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Author Topic: Neapolitan dough in a spiral mixer  (Read 305 times)

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Offline AntonioT

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Neapolitan dough in a spiral mixer
« on: September 18, 2020, 12:26:49 PM »
Just got a spiral mixer and made my first dough in it. Neapolitan. 65% hydration. Using poolish preferment. I let it mix in the mixer for 18 mins. Then balled a in the cooler for 48 Hour before using. Im find the gluten structure to be on the weak side. When I open the base I get tears in dough. Am I over mixing, under mixing? The dough mass itself got to 92.1f. 00 flour. 2.5% salt. 12.5% was the poolish. When I was making dough by hand Id knead for 20 mins. Then rest for 15. Then flip and fold 4x. Then rest 15 more mins. Then flip and fold 4x again. One final rest for 15 mins then Portion and ball. How would I translate that process to a spiral mixer to get the same great stretch in my base?

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Neapolitan dough in a spiral mixer
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2020, 12:41:04 PM »
92F is much too hot for your dough. What was the temperature of the water that you were using to make the dough with? Also, please tell us about the formulation, age and amount of poolish you used.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline AntonioT

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Re: Neapolitan dough in a spiral mixer
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2020, 01:05:28 PM »
Poolish 100% hydration.
Made with 12.5% of the total flour and water of my recipe.
1% idy (1% of the poolish flour weight)
2% sugar (of the poolish flour weight)
Room temp for an hour. (It doubles)
Then cold ferment for 18-22 hours. (It doubles again)

Next day, water in the spiral mixer. I used room temp water. Probably a mistake.
Flour temp is 72f+

Add the poolish to the water from the fridge.
Turn on mixer to break apart the poolish a bit. 1-2 mins. Then add salt. 2.5% of total flour weight including the poolish.

Then add Half the remaining flour till incorporated then the remaining flour till incorporated and smooth. Single speed spiral mixer. Bowl rotates 18rpm. From turning machine on with poolish till it became smooth took 18-20 mins. End result dough felt warm to the tough and was over 92f. 

Rest in the bench for 15 mins. Weighed and portions into dough boxes, cross stacked in cooler for 15 mins then sealed for 2 days.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Neapolitan dough in a spiral mixer
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2020, 03:24:37 PM »
Using your spiral mixer I really think you can just add all of the ingredients to the mixer at the same time (including the poolish) and begin mixing, this will result in better mixing action which will result in a shorter mixing time. Use cold water (at least 60F) and shoot for a finished dough temperature of 75 to 80F. Regarding the 15-minute cross-stack time, this is not nearly enough time to accomplish anything, instead allow the dough balls to remain cross stacked until the internal dough ball temperature reaches 50 or 55F (pick one), then down-stack and kiss the dough good night. Note: Be sure to lightly oil the top of the dough balls to prevent excessive drying of the dough during the cross-stack period.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline QwertyJuan

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Re: Neapolitan dough in a spiral mixer
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2020, 11:15:01 PM »
We use a large single speed spiral mixer here at work... even when making a large batch (a resulting dough "mass" of about 60lbs), we only mix for 9 minutes total. 3 minutes, add oil, then mix for 6. 18 minutes is DOUBLE that...  :o

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Offline AntonioT

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Re: Neapolitan dough in a spiral mixer
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 10:51:52 AM »
Im making a poolish today for tomorrows dough. Will be doing colder water and much less time in the mixer. Hoping that will solve all the issues. Will be paying attention to all the temperatures this time. Room, flour, poolish, and water. Is an instant read laser thermometer good enough or do I need to get one of those little probe thermometers?

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Neapolitan dough in a spiral mixer
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 01:36:50 PM »
IR thermometers are fine for all but the internal dough ball temperature measurements, for that I recommend a low cost dial/stem type thermometer. Make sure it has a hex nut under the head/dial, this is the adjustment nut that is used to calibrate the thermometer.
To calibrate, use an oral thermometer available from any pharmacy at low cost, adjust the water temperature to get a temperature reading on the oral thermometer, note the temperature, place the stem of the dial thermometer in the glass of water holding the oral thermometer, note the temperature shown on the dial, if necessary adjust the temperature so it reads the same as the oral thermometer, now you're good to go.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline AntonioT

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Re: Neapolitan dough in a spiral mixer
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 07:11:33 PM »
So my cold tap water is 65f. My room is 78f and my flour is 72.1f. Should I chill my water in the walk in before using? Thats at 41f. I feel like everything I have is too hot. LoL

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Neapolitan dough in a spiral mixer
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 08:40:41 PM »
With those conditions water stored in the walk-in over night would be a good place to start.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

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