Mystery Pizza by Steve and Me at Market Yesterday

[c0mpl3x]

norma, you've inspired me to a similar idea i've been kicking around.  will post shortly with results 

[norma427]

norma, you've inspired me to a similar idea i've been kicking around.  will post shortly with results 

c0mpl3x,

I like to see and read about any different kinds of tests or experiments with pizza.  Will be watching for what you try and your results.

Norma

[c0mpl3x]

c0mpl3x,

I like to see and read about any different kinds of tests or experiments with pizza.  Will be watching for what you try and your results.

Norma

lol, i forgot that the 'toast' function of my toaster oven is 'constant on' and i burned it.  oops.    but here's the recipe

120g bisquick
5g oil
3g yeast
1g salt (already salt and baking soda present)
4g sugar
60g water

mixed it up let it sit 30mins made a pan pizza in toaster oven pan. looked great until i gave it the toaster 'broil' to brown the top and forgot about it.

[norma427]

lol, i forgot that the 'toast' function of my toaster oven is 'constant on' and i burned it.  oops.    but here's the recipe

120g bisquick
5g oil
3g yeast
1g salt (already salt and baking soda present)
4g sugar
60g water

mixed it up let it sit 30mins made a pan pizza in toaster oven pan. looked great until i gave it the toaster 'broil' to brown the top and forgot about it.

c0mpl3x,

You idea and experiment for a fast pizza using Bisquick sounds really good. Lol, you forgot about the toast on your toaster oven being constantly on.  I could see that your method and experiment might work.  Do you plan on doing the experiment again?  There are many recipes for using Bisquick on the web for pizza dough.  These are just a few of the recipes.  I never tried any of these, but they look like they are quick.

http://www.cooks.com/rec/view/0,194,143176-237206,00.html

http://www.cooks.com/rec/view/0,1941,146160-251201,00.html

http://www.food.com/recipe/astonishingly-easy-yeasty-bisquick-pizza-dough-222066

There are also recipes from Betty Crocker like:

http://www.bettycrocker.com/recipes/bisquick-pizza/df578e3c-9ca3-438b-8780-06f6ea9434c2

Thanks for sharing your results.

Norma

[c0mpl3x]

i think i might omit the oil period, from what i could feel from the very dark brown broiler 'oops' crust, it's as soft or softer than store bread.   probably too soft for a non-pan pizza (ie: NY/neo), but as a sicilian or on it's own as a bread.  the initial handling of the dough was just way too non-gluten, i could do 100 stretch and folds and i don't see a surface tension to it.  i did about 20, and i could barely notice a difference.  i will be trying it again, one with CY and the other with IDY.

[norma427]

i think i might omit the oil period, from what i could feel from the very dark brown broiler 'oops' crust, it's as soft or softer than store bread.   probably too soft for a non-pan pizza (ie: NY/neo), but as a sicilian or on it's own as a bread.  the initial handling of the dough was just way too non-gluten, i could do 100 stretch and folds and i don't see a surface tension to it.  i did about 20, and i could barely notice a difference.  i will be trying it again, one with CY and the other with IDY.

c0mpl3x,

I don’t have a Bisquick box at home right now, but I do use Bisquick occasionally to make pancakes and shortcake for strawberries. I have used Bisquick in the past to make biscuits. I don’t know what kind of flour is added to the mix, but I think there is some kind of fat already in the mix.  I also think there is some kind of milk product in the mix, but I am not sure.  Either the kind of flour, fat, or if there is a milk product in the Bisquick could make your dough softer.  At least that is what I am thinking, but don’t know. 

You posted that the Bisquick mix didn’t form gluten, and the dough was way too soft, even if you did stretch and folds.  I don’t know if you could also try another flour in combination with your Bisquick or not to make the gluten form better.

I look forward to your results if you use CY and IDY in your pizza mix.   

Norma

[Pete-zza]

c0mpl3x and Norma,

To see the ingredients for all of the Betty Crocker Bisquick mixes, go to http://www.generalmills.com/Home/Brands/Baking_Products/Gold_Medal/Brand%20Product%20List%20Page.aspx, click on the Bisquick link under Brands, and then click on the Nutrition Facts button to get to the particular version of the product desired, such as the Bisquick Original. Since the Bisquick mix is used mostly for biscuits, pancakes and waffles and the like, I would guess that they are using cake flour (bromated, without malting). Being low in protein and gluten formation, I would imagine that it would be hard to develop whatever small amount of gluten the flour can form. Adding a higher protein flour to the Bisquick mix as Norma mentioned should help convert the Bisquick mix to a pizza crust mix. Note, also, our old friends baking soda and sodium aluminum phosphate, which are used in all of the pizza crust mixes shown in Reply 23 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13686.msg137206.html#msg137206.

Also, check out the Bisquick Complete Buttermilk Biscuits mix. It has egg, a milk product (buttermilk) and soy flour, much like the Betty Crocker pizza crust mix that Norma used for her mystery pizza:

Betty Crocker
Ingredients: Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley, Niacin, Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Partially Hydrogenated Soybean and/or Cottonseed Oil, Dextrose, Dried Yeast, Salt, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Baking Soda, Egg, Nonfat Milk, Soy Flour, Freshness Preserved by BHA

Take the Bisquick Complete Buttermilk Biscuits mix, add a stronger (malted) flour to it, along with some yeast, and maybe you have a cheaper version of the Betty Crocker pizza crust mix. Then, just add water.

Peter

[Trinity]

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2106.0.html

[norma427]

c0mpl3x and Norma,

To see the ingredients for all of the Betty Crocker Bisquick mixes, go to http://www.generalmills.com/Home/Brands/Baking_Products/Gold_Medal/Brand%20Product%20List%20Page.aspx, click on the Bisquick link under Brands, and then click on the Nutrition Facts button to get to the particular version of the product desired, such as the Bisquick Original. Since the Bisquick mix is used mostly for biscuits, pancakes and waffles and the like, I would guess that they are using cake flour (bromated, without malting). Being low in protein and gluten formation, I would imagine that it would be hard to develop whatever small amount of gluten the flour can form. Adding a higher protein flour to the Bisquick mix as Norma mentioned should help convert the Bisquick mix to a pizza crust mix. Note, also, our old friends baking soda and sodium aluminum phosphate, which are used in all of the pizza crust mixes shown in Reply 23 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13686.msg137206.html#msg137206.

Also, check out the Bisquick Complete Buttermilk Biscuits mix. It has egg, a milk product (buttermilk) and soy flour, much like the Betty Crocker pizza crust mix that Norma used for her mystery pizza:

Betty Crocker
Ingredients: Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley, Niacin, Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Partially Hydrogenated Soybean and/or Cottonseed Oil, Dextrose, Dried Yeast, Salt, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Baking Soda, Egg, Nonfat Milk, Soy Flour, Freshness Preserved by BHA

Take the Bisquick Complete Buttermilk Biscuits mix, add a stronger (malted) flour to it, along with some yeast, and maybe you have a cheaper version of the Betty Crocker pizza crust mix. Then, just add water.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for finding all the information out about the Original Bisquick and the Buttemilk Bisquick Biscuit Mix. I had tried to find that information, but couldn’t. I wonder how a buttermilk Bisquick biscuit, cheese-garlic biscuit mix, three cheese biscuit mix, or even a gluten-free mix would taste for a pizza.  I have to go to the supermarket later today and might look to see if they carry any of those mixes. 

I also see our old friends ( baking soda and sodium aluminum phosphate) are still there waiting for us. 

Norma

[norma427]

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2106.0.html

Trinity,

I, like Peter did at Reply 73 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2106.msg67808.html#msg67808 would like nominate you to the Chef Boyardee Hall of Fame! 

Did you make five total pizzas with the mix or mixes or more? 

It was very interesting to see all the way you use the Chef Boyardee products to create pizza in differnent ways.  You are very creative and your pizzas did look great! 

Norma

[Trinity]

 About time I make another...

[Pete-zza]

Thanks for finding all the information out about the Original Bisquick and the Buttemilk Bisquick Biscuit Mix. I had tried to find that information, but couldn’t.

Norma,

Believe me, it was not easy. I was able to find the typical consumer information (like recipes) for the Bisquick products quite quickly and easily but not the ingredients lists and nutrition facts. But, being a "blue vase" type, I was not to be denied. I went back to one of my posts on the Better for Bread flour and found the link to the entire GM consumer products list. Once I got that, I was in business.

One of the things that should be kept in mind in adapting a Bisquick mix to a pizza crust mix is that when you add a stronger flour to the mix in order to get better gluten formation and development more in line with a pizza dough, you reduce the percents of all of the other ingredients in relation to the weight of the final flour mix. That means that you have to increase the quantities of all of the ingredients in the ingredients list other than the flour. You might also note that the Bisquick Original mix contains three components for its leavening system: baking soda, sodium aluminum phosphate and monocalcium phosphate. If I am not mistaken, that is a baking powder. Since you are unlikely to find an over the counter retail product with that exact mix, you may have to use a baking powder that uses sodium aluminum sulphate which, as noted in the Cook's Illustrated article at http://www.cooksillustrated.com/tastetests/overview.asp?docid=9931, is apparently used interchangeably with sodium aluminum phosphate. I think that a product like Clabber Girl, as discussed at http://whatscookingamerica.net/Q-A/BakingPowder.htm, might do the trick. As noted above, adjustment of the quantities of the other ingredient will be necessary to keep the proportions in proper order. In lieu of dextrose, you might just add a bit more sugar.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Believe me, it was not easy. I was able to find the typical consumer information (like recipes) for the Bisquick products quite quickly and easily but not the ingredients lists and nutrition facts. But, being a "blue vase" type, I was not to be denied. I went back to one of my posts on the Better for Bread flour and found the link to the entire GM consumer products list. Once I got that, I was in business.

One of the things that should be kept in mind in adapting a Bisquick mix to a pizza crust mix is that when you add a stronger flour to the mix in order to get better gluten formation and development more in line with a pizza dough, you reduce the percents of all of the other ingredients in relation to the weight of the final flour mix. That means that you have to increase the quantities of all of the ingredients in the ingredients list other than the flour. You might also note that the Bisquick Original mix contains three components for its leavening system: baking soda, sodium aluminum phosphate and monocalcium phosphate. If I am not mistaken, that is a baking powder. Since you are unlikely to find an over the counter retail product with that exact mix, you may have to use a baking powder that uses sodium aluminum sulphate which, as noted in the Cook's Illustrated article at http://www.cooksillustrated.com/tastetests/overview.asp?docid=9931, is apparently used interchangeably with sodium aluminum phosphate. I think that a product like Clabber Girl, as discussed at http://whatscookingamerica.net/Q-A/BakingPowder.htm, might do the trick. As noted above, adjustment of the quantities of the other ingredient will be necessary to keep the proportions in proper order. In lieu of dextrose, you might just add a bit more sugar.

Peter

Peter,

I know you are a “blue vase” type, just like Vincent Van Gogh in his creative painting of the “flowers in a blue vase”, but different, in you will find information if it can be found.  You are also like a blue vase in many other ways.  Hope noone refers to you as the “blue vase” in the future.    Good to hear that the Better for Bread flour led you onto the right trail.  I also tried to look under Bisquick and all I found was recipe after recipe, no matter what I did.  

I first will see if my supermarket carries any of the biscuit mixes.  I am going to a smaller supermarket, but a much larger one just opened about a block away. I don’t know if I want to get into all the mess of all the people at the new supermarket.  I am now using a baking powder without sodium aluminum sulphate (Argo), but I looked in my cupboard and I do have Kraft Calumet.  The ingredients listed are: baking soda, cornstarch, sodium aluminum sulfate, calcium sulfate, and monocalcium phosphate, so it looks like I could be in business for another try at a biscuit pizza if I find one of the biscuit mixes.

Norma

[norma427]

 About time I make another...

Trinity,

Go ahead an make another if you have time.  I would be looking forward to seeing what you do the next time!

Norma

[Pete-zza]

I know you are a “blue vase” type, just like Vincent Van Gogh in his creative painting of the “flowers in a blue vase”, but different, in you will find information if it can be found.

Norma,

LOL. I perhaps should have said "blue steel pan" instead of "blue vase".

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

LOL. I perhaps should have said "blue steel pan" instead of "blue vase".

Peter

Peter,

I know you have researched those “blue steel” pans for a long while.  That is what makes you unique.  This is a little history about “blue vases”.  http://books.google.com/books?id=Sv8tAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA709&lpg=PA709&dq=how+are+old+blue+vases+made&source=bl&ots=WXloFP0KgA&sig=XrTt   I guess all those people that were making “blue vases” many years ago, also had to do much research to find everything they needed to know, because the blue vases did change over time.

Norma

[Botch]

Per a couple requests, above:

ForYourKitchen Basic Pizza Crust  (make one 14" - 16" pizza)

1.5 cup hot water
2 tsp salt
2 Tblspn sugar
2.5 tsp SAF IDY
3-4 cups whole wheat or unbleached flour
1 tsp Dough Enhancer

Combine all ingredients in Bosch   mixing bowl and knead for 8-10 minutes.  Place cornmeal or wheat flour on the pizza peel then roll out the dough.  Remember to pick the pizza peel up and slide the dough back and forth to be sure pizza doesn't stick to the peel.  
 
That's it.  
 
As long as I have the handout in front of me, here's his recipe for Barbeque Chicken pizza (I'm not a fan of the style but it wasn't too bad):
1/4 cup barbeque sauce
1/4 cup tomato sauce
1 cup cooked, shredded chicken
1/2 cup thinly-sliced red onion
Mozzarella grated
Fresh cilantro
Combine the two sauces and spread over the pizza, top with chicken and onion.  Bake at 500 on a stone for 5-6 minutes.  Remove with peel, top with cheese, and return to oven 1 minute.  Remove and sprinkle with cilantro.  

[norma427]

Per a couple requests, above:

ForYourKitchen Basic Pizza Crust  (make one 14" - 16" pizza)

1.5 cup hot water
2 tsp salt
2 Tblspn sugar
2.5 tsp SAF IDY
3-4 cups whole wheat or unbleached flour
1 tsp Dough Enhancer

Combine all ingredients in Bosch   mixing bowl and knead for 8-10 minutes.  Place cornmeal or wheat flour on the pizza peel then roll out the dough.  Remember to pick the pizza peel up and slide the dough back and forth to be sure pizza doesn't stick to the peel.  
 
That's it.  
 
As long as I have the handout in front of me, here's his recipe for Barbeque Chicken pizza (I'm not a fan of the style but it wasn't too bad):
1/4 cup barbeque sauce
1/4 cup tomato sauce
1 cup cooked, shredded chicken
1/2 cup thinly-sliced red onion
Mozzarella grated
Fresh cilantro
Combine the two sauces and spread over the pizza, top with chicken and onion.  Bake at 500 on a stone for 5-6 minutes.  Remove with peel, top with cheese, and return to oven 1 minute.  Remove and sprinkle with cilantro.  

Botch,

Thanks for posting the recipe from your Reply 37 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13686.msg137388.html#msg137388

I really like any kind of pizza with chicken.  Thanks for posting that recipe also! 

Norma

[norma427]

I went to my family owned supermarket and got the groceries I needed, but they didn’t have any of the Bisquick Biscuit mixes.  I then went to the new supermarket that just opened and they had these two kinds of Bisquick Biscuit mixes.  I also purchased some Clabber Girl double acting baking powder.  I hate to ask this question, but how do I know how much baking powder and other ingredients to add to the biscuit mixes for a pizza dough, if I want to try one of these Bisquick mixes on Tuesday?

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Can you give us a broad outline of what you are thinking of doing?

Peter