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Author Topic: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough  (Read 9406 times)

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Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2013, 10:45:33 PM »
I agree and disagree. It didn't take me very long and I would call it quite simple, but that was after doing research before ever buying an ingredient and using all the information here. This forum literally saved me probably hundreds of dollars and tens of hours in poor pizza making. This site allows it to be "simple" if you're ok with following recipes and halfwayI decent in a kitchen its pretty easy to use others formulas that they labored over perfecting. I know that's what I did. It depends on if you count all the time I spent reading and researching (which was quite extensive because I didn't wanna go through too much trial and error). If you do it wasn't simple at all. If you don't then pizza came fairly naturally to me then.

This is a good question. I have been making pizza for probably close to 20 years. I had a steep learning curve with many disasters and cuss words. But along the way, and sometimes early on, I did make some really good pizzas. I think the thing that is hard is doing it consistently, being able to make a great pizza whenever you want, no matter what the weather, your equipment limitations, etc.  That is what requires mastery. You can't get that kind of mastery until you have been at it for a good long time. Or you are a pizza genius. 

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TinRoof

Offline stegosaurus!

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2013, 11:07:09 PM »
This is a good question. I have been making pizza for probably close to 20 years. I had a steep learning curve with many disasters and cuss words. But along the way, and sometimes early on, I did make some really good pizzas. I think the thing that is hard is doing it consistently, being able to make a great pizza whenever you want, no matter what the weather, your equipment limitations, etc.  That is what requires mastery. You can't get that kind of mastery until you have been at it for a good long time. Or you are a pizza genius. 

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TinRoof
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Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2013, 04:02:18 AM »
Amazing oven spring Norma!  Looks delicious as is usual for you.

Below is my 2nd attempt using this same recipe of yours (scaled for a 14 inch pizza).  It's funny because as I opened mine tonight, I also tried very hard not to compress the rim at all and my results were markedly better than my first attempt.  I really like this recipe!  Thanks again for your fantastic posts. 

--Tim
     

Offline norma427

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2013, 07:31:30 AM »

Below is my 2nd attempt using this same recipe of yours (scaled for a 14 inch pizza).  It's funny because as I opened mine tonight, I also tried very hard not to compress the rim at all and my results were markedly better than my first attempt.  I really like this recipe!  Thanks again for your fantastic posts. 

--Tim
     

Tim,

Your pizza looks perfect to me in the nice round shape, good rim browning and airy crumb structure.  Great job all around.   :chef: :pizza:

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2015, 07:29:08 AM »
I decided to do an experiment with a larger boardwalk style dough ball for a Sicilian pizza.  A bigger steel pan was used to parbaked the crust and sauce.  Butter Flavored Crisco was used to grease the steel pan.  The dough ball was opened cold with oil.  The cold dough ball opened very easily with oil.  The dough was then proofed in the pan.  After the proof I used my fingers to make an edge.  Pizza sauce when then applied and the crust was parbaked.  After the crust cooled down November's MAE method was used for olive oil, garlic and herb infused oil.  Some of the oil was brushed on the sauce.  Slices of Cooper sharp American cheese were then laid on the sauce.  A little grated cheddar then was applied.  Fresh oregano, rosemary and basil (from my garden) were cut up and applied on top.  The Sicilian pizza was then baked for a short while on the stone.  In my taste testers and my opinion the Sicilian pizza was very good with a nice crispy crunch on the bottom crust.  I did have another larger boardwalk style dough ball that was going to be used to make another Sicilian pizza.  The dough ball was parbaked with sauce.  The second Sicilian crust looked better than the first but there are no photos of that.  I used my fingers to dimple the dough in the middle for that Sicilian.  It got too late last evening to finish the Sicilian.  It was given to my helper because her husband loves Sicilian pizzas.  I told my helper the crust could be frozen and she could defrost the crust and then apply whatever kind of ingredients she wants for the second bake.  I am not sure if I will, but might offer this style of pizza at market.  At least the crusts could be parbaked and then quickly be made into Sicilian pizzas.  The Detroit style steel pan worked well for the Sicilian.  The one photo of the bottom crust looks darker than it actually was.  A customer asked me if the Sicilian pizza was a tomato pie.

Norma

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Offline norma427

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2015, 07:30:35 AM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2015, 02:26:11 PM »
I tried to duplicate the Sicilian pizza I made last week.  It didn't work out the same.  I have no idea since I didn't add the herb and garlic infusion (November's MAE method), that was added last week on top of the sauce, if that is why the pizza didn't turn out the same.  The bottom crunch was still the same, but the whole pizza changed in taste.  The oil method works well though for opening a cold dough for a pan pizza.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2015, 02:27:25 PM »
Norma

Offline Pizza Shark

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2015, 07:37:10 PM »
Norma... I have done the same thing.  Totally different pizzas from the same dough!  My specialty is NYS pizza so I have a high moisture content dough to begin with.   I make my NY Style pizzas with the dough but they are only great when they are hot as you know.  So, when I make enough dough for 4 NY styles in my KA mixer I decided to try this Detroit style with the exact same dough as Detroit Style is a pretty high hydration dough as well.  You know it but can others even believe these two totally different pizzas came from the exact same dough?  The only difference was I greased my beep dish pan with cold CRISCO and then pressed the cold dough into it (none of that fighting the dough in an oiled pan as the cold crisco makes the cold dough stick to it and it won't snap back). It also imparts no greasy oil flavor to the crust be it olive oil or another type of liquid oil.   Then I left it to rise at room temp for an hour or so and once nice and risen, time to top with some roni, then cheese, then a drizzle of sauce, and then some more roni on top (as I love that little bit of grease and the roni cooked in the heat instead of all submerged and boiling in cheese.  I've seen people here spend a great deal of money on steel, seasoned pans and such but this non-stick pan I use is HEAVY and dark already and no matter how much cheese I cover the edges of the pizza with to form that crispy burnt cheese crust IT NEVER STICKS and everything comes out clean.  FYI.. this heavy pan was purchased at Bed Bath & Beyond but can be found on Amazon as well.

NY style off the pre-heated stone to 550 degrees in the 1st photo and same dough used for Detroit style in the pan with a bake at 450... first set the pan directly on the stone for about 10 minutes and then moved it up to a higher rack for another 10 minutes or so until I liked the color of the crust... I checked it a few times.  Then pulled it and the pizza and vented on a cooling rack for while before cutting.  Once cooled and cut these Detroit Style slices can be wrapped and frozen like Elios (God forbid) and easily reheated for pizza slices at work when NY style would downright stink!     


 

Offline norma427

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2015, 09:34:29 PM »
Norma... I have done the same thing.  Totally different pizzas from the same dough!  My specialty is NYS pizza so I have a high moisture content dough to begin with.   I make my NY Style pizzas with the dough but they are only great when they are hot as you know.  So, when I make enough dough for 4 NY styles in my KA mixer I decided to try this Detroit style with the exact same dough as Detroit Style is a pretty high hydration dough as well.  You know it but can others even believe these two totally different pizzas came from the exact same dough?  The only difference was I greased my beep dish pan with cold CRISCO and then pressed the cold dough into it (none of that fighting the dough in an oiled pan as the cold crisco makes the cold dough stick to it and it won't snap back). It also imparts no greasy oil flavor to the crust be it olive oil or another type of liquid oil.   Then I left it to rise at room temp for an hour or so and once nice and risen, time to top with some roni, then cheese, then a drizzle of sauce, and then some more roni on top (as I love that little bit of grease and the roni cooked in the heat instead of all submerged and boiling in cheese.  I've seen people here spend a great deal of money on steel, seasoned pans and such but this non-stick pan I use is HEAVY and dark already and no matter how much cheese I cover the edges of the pizza with to form that crispy burnt cheese crust IT NEVER STICKS and everything comes out clean.  FYI.. this heavy pan was purchased at Bed Bath & Beyond but can be found on Amazon as well.

NY style off the pre-heated stone to 550 degrees in the 1st photo and same dough used for Detroit style in the pan with a bake at 450... first set the pan directly on the stone for about 10 minutes and then moved it up to a higher rack for another 10 minutes or so until I liked the color of the crust... I checked it a few times.  Then pulled it and the pizza and vented on a cooling rack for while before cutting.  Once cooled and cut these Detroit Style slices can be wrapped and frozen like Elios (God forbid) and easily reheated for pizza slices at work when NY style would downright stink!     


 

Pizza Shark,

Great to hear you have done the same thing and achieved totally different pizzas from your same dough.  Thanks for telling us your speciality is NY style with a high moisture content.  Do you mind telling us what your formulation is?  Interesting you greased your pan with cold Crisco and then pressed the cold dough into it.  Good to hear your your non-stick pan from Bed Bath and Beyond did such a great job on your Detroit style pizza. 

You have very inventive thinking!  Love your slices of pepperoni and the cupping.  ;D

Norma

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Offline Pizza Shark

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2015, 11:04:08 AM »
Norma:

I've never made my dough with the degree of accuracy most do here but I've been making it so long I just know when to stop adding flour and when to stop mixing.  As such, next time I'll try to keep accurate measurements.  For now, Looking at your dough and mine, it appears your hydration has to be pretty close to mine.  I have that larger size Kitchenaid mixer (the one with the handle on the side that cranks up and down to raise and lower the bowl).

Right now I am using KABF as I am out of GMFS.  To make 4 doughs, to the mixer with the standard dough hook attached I add:

About 2 1/2 cups of luke warm water I have a 2-cup Pyrex measuring cup that I just fill all the way to the top before it spills over so I figure that's about 2 1/2 cups.  (I don't measure the temperature.. it's not hot, not cold - just luke warm).
About 2 1/2 tsp of white table sugar (I used to use honey but can't tell any difference so I use sugar these days)
2 tsp of active dry yeast (I do measure the yeast)

I turn on the mixer on pretty high and let it splash around for maybe 30 seconds until the sugar has dissolved.  I doubt this is necessary but I do it.

For 2 1/2 cups of water I am guessing I use about 5 1/2 cups of KABF.

I first add about 2 1/2 cups of flour to the water/yeast/Sugar and I turn the mixer on to a low speed and start mixing.  I probably let it mix this way with this (2 1/2 cups) for about 7-8 minutes.  I then shut off the mixer and let it sit for about 15 minutes.  The mix looks like a "porridge" at this point or really soupy mashed potatoes.  During the rest time it will start to foam up and expand as the yeast starts working..

After the rest cycle I turn on the mixer probably to speed 3-4 and add about 2 1/2 tsp of Diamond brand superfine salt and about 1 1/2 TBS of oil (I use EVOO but any type of oil would work as I don't think it is enough to really add much flavor to the dough).  I mix this fast for maybe a 30 seconds until I see no more olive oil on the surface or olive oil swirl marks and the oil has been fully incorporated into the "porridge". 

I turn the mixer down to speed 2 and from this point on I stop "measuring" flour and just start adding it gradually starting by the 1/2 cup and then the 1/4 cup, etc. until the dough starts to cling to the hook.  I keep adding gradually in smaller and smaller amounts until the dough pulls away from the sides and starts working its way up the dough hook.  Sometimes the dough works its way up the hook and forms two "horns" that fly out and tall back down into the bowl. Other times I have to stop the mixer and push it back down into the bowl to keep it evenly kneeding but the dough will be sticky.  I basically stop adding flour when the dough no longer sticks to the sides of the bowl but the bottom center of the bowl will still be pretty sticky.  When I've added the last of the flour I probably let it mix another 2 minutes.  I'd say this entire second mixing process takes about 8 or 9 minutes.  My goal is to have a dough that if I press my finger into it and leave it there for 2 seconds and pull it out quickly it comes out "relatively" clean.  If I press it in and leave it for 5 seconds and pull it away there will be alot of dough stuck to it.  My rule of thumb is a dough can never be too wet but get it a bit too dry and you may as well throw it away.  What seems real sticky at room temperature after mixing is not going to be very sticky when you pull it from the refrige and it COLD 2-3 days later!

I remove all the dough from the mixer with my hands and kind of have to keep my hands moving so it doesn't stick to them and I ball it over so a large smooth ball is formed as best I can.  I drop it into a large pre-oiled plastic bowl swish it around a bit in the lightly oiled sides and botttom and then flip the ball over so what just rubbed against the oiled bottom and sides is now what is exposed to the air on top.  I seal this with the plastic lid and put it in the refrigerator.  Over 2-4 hours the dough will rise and rise to the point that it can "pop" the lid off and I'll usually hear it (as will my dog who hates such sounds).  I then punch it back down, cover it again. and leave it in the refridge for 48 hours.  If it doesn't pop the lid I still punch it back down before I go to bed that night.  After 2 days it will have risen again but not as much.  I take the mass of dough, punch it down  and squeeze it in half to tear it into two (as though I were wringing out a wash cloth) and then take the two 1/2's and do it again to each so I'm left with 4 roughly equal size doughs.  I form these into balls tucking and pinching the bottom closed so I'm left with 4 smooth doughballs again.  I take these and squish them (pinch bottoms against the sides) of the big bowl but you could put them into individual containers at this point.   I'll let them sit in teh fridge another 24 hours now as individual balls to be used.  While I let my this dough sit in the fridge for 72 hours, I believe this to be the MINIMUM... I'll use it 3-4-5 even 6 days later but I think 3-5 is best.  I do like separating the dough into the 4 balls at least 24 hours before I am going to be making pizzas for NY Style. 

When it's time to bake I preheat the stone on the bottom rack at 550 for probably 45 minutes (sometimes an hour but my stone is pretty thick... probably 5/8" thick).  I'll take 2 of the dough balls out when I'm turning on the oven and flatten them into plastic wrap on teh counter and then cover with plastic wrap while they warm up a bit.  I never re-ball, re-kneeding, etc. or stretching them into a skin will be difficult.  I never use a rolling pin... only press it flat with my fingers and stretch to a skin with my fists.  All here already know all this.  I will say I had a wooden pizza peel that broke and in a pinch I found a piece of heavy cardboard.  I took my pizza stone, layed it on the cardboard, and drew a circle around it with a black magic marker to use the circle as a guide when stretching.  That was 3 years ago!  Still using the same piece of cardboard!... Pizzas slide off onto the stone in the oven just as easy as it did the pizza peel!  However, when retreiving pizzas from the stone I use a cookie sheet. 

I will say I am not sure how the Detroit Style pizza would turn out if I were using the Gold Medal Full Strength flour in this recipe...  probably not as good but the NY Style would be a bit better.  Overall, I prefer GMFS for NY style but when I don't have it, I'm not at all bummed out using KABF.  KABF does a great job in my opinion and I don't have to travel and hour to get it and buy 50 lbs of it at a time!             


 

 

Offline norma427

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2015, 10:25:32 PM »
Pizza Shark,

Thanks for sharing you dough recipe methods of mixing and fermenting.  That sure all is a lot of details. No need to have accuracy if you know what you are doing and don't want to tweak anything.

Norma 

Offline norma427

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2015, 07:31:40 AM »
Two different pizzas made with the boardwalk style dough.  The first was a dessert pizza.  The dessert pizza was made with putting cannoli filling as the base on the pizza and then baking.  The dressings were strawberries, kiwi, apricots and blueberries added after the bake.  My helper cut up all of the fresh fruit and made an icing out of what was at my stand.  She made the icing out of butter flavored Crisco, chocolate yahoo, confectionery sugar and a little cinnamon.  We thought it was good.  I thought it was interesting how differently the rim crust and bottom crust browned when using the same dough.  The bottom crust had a different crunch and stayed crunchy when the pizza was eaten.  The dough ball was the same size as the regular boardwalk style dough balls but it wasn't stretched as big as normal.

Norma
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 07:49:24 AM by norma427 »

Offline norma427

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2015, 07:32:41 AM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2015, 07:40:57 AM »
The second different pizza made out of the boardwalk style dough was a pan pizza.  The dough was highly proof.  The proofed dough almost came up to the top of the pan before the bake.  Buttered flavored Crisco was used to grease the pan.  The size dough ball was the normal size that is used for the boardwalk style pizza.  The two cheeses used were grated Manchego cheese and cheddar.  Rosa Grande pepperoni was sliced and the sauce was applied in a spiral pattern.  Greek oregano was sprinkled on the top.  Garlic scape tops were split in half and dipped in olive oil so they would bake better.  The rim crust of the pizza and the sides of the pizzas were very crunchy as the bottom crust was.  This pizza was one of our favorite pizzas. The Manchego cheese gave the taste of a salty buttery flavor to the whole flavor profile.  The garlic scapes softened nicely in the long bake and tasted very good.  I wish I could make the same pizza every week.  I would have liked to have cut the stems of the garlic scapes in a diagonal pattern and applied some on the top before baking, but knew they probably would have needed saute in something first.

Norma
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 08:38:58 PM by norma427 »

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Offline norma427

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2015, 07:46:01 AM »
I really don't know why this pizza at the textures that we like so much.  I have no idea if it was the pan, how the dough was proofed, or if the Butter Flavored Crisco is what contributed to everything.  I wish my Detroit style pizzas had the same characteristics.

Norma

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2015, 07:52:34 AM »
Since there was a little extra time yesterday to experiment a “Three Little Pigs” pizza was made.  The piggies were waiting to try some pizza again.  I had seen this video on Pizza TV:  “Cooking with PMQ:  Three Little Pigs. 



I had no idea how much dough to use from the video and the pan that was used, so a regular weight boardwalk style dough ball was used.

The piggies were happy that a bacon, ham and sausage pizza was made.  ;D I didn't have any Asiago cheese to add after the bake so Manchego cheese was applied after the bake. 

Norma

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2015, 07:55:22 AM »
Norma

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2015, 08:04:01 AM »
The second experimental pizza in the same pan was a Bar-style pizza.  I didn't know what weight  should use for that dough either, so a piece of a boardwalk dough ball was cut off.  The dough was rolled.

Norma

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Re: Totally Different Pizza from the same dough
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2015, 09:49:25 PM »
At the end of the day my helper asked me if I could make a Sicilian pizza for her husband.  I said I could try using a regular boardwalk style dough and a Black Buster pan.  The pan was lightly greased with vegetable oil.  My helper said her husband would like how the pizza turned out.

Norma

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