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Author Topic: % of starter in sourdough pizza  (Read 2037 times)

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Online mitchjg

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Re: % of starter in sourdough pizza
« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2017, 09:17:36 PM »
very happy with the flavor of the 10% sd starter, 60 % hydration left overnight in bulk at 72 deg. made dough balls and those rested for a few hours before baking. still looking for a bit more puff in the corniccione so will increase hydration to 65%

Sounds terrific, really glad you are making happy progress!  :chef:

I think trying 65% is just fine.  You may find it more difficult to handle as you move up.  Neapolitan dough, especially, gets very extensible/floppy.   

Alternatively, it may be just a matter of waiting a bit longer before baking and/or more gentle handling of the corniccione. 

Got any pics??
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 09:22:35 PM by mitchjg »
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Offline hotsawce

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Re: % of starter in sourdough pizza
« Reply #61 on: December 03, 2017, 10:36:26 PM »
Yes, and you're way ahead of the curve (as was Jim Lahey.) "Minimally mixed" and "hand mixed" doughs are coming back into fashion right now as an alternative mixing method touting the benefits of not oxidizing the flour. Minimal handling/shaping is also something I'm seeing a lot of.

I do have to say, when I work in larger batches I worry about flour clumping and leaving dry spots/little pebbles throughout the dough.

Baker Yohan Ferrant has a "do nothing" bread with an extremely low inoculation of starter. Similar to your recipe, he uses "1% leaven," so not that far off. The new Sullivan Street Bakery book is basically Jim's no-knead method with starter (but a large amount of starter in a short period of time.)

And, a little off topic, if pizzas with a 24+ hour ferment don't need intense mixing, do you think the double-hydration method in roman al taglio and the high hydration "canotto" (sammarco/bonetta) pizza is unnecessary? Would they be better off doing a light mix and letting it sit to hydrate naturally? My instinct is that it should work, as it works with most bread....

I think it's a waste of time for pizza with a 24 hour+ ferment. It was developed as a way to shorten mixing time to avoid excess oxidation of the dough in commercial bakeries. With a 24 hour ferment, you really don't need much of any mixing time, so you definitely don't need autolyse.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 11:13:20 PM by hotsawce »

Offline yarbrough462

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Re: % of starter in sourdough pizza
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2017, 01:18:35 AM »
Sounds like with all the expert advice he's getting things are going great.

Smart move...

?  Looks like Craig's help has him moving in the right direction...

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=49654.100

Offline Jr07

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Re: % of starter in sourdough pizza
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2017, 09:18:33 AM »
Sounds terrific, really glad you are making happy progress!  :chef:

I think trying 65% is just fine.  You may find it more difficult to handle as you move up.  Neapolitan dough, especially, gets very extensible/floppy.   

Alternatively, it may be just a matter of waiting a bit longer before baking and/or more gentle handling of the corniccione. 

Got any pics??

Online mitchjg

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Re: % of starter in sourdough pizza
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2017, 10:47:44 AM »
Lotsa leoparding on that rim! 

It is hard to tell how much "puff" you are getting in the rim.  Maybe next time, show off a "crumb shot" so we can see what is going on inside the rim.

It looks like the sauce is pretty uneven - maybe really thick?  There are spots that look very bare and others where it is pretty heavy.  It does not need to be uniform everywhere but I suspect you would benefit from thinning out the sauce to be able to spread it more evenly.

When you open the dough up for dressing and baking, do you strive to leave the rim undisturbed so as not to push out the air in there?
Mitch

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Offline Jr07

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Re: % of starter in sourdough pizza
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2017, 11:28:54 AM »
Thanks! Yes I have thought about going for a thinner sauce and add less. On this one I went for the can of miur glenn crushed tomatoes but they are actually chunks.. im hesistant to put those in a blender to avoid it turning orange. I add some dried oregano, salt and 2 spoons of the oil I use to confit my garlic. Sauce tastes great but the texture I wish was smoother. Perhaps I need to use the can of puree instead.

Yes I leave the ourter rim as intact as possible. Next time though I also want to avoid the sauce touching it so perhaps just go until 80 % of the entire area or so.

Another big wildcard I have right now is that the exact same dough, baked 30 min later turned out very different.., less leoparding. Im assuming 30 min at room temp after being in the fridge overnight has an impact. So tricky to manage!
J

Online mitchjg

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Re: % of starter in sourdough pizza
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2017, 11:33:10 AM »
Thanks! Yes I have thought about going for a thinner sauce and add less. On this one I went for the can of miur glenn crushed tomatoes but they are actually chunks.. im hesistant to put those in a blender to avoid it turning orange. I add some dried oregano, salt and 2 spoons of the oil I use to confit my garlic. Sauce tastes great but the texture I wish was smoother. Perhaps I need to use the can of puree instead.

Yes I leave the ourter rim as intact as possible. Next time though I also want to avoid the sauce touching it so perhaps just go until 80 % of the entire area or so.

Another big wildcard I have right now is that the exact same dough, baked 30 min later turned out very different.., less leoparding. Im assuming 30 min at room temp after being in the fridge overnight has an impact. So tricky to manage!
J

Regarding the chunkiness and the risk of orange yuck:   I use a stick blender and always make sure that the end of the blender is submerged in the sauce so as not to introduce air.  Just a few very short buzzes around the bowl breaks it all up very nicely without even a tinge of orange!!

On the rest, very interested in what advice Craig will have here.

Mitch

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: % of starter in sourdough pizza
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2017, 04:07:45 PM »
I don't like much of the way of chunks in NP sauce. You can easily use a blender to make sauce without making orange (oil) or pink (air) slime - just use very quick pulses with a second or so in between. Definitely DO NOT add the oil until after the tomatoes are fully chopped and then incorporate it by hand - never incorporate the oil with a blender - that's a straight shot to orange slime. My favorite is a food mill, but a stick blender is also an excellent alternative (same as with the blender - never use the stick blender after you add oil.

Puree can make a good sauce if you find a good puree. I use it on other styles from time to time. I like crushed tomatoes a lot. I find them generally the sweetest. My guess is that they crush the tomatoes that are too ripe to peel. That being said, they crush the whole things, and I can't stand skin bits in my NP sauce. I like them on other styles; just not NP.

I generally open my dough to about 80% of the final size, top, then either drag it to the peel (which stretches it) or finish stretching on the peel. I take the sauce pretty close to the cornicione when topping, however after the final stretch, it's probably 10-20% unsauced around the edge.
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Offline Loarina Vega

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Re: % of starter in sourdough pizza
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2017, 04:13:32 PM »
I don't like much of the way of chunks in NP sauce. You can easily use a blender to make sauce without making orange (oil) or pink (air) slime - just use very quick pulses with a second or so in between. Definitely DO NOT add the oil until after the tomatoes are fully chopped and then incorporate it by hand - never incorporate the oil with a blender - that's a straight shot to orange slime. My favorite is a food mill, but a stick blender is also an excellent alternative (same as with the blender - never use the stick blender after you add oil.

Puree can make a good sauce if you find a good puree. I use it on other styles from time to time. I like crushed tomatoes a lot. I find them generally the sweetest. My guess is that they crush the tomatoes that are too ripe to peel. That being said, they crush the whole things, and I can't stand skin bits in my NP sauce. I like them on other styles; just not NP.

I generally open my dough to about 80% of the final size, top, then either drag it to the peel (which stretches it) or finish stretching on the peel. I take the sauce pretty close to the cornicione when topping, however after the final stretch, it's probably 10-20% unsauced around the edge.
   these are important tips that I didn't even know..Your experience is really helpful Thanks..! I will go and purchase one of those stick immersion blenders

Offline Jr07

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Re: % of starter in sourdough pizza
« Reply #69 on: December 05, 2017, 10:36:16 PM »
thanks!

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