say a long time. I used Lydia's recipe for a while, played around with Penzey's pizza spice, which seems to me to come somewhat close, then started changing my recipe around to compare to the little "sides" of red sauce that I was able to coax out of my local Round Table. I know they use a prepared sauce mix, but somehow it just seems that the flavor has varied by location, and perhaps over time as well. But for the here and now, here's my current go-to...

4 teaspoons ground coriander (gives it that distinct "orange-y" flavor)
2 teaspoons ground fennel
2 teaspoons dried oregano
2 teaspoons dried basil
2 teaspoons granulated garlic
2 teaspoons sugar
1 teaspoons granulated onion
1 1/4 teaspoons salt
3/4 teaspoon ground black pepper
1/2 teaspoon dried sage
1/2 teaspoon turmeric (gives it that distinct "orange-y" color)
1/2 teaspoon fruit fresh (tried other acidic ingredients, this worked best for the "tangy")
1/4 teaspoon ground cayenne (the "bite", along with the black pepper)

Add approximately 3 teaspoons of this spice mixture to 3 ounces of tomato paste (I use Hunt's), then add about 1 1/2 to 2 ounces of water (again, my Round Table is inconsistent/thicker/thinner.


Shortcut to the above:

3 teaspoons Penzey’s Pizza Seasoning + 1 teaspoon coriander + 1/4 teaspoon fruit fresh + 1/4 teaspoon turmeric


YMMV...
Thank you for your detailed post Z and welcome to the forum.   8)

We don't get many folks talking about sauce....I hope you stick around.   :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline wsonner

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #682 on: December 18, 2014, 09:52:13 PM »
I'm just a humble, long time fan of the pizza, especially the sauce, and have been attempting to re-create it for... let's just say a long time. I used Lydia's recipe for a while, played around with Penzey's pizza spice, which seems to me to come somewhat close, then started changing my recipe around to compare to the little "sides" of red sauce that I was able to coax out of my local Round Table. I know they use a prepared sauce mix, but somehow it just seems that the flavor has varied by location, and perhaps over time as well. But for the here and now, here's my current go-to...

4 teaspoons ground coriander (gives it that distinct "orange-y" flavor)
2 teaspoons ground fennel
2 teaspoons dried oregano
2 teaspoons dried basil
2 teaspoons granulated garlic
2 teaspoons sugar
1 teaspoons granulated onion
1 1/4 teaspoons salt
3/4 teaspoon ground black pepper
1/2 teaspoon dried sage
1/2 teaspoon turmeric (gives it that distinct "orange-y" color)
1/2 teaspoon Fruit Fresh (for the Ascorbic Acid and Citric Acid, tried other acidic ingredients, this seemed to work best for the "tangy")
1/4 teaspoon ground cayenne (the "bite", along with the black pepper)

Add approximately 3 teaspoons of this spice mixture to 3 ounces of tomato paste (I use Hunt's), then add about 1 1/2 to 2 ounces of water (again, my Round Table is inconsistent/thicker/thinner.


Shortcut to the above:

3 teaspoons Penzey’s Pizza Seasoning + 1 teaspoon coriander + 1/4 teaspoon Fruit Fresh + 1/4 teaspoon turmeric


YMMV...

I like this. A couple comments. I personally think the key ingredient to RT sauce is Hungarian paprika.  But that might just be my own taste. The fruit fresh is interesting and consistent with something I tried which was pineapple juice powder.  Unfortunately the only place I have found it was King Arthur's in VT and they stopped selling it. Maybe I'll look up Fruit Fresh.

Wes

Offline FoodieZ

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #683 on: December 18, 2014, 10:06:18 PM »
I like this. A couple comments. I personally think the key ingredient to RT sauce is Hungarian paprika.  But that might just be my own taste. The fruit fresh is interesting and consistent with something I tried which was pineapple juice powder.  Unfortunately the only place I have found it was King Arthur's in VT and they stopped selling it. Maybe I'll look up Fruit Fresh.

Wes

Yes, wsonner, I had seen the mention of Hungarian Paprika on the forum, which is always in my spice cabinet, and I tried it. For whatever reason, from my RT, that day, I was having trouble detecting that paprika flavor from the sauce sample at hand.

For the pineapple juice powder, have you tried Great American Spice Co.?:

http://www.americanspice.com/search.php?q=pineapple+powder



« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 11:28:04 PM by FoodieZ »

Offline pacificx5

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #684 on: November 09, 2016, 06:22:31 AM »
Wow! I was really surprised to see this thread after so many years of looking at it on and off. The last time I tried some recipes was I think Lydia's Masa flour twist on it in 2011. I just got caught up on the last couple of pages, and let me throw in the opinion that the RT picture with the anchovies is definitely not representative of their pizza. In fact, I would say that a true round table pizza absolutely needs to be ordered with a "pan" style crust. It is the thickest crust and is a night and day difference with their regular crust. I think it's also somewhat harder for the cooks to get right since we've had many bad pizzas there, but when you have a good one, there is no other chain that can beat it (IMO). I'm not completely convinced the trans-fat is the cause of the problem; I tend to think it's the people cooking it not knowing what they're doing. I had a pizza a couple of weeks ago at the Oceanside location, and it was how I remember it from the early 90s. I would say they definitely miss more than hit nowadays, but don't give up on it until you've tried a good one. I've attached a picture of their pan crust I had that would make anyone want to spend countless hours trying to clone it.

However, I still have not found anything close to tasting like their pan crust, nor have I found a sauce recipe that has the spiciness or tang theirs does. I wish you guys the best of luck on this, and hopefully you make some good progress. I'll try to jump in and experiment once in a while, but I spent a lot of time on it in the past with very little progress.
Hello!
What is this pizza?
It looks damn good!

Offline Lydia

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #685 on: November 09, 2016, 12:45:15 PM »
I'm just a humble, long time fan of the pizza, especially the sauce, and have been attempting to re-create it for... let's just say a long time. I used Lydia's recipe for a while, played around with Penzey's pizza spice, which seems to me to come somewhat close, then started changing my recipe around to compare to the little "sides" of red sauce that I was able to coax out of my local Round Table. I know they use a prepared sauce mix, but somehow it just seems that the flavor has varied by location, and perhaps over time as well. But for the here and now, here's my current go-to...

4 teaspoons ground coriander (gives it that distinct "orange-y" flavor)
2 teaspoons ground fennel
2 teaspoons dried mexican oregano
2 teaspoons dried basil
2 teaspoons granulated garlic
2 teaspoons sugar
1 teaspoons granulated onion
1 1/4 teaspoons salt
3/4 teaspoon ground black pepper
1/2 teaspoon dried sage
1/2 teaspoon turmeric (gives it that distinct "orange-y" color)
1/2 teaspoon Fruit Fresh (for the Ascorbic Acid and Citric Acid, tried other acidic ingredients, this seemed to work best for the "tangy")
1/4 teaspoon ground cayenne (the "bite", along with the black pepper)

Add approximately 3 teaspoons of this spice mixture to 3 ounces of tomato paste (I use Hunt's), then add about 1 1/2 to 2 ounces of water (again, my Round Table is inconsistent/thicker/thinner.


Shortcut to the above:

3 teaspoons Penzey’s Pizza Seasoning + 1 teaspoon coriander + 1/4 teaspoon Fruit Fresh + 1/4 teaspoon turmeric


YMMV...


Try swapping the tumeric for mustard powder. Note that different brands will have different amouts of zing. I typically start with Coleman's which is a good balance blend of brown and yellow with lots of zing. Also consider using a 3:1 ratio of Colemans to tumeric, especially if your not getting a color match.

Its been on my list to try, but after being transplanted in Alabama, far FAR away from any Round Table, I feel that I might not be able to Clone it. At best I would only be able to give my best balanced version from memory.

For Paprika, I have been using McCormick "gourmet" paprika. It's doesn't have the bitter edge that nearly all other have. It's getting a bit harder to find.

I still haven't tried the Penzy's pizza seasoning yet, but it sounds like I really should.
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #686 on: December 21, 2016, 02:23:16 PM »



 
Updates:
I have a new home for the video on my previous RT dough layering process available here at this link.


RT thick crust spreadsheet
Also, I had lost several files when my computer crashed just before our move. But I came across a copy on an old thumb drive. I cannot guarantee that it’s completely correct as I don’t know whether or not this is a copy of my final version.

Here is the replacement link for the "training by the slice" 80's RT vid.


I haven't done any work on the RT sauce since discovering that Mustard powder needs to be included. Here in the South I have Marco's pizza frequently and their sauce is very very similar except it has paprika instead of chili powder and has both basil and oregano. So what this means is that my "taste memory" for RT is now muddled. At best I could work with my last recipe to incorporate the mustard, ultimately recreating a recipe that taste "California" to me but I don't think it could be called a "clone".

Using google docs is new to me, so please let me know if there are any issues with the links and I'll try to get it figured out.

Thanks
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.


Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #687 on: December 27, 2016, 10:39:34 PM »
Thanks Lydia.  I always appreciate your input and experience on the RT pizza clone.

I know about Marco's.  They have been in our area for about 5-6 years now.  They are okay for a quick fix, but as for the sauce being close to RT's, I am not so sure.  Marco's seems more of a sweeter sauce, and not as much tang as RT's.  It's been a while since I have experience a true RT pizza, as well (2 years?).  We are headed to California in March.  Hopefully after that I can add some more insight into the sauce discussion.

Take care and keep on posting!  8)

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #688 on: December 28, 2016, 12:05:13 PM »

Ernie


Thanks for the kind words and encouragement.  :)


I completely agree with what your saying about Marco's sauce. I actually should have worded it differently than I did. I should have said that the "spice profile" is nearly the same, pecking order and ratios are not, with Marcos sugar ratio being higher. So no, they don't taste the same, but to me and my sensitive taste buds, I feel its close enough to create potential cloning issues without RT samples. but who knows, I could be underestimating my years of consuming RT.




Well, On a side note:


This weekend I went to get some more Quaker Harina mix and my heart sunk when I saw the dreaded "new label". Ugg!  :o


there is a formula change and it couldn't have come at a more inconvenient time. So I bought the last "old label" bag, went home, unloaded my groceries then headed back out to find more "old label" to hold me over long enough to find out if/how detrimental the changes are.



Old Label Ingredients: expire APR 2017
Ingredients: Enriched Bleached Flour (Bleached Wheat Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin, Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Palm Oil, Salt, Leavening (Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Sodium Bicarbonate, Monocalcium Phosphate), Corn Syrup Solids, Dough Conditioner Product (Whey, L-Cystine Monohydrochloride), Dextrose, Calcium Carbonate




New bags on shelves December 2016 expire JUL 2017


Ingredients: Enriched Bleached Flour (Bleached Wheat Flour, Niacin*, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate*, Riboflavin*, Folic Acid*), Palm Oil, Salt, Corn Syrup Solids, Whey, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Dextrose, Sodium Bicarbonate, Calcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Mono and Diglycerides, L-Cysteine.*One of the B Vitamins.


I knew it was bound to happen sooner or later, but why NOW just after I got the fermentation all nailed down?  ???



















The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #689 on: December 29, 2016, 04:22:41 PM »
Ernie


Thanks for the kind words and encouragement.  :)


I completely agree with what your saying about Marco's sauce. I actually should have worded it differently than I did. I should have said that the "spice profile" is nearly the same, pecking order and ratios are not, with Marcos sugar ratio being higher. So no, they don't taste the same, but to me and my sensitive taste buds, I feel its close enough to create potential cloning issues without RT samples. but who knows, I could be underestimating my years of consuming RT.




Well, On a side note:


This weekend I went to get some more Quaker Harina mix and my heart sunk when I saw the dreaded "new label". Ugg!  :o


there is a formula change and it couldn't have come at a more inconvenient time. So I bought the last "old label" bag, went home, unloaded my groceries then headed back out to find more "old label" to hold me over long enough to find out if/how detrimental the changes are.



Old Label Ingredients: expire APR 2017
Ingredients: Enriched Bleached Flour (Bleached Wheat Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin, Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Palm Oil, Salt, Leavening (Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Sodium Bicarbonate, Monocalcium Phosphate), Corn Syrup Solids, Dough Conditioner Product (Whey, L-Cystine Monohydrochloride), Dextrose, Calcium Carbonate




New bags on shelves December 2016 expire JUL 2017


Ingredients: Enriched Bleached Flour (Bleached Wheat Flour, Niacin*, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate*, Riboflavin*, Folic Acid*), Palm Oil, Salt, Corn Syrup Solids, Whey, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Dextrose, Sodium Bicarbonate, Calcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Mono and Diglycerides, L-Cysteine.*One of the B Vitamins.


I knew it was bound to happen sooner or later, but why NOW just after I got the fermentation all nailed down?  ???

You are most welcome on the encouragement.  It is truly deserved.

Thanks for the clarification.  Next time we get a Marco's pizza, I will have to try to pay more attention to the flavor profile, although I am betting your taste buds are more sensitive and accurate than mine.

Well, too bad about the Quaker Harina Preparada.  But honestly, I have found the Wal-Mart equivalent works just as well (at least for me), and its ingredient blend is not exactly the same as Quaker's, so it may not be a total loss.  Perhaps you might notice a difference in terms of the flavor, but I think the texture of the crust has been pretty spot on with my use of the Wal-Mart product. Bummed that Quaker decided to throw in corn syrup solids, though.  I think there is a conspiracy in Iowa to get corn products into everything we use.  :-D

Happy New Year!  :)

-ME

Let them eat pizza.