Author Topic: Marmite instead of autolyse?  (Read 2274 times)

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Offline ElRonno

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Marmite instead of autolyse?
« on: March 07, 2012, 06:32:14 PM »
Would it be, theoretically speaking, possible to skip the autolyse phase and just add some marmite to get the same result in taste? After all, Marmite is just autolyzed yeast.

Oh, and Marmite's ingredients also seem to include niacin, thiamine and folic acid; the same ingredients as commonly found in some flour enhancers or 'enriched flour'.

Just wondering  :chef:
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Offline Don K

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Re: Marmite instead of autolyse?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2012, 08:22:01 PM »
I don't think so. Autolysed yeast is not the same as autolysed dough. When we autolyse dough it really isn't really the same thing. In fact, what we call autolyse is actually supposed to be performed before any yeast is added (only flour and water).

If I remember correctly, Marimite, Vegimite, etc., are made by adding salt to brewers yeast, which kills the cells and causes them to digest themselves (autolysis). They also add spices and other ingredients. Don't you think that it will change the taste of the dough quite a bit? Marimite/Vegimite is some powerful stuff taste-wise.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Marmite instead of autolyse?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2012, 02:23:22 PM »
The only thing is common is the root of the words: Autolysis - meaning self digestion or self destruction through enzyme action. As the Colonel noted, in Marmite, the yeast is killed and subsequently broken down by enzymes.

I think the most common meaning of autolyse you see around here refers to a process of gluten development. However there is a little more to it. Raymond Cavel named the baking process called "Autolyse" because of the "self destruction" connotation. He wanted to make a stronger and more extensible dough without excessive mixing which can bleach out flavor and color due to incorporating too much oxygen. Autolyse can accomplish this.

During the rest or "autolyse," the components of gluten network are developed: gliadins and glutenins. The gliadin proteins are responsible for the viscous properties such as extensibility while the glutenin proteins contribute the elasticity and strength. At the same time this is happening, naturally occurring protease enzymes in the flour become activated by the water and go to work breaking down the gluten proteins - primarily the gliadins - making the dough more extensible while still gaining strength and elasticity from the glutenins. You get much of the same effect as extended mixing but without the oxidation. The formation and activity of the enzymes in the flour are really favored in an acidic environment - one reason not to add your yeast before the autolyse.

So some similar concepts as seen in yeast extracts, but noting in common in practical terms.

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Offline Sqid

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Re: Marmite instead of autolyse?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2012, 07:41:33 AM »
Very interesting post Craig.  I wonder if the gliadin and glutenins are always found in the same ratio to each other.  And if there is any way of developing one more than the other.   I presume that the gliadine is responsible for how much you can stretch it ab=nd the glutenin could be blames for any tears that happen.

The formation and activity of the enzymes in the flour are really favored in an acidic environment - one reason not to add your yeast before the autolyse.

Are you saying that the yeast creates an alkaline enviroment.   I put my yeast (preferment) in before I autolyse.   I thought I was getting a double wammy by giving the yeast a chance to wake up before getting incorporated in the dough.   Maybe I will have to change my method.