Author Topic: wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe  (Read 835 times)

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Offline wangji

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wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe
« on: June 05, 2016, 09:02:59 AM »
hello , everyone , i want to make a good NY style  pizza ,and i didn't  eat really NY pizza ,because i live small town in china,  i just view and learn at this forum,actually , my english is not very well ,so  sometimes readling is a liitle bit hard to me ,but that's not a problem, because i realy like make pizza,i hope you guys can help me and give me some suggestion when i post my pizza recipe , thank you so much. :)

Offline wangji

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Re: wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2016, 09:06:43 AM »
today , i maked a Tom lehmann's pizza,  i think it is not good.

Offline the1mu

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Re: wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2016, 09:07:39 AM »
Was this using the da mo fang type 55?

Offline wangji

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Re: wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2016, 09:11:13 AM »
Was this using the da mo fang type 55?
yes, T55 flour,  this is the dough ball that the ball skin is not smooth , today  i make 3 dough ball,  i let dough rest at room tempture for a while, the dough ball skin was somooth .

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2016, 10:41:05 AM »
wangji,

Aric (the1mu) can correct me if I am wrong, since he seems to know about the flour that you used, but I believe that the T55 flour is reported on a 0% or "dry basis". The "55" refers to the ash content of the flour. If that number is converted to a U.S. value, I believe it would be closer to 0.46% ash content. In the U.S., that would be more like a pastry flour. See, for example, the General Mills Golden Shield pastry flour, with a 0.47% ash value, at http://www.generalmillscf.com/services/productpdf.ashx?pid=53272000.

Also, a short term dough of only a few hours at room temperature is not likely to produce a very good crust. It is possible to convert the Lehmann NY style dough recipe to produce an "emergency" dough that can be fermented at room temperature and be capable of being used in a few hours but that recipe is intended to be for a dough that is cold fermented in a refrigerator, preferably for a couple of days or so, but also using a flour with a fair amount of protein.

Peter

Offline the1mu

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Re: wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2016, 10:53:11 AM »
Peter,

I have access to the same flour and have looked at using it before, which is why I know a little on the specs. Strangely enough, it is marketed as a bread flour albeit a bit on the low side protein wise. It is rated at 11.7% (practically AP flour) protein, .5% ash content, absorption of 59.4%, etc.

I think the biggest issue is that it was an emergency dough as you suggested and needs to be adapted appropriately.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2016, 11:10:21 AM »
Aric,

Thank you for the feedback. Since it is uncommon in the U.S. to find white flours in general with a low ash value content in the context of pizza making, I decided to look through my files to see if I could find a white flour with a decent protein content and a low ash value. I found only one example, called Big Gun, with a protein content of 11.5% and an ash content value of 0.46, but when I tried to find it at the vendor's website (Grain Craft), I could not find it. So, it may have been discontinued or else must be special ordered. No doubt there may be other low ash flours for pizza making but most millers do not give the specs for their flours so it is harder to identify potential candidates.

I'm glad the issue came up anyway. That is how I learn.

Peter

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2016, 03:06:58 PM »
Back in "the good old days" the typical ash content for most bread flours milled here in the U.S. was in the range of .45 to .48%. This was done to help produce bread with a brighter, whiter crumb color, then came the bread called "Grandma's Bread" made with an unbleached flour so now the finished crumb color was more yellow (actually creamy in color) and all was good as people liked it, so the flour millers decided to "up" the ash content to 0.5% to 0.52% as this allowed them to mill the wheat to a higher extraction rate (more pounds of finished flour from a given weight of wheat) and all remained good by consumer and baker standards as a white crumb structure was no longer the gold standard for bread, in fact the saying "the whiter the bread the sooner you're dead" came to be, and ever since then the ash content has been gradually creeping up primarily as a way for the flour miller to hold the line on cost. Now with some of the hard white wheat varieties we are seeing ash content approaching 0.6%. Ash content used to be used as a quasi measure of protein quality/quantity, this is because as the ash content increases the bran content of the flour also increases slightly, the bran has a small amount of protein attached to it that is mostly non gluten forming, this protein is measured as protein with no distinction between gluten forming and non gluten forming, so we end up with a higher protein content in the flour but all of that protein is not of the gluten forming kind so it was said that while the protein of a long extraction flour was higher it was not necessarily a higher quality protein in terms of gluten strength. You see this all the time when you look at a whole wheat flour containing all of the bran, here we typically see an increase in protein content of about 1% over the same wheat milled as a patent or straight grade flour. Soft wheat flours are still milled to a very low extraction rate to retain the whiter appearance of the flour necessary for many pastry applications, however, with that said, for a good number of years now, some pastry flours have been successfully made from hard wheat varieties, but still with low extraction rates.
In some countries (Mexico for example) it is common to mill the flour to only one extraction rate then use the standard milled flour as a bread flour and then proceed to mill the flour to a finer/smaller particle size for use as a pastry flour.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline wangji

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« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 09:08:15 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline wangji

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Re: wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2016, 01:29:00 AM »
Some more pics

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2016, 12:13:26 PM »
That's some pretty decent looking pizza! A little bit like a Domino's but with a firmer crust.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline wangji

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Re: wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2016, 10:10:00 PM »
That's some pretty decent looking pizza! A little bit like a Domino's but with a firmer crust.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
thanks Tom Lehmann, you said  a little bit like a Domino's,    but i want to make new york style pizza,   so  how can i make pizza loos like new york style pizza?


Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2016, 11:59:17 PM »
Domino's tries to emulate the New York style pizza, but if you really want to get away from the Domino's appearance you will need to use pieces of Mozzarella cheese placed on top of the pizza rather than going for complete and uniform coverage which is what you presently have.
Tom Lehmann/ The Dough Doctor

Offline Josh123

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Re: wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2016, 12:39:31 AM »
Are you saying NY pizza doesn't have complete cheese coverage? Pieces of mozzarella sounds like margherita.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: wangji's NY pizza with Tom Lehmann's NY Pizza Recipe
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2016, 01:30:06 AM »
Yes, my "dip stick" for N.Y. style has always been Patsy's (now Grimaldi's) at the Brooklyn Bridge. I'm sure you can find plenty of pizzas made using full coverage but to me Patsy's is the "one".
Tom Lehmann/the Dough Doctor