How I make my NP dough

[graystones11]

What is the reasoning behind withholding 1/3 of the water until after the dough is mixed for a while? I ask because most of the neapolitan recipes I find, like this one from Vincenzo Iannucci, actually reverse the strategy and say to withhold some of the water until the dough is well kneaded, adding the rest of the water at the end. The logic there is that with a firmer dough, the dough is "worked" more by the dough hook before adding the reserve water at the end to get the ratio right.

Did you get this idea from Jeff Varasano's Famous New York Pizza Recipe?

[TXCraig1]

I don't do that any more. It doesn't accomplish anything.

[Joe_K]

TXCraig1, thank you for all your informative posts on this site. Your pies are always a source of motivation for me.
I attempted your dough process(though dare I say) I used ADY direct in the dough and in a Poolish, as I do not have a culture. Your method of short initial benchtime and long bulk ferment made my dough very strong and extensible while shaping, which is what I have been looking for. What I ended up doing is as follows:
Flour: 75% Giusto 00 %25 KAAP
Water: 62.5%
Salt: 3.0%
ADY: 0.15%

Poolish
10% flour
10% water
0.05% ADY

Mixed Poolish 12hrs in advance
Followed Craig’s dough process, including bulk rest, balling, and 4+ hour RT time

I only got a couple pictures of the six pies I made, but here are the Margherita pies from my WFO

[Joe_K]

Other margherita pie
 

[TXCraig1]

Pretty.

[kurismakku]

Thank you so much for the effort to compile this. I'm using your recipe, this is the first time I'll be making neapoletan pizza dough.

I only have instant dry yeast, do you have any recommendation how much should I use instead of your culture? Also wondering what is the advantage of using Ishia culture, is there any difference in baked pizza results? I live in Southeast Asia, and it's very difficult to find it here, no shop that sells it. Though my goal IS to create an authentic neapoletan pizza so if this is important, I'll have to find a way.

[TXCraig1]

When I use instant yeast in this formula, I use 0.024%. Keep in mind that there are all sorts of factors that can affect how much yeast you need, so some testing a tweaking should be expected to get it exactly how you want it.

There are differences when made with sourdough and baker's yeast however both sourdough and baker's yeast are equally "authentic" as far as the official designation is concerned.

[kurismakku]

Thank you so much Craig. I got one more, a bit unusual question, maybe? As I live in Southeast Asia, and I'm trying to make an authentic NP pie so everyone can enjoy it on this island, I was wondering what adjustments you would suggest considering the room temperature is 28C (82F). There is no AC in the kitchen, only in the bedroom, so it's complicated. What's the temp of the room where you are making your dough?

[TXCraig1]

Just use a bit less yeast and maybe a bit less water, but that's hard to say as your flour may necessatate otherwise. I'd probably start at 60% HR and experiment up and down a couple points to see what works best. I don't think any other changes are necessary.

My typical room temp is 75-77F.

[kurismakku]

Alright, thank you Craig, I'll try that. One more thing, I'm trying to make this work with my fridge, but the temp I'm getting inside with the laser gun is 52F instead of 65F. Can this still work if I change the duration of the dough fermentation in the fridge? Like, is it possible to get the SAME practical result if the duration is converted properly?

This is something I found on the internet:
"Note that times will vary depending on how hot or cold your environment is. For every 17ºF/9ºC raise or drop in dough temperature, your yeast activity will double or decrease by half respectively. So a dough that takes 18 hours to ferment at a 70°F/21°C room temperature, will take only 9 hours when the temperature is raised to 87°F/30°C."

The difference here is 13F, so that would result in around 36 hours of fermentation time at 52F.

[kurismakku]

Here are some results, gonna visit the dough clinic next.  But overall very happy with the first try.
The temp in my fridge is 59F, yet I got a lot of raise in 16 hours. This could be due to the weighting scale that's very cheap and there is no way to weigh 0.4g, so it's possible there is too much yeast.

dough ready for ferment:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/im9a3g6epdznuzb/317820464_1184534802152573_5159229108382106328_n.jpg?dl=0

dough holes:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ir6zvzps5whcpv6/317501544_845214313265581_6008081583147637290_n.jpg?dl=0

The top marker is the center of the dough when I started the fermentation, and the bottom marker is where the dough was touching the edge, so basically, the edges raised only at the moment, while the center is still at the same position:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u0uwl5aptesg4it/317915868_920673858917168_8196561356682582127_n.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjqwoz26rt8gsoy/317884480_561075069185033_8351319935060062748_n.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ck6axefmtm80p9k/317494892_1272751846633570_3237308794217442376_n.jpg?dl=0


Instant yeast - Antimo Caputo Lievito (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) 0.4g

 
Is 120 qt cooler size important or it can be smaller?

[TXCraig1]

Is 120 qt cooler size important or it can be smaller?

Smaller is fine but your temps will be different, so you'll need to test and tweak.

[kurismakku]

Could 5L work as well in your opinion?

I managed to save the balls a bit by shaping them while using some flour, first photo is after 24h of cold ferment after I reshaped them. The second photo is after 8 more hours, the temp of the dough is 11C.

Should I still stick with the original plan of 48h cold ferment in your opinion? How long should the balls rest at room temp (24C?) before I bake them?

EDIT, for the first 2 I baked them after 36 hours, the last 2 will be a bit later, attached results below, thank you once more so great recipe, first time I tried to bake the pizza at 480C and it turned out amazing, we enjoyed the taste  and the texture so much.
 

[TXCraig1]

Could 5L work as well in your opinion?

I managed to save the balls a bit by shaping them while using some flour, first photo is after 24h of cold ferment after I reshaped them. The second photo is after 8 more hours, the temp of the dough is 11C.

Should I still stick with the original plan of 48h cold ferment in your opinion? How long should the balls rest at room temp (24C?) before I bake them?

EDIT, for the first 2 I baked them after 36 hours, the last 2 will be a bit later, attached results below, thank you once more so great recipe, first time I tried to bake the pizza at 480C and it turned out amazing, we enjoyed the taste  and the texture so much.

5L seems kind of small. Did you mean 50L?

When I CF, I like to give the balls at least 2 hours at RT before baking.

[Travinos_Pizza]

So I used what I had around the kitchen and started the process tonight.

Some differences due to necessity:

- I used KA Sir Lancelot flour
- I used IDY
- I dropped the salt to 2.5%

The dough is currently in the sunroom and tomorrow about this time I’ll cut and ball it up. The stretch and folds were satisfying to see it go to smooth.

Perhaps I’m wrong, but I think I could up the hydration and have better results since I’m using the KA flour, but I’m just thinking out loud.

[Travinos_Pizza]

Oh and another thought.

So the bitter winter is here. I will likely be using the steel in the oven rather than the Carbon oven because I just don’t want to be outside 

[Icelandr]

Sorry but this is not what you want to hear, but it looks like early days and more attempts, good times and frustrations ahead. 50 pizzas in, 100 pizzas in, it seems to get easier or more predictable. For every good looking pizza there are sooooooo many that didn’t turn out. Embrace the fun of creating, try to stay more positive than I when the dough, toppings,  bake, look, cornichone, bottom are not what you hoped for! It is fun, each step, creating and improving, oh, and expressing with language frustration that surprises all around you . .  .it is called, I believe passion!
“ hooked” is another term!

[Jackitup]

“ hooked” is another term!

Chasing The Dragon! 😉😊

[kurismakku]

Hi Craig, finally got the cooler, but I think I messed up something, what do you think? https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=78537.0

[TXCraig1]

Hi Craig, finally got the cooler, but I think I messed up something, what do you think? https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=78537.0

I posted my thoughts there.