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Author Topic: Da Michele project in my Pizza Party oven  (Read 4326 times)

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Offline Bashbek

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Re: Da Michele project in my Pizza Party oven
« Reply #60 on: November 21, 2020, 06:10:34 AM »
Looking good!!

Offline thezaman

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Re: Da Michele project in my Pizza Party oven
« Reply #61 on: November 21, 2020, 08:58:27 AM »
thought this might be of intrest.  

Offline thezaman

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Re: Da Michele project in my Pizza Party oven
« Reply #62 on: November 21, 2020, 09:28:21 AM »
another 

Online communist

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Re: Da Michele project in my Pizza Party oven
« Reply #63 on: November 21, 2020, 11:33:15 AM »
When at Da Michele in Florence and Rome over a year ago the crust was not chewy.  It did have a bit of pull to it, but I would think most higher gluten products have that - light, but not cake like.

Offline jsobolew

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Re: Da Michele project in my Pizza Party oven
« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2020, 04:21:54 PM »

From this video, it looks like he is saying the dough is 50% hydration, 3% salt and 0.5% yeast. That hydration seems awfully low though, doesn't seem right to me. The flour looks like Caputo blue bag. He doesn't specify or show what kind of yeast they use. They mix for 40 mins slowly in a machine, ferment at room temp for 24 hours (although he recommends to do this for 12 hours max at home for some reason) and then ball to 300-320g 4-5 hours before use. He uses the term "roll" when referring to opening the dough but I suspect this is a translation error because I do not see a rolling pin, looks opened by hand. They then get a 40 sec bake at 500c.

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Offline scott r

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Re: Da Michele project in my Pizza Party oven
« Reply #65 on: Yesterday at 09:30:17 AM »
he says that this is a recipe "to make a da Michele style pizza at home" so I dont think its what they use there.  I know that they do only use the caputo pizzeria flour without blending in others.

Offline scott r

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Re: Da Michele project in my Pizza Party oven
« Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 10:09:43 AM »
Scott, is there a link to your SP5 spiral mixer and dough?  I would love to talk to you more about your new mixer as I have been toying with the idea of purchasing one for home use.  I'm curious to know what is the smallest batch you can make in it vs the largest.

Chau, im sorry I haven't tried to max this thing out, but its a lot.  You could easily make over 20 da Michele size pizzas in the spiral I bought.   The minimum batch I have made used about 600g of water.  It worked well, but I like the mixing action better if using 800g or more of water though, and I wonder if it might produce a better dough with a larger batch size.  Its called a Famag mixer and they sell them at pleasant hill grains.  I like the smallest spiral sold by Famag as it has the slowest low speed and I like to mix slowly for some doughs, especially lower hydration ones.  Mine has a removable bowl, but there is talk on this and other forums that another mixer Sunmix has a better mixing action.  It does not have a removable bowl, which I find to be something that I really prefer after owning a fixed bowl home spiral before this one.   Member Doughball has the most knowledge about what is happening on the Italian forums and is friends with some famous pizza makers over there.   Before ordering a spiral I would talk to him about the latest on spirals and he may suggest ones that could even be better than the Famag or the sunmix.    I personally am not sure I believe that there is much difference between any of these new breed of countertop spirals, and am very happy with the Famag, as it mixes dough just like the large commercial ones I have used.

Here is a link to the thread where I have pictures of the same high hydration dough mixed by hand and in the spiral that I could not tell apart from each other.   I have done a similar experiment with lower hydration dough and it came out the same... https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=64931.msg637003#msg637003

I have been thinking about revisiting hand mixing lately to see if I can achieve the same soft aerated doughs I see coming from some of commercial mixers.  I think with a bit of patience there is no reason I couldn't.   

As far as im concerned hand mixing is the best practice for home bakers.   You know I have had quite a few different home countertop mixers... kitchen aid, Santos fork, now two different spirals, the Bosch, and the Ankarsrum/AKA Electrolux, DLX, Magic Mill.  I see it happen all the time on this forum that someone buys one of these mixers and then doesn't like it, and I own or owned that mixer and had good luck with it.   I usually find find that the person is using an unrealistically small batch size.   Any mixer tends to work best at close to at least half capacity, if not full capacity.   I think mixers make sense if you entertain a lot and have the occasion to feed a lot of people, but if your just making a few pies for your family the best bet is to just do it by hand.

I'm curious to know what type of high hydration dough you made that require the double hydration method.  Was it a pizza dough? 

Yes, I was making a Mamas too style dough with a good amount of oil, a well developed dough, but made with wild yeast and at a higher hydration than what is used there. I then bake those pizzas in a Detroit style pan with cheese to the edge and its one of my favorite pizzas of all time.  Like most mixers, if you try to go too high with the hydration in the Famag, you have trouble building enough strength into the dough.  It works best if you start with a lower hydration to form some gluten bonds and then bring the hydration up by adding the water a little bit at a time.  Otherwise, you never really build enough strength into the dough and it all just sort of flops around in the mixer not doing much other than heating up.  You can fix that by doing a bunch of stretch and folds later, but sometimes im not around the dough to do that.   I usually start at around 60% hydration and then when it starts looking like a dough and I know structure is there I gradually add the remaining water.   In my Famag I need to do this with any dough thats above about 67% hydration, but it really depends on the flour and how it has been stored.   Sometimes I can get a 70% hydration dough to form nicely without the double hydration method, but usually anything above 70 will definitely need it.   I think this is true of most mixers.... the point at which the double hydration is needed will change, but starting with less water and adding more at the end is usually your friend if your not close to 60% hydration or lower.   You do have to be careful not to add too much water at once, as the emulsion can break and the dough will loose its smooth appearance.  When that has happened to me the dough does not bake up as nicely.   
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:47:47 AM by scott r »

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Da Michele project in my Pizza Party oven
« Reply #67 on: Yesterday at 01:29:02 PM »
Scott r, thank you for your invaluable insight on these different mixers.  I have really been itching to buy one just to make that nice soft supple dough I see online, but I make very small batches of dough.  600gm is my max batch size.  I really appreciate the point you made about mixers wanting bigger batch sizes to maximize their mixing potential.  It makes sense to me.  I think I will hold off and resume my hand mixing experiments shortly.  I have some new ideas I want to test out. 

In the meantime here is my latest pizza from this morning.  I was very pleased with this one.  62% hydration.  60 second bake.  Beautiful and delicious.  It may not be a DM pie, but it's a Chau pie!

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:36:38 PM by Jackie Tran »

Online communist

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Re: Da Michele project in my Pizza Party oven
« Reply #68 on: Yesterday at 02:15:15 PM »
Quite a pie Chau.  I think bakes between 40 to 60 seconds all taste great.  What tomatoes did you use on this one?

Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Da Michele project in my Pizza Party oven
« Reply #69 on: Yesterday at 04:00:36 PM »
Quite a pie Chau.  I think bakes between 40 to 60 seconds all taste great.  What tomatoes did you use on this one?

Thank you Mark.  Lately I have been experimenting with hydration levels of 62-66% and baking between 40 and 60 seconds.   I think my favorites have been at 62% baked at 60seconds for better texture.  The added 20sec of baking allows a bit more cheese melt into the sauce and the rim to dry out a bit more. 

I've been using 6n1's for all my sauces.  Cheap, tasty, easy.  I mill the seeds and skins out and hand blend.  Add a touch of water to get to the right consistency. 

Chau
« Last Edit: Today at 08:30:27 AM by Jackie Tran »

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Online Jackie Tran

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Re: Da Michele project in my Pizza Party oven
« Reply #70 on: Yesterday at 04:06:42 PM »
Same dough as this morning but gave it another 5 hrs of RT proof.  55s bake and the crust was absolutely sublime.  Ignore the cheese.   I was baking for practice so I used a trash cheese I had laying around.  Crust turned out very light. 


   
« Last Edit: Today at 08:32:05 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Icelandr

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Re: Da Michele project in my Pizza Party oven
« Reply #71 on: Yesterday at 04:26:30 PM »
Very Nice looking Pizza, as I look back at the shot of the table full of Margheritas, I donít, as an observer, see much difference, but know that the texture and flavour canít be fitted into a picture. A great looking pizza though, I wish it were mine . .  . .
I still use 7/11 crushed tomatoes, they are easily sourced and I love the flavour. We have tried so many others but keep going back. Please keep up the experiments, I appreciate the thread!
PizzaParty 70x70, saputo floor

Offline thezaman

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Re: Da Michele project in my Pizza Party oven
« Reply #72 on: Today at 10:18:22 AM »
https://s3-media0.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/h8RfRuvtRXs67-kw7XPJZw/o.jpg  looking at the menu their explanation of ingredients shows sunflower oil in the Margherita. I noticed the basil flavor was carried nicely though the whole pizza. wonder if the nitrate oil had something to do with that.

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