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Author Topic: Yeast enough?  (Read 253 times)

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Offline Lukenick1

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Yeast enough?
« on: November 15, 2019, 02:01:35 PM »
Using a 50lb bag of flour..... is 1/3 of a 1lb block of yeast enough? Its colder weather and our dough isn't able to rise good at room temperature. 

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Re: Yeast enough?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2019, 11:44:30 PM »
Take a look at this predictive model/chart TxCraig put together. Many people here have had success using these figures as a starting point. At 1/3 lb yeast for 50 lbs flour you’re at 0.66% yeast. If I am reading it correctly, at a room temp of 68° your dough requires from 14 hours down to a guess of around 12 hours. That sounds long to me based on the many formulas that have been discussed here. I will be interested in seeing what people more knowledgable than myself think.


What is your time frame? The Dough Doctor is going to want to know your finished dough temp coming off the mixer.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26831.msg349349.html#msg349349
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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Yeast enough?
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 01:21:43 AM »
What is your finished dough temperature, dough formula and how are you managing the dough?
Just for the records, 1% CY is the typical CY level used in most pizza doughs.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Yael

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Re: Yeast enough?
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 02:54:48 AM »
Using a 50lb bag of flour..... is 1/3 of a 1lb block of yeast enough? Its colder weather and our dough isn't able to rise good at room temperature.

Another input:
In order to make the best healthy pizza dough, you have to ferment accordingly to your flour's strength. There are flours with a lot of gluten-forming proteins -specially American flours- and the more the gluten (strength), the longer the fermentation. So the flour will determine your fermentation length. Let's say that with a 12% protein flour it's better to make 18-24H RTF or 48/72H CF.
If you make a CF (0~4°C), the amount of yeast is not the most important because with the cold yeast is sleeping, so you can add 0.4% to 1% as Tom says, there will not be a big difference. One of the differences will be when you take the dough out of the fridge prior to baking: the more yeast you added in the dough, the faster it will wake up and be ready to bake.
If you make a RTF, as yeast is very sensitive to T° changes, the amount will be very small and can be very different from one time to another.
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Offline Lukenick1

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Re: Yeast enough?
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 10:23:52 AM »
What is your finished dough temperature, dough formula and how are you managing the dough?
Just for the records, 1% CY is the typical CY level used in most pizza doughs.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

50lb bag of HUmmer flour high gluten
12 qts water
1 cup salt
2 cups oil
3 cups sugar
1/3 block of yeast.
Sorry we are not math people and cannot understand the percentages  ???

Yesterday's dough the finished temp was 70F, started using your method of mixing by adding oil at the end (was never doing that) and once its mixed we cut it, ball it, put it into walk in cooler which is about 35-40F (state law) uncovered on sheet pans about an hour or two then cover them with plastic bags until the next day.  When ready to prepare we take the dough balls out, run them through the dough sheeter and into pizza pans.  After stretched in pans we oil them,  stack and leave at room temp until bake.  Problem is now that weather is cooler in the shop the pizzas don't rise good like they do in summer when its warm and humid.  Not sure what to do.......

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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Yeast enough?
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 12:08:57 PM »
Do you have a scale or access to a scale that can weigh in ounces? If so, portion each ingredient and weigh it. Do this three times and write down the weight each time. I'll figure the average ingredient weight for you and convert your "recipe" into a dough formula based on bakers percent. It's a LOT easier to review a dough formula than a dough "recipe". You might have a hard time figuring out the amount to leave as a tip now but in short time we'll have you working in bakers percent like a math major.  :chef:
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Lukenick1

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Re: Yeast enough?
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 12:17:52 PM »
Do you have a scale or access to a scale that can weigh in ounces? If so, portion each ingredient and weigh it. Do this three times and write down the weight each time. I'll figure the average ingredient weight for you and convert your "recipe" into a dough formula based on bakers percent. It's a LOT easier to review a dough formula than a dough "recipe". You might have a hard time figuring out the amount to leave as a tip now but in short time we'll have you working in bakers percent like a math major.  :chef:
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Yes we have an ounce scale we use it for the dough balls.  I am only weighing the sugar, yeast and salt right?  Can't imagine weighing all the 50lbs of flour and water.

Offline Yael

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Re: Yeast enough?
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 06:55:27 PM »
Yes we have an ounce scale we use it for the dough balls.  I am only weighing the sugar, yeast and salt right?  Can't imagine weighing all the 50lbs of flour and water.

Yes, you weigh everything! You are in a commercial setting, right? This is very important for your business: you have to make a regular product for your customers; and if you ended up in this forum, it means you're looking for help. Once you're used to it (and you will), it will seem so simple, so easy, that you won't even remember why you were reluctant at the first place.

Your flour is 100%, always. If you mix 2 flours (wholewheat and bread for example), the total will still be 100%.
Then all the other ingredients are defined according to the flour, here is an example:
Flour 100% - for 1kg flour: 1000g
Water 62% - for 1kg flour: 620g
Salt 2.5% - for 1kg flour: 25g
IDY 0.2% - for 1kg flour: 2g
EVO 3% - for 1kg flour: 30g

If you don't have the equipment (bigger scale for bigger weighting), I suggest you purchase it. As I said, this is the first step to make the most regular product for your customers.

Of course, all of these are suggestions, you're the only one who can decide  :)
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Offline Lukenick1

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Re: Yeast enough?
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 09:01:53 PM »
Do you have a scale or access to a scale that can weigh in ounces? If so, portion each ingredient and weigh it. Do this three times and write down the weight each time. I'll figure the average ingredient weight for you and convert your "recipe" into a dough formula based on bakers percent. It's a LOT easier to review a dough formula than a dough "recipe". You might have a hard time figuring out the amount to leave as a tip now but in short time we'll have you working in bakers percent like a math major.  :chef:
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Flour is 50lbs
Yeast is 5oz
Sugar is 17oz
Salt is 9oz
oil is 13oz
Water is 456 oz
Thanks for any help

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Yeast enough?
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 10:58:03 PM »
Here's what your dough formula looks like in bakers percent;
Flour 100% (800-ounces)
Yeast 0.625%
Sugar 2.125%
Salt 1.125%
Oil 1.625%
Water 57%

How it's done: Divide the ingredient weight by the total flour weight (800-ounces in this case) and multiply by 100.
Example: Yeast/ 5-ounces divided by 800 X 100 = 0.625 (0.625%)
Do this with the weight of each ingredient and you should get the same numbers that I got.
See, wasn't that easy?  :-D

What am I looking at here?
Yeast: Too high for IDY and too high for ADY and too low for CY. What kind of yeast are you using?
Sugar: The percentage looks OK if you're using a deck or air impingement oven.
Salt: At 1.125% the salt level is too low for optimum flavor in the finished crust and the low salt level might be working against you if you are using ADY or IDY because low salt and high yeast makes for fast, uncontrolled fermentation rate.
Oil: Typical range for oil is 1% up to 10% (more typically 2 or 3% at the high end) nso the oil is OK.
Water: The dough absorption is 57% which would indicate that you are trying to make a thin crispy or pan style pizza. Typical dough absorption for this type of pizza ranges from 56 to 63% but there can be a lot of variability in dough absorption.

Possible issues experienced with a dough formulated such as shown;
Possibility of blown dough.
Once dough is ready to open it doesn't last very long due to over fermentation.
The dough might feel sticky in the mixing bowl and during the scaling/balling process.
Finished crust lacks "something" in flavor. Some might describe the flavor as "starchy" which is common for a low salt product.
Note:
Are you measuring and recording the finished (mixed) dough temperature for each dough you make? This will have a great impact on how the dough ferments. Unless the inside temperature of your shop in varying with seasonal changes if you control the finished dough temperature you will get the same rate of fermentation all year long, and even if your shop is 10 to 15F cooler or warmer due to seasonal changes controlling the finished dough temperature will eliminate much if not all of the temperature variation. Lastly, you are making doughs based on 50# of flour weight which means you are scaling and balling upwards of 83# of dough at a time. You must be able to get the entire dough processed (scaled, balled, boxed or bagged, and in the cooler) within 20-minutes. Are you achieving this? If not you are introducing a level of variability that most pizzerias find unacceptable.
We can work with you to address these issues.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

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Offline Lukenick1

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Re: Yeast enough?
« Reply #10 on: Today at 09:51:48 AM »
HI again....
THanks for helping with that.  We are using a 1 pound block of yeast which I assume CY is "cake yeast"?  It's kept refrigerated.  Is this type of yeast more difficult and sensitive?  We wouldn't mind using ADY yeast but would not know how much to add?  Does ADY yeast need to be "activated" that is what it says on the package, or could we add it in with all other ingredients like you do with the IDY?.  We would be happiest using the easiest fool proof yeast. 

We do make pan pizza.  Greek style ;) We also use a 25 year old Blodgette conveyor oven.  Still play with temps because one of our blower motors is on the fritz.  Just replaced 2 others. We know we need an upgraded oven but we just can't make the investment at this moment. This one still good for now.
Been in business for 25 years and still can't get it right ha ha.  However we get great reviews despite the dough inconsistency but I am the picky one and always critique my husbands recipe.  I agree with the salt being too low.  He was using about 4 cups of sugar and the dough was too sweet but he likes the way it browns. 

What is the purpose of oiling the shells once stretched in the pan?  That adds another 30 minutes of time in the preparation. 

He scales balls and get them in the fridge fairly quickly but I have never timed it.  The dough is never sticky when it comes out of the mixer as a matter of fact I think its more stiff.  My arms get tired balling them.  For some reason he used to let the dough rise in the mixing bowl then cut, ball and put in the fridge.  That is how he was taught years ago but no longer does that.

He does 10oz for a 10" , 18oz for a 14", and 23oz for a 16"pizza.  Is this part of the problem?  Too much dough in the pan?

We have only measure the temperature of the dough just the other day but will start now regularly.   What temp is ideal? 
@The Dough Doctor
« Last Edit: Today at 10:28:57 AM by Lukenick1 »

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Yeast enough?
« Reply #11 on: Today at 11:20:13 AM »
I don't understand your question about oiling the shells? Are you making par-baked shells too? Need more details on that one in order to answer.
The dough weights you are showing for the different size pizzas (are they all for the same type of pizza?) are all over the board weight wise for the sizes. Of the three sizes (10, 14 and 16-inch) and the weights shown for each 10, 18 and 23-ounces) which diameter and dough weight represents your best pizza? With this information I can calculate the dough weights for each of the other sizes.
To give you the desired dough temperature for YOUR dough I first need to see your entire dough management process, beginning to end, complete with all times and temperatures.
In view of your circumstances, I suggest that you please give me a call so that we can discuss some of this over the phone.
Please feel free to call me at 785-537-1037 (please e-mail me with date and time at <[email protected]> we are in the central time zone).
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Lukenick1

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Re: Yeast enough?
« Reply #12 on: Today at 11:31:46 AM »
I don't understand your question about oiling the shells? Are you making par-baked shells too? Need more details on that one in order to answer.
The dough weights you are showing for the different size pizzas (are they all for the same type of pizza?) are all over the board weight wise for the sizes. Of the three sizes (10, 14 and 16-inch) and the weights shown for each 10, 18 and 23-ounces) which diameter and dough weight represents your best pizza? With this information I can calculate the dough weights for each of the other sizes.
To give you the desired dough temperature for YOUR dough I first need to see your entire dough management process, beginning to end, complete with all times and temperatures.
In view of your circumstances, I suggest that you please give me a call so that we can discuss some of this over the phone.
Please feel free to call me at 785-537-1037 (please e-mail me with date and time at <[email protected]> we are in the central time zone).
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

I read on here somewhere to lightly oil the pizza dough after its opened in the pan to keep it from getting soggy when toppings produce water during baking.  Is that true?  HOnestly my husband hates doing it, it adds so much more time to his preparation.

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