Author Topic: Exploring opening a small pizzeria  (Read 918 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline starhob

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15
  • I Love Pizza!
Exploring opening a small pizzeria
« on: July 25, 2016, 06:24:53 AM »
Hello,
I am exploring opening a pop up pizzeria in Singapore.  I have followed a couple of recipie in this forum and have fairly decent outcome in a home oven.

As rental in Singapore is not cheap, I would like to know a little bit more what is the typical margin one could expect from selling a pie from pure raw material cost perspective without factoring utilities, rent, wages etc.

There are a couple of franchise here selling by the slice but I don't think business is that great but I may be wrong.

I am hoping to cater to business lunch crowd in central business district with perhaps tie in with some food delivery company for delivery.

Would be great if someone can give me a rough idea how much would a small pop up pizzeria set up cost (oven, fridge, trays, warmer, etc)

For a single person manning the shop, how many pies can be churned out an hour and if there are any ways to increase output especially during rush hour?

Hope to get some pointers from the experts here. Thanks in advance.

Offline Andrew Bellucci

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 170
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
  • Questioning authority since 1971
    • AndrewBellucci.com
Re: Exploring opening a small pizzeria
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2016, 11:48:56 PM »
This isn't the answer that you want, but Singapore is extremely expensive, very fickle in food tastes and overrated as a food center. Impossible now to hire reasonably priced foreign workers , new wage law came on the books a few months ago. Locals there won't apply for food service and wouldn't be affordable anyway.  It's also not a pizza town.  We had several opportunities presented to us, ran the numbers and ran away.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 08:57:40 AM by Andrew Bellucci »
Pie Man
Patriot
Anarchist

Offline starhob

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Exploring opening a small pizzeria
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2016, 08:06:08 PM »
Thank you Andrew for your response.  I was reading through your chronicle on your adventures in KL.  Looks like you are doing very well and having a lot of fun there.

I am not really looking at something of your kind of scale at KL. Very much smaller and possibly a one man operation pizzeria to curb the wage cost that you have mentioned.

Target customer as I mentioned will primarily be lunch crowd in the business district.

My key concern for viability would be volume output over a 2-3 hour peak period.  I presumed i would have to do par bake of the crust in advance in order to meet the volume demand.

With a small setup, I guess I would have to use those conveyor ovens which I have seen 2 chains using locally as opposed to deck oven.

I read the specs for some of the conveyor models and they seem to be only able to do 25 pies an hour.

If you would be able to share the approximate margin for per pie from just ingredients perspective, it will give me a number that I would be able to crunch on to figure out the numbers I need to achieve and if I would be constrained by the oven output.

I have been to KL a couple of times and trust I will drop by your shop the next time I am there.

Cheers!

Offline Andrew Bellucci

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 170
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
  • Questioning authority since 1971
    • AndrewBellucci.com
Re: Exploring opening a small pizzeria
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2016, 11:27:35 PM »
Hi,

When you mention two other SG companies, I'm sure one is Pezzo. They have tight, kiosk operations with a conveyor belt and 4-5 employees total per kiosk.  Smart operation, mediocre pizza. But SEA ain't NY and most people don't care and quite of few buy only on price, not quality. Beware of Pezzo, they're starting major expansion next year, money already in place.

Contractually, I can't disclose our food costs. But figure an average across the board of 50 cents US per slice (on an 18in, 8 slice pie $4). That includes dough, cheese, sauce, topping.  That's with a $1 = 4rm conversion.

Let me know if you're in Kl. I'd be happy to meet with you.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 11:33:02 PM by Andrew Bellucci »
Pie Man
Patriot
Anarchist

Offline starhob

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Exploring opening a small pizzeria
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2016, 05:08:28 AM »
Thanks Andrew.

You are right one of the chain is Pezzo and you are also spot on that their pies are mediocre.  They seems to be on a huge expansion spree and there are no less than 12 outlet mainly in malls with high foot traffic.  But I don't think they are doing that well.

You are also right about people being price sensitive but I believe people would still pay good price if the product are good.

The other one is Proofer and they started off as a French bakery and have recently started doing pizza by slice.  They have lesser number of stores and they sell a smaller 10" pie and I think their pies are slightly better then Pezzo.  They are also using the type of conveyor chain oven like pezzo.

The cost number you have provided seems a bit low but I believe most food business needs to have at least 50% margins on ingredients cost alone to be viable since rhe other cost components like wage and rental are really expensive in Singapore.


Looks like I have to do more research on how to churn out large volumes without  sacrificing quality  during peak hours for the type of operation that I have in mind.  I believe par bake crust well in advance during off peak to prepare for the surge would be the strategy to adopt.

Thanks again and trust that I will buzz you the next time when I head up north.  If you don't mind, I might try to get your supplier contact and see I could use them if I decide to go ahead with the shop plans. 

Btw, Malaysia seems to have become sort of a cowboy town of late with the scary gun trotting bike gang assassination that happened yesterday.  I saw the video yesterday and was really shocked.  I hope the local authorities would be able to crack the case and arrest those guys soon.

Anyway, thanks so much again for the advice. Really appreciate it.






Offline Andrew Bellucci

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 170
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
  • Questioning authority since 1971
    • AndrewBellucci.com
Re: Exploring opening a small pizzeria
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2016, 08:21:11 PM »


The cost number you have provided seems a bit low but I believe most food business needs to have at least 50% margins on ingredients cost alone to be viable since rhe other cost components like wage and rental are really expensive in Singapore.

The cost number is low because I review our costs every single day.  The moment a vendor raises a price, no matter how insignificantly, they are contacted.  The price of cheese, which is our biggest expense,  is locked in for six months.  We use Saputo and get it for 22rm a kilo. That should be your benchmark.

One more thing:. Many operators focus on food cost, fixed costs and wages.  We have a 4th category that is very important to us and that's "costs of goods sold".  That covers the takeaway products, napkins, condiments on the tables, etc. Obviously this number slides according to sales.  Very important to know this number and keep it down.  These costs can really add up especially if you're using branded paper items. Very important to figure this in as a subset to true delivery cost as well.

Just something to think about. . .
Pie Man
Patriot
Anarchist


Offline starhob

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Exploring opening a small pizzeria
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2016, 09:05:30 PM »
The cost number is low because I review our costs every single day.  The moment a vendor raises a price, no matter how insignificantly, they are contacted.  The price of cheese, which is our biggest expense,  is locked in for six months.  We use Saputo and get it for 22rm a kilo. That should be your benchmark.

One more thing:. Many operators focus on food cost, fixed costs and wages.  We have a 4th category that is very important to us and that's "costs of goods sold".  That covers the takeaway products, napkins, condiments on the tables, etc. Obviously this number slides according to sales.  Very important to know this number and keep it down.  These costs can really add up especially if you're using branded paper items. Very important to figure this in as a subset to true delivery cost as well.

Just something to think about. . .
Thank you Andrew once again for your invaluable feedback.

I saw your other thread about your accident and hope you are getting better now.

Take care!