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Author Topic: Camaldoli culture and dough/preferment calculators  (Read 167 times)

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Offline billg

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Camaldoli culture and dough/preferment calculators
« on: July 04, 2020, 11:28:13 AM »
Hey Guys,
Happy 4th to everyone!!!  I am about to embark on my sour dough journey and can use some guidance from the pros.  I started my culture with 1 packet of Camaldoli culture and mixed in 105 grams of flour and 225 grams of water.  Subsequent feedings have been 140 grams of flour and 170 grams of water.  So my first question is what dough calculator would be best to use to figure out the amount of starter to use.  My dough making process is to mix everything in my Ankarsrum mixer until everything is together but clumpy.  Let it rest for 20 minutes or so and mix until the dough is shiny and smooth.  I let it rest again and do a few sets of kneeding  and folding with 10 minute rests in between each until its perfectly smooth.  I then bulk ferment at 60 degrees.  Depending on time for either 24 or 48 hour I leave it in bulk and then ball anywhere from 4-6 hours in plastic dough trays with birch wood on the bottom at 70 degrees.  I don't know what calculator would allow me to just put  my basic information in and calculate the correct percentages.  I used the mighty pizza stone calculator which does exactly what I want but want to be sure the calculator is a reflection of Craig's sour dough prediction chart.  The other question I have is the other calculators used on this forum asks for preferment percentage of water.  Based on the information I gave above, how would I determine that number.

I usually use caputo pizzeria at 58-65 % hydration and never cold ferment. My temperature for bulk is rock steady at 60 degrees and my ball fermentation time of 4-6 hours ranges from 70-72 degrees.  Any help is much appreciated and would love to use just 1 calculator that is reflective of Craig's chart (whether sour dough or commercial yeast) that I know I can trust as a really strong starting point.  I know I will have to tweak it a bit but I'm Ok with experimenting.  My heart would like me to do 48 hours of total fermentation time with say 42 in bulk and 6 hours in balls but for stating out this may be a stretch until I get to know my starter.  Please advise!!!

Kind Regards,
Bill
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 11:59:44 AM by billg »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Camaldoli culture and dough/preferment calculators
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2020, 01:29:51 PM »
Bill,

What you are asking for is rather tricky.

However, in my opinion, the best starting point may be to use Craig's chart at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=22649.0

Using Craig's chart would be rather easy if you were only planning to make some dough and let it ferment at some particular temperature and time. But since you plan a series of dough preparation and management steps at different times and temperatures, you will want to make use of Craig's chart in the way he describes at Replies 31-34, starting at Reply 31 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=22649.msg230690#msg230690

Once you are able to survive using Craig's charts ;D, and most likely chart 3 or 4, and you know how much sourdough starter to use and its composition, you can then think about using the preferment dough calculating tool at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/preferment-calculator.html

However, to use that tool, you will need to have a recipe that contains all of the other things that are to go into the dough, and enter the pertinent information into the tool (things like hydration, salt, oil, sugar, any added commercial yeast). The sourdough starter will have to be specified as a percent of flour, water or dough weight. You will also need to know the dough ball weight you want to use, or the thickness factor and size of pizza you want to make. You can also specify the number of dough balls you want to make.

As for your question about how to calculate the percent of water in the preferment, that is shown by the Note in the preferment box in the tool. In your case, if you have been regularly feeding your sourdough starter with 140 grams of flour and 170 grams of water, then the percent of water in the starter is 170/(140 + 170) = 54.84%.

I hope the above helps. You might also find it useful to read the information about the tool that is presented at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4996.msg42266.html#msg42266 to see if that is the way you want to go. Quite often people start with a known recipe that includes use of a sourdough starter or they start out with a recipe that does not call for use of a sourdough starter but convert it to use a sourdough starter.

Peter


Offline billg

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Re: Camaldoli culture and dough/preferment calculators
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2020, 01:45:21 PM »
Thanks for the Reply Peter.  I looked over Craig's chart and use it for ADY and IDy with great results and can tweak it a bit since I have experience with both yeasts and know how my dough will perform.  The mighty pizza calculator and the preferment calculator offer results that seem accurate but for 1 of them I needed the preferment hydration percentage which I didn't really know how to fill in.  The mighty pizza calculator allows me to put in the amount of time at each step, the temperature at each step, number of dough balls, weight, hydration, salt , etc... I guess I just wasn't sure if that calculator is accurate and if it is based off of Craig's chart.  If so, it is actually ideal since it does the math for you.  I just want to be sure the math or formula is correct based on Craig's charts. 

Regards,
Bill

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Camaldoli culture and dough/preferment calculators
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2020, 03:31:35 PM »
Note that the chart Peter linked to is different from the IDY/ADY/CY chart. It's specific to SD.

I think Bert did base the Mighty Pizza Calculator off of my charts. I don't know if he tweaked it any or not.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Camaldoli culture and dough/preferment calculators
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2020, 03:34:40 PM »
IMO, this is one of the best all-inclusive calculators: https://calbal.altervista.org/
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

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Offline billg

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Re: Camaldoli culture and dough/preferment calculators
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2020, 03:54:14 PM »
Hey Craig,
Happy 4th!!  Thanks for the reply.  I was referring to the accuracy of the charts you provided in relation to the might pizza calculator and understood what Peter meant as far as what chart to use for preferment.  I use the ADY/IDY/Cy chart all the time with fantastic results (thank you!) and just wanted to dial in the sour dough %'s a little tighter since it's a new starter and don't really know yet how it will perform.  I know for sure that the bulk of my fermentation will be at 60 degrees no matter what time of year it is and no matter what temp it is outside.  My only real variable is in time with balling.  I usually ball anywhere from 4-8 hours at room temp in my kitchen which is between 70 and 72 and since using wood bottoms in my dough boxes I stay at the lower end of that number for the second fermentation if you will.  If I were to use the sourdough chart you provided for 24 hour total ferment time would I just go to my end temp at say 70 for 6 hours then go up to 60 degrees on the chart.  Then add 18+10 and go to 28 hours at 60 and then follow the chart up to the top for the approximate %?  Does that make sense?

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