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Author Topic: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results  (Read 213465 times)

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Offline Zulu202

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #500 on: April 19, 2020, 03:26:23 PM »
Did I miss something out when doing the equation? I just multiplied the % at the top of the page with the flour weight. EDIT- I did not divide the percentage by 100 before multiplying with the flour weight. My bad. Thanks again
« Last Edit: April 19, 2020, 03:34:53 PM by Zulu202 »

Offline skan

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Hello

How do we need to modify these times or proportions depending on the type of flour? For example is it the same if it has 9% proteins than if it has 15% protein?

Offline TXCraig1

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Hello

How do we need to modify these times or proportions depending on the type of flour? For example is it the same if it has 9% proteins than if it has 15% protein?

Probably not specifically for that, but some testing and tweaking will likely be necessary based on the sum total differences of your formula and workflow.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline skan

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Probably not specifically for that, but some testing and tweaking will likely be necessary based on the sum total differences of your formula and workflow.

But will you need longer fermentation for higher gluten content?

Is there an equation to calculate this table or an Android app?

Offline TXCraig1

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But will you need longer fermentation for higher gluten content?

Is there an equation to calculate this table or an Android app?

No. Higher gluten may tolerate longer fermentation, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's needed.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline thowi

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But will you need longer fermentation for higher gluten content?

I believe (haven't tested) that the enzymes in the flour (e.g. "malted") can make a difference.
Enzymes break down starches into sugars, providing more/easier food for the yeast and can speed up fermentation.

With so many variables (yeast strain, flour, hydration, salt, acidity, time, temperature, workflow, ...) it's almost impossible to accurately predict your fermentation.
As Craig says, use the model as a starting point, but do take notes (temp/time/flour/yeast amount) and adjust going forward.

Offline skan

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Imagine I want to spend 25 hours fermenting my dough using IDY.
My fridge is 45F.  My kitchen is 77F.

Looking at the table I could choose between
- using 0.32%IDY at 45F for 25 hours
or
- using 0.01%IDY at 77F for 25 hours

What is the best option?
Using more yeast could give too much yeasty aftertaste and it's less digestive.
Then I don't understand the advantage of fermenting at low temperature, you can always choose to ferment at high temperature with less yeast instead, isn't it?
What is the dissadvantage of fermeting at higher temperatures?

(I know we don't have to rise the temperature above 40C).


Offline jsaras

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Imagine I want to spend 25 hours fermenting my dough using IDY.
My fridge is 45F.  My kitchen is 77F.

Looking at the table I could choose between
- using 0.32%IDY at 45F for 25 hours
or
- using 0.01%IDY at 77F for 25 hours

What is the best option?
Using more yeast could give too much yeasty aftertaste and it's less digestive.
Then I don't understand the advantage of fermenting at low temperature, you can always choose to ferment at high temperature with less yeast instead, isn't it?
What is the dissadvantage of fermeting at higher temperatures?

(I know we don't have to rise the temperature above 40C).

You could probably produce wine in a week, but would you want to drink it?  Generally speaking, fermenting for longer periods of time will produce better results.  Where the sweet spot is for time and temperature is up for debate, but IMO 8 hours at room temp is the entry point to great dough. 
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Offline skan

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You could probably produce wine in a week, but would you want to drink it?  Generally speaking, fermenting for longer periods of time will produce better results.  Where the sweet spot is for time and temperature is up for debate, but IMO 8 hours at room temp is the entry point to great dough.

That's why I was saying two options with a fixed fermentation time (moderately long, 25 hours), varying temperature vs yeast.


Then what's the advantage of doing a double fermentation instead of just using a low temperature fermentation?

When doing double fermentation is it better to do first the low temperature fermentation or first the high temperature one?

(And related to my other question... I've seen the graphics of yeast activity and it seems than its maximum activity happens at around 85F (30C), I guess it doesn't make sense to use higher temperatures.)
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 02:23:49 PM by skan »

Offline brooklynguy

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Hello, is there an excel version of this like the sourdough version! Thx

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Offline thowi

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Hello, is there an excel version of this like the sourdough version! Thx

I once copied the data into a Google Spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yOLUHuvG4jionoQ7fP0f-uDO7JrXRwcf0DR7nBss2Pw/edit

Offline brooklynguy

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Offline Gobo

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Is this enough activity prior to cook?

0.055 IDY for 13hrs at 21.5C (70.7F)

ETA: More detail on bake here https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=19732.msg625915#msg625915

« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 10:52:25 AM by Gobo »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Is this enough activity prior to cook?

0.055 IDY for 13hrs at 21.5C (70.7F)

ETA: More detail on bake here https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=19732.msg625915#msg625915
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Offline skzbr

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Hi there!
I once saw Craig responding in a topic about using the table with times and multiple fermentations at different temperatures.
In the topic at hand, I believe it was with a starter. Sorry for my stupidity, but I didn't understand how to read it if I want to do it in multiple temperatures and times.

For example:

1- I would like to leave the fermentation in 16 hours in the fridge, bulk fermentation.
2- After this period, remove from the fridge, fold and bulk again for more 1 hour for the dough start to reach room temperature of 24 degrees Celsius,
3- After that, I would like to make the balls and leave for 7 hours at room temperature, approximately 24 degrees Celsuis.

Total: 24 hours fermentation with different temperatures.

How much YEAST should I use according to the table? How should i read it in this case of multiple times?
I just know how to read it with ONE temperature to define how much  % yeast to use.

If anyone can help me, thank you.


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Offline TXCraig1

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"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline frankie_knuckles

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This is my first go using the chart(which is so great thanks) with ADY.   I went with a 10hr rise and just wondering at which point should I ball the dough?  At the 7 or 8hr mark?

« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 11:17:13 AM by frankie_knuckles »

Offline TXCraig1

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This is my first go using the chart(which is so great thanks) with IDY.   I went with a 10hr rise and just wondering at which point should I ball the dough?  At the 7 or 8hr mark?

For 10 hours, I'd ball it right at the start. 2 hours in balls is generally considered the minimum. Less than that, and it can be pretty hard to pen  up the dough sometimes.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline frankie_knuckles

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Ok, thanks Craig.  I'm just past 3 hours so I balled them up.  They seemed fine. I'll report back.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 11:02:51 AM by frankie_knuckles »

Offline thowi

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I suppose that also depends on the strength of your flour and your hydration (and salt).
A weaker dough (weaker flour and/or more hydration and/or less salt) might become too slack with longer time in balls, no?
Frankie, what's your recipe?

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