Author Topic: Dough ball temperature after 24 hrs in fridge  (Read 1336 times)

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Offline mililani

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Dough ball temperature after 24 hrs in fridge
« on: July 01, 2013, 04:01:02 PM »
Hi folks,

I did some searches and can't find the answer to my question.  I was wondering, is there a proper dough ball temperature that I should be aiming for during cold ferments?  I mean, is there a temperature considered TOO cold or too warm?  I just checked my dough ball after being in the fridge for 24 hours, and it's reading under 40F.  I'm thinking that's way too cold.  Any thoughts?

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Dough ball temperature after 24 hrs in fridge
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2013, 04:47:09 PM »
Mil;
The key to effective dough management is the temperature of the dough after mixing. In a home setting there are so many variables involved that it is impossible to give a hard and fast temperature. As a rule, 70 to 75F temperature immediately after mixing should work well for you BUT in the end, you will need to experiment to find the temperature that works best for you using your own specific dough management procedure and fridge as well as dough containers, etc. The temperature of the dough ball(s) after 24-hours in the fridge only reflects the temperature of your fridge, and 40F is right at about where I would expect it to be. When using a refrigerated dough management procedure, I think it is best to keep the dough at a temperature slightly below 45F, but do not allow it to drop to freezing (32F). The main thing is to be consistent in always having the same dough temperature off of the mixer, and then using the same management times and placing the dough into the fridge in the same location. Like in real estate, location counts in dough management too.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline mililani

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Re: Dough ball temperature after 24 hrs in fridge
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2013, 05:33:10 PM »
Much thanks, Doc!

Offline carl333

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Re: Dough ball temperature after 24 hrs in fridge
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2017, 02:30:31 PM »
Mil;
The key to effective dough management is the temperature of the dough after mixing. In a home setting there are so many variables involved that it is impossible to give a hard and fast temperature. As a rule, 70 to 75F temperature immediately after mixing should work well for you BUT in the end, you will need to experiment to find the temperature that works best for you using your own specific dough management procedure and fridge as well as dough containers, etc. The temperature of the dough ball(s) after 24-hours in the fridge only reflects the temperature of your fridge, and 40F is right at about where I would expect it to be. When using a refrigerated dough management procedure, I think it is best to keep the dough at a temperature slightly below 45F, but do not allow it to drop to freezing (32F). The main thing is to be consistent in always having the same dough temperature off of the mixer, and then using the same management times and placing the dough into the fridge in the same location. Like in real estate, location counts in dough management too.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Tom/others,

I haven't really been giving it much thought or practice with finished dough temperatures. My dough management procedure from the time the dough starts its mix right to finish is all over the place. Ice water, water from the tap, different mixing regimes, Maybe a S & F or 2....and finally then my dough goes to rest in the fridge.

I've been scratching my head wondering if there is more to a finished dough's temperature other than the optimum window of time to use the dough from the fridge. Is it as simple to think that a finished dough temp of say 60F will have a longer shelf life in the fridge as opposed to a finished dough of 80F? Is there anything else that substantiates the ideal finished dough temp of 70-75Fas suggested?
Carl

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Dough ball temperature after 24 hrs in fridge
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2017, 12:24:21 AM »
The warmer the dough is coming off of the mixer the longer it will take to cool it down in the fridge to a temperature where fermentation will progress at a suitably slow rate to allow the dough to be held for several days in the cooler to develop the unique flavors of cold fermentation and develop the desired biochemical gluten development. Typically this temperature is about 40F +/- 2F.  If the dough is too warm it will continue to ferment and also the heat of metabolism will enter into the picture to further increase the dough temperature at a rate of about 1F per hour so what you actually end up with is a dough which is essentially warm fermented as opposed to cold fermented. This can/will result in potentially excessive acid production by the yeast which can then degrade the flour proteins (gluten) during the refrigerated holding period resulting in anything from less than stellar dough performance, to collapse or difficulty developing the desired finished crust color due to the acidity of the dough blocking the browning reaction. If the dough is too cold coming off of the mixer the most common result is insufficient fermentation resulting in a tough dough which can exhibit excessive memory characteristics while attempting to open the dough into skins, or a lack of flavor and if your dough has sugar in it it might even develop crust color too fast resulting in a short bake time which ends up leading to a finished crust lacking body or which doesn't retain crispiness. It should be noted that I have said many times "Without temperature control you cannot have effective dough management" What this means is that while different dough management techniques will call for different finished dough temperatures, the goal should be to have consistency in that temperature whatever it might be. The correct finished dough temperature is not specific, but instead it is highly variable greatly dependent upon many different factors not the least of which are dough formulation, type of mixer and mixing time, shop/room temperature, efficiency of the fridge/cooler, amount of dough going into the fridge/cooler at any one time, type of container used to hold the dough and construction material, dough mass (bulk or individual dough balls), shape/thickness of the dough as it is placed into the cooler/fridge for cold fermentation, the list just goes on and on. Over the years I've been able to draw some rough temperature estimates for finished dough temperature: Commercial pizzeria with large walk-in cooler: 80 to 85F, with a reach-in cooler: 70 to 75F; Home made pizza dough: 70 to 75F for just a couple of dough balls or 65 to 70F if there will be more than three dough balls or the dough balls weigh 16-ounces or more. The idea is to try to get the dough temperature down to 50F in 2.5-hours for up to 3-days refrigerated storage time or 45F for up to 5 to 7-days storage time. Remember, these are just very rough numbers as some individuals are targeting very specific flavor characteristics which might only be achieved with significantly more fermentation so now all cards are off of the table, but again, what ever finished dough temperature you are targeting and whatever temperature you are looking for after 2.5-hours in the cooler/fridge, you will find it hard to replicate the finished crust unless you can replicate the conditions under which you made it and that means  consistency in temperature control.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough ball temperature after 24 hrs in fridge
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2017, 07:44:20 PM »
I've been scratching my head wondering if there is more to a finished dough's temperature other than the optimum window of time to use the dough from the fridge. Is it as simple to think that a finished dough temp of say 60F will have a longer shelf life in the fridge as opposed to a finished dough of 80F? Is there anything else that substantiates the ideal finished dough temp of 70-75Fas suggested?
Carl,

I, too, wondered over the years what was so special about a finished dough temperature of around 80-85 degrees F for a commercial operation, or a lesser range for home situation with a standard refrigerator. Of course, I knew that that the finished dough temperature was related to other factors besides water temperature and the cooler/refrigerator temperature, such as the amount of yeast used and the intended fermentation window that flowed out of those factors, and that balancing these factors was a component of a successful outcome. But, it wasn't until I saw Table 4 at http://www.theartisan.net/dough_fermentation_and_temperature.htm that I thought that table was possibly a credible explanation of the science behind the finished dough temperature. Much later, I saw an opportunity to ask Tom about that, at Reply 10 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=43458.msg435426;topicseen#msg435426, but it appears that Tom did not see my post.

Peter


Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Dough ball temperature after 24 hrs in fridge
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2017, 09:15:34 PM »
Carl/Peter;
I went back into the link provided by Peter and offered my comments.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline carl333

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Re: Dough ball temperature after 24 hrs in fridge
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 02:49:57 PM »
Thanks guys, another variable to deal with as if we pizza makers don't have enough!  ;D So for the most part and to condense this for home dough makers who cold ferment, try to aim for a finished dough temp of  dough temp 70-75F, get it to about 40 as quickly as you can (use the freezer if you have for 30 minutes or so for large qtys or if your above the sweet spot of 70-75F).

I now understand why my mix of 30 dough balls in a commercial mixer (from a friend who has a restaurant) using  RT water followed by a beer break, balling and then finally into the home fridge for a cold ferment for 3 days ended up in the trash. Well after 3 days in CF and 8 hours before the event, I went to the fridge confidently to check on the dough to see if it had doubled in rise. The bags that I had loosely twist locked had all exploded open and probably quadrupled in size. I frantically had to mix several batches of emergency dough in my Kitchen Aid. Lessons learned. I sure I have had finished dough temps of 85-90F in the past not realizing how detrimental this could actually be for cold ferments.

Carl