Author Topic: White Whole Wheat recipe Neo-NY style  (Read 2923 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jim baugh

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 90
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Virginia
    • Jim's Galley Blog
White Whole Wheat recipe Neo-NY style
« on: January 10, 2011, 04:40:50 PM »
Here is our Neo NY recipe from our galley blog.

We use about a third or more www in combination with high gluetone and bread flour. Makes a GREAT dough. Check it out
jimbaughoutdoors.com Check the galley blog and look for Jim's Neo NY pizza recipe.

I tried to post link here, but did not work

Jim Baugh
Jim Baugh
Jim Baugh Outdoors TV

Offline jim baugh

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 90
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Virginia
    • Jim's Galley Blog
Re: White Whole Wheat recipe Neo-NY style
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2011, 09:11:09 AM »
NOTE: Many pics and more recipes are available at jimbaughoutdoors.com galley blog. Once at galley blog page down to the 2010 recipes and look in oct. There you will find Jim's Neo NY Pizza recipes.

I tried to post pics and links here, but could not because it says I am a new member.

Below is most of the text only version

Without question, if you try this recipe, do not take any shortcuts, this will be one of the best pies you will ever have and is similar to a Neapolitan Pizza. Really about the only thing besides not using Italian flour that is different, is that we are not cooking in a 900-degree oven, rather a 700+ degree grill (735). The reason for our choice of flour is:
1)      The King Arthur Sir Lancelot Flour we use has a high Protein content, higher than that of Caputo 00. More protein, less carbs, helps to make for a light airy, chewy crust. Keep in mind that even with the best flour, improper kneading technique will still yield poor results.

2)      The flavor of the Sir Lancelot is my favorite. You will know what I mean when you first just open the bag and sniff.  Because we are using American flour and a grill, this means ours can’t be called a “True” Neapolitan Pie. So that is why we call this recipe, Neo-New York. This will keep the folks with 1000-degree brick ovens and Italian flour from sending me nasty e-mails.

The following is a list of things you will need in order to prepare this pie. For one, and you better get used to this, you are going to have to purchase some things on the internet because they are not really available on the retail market. Here is the list and where you can get the items. Some of these things you will probably already have.

Things you will need
* Eight bricks (ones with holes called “frogs”) \ Lowes, Home Depot, or maybe your basement or back yard

* A good pizza stone that is as thick as you can buy \ Internet or Bed Bath and Beyond

* Smoker box \ Lowes

* Gas Grill, four burner \ Lowes, Home Depot, Etc

* Cherry and apple wood chips \ Bass Pro, Internet, ACE Hardware, or maybe your   back yard

* GOOD Pizza Peel \ Internet or Bed Bath and Beyond

* Stand Mixer like a KitchenAid or DLX \ Internet & department stores

* Pizza trays \ Wall Mart- Cheap!! (like $3)

* Sir Lancelot High Gluten Flour \ Internet, King Arthur web site

* San Marzano Certified Tomatoes \ Internet. May be able to buy locally, however to expensive.

* Two 1\2 gallon Ball jars

* Pizza Peel \ On line, or Bed Bath & Beyond

Ingredients you will need for Dough
* Two cups wild sourdough starter (poolish)

* One pack of instant yeast (optional-I use the instant yeast for an extra kick, just a pinch but not always)

* 3 cups Sir Lancelot High Gluten Flour

* 2 cups KAF White Whole Wheat Flour

* 1 cup King Arthur Bread Flour

* 1 1/2 cups warm, filtered spring water

* 2 teaspoons sea salt (add last)

* 2 teaspoons sugar

(Makes five medium pies)

NOTE: For a healthier crust, substitute more King Arthur Whole Wheat Flour for the bread flour. Makes an excellent crust! Also if you like a little bit more of a New York style crust, work in about 1\4 cup olive oil and 1\2 cup of corn meal into your dough, and use 1\2 cup bread flour. I make it both ways, both awesome! And yes- I know whole wheat is not very Neo- But, adds great flavor, structure, and so much better for you, so I included it in our main flour recipe. Skip it if you want.

Ingredients you will need for sauce (do not cook the sauce)
* Two cans San Marzano tomatoes

* 1\4 cup of red wine vinegar

* teaspoon crushed red pepper

* Fresh oregano to taste

* 1\2 cup fresh basil, chopped

* 1 teaspoon of sea salt

* Fresh cracked pepper to taste

* 4 cloves of crushed fresh garlic

* 1\4 cup fresh Ramono Cheese

(Note: Purists will only use San Marzano tomatoes, crushed by hand, with a little sea salt and pepper with some fresh basil. This IS a good way to go; however, I like to kick it up a little, with the recipe included here)

Cheese Topping

Use only fresh Mozzarella cheese, NOT the pre-shredded type. Shred your own fresh Motz or better yet, slice it, and put “Chunks” on your pie. Using fresh Motz, make sure the cheese has drained. Too high a water content is not what you want on your pie. Buffalo is the best, (import Water Buffalo) but very expensive. I do use it and can get it at a cheese shop about 30 minutes from my place. But at 12 bucks for like 7 ounces, it does not go very far. Using Buffalo, you may want to strain \ or- let the cheese dry out some before you bake. This will keep the cheese from becoming to watery while cooking.

*Fresh grated Romano and Parmesan cheese, on top of the Mozzarella.  

TIP: For a twist on the New York Style, try fresh smoked provolone cheese, then the Motz, then a few splashes of fresh grated extra sharp Cheddar Cheese.  The purists would consider it quite unconventional, but I LOVE IT!!!  

Sauce “101” (Pre Prep)

Mix the ingredients and put in a covered 1\2 gallon ball jar and place in the fridge the day before you bake. Don’t store your sauce in a plastic container; a glass jar is best. On pizza day, take it out and bring it to room temperature.

Be sure NOT to cook this sauce. The tomatoes have already been cooked in the can, they do not need to be cooked three times. I have taken San Marzano tomatoes right out of the can, crushed them by hand, and it was a GREAT pizza sauce, without adding any other ingredients. It is a matter of preference, try both and see what you like. You can also use a hand mixer with the tomatoes, just do not over blend. If your sauce gets too watery, you can strain it, but usually this has not been a problem for us. My preference is to hand crush the tomatoes, add all ingredients and then chill in the fridge. After a few hours I will hit it with the hand mixer to smooth out the sauce a little bit, then taste to see if it needs anything. Ends up with a great sauce!!

Lets Get “Started” (pre prep)

Probably the two best-kept secrets in the pie world are these:

 1    Yeast culture starter. “Wild” or other.

2        High-Gluten Protein Flour.

You can purchase a sourdough starter, like the King Arthur brand, that comes from a 250-year-old strain. There are cultures out there that are even many centuries older!

For the purpose of the “Do it Yourself, Perfect Pie”- make your own wild sourdough starter, which is what I do. It may sound hard and a bit crazy to some, but it is so simple!

Time to catch some fresh, wild yeast to get your own culture started!

In a Ball jar, combine 1 cup of flour with 1 cup of bottled spring/filtered water. I set mine outside in mild weather, with the lid loose for several hours to catch the tastiest of wild yeast! Yes, I set my starter out on the deck to catch the salty Chesapeake Bay breezes, all to help enhance what we affectionately call “Jim’s Starter by the Sea”.

 After several hours, I set the jar in the oven with the interior light on, and the oven OFF, overnight. In the morning, I found a nice grayish fluid, which is alcohol, sitting on top of the flour.  I stirred the liquid back in and removed ½ cup, before “re-feeding” the starter with 1cup flour, and ¾ cup water. By bedtime, I stirred the starter again, and on the third day, I stirred in the accumulated alcohol, removed ½” of discard, and fed again. Then let sit. Do this everyday for 3-6 days. My starter was ready to roll in three days, although it usually will take longer.  Depending on the amount of yeast, and the temperature of the environment, it will take 3 days to a month for the starter to be ready to use.

Store your starter in the fridge and feed it once a week by taking some out, using it, or give some to a friend. Re-feed the “Mother Jar” of starter with flour and water and let sit for a few hours, then put back in the fridge. (At this point, use equal parts flour and water to feed.)

You ALWAYS when using your starter want it to be at room temp and be at its peak of activity. Do this by taking out what you need in the morning (or night before) and re-feed it with some flour and water and let it sit out all day, then use it in the afternoon \ evening and it will work great.

When you store your starter in a fridge, the best thing to do is not use the top of the ball jar, use cellophane wrap and a rubber band around the top of the jar. Punch a very small hole in the cellophane to let the gas escape. I also have drilled some holes in the top of my starter jars and that works as well. Another tip is that once your starter is where you like it’s flavor and aroma, you don’t have to keep stirring in all the alcohol, you can pour some of it off, but I would not take 100% of it out. Leave a little to stir back in.

One other thing about your starter, never, never, never add anything to it except flour and water. No packet yeast, sugar, nothing. I mean NOTHING!!!! Keep your culture as pure as you can. When not in use, feed it once a week and back in the fridge ya go!

Smoke Your Meats (pre prep)

Making a good pie does require a bit of planning. While the dough is on a two to four day cold rise, I will plan on smoking up some dinners. Pork butts, sausage, Salmon, even Bacon. I will use these smoked meats for the Pie that I make, even vacuum seal them for later use. Weather you are topping your pie off with meats, or doing a seafood pie, smoke them to add UNREAL flavor to your pie.

There is a lot written out there about ovens, flours, types of tomatoes, fermentation, etc. All good info and important to the pie, however you will not believe what a difference some good smoked meats will make to the flavor of your pie. One of our favs is a hickory smoked BBQ pie with Cheddar Cheese and sauce. FANTASTIC!

WOODS- If you are going to be using smoked meats for pies, stick to fruit woods. Apple and Cherry are my two favs.

Fresh Fresh Fresh (Pre Prep)

For toppings, I will grind my own meats. Usually I will make meatballs out of veal, pork, and beef fresh grind cook then slice the meatballs to put on our pies. The KA attachments work well. I use the meat grinder to grind our meatballs patties.

Break out the Dough (Pre Prep)

About Flour.
True, you can make a great pie with AP and bread flour. However, using the high gluten flour does make a difference in the dough. When you go out for a pie at your local NY style family Pizzeria, they most likely are using a high gluten flour product. Great pizza is a combination of many, many, many little things, that will make a HUGE difference in your final product. The right high gluten flour is just one of those many things.

Don’t waste your time looking for high gluten flour at your local grocery store, you won’t find it. Order it on line and be done with it. King Arthur has probably the best flour you can get for making pies, “Sir Lancelot High Gluten Flour”. This product can be ordered on line from their web site, no prob. Just order a case of it and don’t worry about it. Once you use this flour, you probably will use nothing else for pizza dough. It is that good! The high gluten flour won’t burn, even at the high temps we are cooking our pies!

First, take your starter out of the fridge Wed morning and re feed it (the discard that you will bake with) as well as your “Mother Jar”. Once your starter (discard \ poolish) is ready later that day, then start to prepare by adding in your mixer bowl the two cups of poolish and two cups of high gluten flour into your mixer along with one cup warm spring water. (I use Dasani). And one cup of bread flour. Save the last cup of flour to add slowly during the end of kneading.

 I like to kick up my dough a bit so I will hit it with some instant yeast after Autolyse, this goes right into the mix with everything else above. Do not put salt in yet. The reason why I use one cup of bread flour instead of all high gluten is because the bread flour will give the dough some extra strength. When you are ready to pat out your pie, you won’t get any holes in your dough. Bread flour also is a high gluten product as well.


Making the Dough- A wet mix and Autolyse

Turn your mixer on low and slowly mix for three-four minutes or so. Then remove the bowl from the mixer and set aside and cover. Let stand for 30 minutes to four hours. The longer the Autolyse, the better gluten strands. This is a crucial step in your dough making. This Autolyse step is very important to give the structure and flavor that the dough needs. Don’t skip it. Most recipes if call for Autolyse will require 20-30 minutes. Do try the extended Autolyse up to four hours or so. It makes a difference.

NOTE: When you Autolyse, only add poolish, flour, and water, that is it. Mix for a few minutes then let stand for Autolyse period. Recomended four+ hours.

After autolyse, put back on the mixer and mix on low. This will be a very wet batter, will look almost like a pancake batter at this point, and that is what you want for now.

Should look like a batter during most of the kneading
Continue to mix for 13 minutes on low, then start adding in the remaining flour-SLOWLY over the next seven minutes. The dough should now start to form a soft ball. Increase the mixer speed during this last few minutes of kneading. Last-add your salt, pinch of yeast and a little olive oil if you like. Total kneading time in the mixer can be 18 to 25 minutes.

If the dough is too wet at the end, just add some more flour, but don’t overdo. You still want a fairly wet \ soft batter. You do NOT want, at the end of your knead, a somewhat thick hard ball of dough, you want it soft, high moisture content. It will be a little sticky on your fingers once you put it on the granite. Once you hit it with a little bench flour and hand knead it will not stick at all. It will be a VERY soft moist ball of dough.
Bulk Ferment
Then, pour dough ball on to a cool granite surface dusted with light flour. Try to use as little bench flour as possible. Hand knead lightly only for a couple of minutes. Form into a ball and place in a big bowl coated lightly with a little olive oil.

Let stand in covered bowl at room temp 1-2 hours or until it has increased by over a third in size, then cover with cellophane and place in fridge until Saturday morning. Day of pizza day, Saturday, take the dough out maybe two or three hours before your ready to make pizza. This last couple hours will bring the dough to room temp and rise a bit more. Don’t look for double bulk, that sort of thing. This dough recipe is about six to seven cups of flour, of which can make several pies easily. (four medium pies)

"Divi the dough"
 Here is an example of "Divi the dough". Instead of bulk ferment, simply place individual serving size in containers, then ferment for the same amount of time as a bulk ferment. This just saves a bit of time when it comes to making the pies. This is usually what you will see in a Pizza joint. The containers are cheap to, I think I paid five bucks at the dollar store for SIX containers. The other benifit is that the lids really help keep the moisture in. Works great.
Another two hours and this dough is hitting the grill!
Here as you can see on Pie day, in the morning I take out the containers and place them in the oven with the light on. They will rise again by about a third. You can see how well the dough has developed by looking at the see threw container. The smell is awesome, like a fine wine. This dough started on a Wed, and was ready for Saturday night.

Prep the grill

Place six bricks (the ones with holes in them called Frogs) in the center of your grill and place the pizza stone on top of the bricks. Take your soaked Cherry and Apple wood chips and place them in your smoker box.

This is a BIG factor in flavor and what separates this pie from most. The fruitwoods that are smoke on the grill while the pie is cooking. You will not believe how good this is, and it is what they do in Naples. The difference is I like the flavors of apple and cherry smoke as opposed to oak, and, I am cooking at 600+ degrees, not 900+ degrees.


The pie is only on the grill for 7-9 minutes, and it is a good idea to rotate the pie just once half way through the cooking time. Not as important here as it is in a brick oven. The gas grill has the benefit of even heat distribution. Moisture is not really a problem inside the grill. In a 100% enclosed brick oven, I can see where gas fed fire could have possibly a moisture issue. Don’t think for a minute the pie will taste like smoke either, it does not. The pie is not on the grill long enough. But it is just long enough to have just a hint of the flavor.

Turn on your grill, all four burners, and set to “high”. It is important that the bottom of your grill is clean and free of a lot of grease build up. If you have been smoking pork buts the previous weekend, you will need to clean your grill prior to pizza day. You will be cooking at high temps, and you don’t want any flame-ups from old grease and food trash that is in your grill. CLEAN YOUR GRILL!

(Below pies are loaded and super saucy.)

 Note: A traditional Neo pie would have a LOT less sauce and ingredients which is fine. For our taste, we like them a bit more loaded. They are a bit more messy, but cook up nice taste fantastic. More does not necessarily mean better, a lot of cooks limit toppings to two or three and can understand why.

For our pie parties, I will mix it up a lot, from a rather straight forward light sauce one topping Neo style pie, to a loaded pan, deep dish, and skillet pie all in one evening! The variety is just too much fun! Try it next time you hold a Pie Party)

The reason for the Frog bricks is two-fold.

1)      To elevate the pizza stone higher in the grill to take advantage of the higher temps.

2)      The bricks hold a TON of heat and will help your pizza stone get even hotter, and maintain the same heat level while you open and close the grill.

It is important to let your grill come up to temp, prob. around 45 minutes before putting your pie on the stone.

Pie pictured here without frog bricks. Smoker box is to the left.
The grill is now reaching the 600+ degree mark, the wood chunks have a nice smoke going and soon you are about to have one of the best pizzas you can have in the world, and it only takes about 7+ minutes on the grill. Remember that at the time of assembly, you want everything at room temp. The dough, ingredients, sauce, pretty much everything except the cheese, which should be kept cool right up until the time of prep.

Lets go for a stretch

To prepare your pie, put your dough on your  floured granite surface and pat out to the size you want. STRETCH the dough by hand. Go for a thin layer, but don’t overwork it. It does not really ‘Knead” that.  Use as little bench flour as you can get away with. Do not use a rolling pin.
Grilled thin crust in background, Cast Iron Skilet Pie in foreground
Put corn meal on your pizza Peel and transfer your dough onto your peel.  ALWAYS test your dough on the peel to make sure it does not stick. Work very fast once you put the dough on the peel. Add sauce to your dough, then the motz cheese and toppings. Don’t overdo with the toppings, go light. Add fresh herbs, I like basil and some chives from your herb garden-very good!  Also, top off the pie with a light once-over of olive oil.

If you are going to be using veggie toppings, sausage, etc, PRECOOK them before it hits the grill. Try your first pie with just the Motz and one other item at first. You will find that the dough and sauce is so good, you don’t really need a lot of other stuff on the pie. I am a pepperoni freak, so yeah, I cut my own fresh and it makes a great pie. The pre-sliced pepperoni can’t compare.

Transfer your pizza from the peel to the grill; cook for only 7-9 minutes.

After the pie is done, transfer it to a pizza tray and serve. That is about it.

I leave freshly shaved cheese on the table in case folks want to add more.



Other JB's pies include the Pan and Chicago Deep Dish, check below.

Time for the “Pan Trick”---Pan it man!

For those of us who REALLY like a saucy pizza with a mound of cheese and toppings, here is a great tip on how to make such a pie, without any accidental Pizza Peel Disaster Recovery Programs.


I have only been using Pizza stones for the past 10 to 15 years. The previous 30 years, I always used a pan coated with olive oil. This gave the crust a crunchy nice texture which I liked very much. The other benefit is that you can pile on the sauce and cheese and not have to worry about Pizza Peel Disasters. So, what I like to do, and is actually about my favorite way to do Pizza, is a combination of both, and here is how you do it.
Basically, what you do is start your pie off in the oven or on the grill in a pan coated with olive oil. I will cook the pie about 3\4 the way threw, or about 8 minutes. Just long enough for the dough to really cook and form.
Next, gently slide your Pizza Peel under you pie and slide it on to the peel from the pan. Very easy to do, the pie is mostly cooked, holds together, and you are not slinging around raw sauce off a peel.
This only takes a second to take off the pan on to the peel. Next, simply place the pie on the stone and close your grill, or oven, which ever you are using. Cook for an additional five minutes or until the bottom has a slight char.

While the pie is cooking on the stone, I will already have the broiler on in the oven. When I take the pie off the stone, then I place the pie under the broiler for less than one minute.

Remember, this is a THICK pie, and by broiling it off just for a moment at the end, it browns things off very nice and the pie will not be watery due to the fresh motz. This step will thicken everything up nicely.

All this may seem like a lot of steps, but it really is simple and takes little effort. Just start off the pie in the pan, then transfer it to the stone, then broil off at the very end.

 When we have pie parties, I will make between 5 to 10 pies all of which are different types.  This pie is the one I do for those like me who like it really extra saucey and cheesy. We have been cooking pies like this for the last 40 years.
Slide Pie to stone for the last four minutes of cooking before hitting the broiler
Super Saucy thick with mounds of Bufalo Cheese, Pepperoni, schrooms and olives

To my surprise, I recently found out that one of the best known Pizza restaurants in Virginia (my home state) that was open for over 30 years, never used a peel, nor even a standard Pizza oven. All the pies were cooked in pans. These were some of the best pies I have ever had. Personally, I like best the combination of both, especially for a real saucy pie. Try it!!!

Also try this for a pan --a cast iron skillet pie! A good seasoned pie will not stick and makes for a great deep dish pie.
Pie on top is a Skillet Pie, on bottom a traditional Deep Dish using a spring form pan.
Cast Iron Skillet Pie

 It’s Ready!! 

You will find that it is much harder to go out for pizza when you  know that you can easily, and very much afford to cook some of the best pies in the world at home. That is what is so amazing; the cost of cooking these pies can be very, very little. Do make the investment in the Sir Lancelot Flour, that is worth it for sure, as well are the San Marzano tomatoes. However the fact is, you can splurge on a couple of ingredients and have the best pizza in the world, at a third the cost of a mediocre, local conveyer belt-cooked pie, with ketchup for sauce!

   Lastly I would like to thank King Arthur Flour for making such a fantastic flour product. I have been using their bread flour for a long time, and the Sir Lancelot for Pizza Dough is just a dream come true. Thank you folks!!

“May your future be filled with gourmet pizza for years to come!!!!”


Since we published this recipe, we have moved on to a new grill that is better suited for grilling pies. It is a Infrared gas grill. This is a great grill for pies because the heat is more evenly distrubited across the grill and the heat stays hotter at the grill level because of the grates and plates above the burners. It also has a temp gauge right at grate level so you know exactly what your cooking temp is even at the crust level. This grill is getting 700+ degrees very quickly!

I also bought a seperate smoker \ electric for doing our butts, ribs and chicken. Works great. The reason I went to a smoker is because I wanted to keep this new infrared grill ALWAYS extremely clean. At temps of 600+, flair ups happen EASY!!! You dont want any pork fat in your grill at all.

So for the most part, I only use the new Infrared for pies, steaks, grilling veggies, that sort of thing. And keep it clean and always coat the interior with a cooking spray. If your going to be grilling a lot of pies,

keep your buts on a smoker!!

Try our deep dish recipe! Really good!

Jim Baugh

Jim Baugh Outdoors TV


My dad, Judge Baugh for raising me on Pizza. THANKS POPS!

King Arthur Flour, Norwich Vermont.

Suzanne Cote
Ruth Gurganus, Editor.
Sourdough Baking, John Ross
Celebrity Room Pizza

Captain Bill Parkenson


Jim Baugh
Jim Baugh Outdoors TV