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Author Topic: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!  (Read 111133 times)

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Offline bobgraff

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #280 on: September 27, 2017, 10:30:18 PM »
Great work Nick - your pizzas look fantastic!  I am anxiously awaiting your new and improved recipe to try it out myself.

Can someone give me a tip on how to reduce the bubbles in the crust?  I generally don't parbake as I like that wet layer to contrast with the crunch on the bottom.  I had thought about par-baking with sauce for 3-4 mins then go with toppings and hope that anything I put on top will collapse the bubbles.  I generally see them along the rim but occasionally out in the middle of the pie.

I almost always par-bake with sauce to reduce bubbles.  The sauce doesn't completely eliminate them, however it does keep the top layer moist enough that (assuming you've poked them with a fork) they can be deflated somewhat while the skin is cooling between par-bake and the final bake.   During my 4-5 minute par-bake, I generally open the oven once around the 2.5 minute mark to pop bubbles.

Another trick to try if you par-bake without sauce is to poke the bubbles during the par-bake, then invert the naked skin on the cooling rack and place a screen on top of the skin to help collapse the bubbles.

Lastly - I have noticed that older dough seem to bubble less-so than younger dough.  You might experiment with longer cold ferments (72 hour vs 4+ days).
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 11:57:33 PM by bobgraff »
Bob

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Offline discusmb1

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #281 on: September 28, 2017, 06:31:43 AM »
Have a question about cracker style. With par baking the crust, is it possible to par bake and then set them aside for a later bake? Wasn't sure if par baking in the morning and then finish baking in the evening would be possible. Have a Christmas party of 40 people in December and have a WFO. Trying to center the party out on the pool lanai and keep myself out of the kitchen and closer to the beverages. Figuring with that many people, doing the neapolitan style will keep me more active laterally rather than vertically doing arm curls and enjoying the evening. Any thoughts or recommendations? Figuring a cracker style would be more along the lines of an appetizer that I could finish bake in the WFO.
Thanks
Brian

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #282 on: September 28, 2017, 12:41:45 PM »
 I don't think that would be a problem. I would do a test run. I would par bake the skin  then let it sit for the amount of time till you were going to start the finish bake. If you are thinking about doing it the day before, I don't know if that work. If so, try and see what happens. Be sure to cool the skin to room temp before removing from the cooling rack. I would be wary of placing them in a sealed bag, they may get soft. I would think if you did the par bake in the morning, they should be OK by evening. If you try a test run, let us know how it went either way. Good luck! Nick

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #283 on: September 28, 2017, 12:58:16 PM »
Have a question about cracker style. With par baking the crust, is it possible to par bake and then set them aside for a later bake? Wasn't sure if par baking in the morning and then finish baking in the evening would be possible.
Thanks
Brian

Brian,

I am sure if you do some searching in old questions, you will find some people who have done this.  I seem to remember some board posters talking about this very topic in years gone by, but the details escape me.

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

Offline discusmb1

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #284 on: September 28, 2017, 01:58:16 PM »
Thanks Nick. I am probably looking at a 6 hour grace period between par and final bake. Just not sure how I would store them as I would probably have to do flat with no edges like the pan you are using. Test run it is this weekend.
Ernie, I will try doing a search to see what I can find. Thanks for the heads up.

Brian

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Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #285 on: September 28, 2017, 04:33:03 PM »
I think you will be OK at 6 hours. Post results...with pics if you can. I made a dough ball yesterday, and will bake tomorrow. Hope it works out. Either way, I will post results. The anticipation is killin' me.  :)

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #286 on: September 29, 2017, 07:30:15 PM »
 I was looking at my first post in this thread and I  stated " So, I think this will be my final recipe for cracker crust pizza, I don' think I can improve it." Boy was I wrong!  I have tried all sorts of dough formulas and cooking techniques over the years. I have had crusts that were like peanut brittle with no chew to more like thin and crispy with lots of chew. This latest version is crackery with a little chew, it reminds of a Ken's pizza but with a thinner crust. A lot of my attempts have been very good, but not quite what I was looking for. This one is not perfect, but I am really pleased with the crunch and chew. I may  not be able to recreate the old school PH cracker crust, but I am close. I will have some fun trying a poolish to see if it improves the flavor since the crust is more or less flavorless. I am also going to try my hand at a quick RT ferment so in an emergency I can make the dough a few hours beforehand when I need to bake it.

 I did a 48 hour CF. The dough is good to use even going out to 72 hours. I use a 14" cutter pan when par baking the crust. A flat pan can be used, a pizza screen or baked directly on a stone. A pizza stone is a must for the cracker like crust. A baking steel could be used, but you might have to lower the temps to keep the bottom from burning. I roll the crust out to 20 inches just in case I have a bad spot or a craggy edge. You may be able to make a smaller skin if you are not using a cutter pan or are directly baking on a stone. Below is the exact formula I have used on my last  3 pies. I did not use the dough calculator, just tried something new from what I have learned in the past attempts. Using the dough calculator I reversed engineered  the formula. It is close enough that you should get the same results. I have included it, so you can make any size skin you are after. One of the major differences between this and my last attempts a while back, is the blending of different flours. I used a 50/50 blend of KAAP and KABF.

Dough formula
373 grams flour  50/50 blend KAAP/KABF
157 grams of water
1/3 teaspoon IDY
   1 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon sugar
   3 tablespoons oil

The procedure:

Place the dry ingredients in a food processor and pulse a couple of times to combine. Add the oil to the water and whisk to breakup  the oil droplets. With the processor running on low slowly add the liquid mixture to the dry ingredients. Blend till everything is combined. Stop the processor and scrape down the sides. Pulse the mixture 5 or 6 more times. Let the mixture sit for a few minutes to help the flour hydrate. Dump the dough mixture onto the counter and squeeze together to form a ball. The mixture may need a spritz of water if it is too dry. Use just enough to get the mixture to hold together. It usually needs only a couple of sprays. This time I formed the dough into a disc instead of a ball to help in rolling out. Place the dough in a oiled plastic baggy. Move to the fridge for a minimum of 24 hours. 48 hours is better, and even 72 hours will work.


« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 07:42:21 PM by nick57 »

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #287 on: September 29, 2017, 07:33:22 PM »
Remove the dough to the counter 3 hours prior to baking to warm up.  Dust the counter lightly with KABF.  Roll the skin out till it starts sticking. Then lightly dust the top of the skin and flip over and continue rolling. Repeat till the skin is the size you need. Place the skin in the pan and using a rolling pin on the edge of the cutter pan roll to separate the leftover dough.

Dock the dough heavily then turn the pan 90 degrees and dock again. This will help in reducing large bubbles. Place the skin in the cutter pan on the stone in a 550 degree oven that has been pre-heating for at least an hour. Par bake for about 2 to 3 minutes., or until the crust has just set, pull it out before any browning. Remove the skin from the pan to a cooling rack. Be careful the crust is very delicate and can easily crack. Leave it on the rack for 10 to 15minutes.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 09:43:36 PM by nick57 »

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #288 on: September 29, 2017, 07:35:24 PM »
 Move the skin to a peel and add toppings. For the pie I used 6 oz of Strianese whole tomatoes that I pureed , 5 oz Best Choice mozzarella and 4.5 oz Garvey's Italian sausage.  Using the peel, slide the pie onto the stone. Cook time will be around 7 minutes. Remove pie to a cooling rack. For a crisper bottom let the pie cool for about 5 minutes then slide back onto the stone for 60 seconds, you should not do more than 90 seconds to keep the bottom from burning. Move the pie to the cooling rack for at least 5 minutes before slicing.

  I wrote this walkthrough before making the pie. I wanted to make sure that I did not forget anything. I followed the directions to the letter. The verdict: The crust was very crackery with a tender and light chew. The blend of both flours seemed to work very well. It gave it the characteristics I was looking for. If you have any questions be sure to ask.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 10:22:23 PM by nick57 »

Offline norma427

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #289 on: September 29, 2017, 07:59:16 PM »
Nick,

Very nice pictorial and excellent instructions!  Beautiful pie.  :drool:

Norma

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Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #290 on: September 29, 2017, 08:08:17 PM »
Wow Nick, fantastic pizza and great write-up!! Pie looks excellent  :drool:
the proof is in the pizza

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #291 on: September 29, 2017, 08:32:11 PM »
Thanks guys!!! I wanted to make sure that even though there are a lot of steps, it would still be easy to follow. The only problem, being a thin crust, I can consume more slices.

Offline bobgraff

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #292 on: September 29, 2017, 08:37:44 PM »
Thanks for the detailed write-up!
Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline jvp123

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #293 on: September 29, 2017, 09:05:13 PM »
Move the skin to a peel and add toppings. For the pie I used 6 oz of Strianese tomatoes, 5 oz Best Choice mozzarella and 4.5 oz Garvey's Italian sausage.  Using the peel, slide the pie onto the stone. Cook time will be around 7 minutes. Remove pie to a cooling rack. For a crisper bottom let the pie cool for about 5 minutes then slide back onto the stone for 60 seconds, you should not do more than 90 seconds to keep the bottom from burning. Move the pie to the cooling rack for at least 5 minutes before slicing.

  I wrote this walkthrough before making the pie. I wanted to make sure that I did not forget anything. I followed the directions to the letter. The verdict: The crust was very crackery with a tender and light chew. The blend of both flours seemed to work very well. It gave it the characteristics I was looking for. If you have any questions be sure to ask.

Thanks so much for the detailed post, Nick!  You’re making one of my favorite pies.  I need to get back to making these soon!  :drool: 
Jeff

Offline CaptBob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #294 on: September 29, 2017, 09:51:42 PM »
Nick,

Very nice pictorial and excellent instructions!  Beautiful pie.  :drool:

Norma

Oh yeah!! Just a great pie Nick!!
Bob

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Offline discusmb1

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #295 on: October 04, 2017, 11:24:01 AM »
So I used one of Nick's recipes last week to make a cracker crust dough with the intention of par baking and then using 6 hours later in the WFO. Got around to using it Sunday night after fermenting on the counter for 48 hours. Everything mirrored Nick's photo's and I rolled out the dough and cut into rectangles that were about the size of my wood peel. Baked for 3 minutes and they came out perfect, except for the one I forgot to dock, it looked like a piece of nan. They survived the 6 hour break on the counter and we loaded them up and fired 6 of them in the WFO.

First one browned faster than expected and before the cheese could really melt. Figured it was because I was running close to 700 degrees on the floor of the oven.

Second through 6, I reduced the temp to near 550 degrees and the cooking improved. Buffalo Mozzarella melted, the edges of the cracker were light golden brown along with the underside (sorry, I didn't take any pictures). Only downside is the flavor of the entire project was lacking. Did three reds and three whites and they seemed to be flat. I was going more neo pie on a cracker crust. Any thoughts or suggestions? Sauce was San Marzano and it almost tasted bitter with the thin crust compared to a poofed up neo crust.

Also, what would happen if I was to switch the AP with Caputo 00 as the flour for a cracker crust? Thinking without the malt in the flower, I would have a longer bake time at a slightly higher temperature before I turned it into a charcoal briquette.

Thanks for the input

Brian

Offline discusmb1

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #296 on: October 04, 2017, 11:26:25 AM »
Oh, forgot to mention that we took the one that looked like nan, lathered it in some melted butter and sprinkled cinnamon and sugar on it. Quick baked it in the WFO and it was really good.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #297 on: October 04, 2017, 05:12:00 PM »
  Brian, 700 degrees seems a little high for a cracker. I bake mine at 550 degrees, a lot of members bake theirs at 450 degrees all the way up to 550 degrees. You could try baking on a screen to increase the bake time so the top would finish at the same time the bottom is done.  If the bottom is done you could try to dome the pie to get the top to finish. Leaving out the sugar in the formula should help somewhat with the burning of the bottom. I have been using San Marzano whole tomatoes which I puree on the last three pies. I add a pinch of salt and a little sugar. After baking, the sauce has a sweet profile. I have not had any experience using Caputo 00 Flour, my oven only goes to 550 degrees which is too low for achieving a good bake. Some of our members that bake with a WFO may be more of help with that subject. Sounds like you are getting good results. Keep us informed with your progress, pics also if you can.

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #298 on: October 04, 2017, 10:15:43 PM »
  Brian, 700 degrees seems a little high for a cracker. I bake mine at 550 degrees, a lot of members bake theirs at 450 degrees all the way up to 550 degrees.

You can certainly bake cracker crust pizzas at 450-550 degrees, but I recommend backing them at 600-700 degrees if possible.  My preferred cooking apparatus is a 2Stone on my gas 5-burner grill, which gets the stone up to ~700 degrees after 45-60 minutes of preheating.  I like how the heat causes the crust to bubble and gives a nice crispy crust.  :D   Sometimes the bubbling can become too excessive and you have to poke it down, like I used to see being done at Round Table and Happy Joe's back in the day.

 -ME
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Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #299 on: October 05, 2017, 12:54:54 PM »
  ME, I imagine you get some pretty quick bake times at those temps, and a super crispy crust. I could fiddle with my oven and maybe get 585 degrees, but I think I will leave well enough alone. I enjoy all the different styles of pies I make, but I always have a craving for a cracker crust. My latest formula does very well when re-heated, almost as good as when first cooked. My past crackers the crust never quite crisped up when re-heated.

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