Author Topic: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie  (Read 93356 times)

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #375 on: October 25, 2016, 05:35:23 PM »
Harry, perhaps we are using different words to describe the same thing here.  It sounds like there is a consensus that the crust is unique, the crumb is tight, and the slice is very easy to eat.  I would agree that it is soft and almost cake like but again there's light cakes like sponge cakes and then heavier and dense cakes.  To me the crumb is very light in texture and not chewy at all.  Unfortunately I didn't pay attention to the bottom crust.   Can you tell me if it's crunchy at all? If so does it remain crunchy as the slices cool or does the bottom crust soften up?   

TIA
Chau

Offline HarryHaller73

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #376 on: October 25, 2016, 05:58:21 PM »
Harry, perhaps we are using different words to describe the same thing here.  It sounds like there is a consensus that the crust is unique, the crumb is tight, and the slice is very easy to eat.  I would agree that it is soft and almost cake like but again there's light cakes like sponge cakes and then heavier and dense cakes.  To me the crumb is very light in texture and not chewy at all.  Unfortunately I didn't pay attention to the bottom crust.   Can you tell me if it's crunchy at all? If so does it remain crunchy as the slices cool or does the bottom crust soften up?   

TIA
Chau

My niece refers to L&B as Pizza cake.  It's surely not a light sponge cake, but almost like if a denser, moist cake with alot of fat and a bread had a child.   And dense cakes are easy to eat as long as it's moist, the L&B crumb is moist and soft.  There is no chew, it is a really weak gluten that balances the line between bread and dessert item.  To reverse engineer their dough, might have to really think outside the box.  It is positively thin crunch on the bottom.  It stays crunchy, doesn't get soggy.

Attached are some photos.   The crumb on the side looks like bread but it's quite different after one bites into it.


Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #377 on: October 26, 2016, 01:05:22 AM »
Cakey = lots of butter? Cake flour?
Ryan

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #378 on: November 07, 2016, 07:32:48 PM »
Do you think this place still follows an original recipe or do you think it's been modified to reduce costs?
Ryan

Offline mitchjg

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #379 on: November 07, 2016, 08:01:53 PM »
In season 16, episode 14 - Cooks Illustrated/America's Test Kitchen gives a recipe for Thick Crust Sicilian Pizza.

At the beginning of the show, they visit L&B Spumoni Gardens and, at least in theory, the ATK pizza is modeled on the L&B.

I mention this because I noticed that in the last few messages, there is mention of the cake like crumb, etc.  In "Why this recipe works", the Cooks Illustrated people say:

"In order to create a Sicilian pie with a creamy, golden interior and a delicate, crisp bottom, we use a mixture of semolina and all-purpose flours. To give it a fine-textured, almost cake-like crumb, we use a three-pronged approach. We use a generous amount of olive oil in the dough to tenderize it, we cold-ferment the dough overnight to let flavors develop without large bubbles forming, and then we roll it out and weigh it down with another baking sheet during the final proof to keep the crumb even and tight.
"

I have made this recipe and found it to be an excellent pizza.  I have no idea if it is similar or not to L&B.  FWIW, here is the recipe:
https://www.kcet.org/food/weekend-recipe-thick-crust-sicilian-style-pizza

Mitch

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #380 on: November 07, 2016, 08:30:02 PM »
I have made this recipe and found it to be an excellent pizza.  I have no idea if it is similar or not to L&B.  FWIW, here is the recipe:
https://www.kcet.org/food/weekend-recipe-thick-crust-sicilian-style-pizza
Mitch,

That is the recipe I converted to baker's percents at Reply 41 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=45359.msg454606#msg454606

Norma eventually tried the recipe but using General Mills self-rising flour and Caputo semola flour, and reported on her results starting at Reply 82 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=45359.msg455132#msg455132

Peter


Offline norma427

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #381 on: November 07, 2016, 08:36:00 PM »
Mitch,

That is the recipe I converted to baker's percents at Reply 41 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=45359.msg454606#msg454606

Norma eventually tried the recipe but using General Mills self-rising flour and Caputo semola flour, and reported on her results starting at Reply 82 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=45359.msg455132#msg455132

Peter

Peter,

Of course I didn't use the right flour and also didn't use the right amount of semolina.  Maybe another member will try your baker percents version.

Norma

Offline mitchjg

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #382 on: November 07, 2016, 08:37:36 PM »
Thanks Peter.  Here is a thread focussed on this recipe: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=42903.0

I reported my results within the thread (very happy with it!).  I posted several pics there.  Here are a couple:




Mitch

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Offline norma427

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #383 on: November 30, 2016, 10:02:15 PM »
While looking for something else about another pizzeria I found what an article said about L&B's pizzas.  It says the thick crust is pulled out of the oven just shy of being fully cooked through, so the bottom layer is slightly springy in the middle with lightly browned edges.

Maybe that is why I thought the one time I visited L&B Spumoni Gardens that there was a gum line.  I think it would be trickly to know exactly when to pull the pie out of the oven to achieve that slightly springy middle that is just shy of being fully cooked.

Look under photo #2 to see what is said.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/restaurants/photos/best-pizza-restaurants-new-york-city.html

Norma

Offline HarryHaller73

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #384 on: December 07, 2016, 11:32:18 PM »
While looking for something else about another pizzeria I found what an article said about L&B's pizzas.  It says the thick crust is pulled out of the oven just shy of being fully cooked through, so the bottom layer is slightly springy in the middle with lightly browned edges.

Maybe that is why I thought the one time I visited L&B Spumoni Gardens that there was a gum line.  I think it would be trickly to know exactly when to pull the pie out of the oven to achieve that slightly springy middle that is just shy of being fully cooked.

Look under photo #2 to see what is said.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/restaurants/photos/best-pizza-restaurants-new-york-city.html

Norma

To continue on this thread, I believe L&B underbakes their innards while getting browning on the exteriors.   The crumb is undercooked basically.   This most likely has something to do with a 650 degree bake with stacked dough.  5lb of dough per sheet tray is alot.  Most likely a different flour than most NY pizzerias.  Also the round L&B pies tastes like bread, like bread, not pizza.  A history on siclian squares, they originated so I hear within selling hi gluten round pies, but made by the Sicilians cos they preferred it over the round ones that sold alot more than the square ones.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 11:36:00 PM by HarryHaller73 »

Offline nfeldbaum

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #385 on: December 19, 2016, 01:20:30 AM »
Hello,

Am new to this board, and am hoping to recreate the L&B pizza. Is there a post I should look at detailing the best-to-date imitation?

Thank you!

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #386 on: December 21, 2016, 05:42:17 PM »
To continue on this thread, I believe L&B underbakes their innards while getting browning on the exteriors.   The crumb is undercooked basically...

I had my first L&B experience today. The pies were likely influenced by the situation.  My office had several dozen pies delivered from Brooklyn to midtown Manhattan, arriving around 1130am.

It seemed like atleast 60% of the dough (more than the top half) was gummy.

Matt


Offline HarryHaller73

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #387 on: December 21, 2016, 07:17:57 PM »
I had my first L&B experience today. The pies were likely influenced by the situation.  My office had several dozen pies delivered from Brooklyn to midtown Manhattan, arriving around 1130am.

It seemed like atleast 60% of the dough (more than the top half) was gummy.

A delivery from L&B and to midtown will probably take 45 minutes or more and they don't travel too well, but that first pic is pretty spot on. 

Question, what are you peeling there in the second pic?  is that dough or cheese?

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #388 on: December 21, 2016, 07:28:02 PM »
A delivery from L&B and to midtown will probably take 45 minutes or more and they don't travel too well, but that first pic is pretty spot on. 

Question, what are you peeling there in the second pic?  is that dough or cheese?

I'm peeling off the cheese to show the dough. The top part of the pic is cheese, the bottom is dough.
Matt

Offline vtsteve

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #389 on: December 21, 2016, 10:57:56 PM »
It seemed like atleast 60% of the dough (more than the top half) was gummy.

Nasty looking!   :o
In grams we trust.

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #390 on: December 22, 2016, 09:47:41 AM »
I take it you weren't blown away?
Ryan

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #391 on: December 22, 2016, 10:00:59 AM »
I take it you weren't blown away?

I wasn't, and my pizza there was pretty good.
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Offline hammettjr

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #392 on: December 22, 2016, 09:53:23 PM »
I take it you weren't blown away?

Nope. Did have pretty good flavor, but the texture was rough.
Matt


Offline norma427

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Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #393 on: January 14, 2017, 09:46:42 PM »
Another photo to show what looks like the crumb isn't baked very much.

Norma