Author Topic: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results (Read 202308 times)

Jackitup · « **Reply #100 on:** December 29, 2013, 06:35:14 PM »

at 17.5 hours and just over twice it's original size. I forgot to mention that these are 2, 400 gram balls that were bulked for 9 hours and gently split, re-balled and let go until just a couple minutes ago

jon

widespreadpizza · « **Reply #101 on:** January 11, 2014, 11:50:19 AM »

Craig, I have used this with great success a couple times now. I think its ready for prime time and should be sticky-ed and posted near the dough tools. It would be so awesome if two more boxes were added to the calculators, one being total fermentation time, and the other being ambient temp. Or this could be a really easy project for someone to just do this part as a yeast calculator. I am sure someone out there could make quick work of it, and also do the same with you sd chart? Thanks for this -marc

deb415611 · « **Reply #102 on:** January 11, 2014, 12:21:22 PM »

Quote from: widespreadpizza on January 11, 2014, 11:50:19 AM

Craig, I have used this with great success a couple times now. I think its ready for prime time and should be sticky-ed and posted near the dough tools. It would be so awesome if two more boxes were added to the calculators, one being total fermentation time, and the other being ambient temp. Or this could be a really easy project for someone to just do this part as a yeast calculator. I am sure someone out there could make quick work of it, and also do the same with you sd chart? Thanks for this -marc

I agree. Both have been an incredible help in my pizza making.

Jackitup · « **Reply #103 on:** January 11, 2014, 12:58:54 PM »

Quote from: deb415611 on January 11, 2014, 12:21:22 PM

I agree. Both have been an incredible help in my pizza making.

also, I've used it 4-5 times now, works great. That's 3 votes for a sticky (insert sound of gavel hitting sounding block 'here')!!

jon

November · « **Reply #104 on:** January 11, 2014, 01:30:40 PM »

Quote from: scott123 on August 09, 2013, 01:12:45 PM

Craig, yeast activity is impacted by variables other than yeast%, temperature and time. These other variables include:

hydration
salt
oil/fat
sugar
yeast age
dough ball size
gluten development
altitude
water chemistry (level of chlorination especially)
container material and thickness (conductivity if ambient and dough temps vary, along with heat dissipation from fermentation)
flour chemistry (enzyme activity/damaged starch etc.)

Some of these variables might have lesser impact than others, but, collectively, they put the usefulness of member feedback in question. If, say, you wanted to base the model on IDY NP, then the use of the same flour, typically tight hydration and salt levels, along with very similar dough ball sizes might help you fine tune the model for NP bakers, but asking everyone to give you yeast%, temp and time numbers isn't going to give you useful data, imo. I could easily make two doughs with identical yeast %, ferment them at the same temp, but, by modifying the other variables, double or half the time when they're 2x-3x volume (aka 'ready').

Craig and Scott,

I apologize for not having the time to read this entire thread, so I don't know how this disagreement progressed. Craig is absolutely correct about all the variables, and the potential lack of usefulness member feedback promises. I have made doughs that double in volume within two hours, and others that double in four or more, all using the same amount of yeast and at the same temperature. There's a reason why doughs, such as those used for breakfast pastries, which generally include eggs and much more butter than a typical pizza dough, require more yeast to leaven properly (or at least timely). In fact, there are more ingredients you could add to your dough that would cripple or kill off your yeast completely than hours in the day. A chart can't make zero times zero equal something other than zero. You still have to have a working reference point. In science it's also called a control. The only factor you want to change is temperature in order to solve for yeast quantity. Changing more than a single factor at once yields inconclusive results.

- November

waynesize · « **Reply #105 on:** January 16, 2014, 11:02:50 PM »

Going to try using this tomorrow. My plan is 68f room temp ferment for 22 hours. Given the .032% IDY from the chart, I will need .22g yeast. That is way less than I am used to using. Not surprised. Should be interesting. This will be my first room temp ferment. I have been making cold fermented doughs for five years.

Flour (100%) : 687.14g/24.24 oz
Water (63%) : 432.9g/15.27 oz
IDY (0.032%): 0.22g/0.01 oz
Salt (2%) : 13.74g/0.48 oz
Total (165.032%) : 1134g/40 oz
Single Ball : 567g/20 oz

I wish I had a scale that measured in smaller units!

Jackitup · « **Reply #106 on:** January 17, 2014, 03:41:13 AM »

Quote from: waynesize on January 16, 2014, 11:02:50 PM

Going to try using this tomorrow. My plan is 68f room temp ferment for 22 hours. Given the .032% IDY from the chart, I will need .22g yeast. That is way less than I am used to using. Not surprised. Should be interesting. This will be my first room temp ferment. I have been making cold fermented doughs for five years.

Flour (100%) : 687.14g/24.24 oz
Water (63%) : 432.9g/15.27 oz
IDY (0.032%): 0.22g/0.01 oz
Salt (2%) : 13.74g/0.48 oz
Total (165.032%) : 1134g/40 oz
Single Ball : 567g/20 oz

I wish I had a scale that measured in smaller units!

I'm sure you already started this, but if you didn't do this with your yeast, I always dissolve, hydrate the yeast before mixing when using these small amounts to get all the bang for my buck. Also, this tip from Craig for weighing small amounts of yeast on scales that don't measure that low........

"You read the chart right, 72h at 68F = 0.013% ADY.
I also agree that 0.06825g ADY for 525g flour is correct to hit 0.013%. 7 tenths of a gram (0.7) would be 10X more than called for not 7X.
Yes a little less than a 10th of a gram - 7 hundredths of a gram for your formula. One way to do this is dissolve 1.0g yeast in 99.0g water and use 7ml or 7g of the resulting solution. I'd probably use 8ml or 8g just to give a little room for error. I'd rather err or the high side with quantities this small"..........

Good advice

jon

waynesize · « **Reply #107 on:** January 17, 2014, 06:50:13 AM »

Thanks. I will be making the dough this evening (Friday) around 8:00pm, shooting for ready at 6:00pm Saturday. Thanks for the yeast advice. I had read it in the previous post, and will use the wet measuring method. I have no way to measure such a small amount dry. I will attempt to document as I go along, so I can post results.

Wayne

Tampa · « **Reply #108 on:** January 17, 2014, 09:18:29 AM »

Wow Craig, amazing contribution here. I'm a little late to this thread but what a great concept (model), well executed.

Thx also to Peter for his reference post in "next level" and commenting that many forum members don't understand the yeast/temperature relationship. I know a guy like that and think that he is beginning to wake up.

Dave

waynesize · « **Reply #109 on:** January 17, 2014, 01:49:07 PM »

Me too, Dave! I was in a rut, making the same old pizza. Everyone else seems to love it, but I have not been satisfied. Thanks to Peter making the post that sent me to this thread, I may get over the hump and on to the next level.

waynesize · « **Reply #110 on:** January 18, 2014, 08:33:53 AM »

After 12 and 1/2 hours, my 22 hour room temp dough is showing no signs of activity. I think I messed up making my yeast solution. Maybe I should start over.

Jackitup · « **Reply #111 on:** January 18, 2014, 10:31:34 AM »

NO, keep on going. There's been more than once when I thought there was NO hope, NO activity, and some of them were real standouts!! Follow it through. Make an extra, "just in case dough", or 2 with the time left, but start with your originals and give them a chance, you may be surprised!!!

jon

waynesize · « **Reply #112 on:** January 18, 2014, 11:01:34 AM »

I have my usual cold ferment doughs waiting in the fridge, just in case (got to be able to feed the kids). Made another batch of dough this morning. This will be an 8 or 9 hour dough. The short time involved got me to a measurable yeast amount, without having to mix with water. And I thought I would not be using science 30 years after High School

. Thanks for the encouragement.

Wayne

Jackitup · « **Reply #113 on:** January 19, 2014, 10:43:52 AM »

Quote from: waynesize on January 18, 2014, 11:01:34 AM

I have my usual cold ferment doughs waiting in the fridge, just in case (got to be able to feed the kids). Made another batch of dough this morning. This will be an 8 or 9 hour dough. The short time involved got me to a measurable yeast amount, without having to mix with water. And I thought I would not be using science 30 years after High School . Thanks for the encouragement.

Wayne

How did your pies turn out??

jon

waynesize · « **Reply #114 on:** January 19, 2014, 04:03:58 PM »

Jon, I made one 16" pie with the dough I made Saturday. It was not my best pie, but still much better than most that I can buy around here. It handled and cooked well. The taste was pretty good too. Not bad for the first time using a room temp dough. The dough I made Friday night never really took off. I need to do some more reading, and attempt it a gain. I think I did not get the yeast dissolved very well, resulting in very little available yeast. Here is a pic of the pie I made with the 8 hour dough. Nice to know I can get this good of a result on such a short notice.

waynesize · « **Reply #115 on:** January 19, 2014, 04:07:25 PM »

Oh, and I think the yeast prediction chart was correct in the amount I needed. ( my room temp got warmer than I expected).

Wayne

jsaras · « **Reply #116 on:** January 30, 2014, 04:00:53 PM »

I made a 4-hour nearly-pseudo-politan dough today. Room temp 70 degrees.

GM All Purpose Flour - 100%
Water - 60%
IDY - 0.224%
Salt - 2.5%
Oil - 2.0 %

Baked at around 700 degrees in my Blackstone for 2:30. I haven't made a pizza with AP flour since my very first attempt at making a pizza several years ago (which failed miserably). Now, armed with this information, I feel like I can take on the world!

Jackitup · « **Reply #117 on:** January 30, 2014, 10:46:08 PM »

That turned out quite nicely for a 4 hour dough!!!

jon

jsaras · « **Reply #118 on:** January 31, 2014, 10:48:28 AM »

Thanks for the compliment. I'm as surprised as anyone by the results. Now if I could just get my Ishcia starter to be consistent active I'd really be on to something

wahoo88 · « **Reply #119 on:** March 15, 2014, 10:06:59 PM »

0.05% ADY and 60 hour ferment at 60 degrees F worked perfectly for me tonight.