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Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #200 on: December 28, 2016, 02:38:16 PM »
I sure remember those bubbles..even though my first pies were in NJ, not NYC. Also the crust flavor was something different than I've ever tasted since. I know I've told the story about going to dinner with my brother 4 or 5 years ago at a little pizza place in the town we grew up in. He'd been before, but it was my first time


 The Italian bar/restauarnt/pizzeria we cut our pizza teeth on back in the 60's, Primo's,   had been closed (actually, burned down) for decades..just a memory.  But when the pizza came to the table that night, he told me to try a slice first. One bite and I started laughing. Primo's, I said, naming our boyhood pizza shop. Yes, he said, Yes, exactly. This shop had purchased Primo's recipes many years before and still make them today. It was very cool.   Even now, I'm not quite sure what's different about these pies...and I must admit I haven't had any since I've become a pizza extremist...but I bet if Peter or Tom tasted it, they'd know right away. Wanna do a road trip, guys?  Lake Hiawatha, NJ is lovely in January  :-D

Bill,

Your Primo's Pizzeria sounds a lot like Zangari's in Lancaster used to be 25-30 years ago.  Zangari's pizza used to be the “King of pizza" in Lancaster.  A little more about that old school pizza, which is now Alley Kat.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g52970-d3826924-r188596898-Alley_Kat-Lancaster_Lancaster_County_Pennsylvania.html 

And https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g52970-d3826924-Reviews-Alley_Kat-Lancaster_Lancaster_County_Pennsylvania.html#photos;geo=52970&detail=3826924&ff=177248919&albumViewMode=hero&albumid=103&baseMediaId=177248919&thumbnailMinWidth=50&cnt=30&offset=-1&filter=2

A lady spoke to me the other week at market and told me Alley Kat still uses the original Zangari's recipe.  She said she is friends with the lady that makes all of the dough for Alley Kat.  That lady purchased the recipes from the Zangari's.  I might have to go and talk to her someday.  For some reason I never tried Zangari's pizza in Lancaster when they had many shops. 

Norma

Offline HarryHaller73

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #201 on: December 28, 2016, 04:13:40 PM »
I asked John Arena these questions:

I wanted to ask you a question about when your family make pizzas in NYC and what you recall about them. I mean did they have flat and little rims, and was the taste of the crust not as good as NY pizzas they have today? The reason I am asking is Madeline has commented on Walter's photos and said they look like what Madeline's father taught people how to make. Walter's rim crusts are more puffy and there is a really good taste to his crusts. Madeline said that is how she remembers pizzas her dad use to help pizzerias make. I saw that photo of Vinnie Mastro and the really small electric pizza ovens that the Mastro family invented, and those rim crusts do look somewhat like Walter's. If what Madeline recalls is true, then how did NYC pizzas start to have the smaller rim crusts that are rather dense? Was that because of short time doughs and lack of refrigeration? I don't know if you can understand what I am trying to explain. I am just curious about what NY pizza looked like a long time ago, and what some of them still look like today.

This is what John answered:

Mastro taught to make the pizza with a pronounced edge Never flat. The edge should not be dense or compressed Mastro sold frozen dough but it was very good .Most places did quick ferment.  Dough was made in morning and left out all day. Remainder was saved for next day but refrigeration and space was limited.  Pizzas were cooked much darker and because of quick ferment they bubbled a lot. People loved the burnt bubbles and fought over the bubble slices!! Walters pies look great but are more modern . Lighter bake and very round. I think the modern dough is better.  More complex.  Keep in mind that the lighter bake also became popular because pizza by the slice started to dominate and typically those pies are undercooked so they don't dry out and can stand up to reheating.

Norma

I never met people fighting for bubbles.  Bubbles were frowned upon especially if they were large and in the middle of the pie.  A good pizzamaker knew how to slap out co2 gas in any condition dough.  He seems to know alot of tricks like undercooking them to keep pies from going bad while sitting on a counter for a long time, unsold.  Maybe he comes from that heritage.  He sure projects his own personal opinions well to generalize an entire industry.

« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 04:58:08 PM by HarryHaller73 »

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #202 on: December 29, 2016, 10:51:13 AM »
That's pretty cool, Norma...Too bad there are no Time Machines..yet,  LOL)   We could do a Primo's/Zangari crawl and see/taste what we're missing  :)


HH, never met anyone fighting for bubbles? Well, you never met and and my  brother, LOL. As I recall, those bubbles weren't  charred..just raised. Pretty sure there were no slices at Primo's, just whole pies. Though being 12 or so, I never sat at the bar, so not sure  if they served slices there.


Kinda need a Primo's slice right now! But if I can hold out for the rest of the day, the plan, weather cooperating, is a  Trenton (pronounced Treh-uhn) tomato pie at Papa's tonight.

Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #203 on: December 29, 2016, 11:21:19 AM »
That's pretty cool, Norma...Too bad there are no Time Machines..yet,  LOL)   We could do a Primo's/Zangari crawl and see/taste what we're missing  :)


HH, never met anyone fighting for bubbles? Well, you never met and and my  brother, LOL. As I recall, those bubbles weren't  charred..just raised. Pretty sure there were no slices at Primo's, just whole pies. Though being 12 or so, I never sat at the bar, so not sure  if they served slices there.


Kinda need a Primo's slice right now! But if I can hold out for the rest of the day, the plan, weather cooperating, is a  Trenton (pronounced Treh-uhn) tomato pie at Papa's tonight.

Bill,

Lol, I agree too bad there are no Time Machines yet.  I did go to Alley Kat/with Zangari's recipe a long while ago at Reply 9 https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9803.msg85411#msg85411   

And the deal they have at Alley Kat.

https://www.facebook.com/Alleykatbar/photos/a.375309269204961.83034.373855646016990/1152226258179921/?type=3&theater

Some of those little bubbles can be seen.   

Cool about you and your brother fighting for bubbles.  A lot of my customers like bubbles too.  For me they come if my doughs are too cold, or not fermented enough. 

Your Primo's sound great!  If you go to Papa's make sure they don't burn the bottom crust of your pizza, unless you like a really charred bottom crust.  I don't like a lot of charring on the bottom crust.  Trenton Bill and I should have sent that pizza back, but other customers didn't have that dark of a bottom crust.  My posts starts at Reply 19 about Papa's https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=25251.msg255118#msg255118   

Have fun if you go to Papa's tonight!  ;D

Norma

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #204 on: December 29, 2016, 10:32:23 PM »
Thanks Norma.. We made it there and it was plenty busy. The vibe was very friendly and family-oriented...and the place was packed,


Great friendly server too.


The pizza? We had a half-sausage half plain. Sausage pretty good, nothing special. Same for cheese and sauce. The crust seemed to be same day and had a complete absence of flavor to me. The  crust  were nice and thin,   definitely not burned. All in all, okay, but won;'t be back. DeLo's tomato pies wins by a mile

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #205 on: December 29, 2016, 11:29:20 PM »
Pie looks good though, guess the old saying is true, you can't judge a pizza by its cover.

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #206 on: December 30, 2016, 09:07:51 AM »
It does, really...but, alas. Even tried a reheat this morning..main flavor salt. Crust: none. A shame, because the portions are big, LOL


Of course, I was probably the only one there not loving the pie...Making our own  and working with the amazing pizza makers here sets a bar that very few places can even approach. Sure doesn't hurt their bottom line, though. A very homelike place...the main featured item on house salad was pickled beets...like going to grandma's  :)


Tell Granny I won't be back soon  :( >:D :-D
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 09:11:08 AM by Jersey Pie Boy »

Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #207 on: December 30, 2016, 09:17:18 AM »
Thanks Norma.. We made it there and it was plenty busy. The vibe was very friendly and family-oriented...and the place was packed,


Great friendly server too.


The pizza? We had a half-sausage half plain. Sausage pretty good, nothing special. Same for cheese and sauce. The crust seemed to be same day and had a complete absence of flavor to me. The  crust  were nice and thin,   definitely not burned. All in all, okay, but won;'t be back. DeLo's tomato pies wins by a mile

Bill,

I had about the same experiences as you did at Papa's, except our pie had the kind of char we didn't like.  I was happy to go to the old Papa's, and Trenton Bill and I were expecting a better pizza.  Everyone was nice at Papa's.

Agree about De Lorenzo's, but Bill said the old De Lorenzo's was better. 


Norma

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #208 on: December 30, 2016, 09:43:00 AM »
Ah, wish I'd been to the old DeLo's...alas, all gone.

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Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #210 on: February 26, 2017, 06:55:54 AM »
I was talking to Madeline Mastro Ferrentino through PM's on facebook yesterday.  I asked Madeline different questions that weren't asked before.  Some of the questions were about what kind of tomato sauce was used on NY pizzas, basil and what brand of cheese was used.

Madeline said she really should start writing a book about what she knows about NY pizza for the memory of her mother, dad and brother.  Madeline said I could share what she recalls.  I don't know of any other person that can recall all that Madeline does about NY pizza.  Since Madeline worked with her mother and dad since the beginning of NY pizza that sure would make her information a lot more valuable then what can be read somewhere else.  At least that is my opinion.

This is what Madeline said, but not without the questions and comments from me.

Basil was always cooked in the tomato sauce that they used. Tomato sauce was usually cooked ahead of time, a quick sauce, they didn't use tomato sauce out of a can. The cheese pizza topping was tomato sauce , a drizzle of olive oil, mozzarella cheese, dash of Romano cheese and oregano. When it came out of the oven, it was dressed with another drizzle of olive oil, before serving. Usually there was more Romano cheese at the table for anyone who wanted more. In the early fifties when I visited Brooklyn and went to my cousin's restaurant, he said they didn't dress it with olive oil any more because the mozzarella had more fat content in it. Never clarified this with my dad.

You know we supplied the ingredients for the dough as well. I don't remember the supplier but Grande does not ring a bell with me at all.

The mob was not involved with pizza at all in the 30's or forties. In the thirties they had a protection racket going on where they would target individual businesses to pay them for "protection" so that nothing bad would happen to their businesses. Thomas Dewey was the one who cleared up that racket as our district attorney. My uncle who owned an ice and coal business was one of their targets. I really don't think the mob was involved in pizza until the late fifties and early 1960's, when it became apparent that the industry was flourishing.

N.Y. style pizza was christened "Neapolitan" because it is a thin crust pizza. Sicilian was thicker. Traditional Neapolitans were supposed to have made the thin crust pie.

Polly-o certainly proceeded Grande. It was a brand I remember from way back when. New York pizza started before Chicago pizza. It took a while before they had the popularity of pizza in NY.  During WWII, my dad went to Detroit and Chicago to speak to customers. By then, NYC had many Italian restaurants that made pizza with our ovens. Bari had the connection to the mobs and didn't come until the 1950's when I was in Missouri and they moved into the center of our stores.

It has to be realized that pizza as shop that only baked pizza and had an oven and the equipment didn't come about until the early fifties. Before then, pizza always accompanied a restaurant and bar. Originally it was something that had to be added to a menu.  In the beginning my Dad had success with his bar trade because they took the chance to add it to their menu, because people were still going to bars during the depression but couldn't afford restaurants.

I really should start writing about what I know about pizza. So all this misinformation that's out there does not become part of history. People were able to go to bars with a pail to buy beer, as they did with milk. In the beginning pizza was considered to be an accompaniment to beer. My dad got so many Italian restaurants to get a beer and wine license, all as part of his service.

My mother and dad were such good people, if there is a heaven they deserve to be there. God gave them the strength to sacrifice so much of their young lives to help people while helping themselves. They were both well rounded and creative people and had so many other interests that they would have loved to pursue; fortunately they took great joy in their customers success and their fellow business associates.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #211 on: February 26, 2017, 07:04:42 AM »
I have been trying to figure out why there isn't a lot of information about pizza back when the deck ovens were first invented for NY pizzas.  It seems the NY Times and other news mentions weren't plentiful since NY pizzas were not going strong back in the 40's.  These are some more articles found.  Wish older photos of NY pizza could be found somewhere, but not much of any luck so far in finding photos of NY pizza back in the 1940's. 

https://www.6sqft.com/71-years-ago-the-new-york-times-introduced-pizza-to-the-city/

https://sites.google.com/site/newyorkcityapril1946/in-progress/restaurants/italian-restaurants/pizza 

This next article referenced by Scott W. defines pepperoni as hot peppers.  A “red hot” combination.   >:D

http://alanatlunch.blogspot.com/2015/04/how-old-is-that-pizza.html

http://blog.scottspizzatours.com/post/18130417527/first-reference-to-pizza-as-pie

In this article I find the reference to “muscat” tomato interesting.

http://enrychan.tumblr.com/post/117623313881/kateoplis-1944-the-nytimes-discovers-pizza

Norma

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #212 on: February 26, 2017, 09:01:34 AM »
Very interesting fuel for the fire, Norma!
Thank you.

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #213 on: February 26, 2017, 11:26:30 AM »
Thanks Norma for sharing this info.  Madeline is a national pizza treasure.  She confirms what my mother (90 years old  born in Italy and raised in NJ as a child) remembers of pizza.  The Mastro's are the root of NY pizza and if people refuse to listen to her it is just the sign of the times as people now create lies and call them "alternative"  facts........  I was lucky to learn from my mothers  family and some old guys that were around in the early days of NY style pizza and my pies are based on that and my own twist of sorts.  The new NY pizzas are not the pies I grew up with.  I feel honored that Madeline and my mother both say my pies remind them of the ones they grew up with in the early days of pizza.  We have a dozen or so over 70 customers from NY/NJ and they also say my pies are like the ones they grew up on.   One of our customers is a family who owned a NY Italian restaurant decades ago and they loved Madeline's story in PMQ that I shared with them. The mother who is in her 90's said pizza today in NYC is not what is was and they are contacting the UCLA film school to see if they will do a documentary on the Mastro story.  They come in once a week and hug Judy and I saying we are doing pizza like they remember growing up with.   They came in with an attitude that if we didn't deliver they would definitely let us know.  Now they share their old Italian recipes that came to America with them and the mother is making  her Zeppole's for us on their next visit.  The daughter who is in her 70's even offered to help us if we needed it.  All our old transplant NY/NJ customers are like this.  They are proud of the pizza they grew up with and are hurt to see what it has degenerated to.  I respect this and love seeing them come in with an angry attitude of "this will probably be another crap pizza place using the NY name to draw innocent people in who know no better" and seeing them smile and return each week for pies that remind them of their youth.

I give up arguing on this "definitive NY pizza" farce as most citing what is the gospel were not even born or have no direct family connections to the early days.   Norma and I have documented the originators and greatest NY pizza family and that is a fact.  The internet lets anyone declare themselves an expert and I am not going to argue anymore.   We have done our job of documenting the Mastro's for generations to come. People dig our pizza and it reminds me of the best pies I grew up with and that is all that really matters to me.  Walter
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 12:19:27 PM by waltertore »
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Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #214 on: February 26, 2017, 11:37:18 AM »
Thanks Norma for sharing this info.  Madeline is a national pizza treasure.  She confirms what my mother (90 years old  born in Italy and raised in NJ as a child) remembers of pizza.  I was lucky to learn from  her family and some old guys that were around in the early days of NY style pizza and my pies are based on that.  The new NY pizzas are not the pies I grew up with.  I feel honored that Madeline and my mother both say my pies remind them of the ones they grew up with in the early days of pizza.  We have a dozen or so over 70 customers from NY/NJ and they also say my pies are like the ones they grew up on.   One of our customers is a family who owned a NY Italian restaurant decades ago and they loved Madeline's story in PMQ that I shared with them. The mother who is in her 90's said pizza today in NYC is not what is was and they are contacting the UCLA film school to see if they will do a documentary on the Mastro story.  They come in once a week and hug Judy and I saying we are doing pizza like they remember growing up with.   I give up arguing on this "definitive NY pizza" farce as most citing what is the gospel were not even born or have no direct family connections to the early days.   Norma and I have documented the originators and greatest NY pizza family and that is a fact.  The internet lets anyone declare themselves an expert and I am not going to argue anymore.   We have done our job of documenting the Mastro's for generations to come. People dig our pizza and it reminds me of the best pies I grew up with and that is all that really matters for us.  Walter

Hi Walter,
Could you expand on what is missing or has changed in NY pizza today?
I read this comment often about NY pizza being different now, so I'm curious what happened? It seems like some stuff is still consistent with past decades - same day straight dough baked in a deck oven, low moisture mozzarella (Grande) etc.


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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #215 on: February 26, 2017, 11:58:39 AM »
Hi Walter,
Could you expand on what is missing or has changed in NY pizza today?
I read this comment often about NY pizza being different now, so I'm curious what happened? It seems like some stuff is still consistent with past decades - same day straight dough baked in a deck oven, low moisture mozzarella (Grande) etc.

I have been gone from the NY/NJ scene for near 37 years.  When I go home to visit I see less and less of the old shops still there and the ones that are still open often no longer have family running them- the day to day pie making proccess. They are hiring off the street and these people become the teachers.  They don't have the background that once was the norm for pies back home and things get dumbed down more and more.  Many shops are purchased and opened by people that don't even know  how to make pizza.  I left in the 70's and even then pizza was declining IMO due to my generation going to college via our immigrant parents hard work and we didn't want to work in the shops.  The shops I grew up in were family run with skilled people making the pies.  The old taught the young as was the norm for generations.  Now that is just about dead. Sadly we are one of the last of the true mom/pop shops where we are on site all open hours and make everything and have a background in old school pizza. 

I wish there were dozens of pizzerias I could eat at within a short drive like I remember as a kid but that is not here today.  We are getting a lot of positive press on our pies for only being open a year. In my youth we would not have had a word written on us as it would just be another pizzeria opening.  We just had a west coast food critic cite us as the best NY pie in Reno and possibly on the west coast.  That is sad to me in that there is such thin pickings that a brand new place can garner such attention.The balance of a pizza is something one can not learn on a video.  One has to be immersed in the culture.  I was probably conceived on a Sinatra record playing and a pizza  :-D.  The taste from the balance of ingredients and using the ones that work together/mixing them in right amounts is what is being lost IMO. This and how one raises the dough to peak fermentation/develops it to balance with the ingredients are fine tuned nuances that really make a big difference in the final product that is lacking today in so many places. Look at all the attention Norma has gotten.  She puts that extra mojo on her pies and that kicks them into greatness.   I say -forget what others say/think.  Instead make the pizza that you love to eat.   Let your taste buds guide you.  Forget what is written or held as sacred by people today that have no direct link to the origins of pizza.  Let the generations of pizza flow through your soul and that will always guide your pizza be the best pizza.  I know this is way out stuff but the souls are out there and they will work through you.  That is how pizza was taught in my experience. Walter
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 12:07:46 PM by waltertore »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #216 on: February 26, 2017, 12:46:02 PM »
Thanks Norma for sharing this info.  Madeline is a national pizza treasure.  She confirms what my mother (90 years old  born in Italy and raised in NJ as a child) remembers of pizza.  The Mastro's are the root of NY pizza and if people refuse to listen to her it is just the sign of the times as people now create lies and call them "alternative"  facts........  I was lucky to learn from my mothers  family and some old guys that were around in the early days of NY style pizza and my pies are based on that and my own twist of sorts.  The new NY pizzas are not the pies I grew up with.  I feel honored that Madeline and my mother both say my pies remind them of the ones they grew up with in the early days of pizza.  We have a dozen or so over 70 customers from NY/NJ and they also say my pies are like the ones they grew up on.   One of our customers is a family who owned a NY Italian restaurant decades ago and they loved Madeline's story in PMQ that I shared with them. The mother who is in her 90's said pizza today in NYC is not what is was and they are contacting the UCLA film school to see if they will do a documentary on the Mastro story.  They come in once a week and hug Judy and I saying we are doing pizza like they remember growing up with.   They came in with an attitude that if we didn't deliver they would definitely let us know.  Now they share their old Italian recipes that came to America with them and the mother is making  her Zeppole's for us on their next visit.  The daughter who is in her 70's even offered to help us if we needed it.  All our old transplant NY/NJ customers are like this.  They are proud of the pizza they grew up with and are hurt to see what it has degenerated to.  I respect this and love seeing them come in with an angry attitude of "this will probably be another crap pizza place using the NY name to draw innocent people in who know no better" and seeing them smile and return each week for pies that remind them of their youth.

I give up arguing on this "definitive NY pizza" farce as most citing what is the gospel were not even born or have no direct family connections to the early days.   Norma and I have documented the originators and greatest NY pizza family and that is a fact.  The internet lets anyone declare themselves an expert and I am not going to argue anymore.   We have done our job of documenting the Mastro's for generations to come. People dig our pizza and it reminds me of the best pies I grew up with and that is all that really matters to me.  Walter

Walter,

I agree with what you have posted.  I know Madeline has said your pies remind her of pies that were made years ago.  Hopefully someone will do a documentary on the Mastro story or Madeline will write a book.  Madeline told me more today.

This is what she said:

Norma: This restaurant had to have been our customer because they used a box. My Dad was the one that finally got a manufacturer to make the boxes for him. This is the year I went to college and in NYC Prior to that we sold the white Kraft paper and string for takeout. We had so many restaurants called Luigi's or Luigino's .

If it was a coal fired oven, probably was a very large place and had the built in wall ovens used in bakeries. Would have been great to see, but would have had to get the pizza boxes from us, we were the only place selling them at that time. We had the room to inventory them and deliver. They were manufactured for us, though we were selling them to other dealers as well. could have gotten them for a smaller dealer. The last sentence should have read "could have gotten them from a smaller dealer" that we sold to uptown.

The pizza boxes were white, as was the white kraft paper. It took so much longer for them to wrap the pizza and tie it with string, also cheese would stick to the paper. It was amazing to see how fast some of the people got to wrap the pizza in paper. You have to remember there use to be a lot of people waiting on line to get pizza in the early times, use to hold up the rest of the business and people would get impatient.

All of the pizza equipment was initiated by my dad. He used to have a lot of fabrication done by people on the Bowery. Bari was one who used to fabricate his cheese graters. I have a contract (I hope, still) in which Bari was given the dies to make the grater and they were to be returned to us. My father didn't have an easy time getting things manufactured for us by the manufacturing companies. I think he finally got the pizza boxes made for us by the intervention of the Schrier paper company that was a huge distributor of all paper products but I don't remember the manufacturer.


Norma



Offline norma427

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #217 on: Yesterday at 11:27:21 PM »
I was trying to search to when Ira Nevin might have invented the first deck oven for pizzas.  At the Baker's Pride website it says Bakers Pride was founded in New York in the mid 1940's, and then initiated the inventing of the modern production pizza oven.  I will copy and paste what else was said.

Prior to our invention of a factory built, gas-fired ceramic deck transportable pizza oven, pizza was produced in massive, coal-fired, hand built brick ovens by a small number of culinary artists catering to a limited number of pizza connoisseurs.

http://www.bakerspride.com/about.asp 

Seems like that would have been after Frank Mastro invented the first gas deck oven for pizzas.

Another article about when Ira Nevin invented the first deck oven.

Ah, but something was missing. Ex-GIs who had served in Italy told their former brothers-in-arms of what would in time be called the “greatest generation” about the gastronomic delights of a baked pie with a shallow bread-like crust covered with seasoned tomato sauce, cheese, and a variety of other toppings they’d sampled in Italy.
One of the mustered-out soldiers, Ira Nevin, returned to his home in New Rochelle, a New York City suburb, after serving in Naples and experiencing the culinary joys of Italian pizza. Nevin was unique in that his father owned and operated a business — Bakers Pride — which built and repaired brick ovens. Nevin, who went to college under the G.I. Bill, writing his thesis in engineering school on oven construction, was approached one day by an Italian-American baker whose gas appliance couldn’t attain the higher temperatures needed for pizza. Whereupon Nevin — who fully appreciated pizza’s potential in America as word spread, fueled by former servicemen — built the first gas-fired, high-temperature ceramic-deck pizza oven, allowing prospective pizzeria owners to make their tomato pies quickly, cheaply and efficiently.
In the 1950s, independently owned pizza stores spread like melted cheese across the United States. The owners — mostly Italians or Greeks — usually made their own mozzarella cheese or else bought it locally. Tomato sauce came from fresh tomatoes or maybe canned tomatoes during winter seasons. Dough was made in-house, along with pizza toppings.
These early pizzas were thin-crusted, casalinga, or home style. Pizza represented cheap, honest homemade food that brought people together. Some observers called pizza the “ultimate populist, minimalist food,” because of its broad appeal across ethnic and socioeconomic groups.


http://www.itemonline.com/opinion/orkand-a-slice-of-history-pizza-in-america/article_177fdbdb-aa47-508b-bac4-e0fe16c4cee7.html
 
Norma

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Re: Evolution of the NY Style Pizza (Split Topic)
« Reply #218 on: Today at 04:53:16 AM »
Pie looks good though, guess the old saying is true, you can't judge a pizza by its cover.



The balance of a pizza is something one can not learn on a video.  One has to be immersed in the culture.


These are things people don't get about NY pies. It's the balance.  The family run places got it.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


 

A D V E R T I S E M E N T