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Author Topic: A new style?  (Read 564 times)

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Offline Aimless Ryan

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A new style?
« on: September 18, 2017, 02:27:35 PM »
This just occurred to me. I feel like laminated crust should be considered a totally different style than either cracker or American. Shakey's, Round Table, Tommy's, and probably the majority of independent pizzas in central Ohio to me all have something that make them the same style. But this style bridges two different recognized styles. I say get laminated out of cracker and out of American and give it its own board. Because a lot of the laminated crusts I've had here in central Ohio are far from either cracker style or American style but are related to other laminated pizzas, which are considered either cracker or American.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: A new style?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2017, 10:00:05 PM »
Huh?
The way I look at it is like this, you can make just about any type of crust that suits your fancy using a laminated dough process of one type or another, laminating is just a procedural step, much like kneading the dough, as that, it is just a means to an end, you laminate the dough in an attempt to achieve some type of a specific finished crust characteristic. There are different ways to laminate the dough, one is with the use of a solid/plastic fat like butter, margarine, or a commercial roll-in fat, by this process layers of fat and dough are constructed which imparts a specific characteristic to the finished crust. Of you develop but just a few layers of fat and dough you end up with a pretty common looking crust but with large holes throughout the entire crust. If you develop many (90 to 120) layers you can have a crust that is much more flaky, think Danish pastry. The other process is called dry laminating, by this process no fat is used as a roll-in, instead, the dough is allowed to dry/crust over and then folded back upon itself as a layering/laminating process. This is the process that is used by many of the cracker manufacturers to make saltines and club crackers. This method is difficult to employ in a pizzeria as it requires the application of warm air to the surface of the sheeted dough to dry it in preparation for laminating but it is very well suited to a commercial production line. Lastly, there is what is referred to as the "blitz" method, by this method fat flakes or pieces of refrigerated fat (butter) are incorporated into the dough so that the fat pieces remain in the dough, the dough is than processed in a pretty normal manner for pizza dough. When the dough is baked the fat pieces (about the size of a pea) melt out and leave a void which creates the visual effect of having laminated the dough. If this method sounds familiar it's because it is essentially the same method used to make a flaky pie dough.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: A new style?
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2017, 08:59:37 AM »
My point was that every laminated pizza has much more in common with other laminated pizzas than it does with any other existing style. Consequently, I think laminated pizza should be considered a style. At least on these boards.

As one of probably two laminated pizza geaks on these boards/on the planet, I feel my thoughts are worth considering.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A new style?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 10:56:43 AM »
Ryan,

Since Tom has indicated that there are many ways to create laminations in a crust, are you suggesting that all such methods be aggregated in a new board, or only laminations that are produced by physically rolling, folding and rerolling, and the like?

Peter

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: A new style?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 10:35:20 PM »
I don't know if I can answer that. All I know is that I feel like Tommy's (cracker) and Shakey's (cracker) both have a lot more in common with Round Table (American) than they have in common with what I think people generally consider either cracker style or American style. There is something unique about laminated crust that I think makes more of an expression of style than whatever criteria has been used to label them either cracker or American.

If you take the most "authentic" New York style dough and laminate it, it's laminated pizza, not New York style pizza.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: A new style?
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2017, 04:12:56 PM »
Ryan,

Over the years, we have had members suggest that we add more boards to the forum. For example, we have had requests to add boards for the New Haven style, the St. Louis style, the Detroit style (apart from its Sicilian origins), a VPN-specific Neapolitan style, and a separate home version for the Neapolitan style. We also had a member, pftaylor, tell us that his pizzas were neither Neapolitan nor NY style but more like a cross between those styles, for which there was not a board directed to his version (much in the vein of the pizzas made by Chris Bianco). Unfortunately for those members, Steve has resisted bulking up the forum with a lot more boards inasmuch as there are boards like the General Pizza Making and Other Types to capture threads that are hard to classify or have volumes too low to support their own boards. In some cases, as with the Neapolitan board, it would have taken an extraordinary amount of work to create separate boards because of the thousands of posts (70 pages of threads) on the Neapolitan board that would have to be examined. As a result, over the years there have been few new boards added to the forum, and even in those cases we had to first convince Steve to add them. That is how the gluten free board came into existence, and that is how two boards were created out of one for restaurant recommendations and reviews.

I have not had any of the pizzas from the places you mentioned so I do not consider myself qualified to go through the hundreds of threads and posts in the American and Cracker boards (and possibly others?) to isolate the threads along the lines you have mentioned and aggregate them in a new board. That would entail reading all of the threads and the posts embodied therein, which could take a lot of work. I am not sure that Steve or any of the other Mods would be up to the task, if even if they understand the criteria for the project.

Because of the above concerns, one of the things that might work for you is to create a thread that serves your purposes and to make it a sticky. With the help of other members, I have done this a few times where members requested specific listings of pizza styles. You can see examples at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=16422.msg160335#msg160335, https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=30343.msg302527#msg302527, and https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36964.msg368305#msg368305. Member Garvey created a list for sausage formulations at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=37026.msg369214#msg369214. All of those collections took a lot of time and work to put together. But if someone is willing to do the same with your criteria in mind, in a format along the lines of the threads referenced above, I would be willing to review the work product and if it passes muster make it a sticky. As you will note from the above sticky examples, and others like them on the forum, they can be modified to add new items. But only Steve or a Moderator can made the additions.

Peter


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: A new style?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2017, 03:37:16 PM »
I don't I think I was really requesting anything. More like planting a seed. If the seed takes root someday, so be it.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

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