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Author Topic: I ordered a WFO  (Read 135132 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #140 on: August 12, 2012, 10:56:35 PM »
Hey Gene - do I need to come to CC to help you with the oven when Tom finishes it?
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #141 on: August 13, 2012, 10:39:58 AM »
Yes.  I also need more flour, a bottle of bourdeux would make a nice oven warming gift as well.  Pepperoni and Pancetta if you can remember to throw some in with the other stuff.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #142 on: August 13, 2012, 10:58:54 AM »
Whats that song..."That's what friends are for..."    :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #143 on: August 13, 2012, 08:56:23 PM »
The formwork is done, started beating firebrick remnants into 3/8" gravel, hope to place the refractory concrete in the next couple of days.

Offline ThatsAmore

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #144 on: August 13, 2012, 09:14:26 PM »
The formwork is done, started beating firebrick remnants into 3/8" gravel, hope to place the refractory concrete in the next couple of days.

How's the engine doing ?   :-D
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Offline shuboyje

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #145 on: August 13, 2012, 09:19:54 PM »
What refractory are you going to use?
-Jeff

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #146 on: August 13, 2012, 09:32:56 PM »
The car runs like a champ.  For the refractory concrete, I am using Type S mortar mix, lime, fireclay, masonry cement, and 3/8" firebrick grog at the following ratio:  3/.75/.75/.75/.75/.5 for a homebrew, along with a good dose of bonding agent.  The type S mortar consists of masonry cement and sand at a 1/3 ratio.

edit to save you the math, it is your basic 1/1/1/3 homebrew with the addition of 2 parts grog to make it concrete instead of mortar.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 09:34:46 PM by Tscarborough »

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #147 on: August 13, 2012, 10:39:10 PM »
Stupid question time...does this slurry expand/contract while curing and if so is that what the 3/8 grog is for....
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 10:41:31 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #148 on: August 13, 2012, 11:04:48 PM »
It is not a slurry, a slurry would have too much water and would have shrinkage cracks at 2" thickness and minimal compressive strength, no flexural strength and is generally 1/8" to 1/4" thick when used for it's proper applications.

Mortars generally have aggregates less than 1/4" with most of the sieve passing 1/8" (for a normal mortar joint of 3/8", but refractory mortars use a much finer aggregate with a designed joint size of 1/8" to 1/16".  For a round oven maximum joints are in the 3/8-1/2" range and that is within the specifications for a manufactured refractory mortar like Heatstop.  ASTM 144 defines the aggregate sizes for ordinary mortar.  Concrete has various sizes of aggregate depending upon the thickness of the placement, but generally no more than 25% of the thickness of the placement.  Normal concrete aggregate will not perform in refractory applications, so you have to use a refractory material like firebrick that has been reduced to the maximum size for the designed placement.  For a 2" placement, 1/4 inch is ideal, but I will use <3/8" but >1/4" for the aggregate.

Larger aggregate=less water, less shrinkage cracking. Sharp aggregate=higher strength.  


Edit-all cementious materials shrink when curing.  The more water, the more they shrink.  Concrete and mortar serve different purposes though, so the requirements are different.  Mortar is NOT concrete.  Concrete should always be placed with the minimum amount of water possible, while mortar should contain the amount of water required to facilitate workability and board life.  The compressive strength requirements of mortar are a magnitude of difference than those required of reinforced concrete.  Mortar generally contains ingredients that give better workability and mitigate the shrinkage, ie lime or limestone.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 11:11:31 PM by Tscarborough »

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #149 on: August 13, 2012, 11:30:14 PM »
Thanks Tom, there is so much more to this than what meets the eye. And your method of explaining things really helps the non-professional, lay person (me) get a better grasp of the detail involved on this build.
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #150 on: August 13, 2012, 11:37:14 PM »
So: do you people see now, why, I selected this guy?  The build is top shelf, and we may need to celebrate with an extra 6-pack of barley pops.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #151 on: August 13, 2012, 11:42:23 PM »
It is confusing prima facie and most architects and engineers do not understand the difference between mortar and concrete.  I have spent the last 20 years working on them in this area, and the number of jobsite meetings to discuss problems dealing with the issue have finally dropped to a manageable level.  Do not get me started on jobsite testing VS lab testing as it relates to ASTM standards though.

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #152 on: August 13, 2012, 11:55:45 PM »
So: do you people see now, why, I selected this guy?  The build is top shelf, and we may need to celebrate with an extra 6-pack of barley pops.
Gene, I don't think your decisions were ever in doubt here in this house....an no doubt ya'll will deserve to celebrate with many barley pops an a few other top shelf items I'm sure.... 8)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #153 on: August 14, 2012, 12:13:05 AM »
It is confusing prima facie and most architects and engineers do not understand the difference between mortar and concrete.  I have spent the last 20 years working on them in this area, and the number of jobsite meetings to discuss problems dealing with the issue have finally dropped to a manageable level.  Do not get me started on jobsite testing VS lab testing as it relates to ASTM standards though.
I have a retired Boston area union mason that works part-time with me at my shop and a friend of his currently does job site concrete testing here in the Research Triangle Park of NC. Your statement above indicates that many owe you a great deal of gratitude,I understand this and that is why I say it is really nice of you to take the time to share your expertise on Gene's build here with everyone....ya jus don't get that everyday folks.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #154 on: August 14, 2012, 09:49:51 AM »
Less talk of mortar and concrete and more work on the oven, please. I'm ready to go to CC and let Gene bake me pizza for a change!  :-D
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #155 on: August 14, 2012, 11:18:55 AM »
Chicago Bob, if your interested, I could sent the company plane to RDU and you can join us in Austin for the party.  But only if you want to...
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #156 on: August 14, 2012, 12:47:32 PM »
Chicago Bob, if your interested, I could sent the company plane to RDU and you can join us in Austin for the party.  But only if you want to...
Well that's down right friendly of you Gene.....has Craig asked you yet if you have lost your mind?! :'(
And do you have a smoking section available on your plane.... 8)
Thanks!
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline RobynB

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #157 on: August 14, 2012, 02:09:25 PM »
Jet_deck said
Quote
It looks very nice, and I can't wait for her to be here.  If I were Robyn's cat, I would sleep in it.

 :-D :-D :-D ;D

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #158 on: August 14, 2012, 02:30:18 PM »
Well that's down right friendly of you Gene.....

Sorry if I made it sound more interesting than what it is,  Southwest Airlines is our company plane... ;D
But your welcome to join the fun.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: I ordered a WFO
« Reply #159 on: August 14, 2012, 02:35:14 PM »
Sorry if I made it sound more interesting than what it is,  Southwest Airlines is our company plane... ;D
But your welcome to join the fun.
I wonder if Southwest allows lizards on their planes....trying to think of a good "Howdy Pard!" gift for Craig... :-*
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

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