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Author Topic: Looking for a Neo-new York recipe  (Read 420 times)

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Offline yarbrough462

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Looking for a Neo-new York recipe
« on: December 04, 2017, 01:38:08 AM »
I have been cooking both New York and Neopolitan style pies with decent success.  My formulas are below for each.  I am trying to work out something in between.  I am cooking in a wood fired oven (Pizza Party).  I want a super light crust that still has a little crunch to it.  The egg shell effect is the best way to describe it with a very airy rim.  As of now, when I do my New York, it is too crispy and doesn't have that soft, airy center and my Neo is way too soft with very little outer crunch...Both are probably decent examples of their respective style but I am looking for something in between.  Any advice from those of you that have had some success with this style will be greatly appreciated!

Neo (24 hour RT ferment 18/6, 65-68 degrees):
Wood fired oven at 850 degree floor temp, Saputo stone
920 grams Caputo 00 (I live in Italy so it is cheap...Not sold on it...)
565 grams cold water
25 grams salt
.4 grams IDY

New York (72 hour CF, all in balls):
Wood fired oven at 750 on a cordierite stone
960 grams KABF
585 grams cold water
20 grams salt
20 grams oil
1.54 grams IDY
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 06:07:13 AM by yarbrough462 »

Offline jsaras

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Re: Looking for a Neo-new York recipe
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 08:53:19 AM »
I room ferment my NY dough at room temp (using the same fermentation process that you use for your Neapolitan dough) and I get great crusts.  I don't often use oil and I've used hydrations from 61-63% very successfully with KABF. 

Another big factor in this is how much the dough is mixed and your stretching technique.
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Offline yarbrough462

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Re: Looking for a Neo-new York recipe
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2017, 09:50:47 AM »
I room ferment my NY dough at room temp (using the same fermentation process that you use for your Neapolitan dough) and I get great crusts.  I don't often use oil and I've used hydrations from 61-63% very successfully with KABF. 

Another big factor in this is how much the dough is mixed and your stretching technique.

Thanks.  I will try a room ferment on the New York pie.  My mixing technique is pretty standard. I use a Bosch Universal.  I put all the water, IDY and salt and mix well.  Next I add the flour and mix just to combine.  I then cover for thirty minutes.  After the rest, I mix just until it is completely combined.  I then ball and scale it and put it in the fridge.  When I am ready to use it, I bring it out for one or two hours.  I open it the way my buddy that owns a pizzeria here taught me.  It is very evenly stretched with a decent sized rim.  I have his recipe and can make a reasonable approximation of it but, I want to learn to make a similar pie with products I can get easily in the States.     
 

« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 09:52:54 AM by yarbrough462 »

Offline CaptBob

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Re: Looking for a Neo-new York recipe
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2017, 12:58:20 PM »
What you describe sounds very similar to the pies I make. I use Caputo Pizzeria as well. A couple of things you could try without changing your recipe or workflow would be to brush avocado oil on the rim pre bake and then shoot for about a 2 to 2 1/2 minute bake at around 720 to 750. I do both of those things and consistently achieve the results you described. Let us know how things go!
Bob

Offline yarbrough462

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Re: Looking for a Neo-new York recipe
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2017, 01:03:01 PM »
Here are a couple of my pies for reference:

« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 01:07:22 PM by yarbrough462 »

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Offline mitchjg

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Re: Looking for a Neo-new York recipe
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2017, 01:15:14 PM »
What you describe sounds very similar to the pies I make. I use Caputo Pizzeria as well. A couple of things you could try without changing your recipe or workflow would be to brush avocado oil on the rim pre bake and then shoot for about a 2 to 2 1/2 minute bake at around 720 to 750. I do both of those things and consistently achieve the results you described. Let us know how things go!

I am not sure I get what you are looking for but I think I also do something similar to what you seek.  The majority of my bakes are in a WFO and the temperature is usually around 700 (maybe up to 750, at most).  Malted flour (like KABF) browns too quickly and can burn at those temps.  Caputo alone will end up too crackery for me since it really shines over 800.

I go in between.  Typically, I use about 62% hydration and about 50-70% KA flour and 50-30% Caputo.  This blend, I believe makes it easier for me to manage the dough at the temperature range I work at.  The thickness factor is usually around 0.08.

They always bake at around 2:20 - 3:00 minutes.  I generally find closer to 3 minutes is about right for me.  Some crisp on the bottom and the rim but still good puff and softness on the inside.  For more chewy, I use KABF, for less chewy, I use KAAP in the mix.  Sometimes I blend those when I am indecisive and overly precise.

Usually a 24-30 hour room temperature sourdough but commercial yeast works great too (my consumers prefer the SD).

The other thing is you may want to read through "How to get rid of the water" (don't be put off by the name of the thread - not really what it is mostly about).  In particular, Brian Spangler (sfpanky), owner of Apizza Scholls in Oregon shares his workflow and recipe.  I have not eaten there but several members have - lots of kudos.  The reason I point there is that he bakes at about 700 and the pies are somewhat New Yorky but are not.  I have made his recipe in my WFO several times and always enjoyed it.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11994.0  Although it gets updated and changed as you read through the thread, the basic recipe starts showing up on page 3 and 4 of the thread.

This is probably typical for me:

« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 01:18:49 PM by mitchjg »
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Offline yarbrough462

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Re: Looking for a Neo-new York recipe
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2017, 01:19:25 PM »
I am not sure I get what you are looking for but I think I also do something similar to what you seek.  The majority of my bakes are in a WFO and the temperature is usually around 700 (maybe up to 750, at most).  Malted flour (like KABF) browns too quickly and can burn at those temps.  Caputo alone will end up too crackery for me since it really shines over 800.

I go in between.  Typically, I use about 62% hydration and about 50-70% KA flour and 50-30% Caputo.  This blend, I believe makes it easier for me to manage the dough at the temperature range I work at.  The thickness factor is usually around 0.08.

They always bake at around 2:20 - 3:00 minutes.  I generally find closer to 3 minutes is about right for me.  Some crisp on the bottom and the rim but still good puff and softness on the inside.  For more chewy, I use KABF, for less chewy, I use KAAP in the mix.  Sometimes I blend those when I am indecisive and overly precise.

Usually a 24-30 hour room temperature sourdough but commercial yeast works great too (my consumers prefer the SD).

The other thing is you may want to read through "How to get rid of the water" (don't be put off by the name of the thread - not really what it is mostly about).  In particular, Brian Spangler (sfpanky), owner of Apizza Scholls in Oregon shares his workflow and recipe.  I have not eaten there but several members have - lots of kudos.  The reason I point there is that he bakes at about 700 and the pies are somewhat New Yorky but are not.  I have made his recipe in my WFO several times and always enjoyed it.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11994.0  Although it gets updated and changed as you read through the thread, the basic recipe starts showing up on page 3 and 4 of the thread.

Thanks.  I'll take a look at the thread.  Care to share your recipe and flour blend?  I am almost positive this is where the answer lies.  Both pies I make look similar.  It's the crunch, or lack thereof, and mouthfeel that separate them.

Offline CaptBob

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Re: Looking for a Neo-new York recipe
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2017, 01:27:27 PM »
As Mitch mentioned, I also use a version of the Spangler/Scholls recipe/workflow.....
Bob

Offline mitchjg

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Re: Looking for a Neo-new York recipe
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2017, 01:32:35 PM »
I mix it up from one bake to the next - if nothing else, to entertain myself.  I usually post my pizza in the Daily Update thread.  Here are some to look at.  I point at them not only for you to see if that is what you may want & how they change from moment to moment,  but I always include the recipe.  But, do ask me for any details you may want.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.msg451066#msg451066
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.msg456572#msg456572
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.msg492802#msg492802
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26286.msg498828#msg498828
Mitch

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Offline mitchjg

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Re: Looking for a Neo-new York recipe
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2017, 01:56:38 PM »
As Mitch mentioned, I also use a version of the Spangler/Scholls recipe/workflow.....

And, they always always look outstanding!
Mitch

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Offline CaptBob

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Re: Looking for a Neo-new York recipe
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2017, 02:01:13 PM »
Thank you Mitch!
Bob

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