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Author Topic: Cold fermenting in refridgerator with sourdough  (Read 14964 times)

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Offline R2-Bayou

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Re: Cold fermenting in refridgerator with sourdough
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2013, 01:35:05 PM »
I had something come up right before I was about to bake this weekend, so I had to put everything on hold until later.

64% hydration, 3% active starter. 20 hr bulk room temp fermentation (~72). Balled about 3 hours RT then put the whole flat into the fridge until I could come back to bake about 5 hours later. Normally, these dough balls would have been completely blown out and over fermented by the time I got to them if I left them at RT. The fridge slowed them down perfectly, the balls didn't merge together in the dough tray. I let them warm up for about a half hour at 70 while my LBE warmed up. When I stretched them, they were still a little cold and tricky to open up. Not a deal breaker, but took some getting used to on the first couple. After shaping they had the tell tale signs of little dough air bubbles all over the skins. These were some of the best tasting and best oven spring pies I've made in a while. I was skeptical of the fridge retarding, but it worked great. Granted, it was a short-ish retarding, but it worked great and extended my service window. No pics as I was baking in the middle of the night, but they were great.
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Offline JD

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Re: Cold fermenting in refridgerator with sourdough
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2013, 01:44:21 PM »
Thanks for the update!

I've since stopped using Ischia for my NY pies, but I think I recall going 2 weeks in the fridge with still very good results. The only issue at 2 weeks was poor dough strength, which just meant I had to be much more careful when opening a skin.

Does this produce an optimal pie? Probably not. But if your schedule changes, no need to toss the dough (pun intended)





I had something come up right before I was about to bake this weekend, so I had to put everything on hold until later.

64% hydration, 3% active starter. 20 hr bulk room temp fermentation (~72). Balled about 3 hours RT then put the whole flat into the fridge until I could come back to bake about 5 hours later. Normally, these dough balls would have been completely blown out and over fermented by the time I got to them if I left them at RT. The fridge slowed them down perfectly, the balls didn't merge together in the dough tray. I let them warm up for about a half hour at 70 while my LBE warmed up. When I stretched them, they were still a little cold and tricky to open up. Not a deal breaker, but took some getting used to on the first couple. After shaping they had the tell tale signs of little dough air bubbles all over the skins. These were some of the best tasting and best oven spring pies I've made in a while. I was skeptical of the fridge retarding, but it worked great. Granted, it was a short-ish retarding, but it worked great and extended my service window. No pics as I was baking in the middle of the night, but they were great.
JD's NY Style
JD's Neapolitan using my Pizza Party WFO

You cannot teach experience.

-Josh

Offline DenaliPete

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Re: Cold fermenting in refridgerator with sourdough
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2013, 08:50:46 AM »
Thanks for the update!

I've since stopped using Ischia for my NY pies, but I think I recall going 2 weeks in the fridge with still very good results. The only issue at 2 weeks was poor dough strength, which just meant I had to be much more careful when opening a skin.

Does this produce an optimal pie? Probably not. But if your schedule changes, no need to toss the dough (pun intended)

JD,

What is your protocol now for your new york pies if you're no longer using ischia?

Offline JD

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Re: Cold fermenting in refridgerator with sourdough
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2013, 10:03:14 AM »
JD,

What is your protocol now for your new york pies if you're no longer using ischia?

I use 0.5 teaspoon ADY per 700grams final doughball weight. I don't have a scale that accurately measures that low, but I haven't had any issues with using volume.
 
Mix using this method which I am very happy with: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,24265.msg252106.html#msg252106

Cold ferment in fridge 2-3 days, simple punch down every 24 hours or as needed, and a tight reball 24 hours before bake. 3 day fridge ferment is my preferred timeframe, but 2 is good, 1 is a bit early.

As far as bake times & temps, I'm probably the only one here happy with a lower temp bake using steel: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23608.msg239730.html#msg239730


This past weekend I made a simple NY cheese pie (amongst 6 others), and my guests claimed it was way better than anything local. Of course, they're not from NY so they are probably not the best judges. I am from NY though, and I couldn't be happier with my efforts after a few years of experimenting.

JD's NY Style
JD's Neapolitan using my Pizza Party WFO

You cannot teach experience.

-Josh

Offline Rick_F

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Re: Cold fermenting in refridgerator with sourdough
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2017, 02:32:56 PM »
Am I late to the party???  Please pardon my extreme tardiness, and I hope I am not being redundant as there may be other threads in this website which may also explain why JD's dough had yeast leavening 14 days later.

There are probably millions of different strains of yeast in the environment, all with different optimum temperatures for their specific "thriving" conditions.  Some of them share this optimum temperature with each other, and some of them differ greatly.  What you feed the yeasts matter too, and many other factors as well, but we'll stick to temperature.

For example, in beer I sometimes enjoy a lager style beer which is "cold fermented" at the low 40's not because beer can't be brewed at other temps, but because if you want a clear, crisp, somewhat mild flavored final product then one of the many varietals of the lager yeast will be your ideal helper, and if you want that strain to be the the dominant yeast (because there certainly are other yeasts present as well, just in smaller numbers), then the conditions "it" likes should be sustained.
Other times I enjoy an Ale style beer which has more character, darker appearance, stronger, more pronounced flavors.  The yeasts that produce the by-products which determine these characteristics enjoy temperatures in the high 60's. 
One time I was brewing a Belgian style Ale (with one of the many, many strains of yeasts), and the instructions in the recipe were incorrect for temperature.  I was 10 degrees too high and it produced some terrible flavors, not from the Belgian yeast but from "another" yeast that enjoyed 80 degrees, and let me tell you it certainly "thrived"!.

JD's refrigerated dough was too cold for the ischia strain, but not too cold for another yeast (probably a lager type, if you wanted to make an assumption).  5 days was not enough for "that" yeast to reproduce enough of the wonderful by-products, but 14 days sounds about right.  The ischia activity was probably near a complete stop during the whole time.  By the way, an ale brews much faster than a lager because activity slows down at colder temps.

No mutation of the strains is happening, only the dominance of another strain is being observed.

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