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Author Topic: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe  (Read 35039 times)

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Offline ikaruga102

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #80 on: August 27, 2016, 02:57:29 AM »
Interesting results from a 48 hr ferment
I reballed for an hour before the bake. Crazy oven spring but collapsed crumb.
Any thoughts?

I'm using ADY. Maybe use less?

Offline ikaruga102

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #81 on: August 27, 2016, 03:13:37 AM »
I think that one thing that could have happened was rehydrating the ady before the autolyse period could have caused too much initial rise. I'm going to try adding it post autolyse w/ the same amount of yeast.

HarryHaller73

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #82 on: August 27, 2016, 11:15:14 PM »
contrary to what many people here think or believe, authentic ny pizza has no large dough spring.  no big crumb, none of that. 

anything having any semblance to that is a product of the past 15 years of pizza dilution and IGNORANCE + a bit of media fueled creative destruction.  no, making a round pie at 16-18" does not justify a ny pie.  no, a pie with just some canned tomatoes and some salt and oregano is not a ny pie.  no.  sorry. 

if ur pies don't look like this, then work harder.


Offline HansB

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #83 on: August 28, 2016, 01:42:50 PM »
contrary to what many people here think or believe, authentic ny pizza has no large dough spring.  no big crumb, none of that. 

anything having any semblance to that is a product of the past 15 years of pizza dilution and IGNORANCE + a bit of media fueled creative destruction.  no, making a round pie at 16-18" does not justify a ny pie.  no, a pie with just some canned tomatoes and some salt and oregano is not a ny pie.  no.  sorry. 

if ur pies don't look like this, then work harder.

https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/2370171-how-to-win-friends-and-influence-people
Hans

Offline jvp123

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #84 on: August 28, 2016, 02:49:18 PM »
contrary to what many people here think or believe, authentic ny pizza has no large dough spring.  no big crumb, none of that. 

anything having any semblance to that is a product of the past 15 years of pizza dilution and IGNORANCE + a bit of media fueled creative destruction.  no, making a round pie at 16-18" does not justify a ny pie.  no, a pie with just some canned tomatoes and some salt and oregano is not a ny pie.  no.  sorry. 

if ur pies don't look like this, then work harder.

Are these your pies Harry?  If so, you're very good at pizza making. They look great. Would love to see some of your other pies as well if you could direct me to some pics and maybe provide some of the basics to your process i.e. type of flour, RT or CF, oven temp/surface, etc. thanks!
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 03:03:04 PM by jvp123 »
Jeff

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Offline invertedisdead

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #85 on: August 28, 2016, 02:56:42 PM »
contrary to what many people here think or believe, authentic ny pizza has no large dough spring.  no big crumb, none of that. 

anything having any semblance to that is a product of the past 15 years of pizza dilution and IGNORANCE + a bit of media fueled creative destruction.  no, making a round pie at 16-18" does not justify a ny pie.  no, a pie with just some canned tomatoes and some salt and oregano is not a ny pie.  no.  sorry. 

if ur pies don't look like this, then work harder.

But those two slices look completely different from each other, I'm curious which one is proper NY to you? The top pie has a more lazily stretched crust compared to the pie beneath, but the cheese melt and crust coloration is completely different, and the top pie leaves a cheese border, while the bottom cheeses to the rim.
the proof is in the pizza

HarryHaller73

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #86 on: August 28, 2016, 03:11:32 PM »
But those two slices look completely different from each other, I'm curious which one is proper NY to you? The top pie has a more lazily stretched crust compared to the pie beneath, but the cheese melt and crust coloration is completely different, and the top pie leaves a cheese border, while the bottom cheeses to the rim.

it's simple.  just follow this rule of thumb.  when a self proclaimed ny slice begins to reminisce of bread, that slice's game ends as far as ny slices go.   

those 2 pics are from lucia and amore pizza in nyc.  one looks exaggerated because it's shot on an extremely wide angle lens.  here's another pic below.   they taste VERY similar to each other within the spirit of NY pizza... and once you try an authentic NY slice, you'd know.   they are extremely thin, have a much more complex ny sauce, and produce an orange sheen from the browned mozzarella and it's milkfat with the right consistency and amount of sauce.  and i repeat, there is absolutely no large crumb holes, no breadiness in authentic nyc style pizza.  there is no big dough spring in authentic nyc pizza.  that sort of thing is found in american style pizza, like chain pizza.

rim crusts may vary in ny pizza, some like it thinner than others, but the most important is the way it's made.  traditional NY crusts are WAY simpler concept, they DON'T do these 72 hour multi day cold ferments, they use same day dough and dump in yesterday's leftover dough for flavor or a starter..  and rather stress the way it's mixed, the way the dough is opened, beat up and stretched ultra thin (SKILL).  Also of importance is the NY sauce.  No, simple canned crushed tomatoes or san marzano's that people put on neapolitan or margherita pies is NOT what you find in authentic NY pizza.  ny slices are more influenced by strong sicilian-italian flavors.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 07:16:33 PM by HarryHaller73 »

HarryHaller73

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #87 on: August 28, 2016, 03:43:10 PM »
YES.  YES.  YES. 
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 03:49:07 PM by HarryHaller73 »

Offline jvp123

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #88 on: August 28, 2016, 04:12:44 PM »
Do you think these are mostly high gluten flour lower hydration doughs?  Like around 60% water? 

I tend to have to work a little during my stretching to make sure I don't get edge blow ups (which I don't prefer).  I like small rims too.
My hydration is mid 60s with 1% oil as well.
Jeff

Offline sfnatoli

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #89 on: August 28, 2016, 04:16:37 PM »
Now THAT'S the NY style that I remember from my younger days.  I've been living in NC for 20 years and that pie is exactly what brought me to PizzaMaking.com.  Man I wish I could replicate that.  I'm getting better, but not there yet.

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Offline invertedisdead

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #90 on: August 28, 2016, 05:10:58 PM »
Do you think these are mostly high gluten flour lower hydration doughs?  Like around 60% water? 

I tend to have to work a little during my stretching to make sure I don't get edge blow ups (which I don't prefer).  I like small rims too.
My hydration is mid 60s with 1% oil as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was even less water like high 50's. I find if I pay almost any attention at all to maintaining a rim while stretching it will be too big if I want it super small and tight like that.
the proof is in the pizza

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #91 on: August 28, 2016, 05:17:01 PM »
The slices Harry Haller posts all seem to have more cheese than the NY purists on here used to preach instead of the webbing of cheese and sauce intermingling some members used to post about in detail. I think Scott123 would say the cheese is cooked too far on some of those. They look like some pretty solid slices though. Now I'm in the mood to make some pies. Harry what is your idea of a NY fermentation schedule? Short room temp rise? Mix and direct to ball overnight in the fridge?
the proof is in the pizza

HarryHaller73

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #92 on: August 28, 2016, 06:15:06 PM »
The slices Harry Haller posts all seem to have more cheese than the NY purists on here used to preach instead of the webbing of cheese and sauce intermingling some members used to post about in detail. I think Scott123 would say the cheese is cooked too far on some of those. They look like some pretty solid slices though. Now I'm in the mood to make some pies. Harry what is your idea of a NY fermentation schedule? Short room temp rise? Mix and direct to ball overnight in the fridge?

i am certainly not a pizza making pro, and i post here primarily as an eater of ny pies.  i do bake pies so this is based on my own observations on hydration.  first, the oven you use matters.  a deck oven has low clearance and consistent wet heat via natural gas.  home ovens are much more variable, and often differ from one another.   some are nat gas, some are electric, some convected heat, some use stones, some use screens.  imo, hydration is dependent on alot of factors.   i've taken a 58% hydration dough to a deck oven and the crust got way too dry.  and then different flours have different absorption rates.  so many factors.  generally, i use a high gluten lower hydration dough for home ovens to compensate at 58%.  if i was baking in a hotter deck oven, maybe i'd go 61-63%

the classic authentic slice of my youth was nutty gooey cheese, but not excessive.  they are nicely browned with the proper ratio and consistency of sauce underneath.  if baked correctly, the cheese should melt evenly, and then goes into browning.   the spotty webbing of cheese is a recent thing this past 10-15 years and you'll find that at dollar joints.  this is a function of cutting costs and not effectively getting the sauce/cheese ratio right, and often the cheese and sauce on the pies aren't baked well, the mozzarella hasn't browned and comes out a pale white stringy mess.  this also has to do with shops shifting to part skim mozzarellas cos that's what the weaklings who despise grease want these days.  the pictures i posted are from lucia, joe's and amore.  these pies have not changed in 30+ years.  the older generation tell me it's the same since the 60's.

i am working on a research project on pizza temporarily called "the death of the ny slice" from a purely historical perspective and not as an entrepreneur and most places i've encountered use a same day rise with some of yesterday's dough dumped in at room temp balled in dough trays.  these last throughout the day.  the doughs later in the day need more work, more slapping around, more beating on the bench.  a good pizzamaker works with dough in all kinds of conditions. (SKILL)   there are also seasonal factors.  slices in the colder temperature in the late fall and winter taste better than in the summer.  the worst slices tend to come at 1AM on a friday night in the muggy summer. i am not a scientist and i don't care to know why.  that's just how it is.  even joe's pizza sucks in a hot 99 degree july at 1AM and first requires a night of alcohol to get it down.

i always keep a container of used leftover dough scraps in my fridge and constantly feed it with new leftover dough and mix it up and leave it in the fridge.  it is like a mother dough.  i take some of that and dump it into the larger mass of fresh dough i'm making today for flavor and other good things it does for the new dough.  i took this idea from the various pizzerias i've watched.   

« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 07:49:08 PM by HarryHaller73 »

Offline parallei

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #93 on: August 28, 2016, 06:20:46 PM »
Are these your pies Harry?  If so, you're very good at pizza making. They look great. Would love to see some of your other pies as well if you could direct me to some pics and maybe provide some of the basics to your process i.e. type of flour, RT or CF, oven temp/surface, etc. thanks!

 :-D :-D :-D

Offline Essen1

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #94 on: August 28, 2016, 08:25:58 PM »
Best slices I ever had.

Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

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HarryHaller73

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #95 on: August 28, 2016, 08:51:15 PM »
mas ny slices por favor

« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 08:53:48 PM by HarryHaller73 »


Offline the1mu

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #97 on: August 29, 2016, 12:57:16 AM »
Best slices I ever had.

Where is this particular beauty from??

Offline Essen1

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #98 on: August 29, 2016, 01:05:13 AM »
Where is this particular beauty from??

First three from my oven and the fourth from Tony Gemignani's Slice House in North Beach/SF.
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #99 on: August 29, 2016, 04:27:12 AM »
Love those, Mike...


 

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