Author Topic: My latest experiment  (Read 1399 times)

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Offline bioubiou

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My latest experiment
« on: April 29, 2011, 02:38:35 PM »
After a few months of reading this forum and experimenting I've decided to post my formula and results.

Total Formula:
Flour (100%):
Water (64%):
Salt (2%):
IDY (0.2%):
Oil (2%):
Total (168.2%):
Single Ball:


Final Dough:

1163.34 g  |  41.03 oz | 2.56 lbs
744.54 g  |  26.26 oz | 1.64 lbs
23.27 g | 0.82 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.85 tsp | 1.62 tbsp
2.33 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.77 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
23.27 g | 0.82 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.17 tsp | 1.72 tbsp
1956.74 g | 69.02 oz | 4.31 lbs | TF = 0.104
391.35 g | 13.8 oz | 0.86 lbs
145.42 g | 5.13 oz | 0.32 lbs
145.42 g | 5.13 oz | 0.32 lbs
290.84 g | 10.26 oz | 0.64 lbs

1017.92 g | 35.91 oz | 2.24 lbs
599.12 g | 21.13 oz | 1.32 lbs
23.27 g | 0.82 oz | 0.05 lbs | 4.85 tsp | 1.62 tbsp
2.33 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.77 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
290.84 g | 10.26 oz | 0.64 lbs
23.27 g | 0.82 oz | 0.05 lbs | 5.17 tsp | 1.72 tbsp
1956.74 g | 69.02 oz | 4.31 lbs  | TF = 0.104

The flour was a 75/25 mix of Milanaise Sifted Bread Flour (local organic flour, not quite white, but far from whole) and Granoro "00".
The preferment is a sourdough starter.

I used a 30 minutes autolyse, then added the salt and hand mixed the dough (about 250 slap & folds). Then let it rest for another 20 minutes,divided it and put it in the fridge for about 26 hours.

The pizzas were baked in a regular electric GE oven, using a cordierite stone (bought at nybakers). The oven temperature rises slightly above 550°F  with the broiler on and I let the stone heat up for about an hour.

The pizzas took about 7 minutes to bake with the last 2 minutes or so with the broiler on. I still cannot get anything done under this time.

Thanks everybody for the advice, and comments welcome !



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Re: My latest experiment
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2011, 04:14:33 AM »
Beru, welcome to the forum.

That's an impressive first post.  For just a few months of lurking, you seem to have a grasp of concepts that many beginning bakers take a long time to learn, such as the weighing of the flour and water, baking directly on a stone and the importance of a quick bake time.

I'm also impressed by the amount of oven spring you were able to achieve with a whole-wheat-ish flour. Whole wheat tends to be the enemy of volume.

My primary advice to you is to walk before you run.  Both whole wheat flour and starters are advanced pizzamaking.  First, master traditional, yeast leavened, white flour NY style pizza and then graduate to specialty flour and sourdough.

When you speak of a 'Milanaise' flour being local, it is safe to assume that you live near Milan? Do you have access to white bread flour? If memory serves me correctly, Europeans generally don't have access to American flours, but, with a little investigation, they can get their hands on Canadian bread flours. That's what I'd look for.

Gluten is developed during refrigeration.  With overnight refrigeration, you don't need anything close to 250 folds at the start. 250 folds will most likely produce window paning.  If you reach that point on a dough that's going to be cold fermented, you've gone too far.  The dough balls should be lumpy and have a cottage cheese appearance before going into the fridge.

As far as trimming the bake time goes... a 5/8" cordierite stone is good for baking bread at lower temps, but at 550, 7 minutes is about the best you're ever going to do. You either have to trick your oven into exceeding 550 (frozen towel, insulating the thermostat, cleaning cycle, etc.) or purchase a more conductive stone.  1/2" steel plate is what I recommend.  The nice thing about steel plate is that it's available just about anywhere in the world.

Offline bioubiou

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Re: My latest experiment
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2011, 12:16:32 PM »
Thank you scott !

Actually "La milanaise" (lamilanaise.com) is a mill in Québec who's the main producer of organic flours here. They do have a white, all-purpose flour but this time I wanted to try making pizzas with their bread flour which has a higher gluten content. It is not whole wheat really, just a bit darker than all-purpose.

By the way I have also been making bread several times a week for the past few months, so I'm really starting to understand starters etc... But your advice about kneading is a good one and will save me a lot of effort ! (although I don't quite reach window paning after the 250 slap and folds)...

I had really hoped that my new cordierite stone would take me under 7 minutes, but I have understood this time that it wouldn't get me much further than my older, 20$-stone (now cracked). That's too bad really. Have some people tried to calibrate their oven ? I think I could get it a few degrees higher that way. But would it be worth it ?

Also, I don't quite understand what hydration does. I know it gives oven spring and a more irregular crumb. What I don't get is how it relates to cooking time and browning. So if anybody could shed some light on this subject I would be very grateful.

Also I have read in other posts that "00" flour absorbs much less water than regular bread flour. What about a mix of the two as I'm using ? What do you guys think of the 75/25 00/bread flour mix along with a 64% hydration. Last time I tried with 66% and it worked too, although I think the crust was less brown, but less dry as well, using the same cooking times.

Anyway thanks again !

Offline chickenparm

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Re: My latest experiment
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2011, 10:07:23 PM »
Mighty fine work there!!! Tasty looking Pie!You are doing things I have not even started to try yet so keep up the great job!Welcome to the forum!

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: My latest experiment
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2011, 11:31:04 AM »
Very nice pie and first post indeed, well done!
I, for one, always calibrate my oven as part of my particular bake regimen.  Not sure if this alone would make a diff for you.
There are many gyrations and variations use by forum members to get the temps and top and bottom heat distribution they need out of their home ovens.  And that varies depending on the type of NY pie.  Blondish street slice, blistered NYapolitan, charred coal ovenish, something in between.  With all the inventive and creative solutions I have read and my own attempts, I am confident your answer is out there.  The challenge is finding out which one/s will work for you.  And since no two situations are ever the same it seems, it is only trial and error my friend that will get you there.  Sorry about that.
In my specific case, I can affirm successful sub 4 minute pies, and a char fest at 5 minutes using cordierite.  Others have achieved Nearlypolitan results in their home ovens.
Your mileage will probably vary.  That tends to half the fun though.
Re hydration, there are many on the forum with advanced knowledge and experience on this.  Unfortunately, these folks also tend to have the highest number of posts so although I have learned a ton from them all, finding specific threads is quite a search.  So is searching for “hydration”.  But maybe you could start here.
Keep on bakin"