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Author Topic: Steve’s and Bob’s “Maiden Bakes” in their vintage Airstream Mobile WFO trailer  (Read 13994 times)

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Offline Ev

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Thanks Craig.

 I don't know about Normas' dough but mine was 3% total dough weight, Ischia. About 24 hr. room temp 72 degrees or so.
When I die, I want my remains scattered all over Disney World. Also, I don't want to be cremated!

Offline norma427

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Norma, how much Ischia culture did you add (%) to the pie that was so sour? What was the fermentation time and temp?

Thanks,
Craig

Craig,

The pie that I made that had some sourness in the crust was the preferment was expressed at 1.8% of the total water.  The dough ball weighed 250 grams, had 2.8% sea salt, 60% hydration and was controlled temperature fermented in my homemade proofing box at about 68 degrees F for about 30 hours with Nordic Ice (long lasting ice packs).  It was then outside at temperatures in the high 80’s for about 2 hrs, or a little less.  The dough ball was in a bag with Nordic Ice, but I know the temperatures were higher there because the plastic tote bag wasn’t insulated.  The dough was the soaker dough made with Bova 00 flour. 

I had always wanted to try a starter that had sat out for a week at room temperature without feeding.  I fed it two times in one day and did not discard any of the starter after sitting out for a week.  The starter was active.  I could smell the starter was a lot different smelling than when I normally use it after feeding it normally.  The starter had a distinct sour smell.  The crust wasn’t really sour, but I still prefer a crust that is made with a starter that has been fed regularly and has that sweeter sour smell.

Norma 

Offline wheelman

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wow! that trailer looks like fun on wheels.  great pizza too
bill

Offline TXCraig1

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The pie that I made that had some sourness in the crust was the preferment was expressed at 1.8% of the total water.

Norma, are you measuring your starter as a % of the water and the rest of the ingredients as a % of the flour?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 10:30:43 AM by TXCraig1 »
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Ev

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Thanks Bill.
When I die, I want my remains scattered all over Disney World. Also, I don't want to be cremated!

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Offline TXCraig1

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Norma, are you measuring your starter as a % of the water and the rest of the ingredients as a % of the flour?

I ask because that would be different from what I typically see here (everything measured as a % of the flour). If you are doing it this way, when you change your hydration, you would also have to change your amount of yeast to keep the yeast % the same. If all your ingridients are measured as a % of the flour, you don't need to change yeast to keep the same yeast %, right?

This would have an interesting effect overall. If you measure all ingridients as a % of the flour, when hydration goes up, the % of yeast in the total dough goes down. If you measure yeast as a % of the water and the other ingridients as a % of the flour, when hydration goes up, the % of yeast in the total dough would also go up.

Just a thought.

Craig
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Offline thezaman

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steve,and norma, that is a great setup. has it been in the road yet? what oven kit did you use? is the turning peel a cut down full pizza peel, if so great idea!!

Offline norma427

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I ask because that would be different from what I typically see here (everything measured as a % of the flour). If you are doing it this way, when you change your hydration, you would also have to change your amount of yeast to keep the yeast % the same. If all your ingredients are measured as a % of the flour, you don't need to change yeast to keep the same yeast %, right?

This would have an interesting effect overall. If you measure all ingredients as a % of the flour, when hydration goes up, the % of yeast in the total dough goes down. If you measure yeast as a % of the water and the other ingredients as a % of the flour, when hydration goes up, the % of yeast in the total dough would also go up.

Just a thought.

Craig


Craig,

I posted the exact formulation I used for the soaker pizza at Steve’s and Bob’s with the Bova 00 flour at Reply 242  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19129.msg190846.html#msg190846  You can see on those worksheets that I calculated the Ischia starter at the % of the total water and soaker amount (says preferment) by the % of the total dough weight.  The soaker sat for a day in the fridge before it was incorporated into the final dough.  I used this same formulation for all three of my dough balls for Steve’s (1 with soaker with the Bova 00 flour and Ischia starter, 1 with Pizzeria flour (no soaker) and Ischia starter and 1 with Rinforzato flour and Ischia starter (no soaker).  I did up the salt amount in all three doughs, which was different than what is posted on the work sheets. 

I am not sure I understand what you are saying about changing the yeast amount, or the hydration.

Norma

Offline TXCraig1

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Basically, I was curious if you measure your culture as a % of the water, and the water, salt, etc. as a % of the flour? It sounded like that in your post above.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline norma427

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Basically, I was curious if you measure your culture as a % of the water, and the water, salt, etc. as a % of the flour? It sounded like that in your post above.

Craig,

For awhile I have been using the culture as the percent of the water when I make Neapolitan doughs. I think what I did in the soaker dough was also used the percent of the water for the salt and hydration also.  The soaker amount is just removed to make sure 50% of the flour is used is the total formulation.  I have only used that for soaker doughs that I have made.  Does that make sense to you?

Norma

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Offline Ev

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steve,and norma, that is a great setup. has it been in the road yet? what oven kit did you use? is the turning peel a cut down full pizza peel, if so great idea!!

Thanks Larry. No, we've not hit the road yet. We're still working on the details. We just finished the plumbing for the sinks and today we were building counter tops.
 That's FB casa G90. Seems to work pretty well, though I haven't really pushed it too hard yet. I actually kind of like 2 minute bakes. It'll make it easier to bake 2 or 3 at a time, I think.
 Yes, that's a regular 12 inch rectangular peel cut down to an 8 inch round. Call me cheap but it works for me! :-D
When I die, I want my remains scattered all over Disney World. Also, I don't want to be cremated!

Offline TXCraig1

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Craig,

For awhile I have been using the culture as the percent of the water when I make Neapolitan doughs.

I was just curious why you did this as opposed to using flour as the basis for everything.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline norma427

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I was just curious why you did this as opposed to using flour as the basis for everything.

CL

Craig,

I started using a culture by the percent of the water because that is what Peter posted that Marco uses many times.  One such post is at Reply 145 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10024.msg89295.html#msg89295   Peter also explains more at Reply 557 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1258.msg58693.html#msg58693 about Marco’s methods quoted from Peter‘s post:

“As you know, the idea of using much smaller amounts of natural starter came from pizzanapoletana (Marco). He deserves full credit for introducing that idea to the forum. Marco suggested use of 1-5% natural starter. However, in line with common Neapolitan baker's percent practice, the 1-5% was by weight of the formula water, not by weight of the formula flour (although it is easy enough to convert to weight of flour). At levels of 1-5% by weight of water, the primary effect of using such a natural starter (in addition to flavor enhancement, of course) is to leaven the dough, just as commercial yeast does.”

Peter also posted on other threads about this method.

Maybe I am not understanding something right, or doing something wrong.  What are your thoughts?  You know a lot more about Neapolitan doughs than I do.  ;D

Norma

Offline Chicago Bob

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Dang Steve, very nice pies for a first go around...you sure you need to play around with the temps.? Those are really professional looking...great job!  And the "pizza pod  ::) ;D " is just awesome man...so cool.   8)

Bob
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Offline TXCraig1

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Marco measures everything as a % of the water. There is no prctical difference using flour or water as your basis of measurement. They are directly convertable either way, but when you measure the yeast as a % of water and the rest as a % of flour, some interesting things happen to your formula. For example, when you change hydration, you also have to change your yeast to keep your yeast % of the water the same. This is not the case if you measure everything as a % of flour.

I can't think of any reason to measure yeast as a % of the water unless you measure everything as a % of the water. It just creates confusion because you introduce interactive effects when you change the formula, and you no longer have any common point of reference.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline norma427

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Marco measures everything as a % of the water. There is no prctical difference using flour or water as your basis of measurement. They are directly convertable either way, but when you measure the yeast as a % of water and the rest as a % of flour, some interesting things happen to your formula. For example, when you change hydration, you also have to change your yeast to keep your yeast % of the water the same. This is not the case if you measure everything as a % of flour.

I can't think of any reason to measure yeast as a % of the water unless you measure everything as a % of the water. It just creates confusion because you introduce interactive effects when you change the formula, and you no longer have any common point of reference.

CL

Craig,

I can almost understand what you posted.  :-\ I just use the preferment calculation tool and let it do the numbers.  If I am doing something wrong, or somehow you think I should do something differently, let me know.  All I know is that when the % of the water is used I think the culture then is a smaller amount than if it would be figured out as the % of the flour.  Maybe I don’t even understand at all.  I am only learning about making sourdough.  I have a lot to learn.   :-D

Norma

Offline TXCraig1

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I don't think it is wrong per se. I think it will make it difficult when you or others make formula adjustments. If you use flour, for example, as the basis of measurement for all the other ingredients, when you change the water, you don't change the way you measure yeast. If you have two measurement basis, when you change your water, your yeast % also changes. Say you have a dough that is 64% hydration and 3% yeast. If you lower your hydration to 60%, your yeast increases to 3.2% without you increasing the amount of yeast. It's just a mathematical thing.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline norma427

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I don't think it is wrong per se. I think it will make it difficult when you or others make formula adjustments. If you use flour, for example, as the basis of measurement for all the other ingredients, when you change the water, you don't change the way you measure yeast. If you have two measurement basis, when you change your water, your yeast % also changes. Say you have a dough that is 64% hydration and 3% yeast. If you lower your hydration to 60%, your yeast increases to 3.2% without you increasing the amount of yeast. It's just a mathematical thing.

Craig,

Every time I make formula adjustments for hydration, yeast, salt, or anything I always use the dough calculations tools and make a new print out sheet.  I don’t know if you have seen all my posts where I always say I am really bad at math, but I have posted that many times.  I just can’t do the math myself.  :-[

Norma

Offline TXCraig1

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Bad at math but great at pizza. Sounds like a good tradeoff to me.  :-D
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline norma427

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Bad at math but great at pizza. Sounds like a good tradeoff to me.  :-D

Craig,

I continue to learn each day to make different doughs.  My Neapolitan doughs and using cultures isn’t up to speed.  I will continue to learn.  

I can understand your explanation if someone sees one of my formulations when doing them at the % of total water they might get confused if they want to change something.  I might switch back to using the % of total flour again.  Being I am a woman I can change my mind at will.   :-D >:D

Norma

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