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Author Topic: Chicago Thin - a labor of love  (Read 229499 times)

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Offline Garvey

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #880 on: October 06, 2020, 05:06:22 PM »
  I assume that the paste you (Garvey) and others have been using is the straight Contadina tomato paste?

I'm going to make the next sauce with the plain paste and see which we like better.  I may have inadvertently stumbled onto a recipe that we prefer, but won't know until we can compare

I use unflavored.

Btw, you'll love the no knead.

And it sounds like you got a bad batch on the Whole Foods sausage because it's always weirdly lean, IMO.  Great for deep dish, acceptable for thin.


Offline Nuke83

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #881 on: October 07, 2020, 04:39:28 PM »
I use unflavored.

Btw, you'll love the no knead.

And it sounds like you got a bad batch on the Whole Foods sausage because it's always weirdly lean, IMO.  Great for deep dish, acceptable for thin.

Thanks!  I suspected that I inadvertently used the wrong sauce, but even so, it had amazing flavor.  I was surprised that the Whole Foods sausage was sooooo fatty, especially after reading all the endorsements in this and the Deep Dish threads.  I'm going with your homemade recipe next time but may give WF another try later.

Looking forward to going with the no knead version.

Thanks...Tim

Offline TotalTravesty

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #882 on: October 11, 2020, 11:52:19 PM »
What a fantastic recipe that has stood the test of time. Thank you so much for your hard work and generosity! This was my second attempt after I forgot to properly proof my ADY the first time. Crust was amazing, sauce was very familiar and I bet your sausage recipe would've been outstanding too had the butcher counter at my nearby Jewel given me slightly fresher pork. If I ever have to live somewhere else, I'm glad I at least won't be wanting for Chicago thin pizza.

Offline Garvey

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #883 on: October 19, 2020, 07:17:14 PM »
First test of the new oven.  PF!

Offline lesagemike

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #884 on: October 20, 2020, 07:20:47 PM »
looks great!

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Offline Nuke83

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #885 on: October 22, 2020, 11:16:16 AM »
Garvey,

Quick question on the no knead method.  I made a 600g batch, but had used ADY and didn't bloom it first.  So the next morning, I made another 600g, but went ahead and bloomed the yeast.  After 36 & 24 hrs, I noticed that neither had risen much at all.  I just made another 600g batch, but with IDY, unbloomed and mixed in with dry ingredients.  Obviously no idea if this batch will rise or not.

My question is whether I should expect much if any rise in the dough given the cold ferment?  When I made the "original" version, I did punch down the ball during cold ferment once after about 8 hrs, then again when I split the dough, so I was expecting similar.

I get that the first batch may be a whiff since it was ADY, un-proofed, but with the bloomed yeast I think I would have expected some rise, but maybe not, and given these first two attempts, I'm not sure what to expect with the IDY batch.

Thanks...Tim

Offline Garvey

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #886 on: October 22, 2020, 09:22:28 PM »
Tim:

Letís set aside the fact that the regular recipe needed to be punched down after 8 hrs.  My guess is because that dough was likely warmer to begin with and just got going really fast, especially after being worked.

A cold ferment no-knead, assuming the yeast is OK, made with cold or room temp water and stashed in the fridge immediately should not really double.  I made my last batch, pictured above, and let it bulk ferment for 24-ish hrs before balling it into 300g each and wrapped them.  At this stage, it was spongy and clearly fermenting, albeit very slowly, which is the point.  How much bigger was it?  I dunno, 25%, 35%?  The transformation was subtle.

When I took the dough out yet another 24 hrs later to come up to room temp, they started to rise much more noticeably as it got warm.  Same thing yet another 48 hrs after that.  You can see from the pix above that it was clearly working.

So Iíd suggest you not worry and see what happens when you get ready to bake.  I suspect everything will be all right, again, assuming the yeast is ok.

The goal is a very slow ferment.  By skipping kneading and getting it in the fridge right away, you donít have that big flush of yeast growth.  Thatís exactly the goal, to not double.  What I mean is, if doubling, for example, means dough is ready and yeast has eaten what itís gonna eat, you want it to cross that finish line right before baking and not anytime sooner.

Experiment, take notes, and see what you like.  Yeast doughs are a fickle beast sometimes.  Even though I'm measuring, etc., and I'm a stickler for process, I still get variability.  I've had doughs double quickly, never double, and everything in between, and they all turn out delicious in the end.

HTH,
Garvey
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 09:25:06 PM by Garvey »

Offline foreplease

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #887 on: October 22, 2020, 11:23:28 PM »
Experiment, take notes, and see what you like.  Yeast doughs are a fickle beast sometimes.  Even though I'm measuring, etc., and I'm a stickler for process, I still get variability.  I've had doughs double quickly, never double, and everything in between, and they all turn out delicious in the end.

HTH,
Garvey


Definitely. Here is a recent low-talent bread I made that confounded me in a side-by-side pan, rise, and bake under identical circumstances.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26375.msg644671#msg644671
-Tony

Offline Nuke83

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #888 on: October 23, 2020, 10:32:39 AM »
Tim:

Letís set aside the fact that the regular recipe needed to be punched down after 8 hrs.  My guess is because that dough was likely warmer to begin with and just got going really fast, especially after being worked.

A cold ferment no-knead, assuming the yeast is OK, made with cold or room temp water and stashed in the fridge immediately should not really double.  I made my last batch, pictured above, and let it bulk ferment for 24-ish hrs before balling it into 300g each and wrapped them.  At this stage, it was spongy and clearly fermenting, albeit very slowly, which is the point.  How much bigger was it?  I dunno, 25%, 35%?  The transformation was subtle.

When I took the dough out yet another 24 hrs later to come up to room temp, they started to rise much more noticeably as it got warm.  Same thing yet another 48 hrs after that.  You can see from the pix above that it was clearly working.

So Iíd suggest you not worry and see what happens when you get ready to bake.  I suspect everything will be all right, again, assuming the yeast is ok.

The goal is a very slow ferment.  By skipping kneading and getting it in the fridge right away, you donít have that big flush of yeast growth.  Thatís exactly the goal, to not double.  What I mean is, if doubling, for example, means dough is ready and yeast has eaten what itís gonna eat, you want it to cross that finish line right before baking and not anytime sooner.

Experiment, take notes, and see what you like.  Yeast doughs are a fickle beast sometimes.  Even though I'm measuring, etc., and I'm a stickler for process, I still get variability.  I've had doughs double quickly, never double, and everything in between, and they all turn out delicious in the end.

HTH,
Garvey

Perfect, thanks!

I actually keep tons of notes on my experiments and in reviewing them, I figured it had everything to do with some initial dough proofing that occurs with the kneaded version vs the no knead.  The mix/20 minute absorption, then knead definitely makes a difference in dough rise during the cold fermentation.  In the kneaded version, I saw almost a doubling in dough ball in the first 24 hours vs. seeing almost no observable rising in the no knead, so I started questioning it.  Now that the balls have more than 50 hrs fermentation, I see that puffiness and some bubble craters in the dough.  At 24 hrs they had all the fluffiness of a ball of playdough.

So the good news is I'll have three different no knead dough formulations to compare.  ADY added dry with the dry ingredients, ADY bloomed and added with water and oil and IDY added with dry ingredients.  At this point, all three appear to be similar in activity, so it's likely that it won't make any difference at all.

Appreciate your replies.  It's nice to get confirmation of what I'm seeing is expected. 

Offline Garvey

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #889 on: October 23, 2020, 01:13:32 PM »
So the good news is I'll have three different no knead dough formulations to compare.  ADY added dry with the dry ingredients, ADY bloomed and added with water and oil and IDY added with dry ingredients.  At this point, all three appear to be similar in activity, so it's likely that it won't make any difference at all.

It sounds like the ADY might have eventually hydrated enough to jump to life, which is what I was hoping would happen.  I seem to recall someone else on this forum having done this kind of minor "oops" before and got good results in the end anyway.

Glad to help!

Cheers,
Garvey

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Offline Kathilliana

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #890 on: October 23, 2020, 01:27:52 PM »
I've been out of Chicago for 20 years. I was getting setups from S&T Provisions in Mt. Greenwood, but they just stopped shipping.

I'm going to try the sausage recipe this weekend. That's the biggest thing missing. Then I move onto sauce and crust.

I really struggle with the cheese. Part skim, low moisture is my go to, but it's just not the same.

Love this thread!

Offline Garvey

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #891 on: October 23, 2020, 02:29:22 PM »
I really struggle with the cheese. Part skim, low moisture is my go to, but it's just not the same.

Are you using pre-shredded cheese or are you shredding your own?

Offline Kathilliana

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #892 on: October 23, 2020, 04:14:55 PM »
Are you using pre-shredded cheese or are you shredding your own?
Ah. Is that the trick, because I will definitely start shredding my own!

Do you use low moister, part skim?

Offline Mmmph

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #893 on: October 23, 2020, 04:33:02 PM »
Whole milk low moisture mozzarella is the only way to go....


Do you use low moister, part skim?
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Offline TOSHIO

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #894 on: October 23, 2020, 04:40:04 PM »
When you are at the end of the supply chain (road) like we are, the sources for whole milk low moisture motz are Boar's Head Brand in the local grocery deli section or Walmart which for some reason carries it. (although seemingly with less flavor than the Boar's Head)

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Offline Kathilliana

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #895 on: October 23, 2020, 06:33:37 PM »
When you are at the end of the supply chain (road) like we are, the sources for whole milk low moisture motz are Boar's Head Brand in the local grocery deli section or Walmart which for some reason carries it. (although seemingly with less flavor than the Boar's Head)
Thanks! Boar's Head it is going forward.

Offline Garvey

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #896 on: October 23, 2020, 09:48:04 PM »
Ah. Is that the trick, because I will definitely start shredding my own!

Do you use low moister, part skim?

I've used both/anything/everything.

But if you're stuck with pre-shredded, dump it into a mesh strainer and toss it to remove as much of the anti-caking powder BS as possible.  It actually helps.

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #897 on: October 24, 2020, 12:33:19 AM »
I've used both/anything/everything.

But if you're stuck with pre-shredded, dump it into a mesh strainer and toss it to remove as much of the anti-caking powder BS as possible.  It actually helps.

Having talked to the Grande rep last week, if you can find it, Grande shredded or diced uses NO anti-caking agents of any kind. He said they make no apologies for their cheese sticking together, needing some manual coaxing to break it up, preferring that to the grainy feeling of the other stuff! I told him that's good to know and certainly no apologies needed!!!!
Jon

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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #898 on: October 24, 2020, 09:13:44 AM »
When you are at the end of the supply chain (road) like we are, the sources for whole milk low moisture motz are Boar's Head Brand in the local grocery deli section or Walmart which for some reason carries it. (although seemingly with less flavor than the Boar's Head)

If you have a Walmart, they should carry Great Value whole milk mozza.  Great Value products are generally pretty high quality imo.   :chef:

Offline timmur

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Re: Chicago Thin - a labor of love
« Reply #899 on: October 29, 2020, 10:42:27 PM »
Hi! I want to thank Garvey for posting this recipe. I did my best to follow his recipe precisely and can say that I love it! I made two 12" pizzas, one of which was made exactly as outlined in his recipe. The other pizza used the dough recipe but was my own idea for a meatball pizza. Both were really amazing in their own way. Garvey's Pizza Factory clone was the perfect sausage pizza. My wife raved over it and she normally doesn't like sausage on pizza at all. The sauce really works so well with the sausage; I was blown away with how great it was and how easy it was to make. I've never had this style before, though I'd read about it and was really anxious to give it a go. I found it much easier than my attempts at NY pizza. Rolling out the dough really makes it easy if you're not adept at handling dough.

The other pie I  made was meatball pizza inspired (very loosely) by Bartolini's. I say that while acknowledging that I've never had it and only seen it on Goldbelly. That was enough to convince me that I needed to take a run at it. I hadn't read anything about their pizza other than it was based on a Chicago thin (tavern?), but decided that I was going to do it my way. In my head I imagined a pizza with amazing Italian meatballs as the showcase and everything else as supporting actors to them. This would be a pizza that reminded you of a big plate of spaghetti and meatballs. This meant cooking the sauce to tone down the usual brightness in the sauce that I was used to. It also meant that the mozzarella was going to need the support of some sharp cheddar and a fairly heavy dusting with romano. I'm going to post pics and recipe below, but let me just say these two pizzas were each amazing in their own right, though quite different in every respect except the dough. I won't post Garvey's recipe again as I followed it religiously!  Here's the recipe for the meatballs in case anyone wants to to give them a try. I'll also include the sauce recipe.

Italian Meatball Recipe
Course ground meat:
1 1/2 lbs of ground chuck
1 1/2 lbs of rib eye (out of code/on sale)
6 eggs
1 1/2 cups of parmesan/romano blend
1 1/2 cups of crushed Ritz crackers (yep better than bread crumbs)
3/4 cup whole milk
1 1/2 tsp salt
1 1/2 tsp fresh ground black pepper
6 cloves of garlic (pressed)

Combine until just mixed. I used my stand mixer on the slowest speed. Form into balls and fry in a cast iron skillet or if you're lazy, cook them in the oven at 425 f. I cook them in a skillet until their are seared on all sides, but are not nearly done (probably 5 minutes total time). Once browned drop them into the sauce and cook until done (about 30-40 minutes).

The Sauce Recipe
1 28 Oz can of Ciao Italian Whole Peeled Tomatoes ( or whatever tomatoes you like)
1 6 Oz can of Contadina tomato paste (had extra from Garvey's sauce; use whatever you like)
3 Tbls of Olive oil (Colavita EV I think)
2 cloves of garlic (pressed)
2 tsp of Italian Seasoning (McCormick leftover from Garvey's sauce recipe!)

I don't have an immersion blender so I just broke up the tomatoes by hand and then added the rest of the ingredients. Simmer for about 1/2 hour then added meatballs and simmered for another 40 minutes. Those meatballs were sick! Cooled them off to add them to the pizza as a topping and saved the rest to make meatball bombers!

Baked the pies at 500 f on a 1/2" aluminum plate for about 8-9 minutes (convection oven). I forgot about the square cut so ended up cutting them traditional! Screwed up a key aspect!  :-[

« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 10:55:58 PM by timmur »

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