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Author Topic: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven  (Read 14735 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2011, 12:07:45 PM »
ARgggh!   

Lost everything I posted cuz my photo files crashed it.  Photo file standards seem very inconsistent here, and I have no idea why.

Guess i have to start again...phooey!

Annoying as heck isn't it. Unless I'm only typing a couple sentences, I type into MSWord and copy over to here - that way if it pukes on me, I don't have to retype it.

Great looking pies as always!

CL
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Offline texmex

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2011, 01:08:09 PM »
Annoying as heck isn't it. Unless I'm only typing a couple sentences, I type into MSWord and copy over to here - that way if it pukes on me, I don't have to retype it.

Great looking pies as always!

CL

Well Craig, It never happened to me before, but I should know to never trust any html text box in any forum I type information in.  Loss of posts has happened too often all over the internet and I just otter know better.  ;)

So what do you think of this higher hydration 20% unfed starter dough?  How is it possible that not babying this dough in any way could create such good results?  I'm really surprised that I have met with so few failures in the pies I've made, especially when my methods are not very traditional from what I've read.  Here I thought it was important to get the starter domed first, then take a very small amount of that and create a preferment, then mix with part of the flour and water and definitely not the salt, then add the other stuff after autolyse, blah, blah, blah.  I just tossed it all in at once and was extremely happy with the results.

blah, blah, blah...that wasn't very nice,  :-[  and I'm half-joshin' y'all,
 but I am flummoxed by this greatly unexpected outcome.
Reesa

Offline texmex

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2013, 03:30:32 PM »
So much time has passed since my last experiments.  I had some health problems to deal with (stupid cancer), but I'm gonna try to make some Mini pizzas in my mini black egg tomorrow.  Since this was my last stepping off spot, I'm going to try a toss it together starter dough and hope for the best.

BTW, my neglected starter has been in the back of my fridge for 2 years and it was a fairly solid mass which had a slightly pleasant aroma-but an awful grey color. I tossed it out and made a new batch using some dried starter I had stored in my freezer. So glad I had the foresight to save me some dried starter. :) 

Looking forward to getting back into the swing of pizza making bliss.

I created 2 batches of preferment Saturday night and started mixing 2 batches of dough at 6am Sunday morning. I used a 20% preferment calculation for this dough to create a total of 30 balls @ 200 grams each, which I plan to try in my mini black egg (at lower temps) today around 2pm. Have not cranked up that beast for a few years, so I may have to switch this to an oven bake or even try the bbq grill.  ;D 

I created this "quick dough" after reading up on use of yeast with preferment because I forgot to give myself enough time to prepare for a long cold ferment and a pizza party is happening.

Here's the formula:

Flour (100%):    1717.69 g  |  60.59 oz | 3.79 lbs
Water (70%):    1202.38 g  |  42.41 oz | 2.65 lbs
Salt (2%):    34.35 g | 1.21 oz | 0.08 lbs | 7.16 tsp | 2.39 tbsp
IDY (.4%):    6.87 g | 0.24 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.28 tsp | 0.76 tbsp
Oil (2%):    34.35 g | 1.21 oz | 0.08 lbs | 7.63 tsp | 2.54 tbsp
Sugar (2%):    34.35 g | 1.21 oz | 0.08 lbs | 8.62 tsp | 2.87 tbsp
Total (176.4%):   3030 g | 106.88 oz | 6.68 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:   202 g | 7.13 oz | 0.45 lbs

Preferment:
Flour:    303 g | 10.69 oz | 0.67 lbs
Water:    303 g | 10.69 oz | 0.67 lbs
Total:    606 g | 21.38 oz | 1.34 lbs

Final Dough:
Flour:    1414.69 g | 49.9 oz | 3.12 lbs
Water:    899.38 g | 31.72 oz | 1.98 lbs
Salt:    34.35 g | 1.21 oz | 0.08 lbs | 7.16 tsp | 2.39 tbsp
IDY:    6.87 g | 0.24 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.28 tsp | 0.76 tbsp
Preferment:    606 g | 21.38 oz | 1.34 lbs
Oil:    34.35 g | 1.21 oz | 0.08 lbs | 7.63 tsp | 2.54 tbsp
Sugar:    34.35 g | 1.21 oz | 0.08 lbs | 8.62 tsp | 2.87 tbsp
Total:    3030 g | 106.88 oz | 6.68 lbs  | TF = N/A

The first batch had molasses as the sugar and had ADY with warm water.

The second batch had pure maple syrup and IDY with warm water.

Both batches were stirred with a spoon and hand mixed into shaggy dough just until flour was incorporated. Rested at room temp approximately 30 minutes and folded, then another 30 minutes and folded. 30 minutes more and I balled the bulk blob of dough until it was silky with tension and split into 15 200 gram balls which I placed in fridge. The same method was used with second batch as well.  At this point the dough is springy enough to think it will make excellent pizza.  Maybe I used too much yeast?  I'll post more later with pics.


« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 11:01:17 AM by texmex »
Reesa

Offline texmex

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2015, 01:03:45 PM »
I'm going to continue posting here in the what did I make this time theme which runs my life.  I knew I had made great pizza in my home oven using high hydration and no yeast, so I will continue experimenting, with that now that I think I deciphered my old notes.
The last batch of dough I made did have 0.25% ADY with 12% SD and 62% hydration  (2% each oil, salt, sugar).  I started around 8 am, hand mixed and did 5 folds over a roughly 3 hour RT timeframe then put the bulk dough in the fridge overnite.  Next morning I balled the dough @255 g each put each in plastic bags then stuck them all in the freezer.  Yesterday I took out 2 balls at 10:30 and let them thaw in my cool kitchen for 5 hours. 

There did not appear to be enough development, so I was a little worried and I turned on the oven light stuck both balls in very close to the oven light for 1.5 hours.  When I took the balls out to heat up the oven I reballed 1 and let the other alone.  The unballed skin was very easy to open, but the thickness was uneven, and had I not placed the skin on the cornfloured board, I would have re-balled it.  That pie was cooked on stone at 550 for 9 mins, and was a good pizza, but it really tasted kinda flat, almost as if I had forgot the salt.  The re-balled pie was nearly impossible to believe....flavor was exceptional, and the crust had that eggshell exterior with soft interior.  I baked it for 9 mins as well, but the bottom was not nearly as dark as the 1st pie.

 I currently have 6 more balls of this formula in my freezer, and will post further as the bakes happen.  Wish we hadn't scarfed down that 1st pie so quickly before I could get a picture , since I don't really want to bake another pie that isn't re-balled, just for comparisons sake. :-D.  Here's a pic of that 2nd pie.
Reesa

Offline texmex

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I made a butternut beet pesto
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2015, 01:25:15 PM »
Any suggestions for what to top this pesto with?  I wanna make it the sauce for my next pie, but somehow pepperoni sounds totally wrong.

It's got fire roasted butternut squash,  golden beets and red bell pepper, with fresh garlic, parm, evoo, salt and a splash of balsamic. I used almonds instead of pinyon nuts since my pinyons are still in the shell.

Slightly sweet and very smoky, garlicky flavor.  Just a tiny taste has me salivating like crazy.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 01:29:59 PM by texmex »
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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2015, 03:04:41 PM »
Dried cranberries, bacon or prosciutto, soppressata, some caramelized onions and/or roasted garlic, a nice brie or cambazola or gorganzola some caramelzed apple slices deglazed with a little brandy. Pears done the same way would play well in there too. Just a little mozz, prov, and parm to top. Maybe a sprinkling of fresh  rosemary or the like in there at the end. You get the idea though, some sweet and savory play would be the thing for the squash theme. My thoughts anyway....

jon
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

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Offline texmex

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2015, 03:22:37 PM »
Jon!  Lol...I just finished frying up some bacon, chopped a handful of craisins and sliced the onions. :-D  I was totally wishing I had a pear here, and was eyeing the grapefruit.  I have feta, and might use  a little pepperjack.  Wait, does that have jalapeños in it?  :-D  I'm going to carmelize the onions, thanks for reminding me to do so.  I'm in process of lamination AGAIN!  I just might crack me open a few pinyon nuts too.   Guess I was on the right track.
Reesa

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2015, 03:28:59 PM »
Too funny :-D Grapefruit I don't know. Besides being one of THE few things on my kryptonite list, I think it would clash. Apple, pear, ever some rehydrated dried fruit like peaches might go well too

jon
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

If you don't think you're getting what you should out of life.....maybe you're getting what you deserve       -the Root Beer Lady

Offline texmex

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2015, 03:42:14 PM »
Too funny :-D Grapefruit I don't know. Besides being one of THE few things on my kryptonite list, I think it would clash. Apple, pear, ever some rehydrated dried fruit like peaches might go well too

jon

Believe me, I have been thinking about mandarins or grapefruit on pizza for awhile now! I started thinking about the dehydrated limes I used in my waffle batt the other day, and DOH!  I have dried grapefruit too.  Yes, of course I do.  It's something you either love or hate....i'm gonna try a little. LOL
Reesa

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2015, 03:58:09 PM »
Curious to hear the results!
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

If you don't think you're getting what you should out of life.....maybe you're getting what you deserve       -the Root Beer Lady

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Offline texmex

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2015, 08:20:16 PM »
Whoa! I mean, my mouth is like....whoa!  I didn't use enough of the pesto puree, so I added some after the bake but dayum!

First off, the re-lamination of my too slack dough.  (I've got 4 more still in the freezer to re-examine...damn hard work)  I was able to replicate my first lamintion effort with that super crunch, though, which is truly surprising since this dough has been through the wringer. Actually I wish I  had a wringer to help me laminate. :-D

I made my hubby's prerequisite pep and japs, but he tasted mine and now he wants more!  I need to rethink, prep again and turn the oven back on.  Those caramelized onions, though!  I also didn't think about the pinyon unitl the last minute, but as you can see I'm lacking in the teensy nutcracker dept.  Definitely needed more pesto, grapefruit, and pine nuts, and perhaps some "mild" peppers.
Reesa

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2015, 08:46:07 PM »
Nice! The hard work...as in the dough being stiff/hard to roll out? If so, put in a couple baggies and a tub of warm water, get the dough warmed up real good and it rolls out MUCH easier
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

If you don't think you're getting what you should out of life.....maybe you're getting what you deserve       -the Root Beer Lady

Offline texmex

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2015, 09:00:36 PM »
Hard work as in, how many times do I  do this before i get it right?  I was spoiled by my first attempt, now I  gotta fix my doughs that I made after that. At least these frozen doughs are reworkable.
I do enjoy the journey.
Reesa

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2015, 09:08:04 PM »
Hard work as in, how many times do I  do this before i get it right?  I was spoiled by my first attempt, now I  gotta fix my doughs that I made after that. At least these frozen doughs are reworkable.
I do enjoy the journey.

We're all just junkies of one sort or the other, 'chasing the dragon', always thinking we can make it juuuusssssssst a little bit better---Confucious, or somebody like that:P

jon

“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

If you don't think you're getting what you should out of life.....maybe you're getting what you deserve       -the Root Beer Lady

Offline texmex

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2015, 12:25:11 PM »
 >:(  oh the indignity of it all!  I did the right thing and reballed my dough, but having to chop each of those reballed 20g balls really chapped my hide!   :-D

This is going to be a work in progress, but a few observations about appetizer pizza in the babycakes cake pop cooker:

1. Don't try to put the sauce inside...but don't give up on that thought either.
2. Get a very good seal at the seam, otherwise...gumline appears at the fissure.
3. De-fat the pepperoni before cooking because that's an extreme amt. of oil frying the dough
4. 10 grams of dough probably won't need the reball stage
6. Let the prepared stuffed apps sit a little bit to get more puff and a better seal before baking
5. I'm not sure I want pepperoni at 10 a.m.
7. I do not want a linearly numbered list today...or jalapeños.  >:D

The dough I used is the last one mentioned above in this thread.
Reesa

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Offline texmex

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2016, 10:04:28 AM »
Hmmmm....I can't remember what I made. Started out making a sd formula with 2 different cultures hoping to ferment at 75 degrees for 24 hours...no oil or sugar in the doughs 62% hydration.  I used my camaldoli and my own chuck cultures and was fermenting the doughs in my oven with the light on.  Then my brother invited me to go with him and his boys to see Star Wars. 
Figured out that my oven light radiates way more than 75 degrees, and both doughs were fully fermented by the time I got home.

The Camaldoli was ready to bake like RIGHT NOW, but I was not ready.  I tried to scale and ball but the dough was slack and sticky and wet after I handled it, so I added a ton of bench flour and those balls were looking quite satisfactory for a bake, but I was not ready, and my oven was not even on.  Scratch that dough, it was a goner, and would not have held up for the hour of heat up and ingredient prep.  I also had no mozz in the house so fuggedaboutit!

My chuck was slightly behind as far as fermentation but I did not want to waste it, so I scaled, balled and stuck those puppies in the fridge to deal with later. I had planned to bake New Year's eve but scratched that since half my dough was a goner and I was also out of flour to make more.  Chuckie stayed balled up in the fridge until yesterday...so that's a week old RT CF. :-D  I reballed them let them warm up in the oven with light on and prepped my ingredients. I also had one ball of my thawed from frozen regular dough sitting in there so I warmed him up too.

Moving my stones around and getting the proper setup in my oven has been interesting, and I believe that using the cast iron lid underneath my stone has created a generous amount of heat. It was only a matter of positioning the stones in the correct area of the oven that got me the heat on top and bottom that I need. With my broiler drawer oven it's been difficult to get browning on the tops of the pizzas in a consistent manner. I posted pics of my oven in one of Chau's home oven threads. Reply 28
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=37996
My initial chuckie pizza was cooked with the stones very close together towards the bottom of my oven. This resulted  in too quick of a bake, and the top and bottom fully cooked before the interior could even get close to being cooked. The outer third of the pie cooked pretty well but the center was very gummy. More than likely it has a lot to do with the exorbitant amount of cheese I put on pizza and my inability to be sparse with the toppings. I'm definitely going to work on that.

I decided to go ahead and move the top stone to the very top rack and I left the bottom stone on the bottom rack still sitting on the cast iron lid. My second Chucky was just beautifully fermented and so easy to handle even though it was pretty delicate. I was actually able to slap it back and forth in my hands which was kind of surprising to me. I really had to fight to get the ball out of the plastic bag without tearing it but it came out just awesome. I took a picture of the open dough because it just looks so damn pretty and fluffy. It took about 8 minutes to bake this pie, and about one second to lose it on the floor. You want to talk about frustrated, that pie was a beauty and I destroyed it by trying so hard to grab a picture of it right when it came out of the oven. I decided to go ahead and cut it right there on the floor, and take the crumb shots. Hahaha. I nearly cried because I was so damn hungry.  5 second rule don't play in my house...but dang I was tempted to eat some of that 2nd pie. At least my oven seems to be set up exactly how I need it now. Hooray for small steps forward.

So my third dough ball is my usual dough and it turns out that it was very lacking in fermentation because I stuck it in the freezer way before it ever had any time to get rise. My previous bakes have been hit and miss with this dough depending on how oong I've given it to RT before baking.  This one's been hanging out in the fridge for well over a week and it still was not very well risen. It took a while to open the dough ball, and I had inadvertantly turned off my oven, so began to feel immediately dejected about the whole damn pizza making process. But the show must go on, and it was pribably good for the dough that I had to wait for oven temp. So I used to the little bit of sauce that I had left, little bit of artichoke hearts and black olives with mozzarella feta and a dusting parmesan after the pie was done. I also drizzled some olive oil on it afterwards . It took about 8 minutes to be cooked, turning the pie once at 3 minutes, then again at 6.  That little strip of foil at the back of my top stone really helps keep the heat concentrated.

So...yep, trials and tribulations of a pizza hack going on right here y'all. Every single time, but the memory of supple well fermented dough has just hit me in the face again, and my aha moment came from deja vu.  I'm going to have to pay closer attention before I think my doughs are ready.   

Pics soon, I  have an appointment to get to....so here's my first pie in 7 pics (Chucky number one) who had some serious trouble with gum and too much queso! He looked decent enough until I cut him. But those gum bubbles under the cheese...I ate them. They actuall weren't all that gummy, but the very center..yuck!
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 03:01:16 PM by texmex »
Reesa

Offline texmex

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2016, 03:21:27 PM »
Why do I have to post these ? Maybe I should find wherever I lost my big ol' spatula and stop using that butcher knife to balance my pies on!  Seriously though...I need to document this stuff or I just won't remember what I  supposedly learnt from all this.

Mainly, cutting pizza on the floor and photgraphing it might get ya thrown in the loony bin! And, mop the floor, Reesa! Sheesh.

Seriously, the fermentation coupled with the oven set up of cast iron lid upside down on bottom rack, stone right on top of that (yeah it's wobbly too, but I like to live dangerously) then large rectangular stone on topmost rack with foil blocking at back edge to almost completely block airflow . Crank the oven to 550 and rotate the pies every 3 minutes to prevent scorching at the back end. Oh yeah, poke holes in the cornicione to prevent the topping slides...i see a hole right there in that oven shot.  Do not try to balance a pizza on a butcher knife while simultaneously trying to transfer it to my wood board while holding a 10 inch tablet camera ready to grab the perfect shot of a pizza prepared for takeoff. I  actually thought to myself...this is precarious, and whoosh, it took off!  Do laugh. Laugh a lot, and then cuss and cry because that pie was purty purty and ya never got to taste it! 
Reesa

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2016, 03:28:50 PM »
And now for the pièce de résistance!  Crumb shots on the floor.
These pics are not misoriented, I just held the slices awkwardly.
Reesa

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2016, 08:47:38 PM »
New one day dough using Calmadoli starter and a tiny pinch of ADY. I can't remember what hydration I asked for but I did use the sd calculation tool provided here  http://www.mightypizzaoven.com/sourdough-bread-or-pizza-recipe-creator/  with desire for about 8 hour fermentatiin at roughly 85 degrees.  I think I asked for 68% HD.  My formula included the following amounts:

64 grams Calmadoli starter (stiffer starter not 50/50)
427 grams All Purpose Peter Pan flour
273 grams water
11 grams crystal diamond kosher salt
9 grams grandma's molasses
Tiniest pinch of ADY
72 g of old dough that nlew out on me the other day.

I mixed in the KA just enough to make shaggy dough, rested 15 minutes then on stir for another 2 minutes.  I removed from the bowl folded a few times and placed in a plastic container, covered and set in the oven with the light on. Temp was about 90 at top part of oven on stone and 80 degrees on lower stone. I did stretch and folds every hour, and transferred container from upper rack to lower rack each time. 3 sets of s/f then scaled and balled and put into individual baggies and back to ferment.  Transferring location of dough as day went on.  The dough went into the oven to proof at 8 am, and I removed it at 3:40 and very gently reballed. 

 Turned on my oven and baked roughly 50 mins later. First pie hit the stone which read 602 degrees.
I rotated the pie once at 3 minutes and again at 6, then removed at 7. 

Very nice bake!  Hot dogs and pickle on a pizza...yeah, it was good! No gumline!

The 2nd pie with pepperoni and assorted toppings went onto a 589 degree stone and cooked for the same amount of time but the oven seemed to be firing at that time too to get up to temp, so the dough got browned quicker than the first pie.

Very happy with these pizzas!
Reesa

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Re: What did I make this time? Preferment dough for home oven
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2016, 08:53:05 PM »
More
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