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Author Topic: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results  (Read 168546 times)

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Offline waltertore

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #160 on: August 01, 2014, 03:57:47 PM »
I think a lot of people would be pretty happy with that pizza Walter, all things considered.


JD:  Thanks.  For eyeballing it all it was ok but did no justice to the concept.  It did show how forgiving dough really is and how one can get away with near murder :)  I look forward to trying it again when my new scale arrives. Good luck with your experiment!  Walter
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Offline JD

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #161 on: August 03, 2014, 09:49:21 AM »
So my plan was for a 21hr room ferment, 9pm Friday - 6pm Saturday. I'd say the dough was ready to use after 17hrs. I ended up putting the dough in the fridge at the 17hr mark so I didn't have a completely overblown dough at 6. The picture is the 21hr mark after it was in the fridge for 3 hrs, and although round it is the bottom of the dough.

The pizza had a good flavor, different from a cold fermented dough all together. It's not really comparing apples to apples in my opinion. Interesting experiment and will try it again with adjusted yeast so I don't need to use the fridge at all. Please excuse the wally world cheese, I was out of the good stuff.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 09:52:39 AM by JD »
JD's NY Style
JD's Neapolitan using my Pizza Party WFO

You cannot teach experience.

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #162 on: August 03, 2014, 10:03:36 AM »
So my plan was for a 21hr room ferment, 9pm Friday - 6pm Saturday. I'd say the dough was ready to use after 17hrs. I ended up putting the dough in the fridge at the 17hr mark so I didn't have a completely overblown dough at 6. The picture is the 21hr mark after it was in the fridge for 3 hrs, and although round it is the bottom of the dough.

The pizza had a good flavor, different from a cold fermented dough all together. It's not really comparing apples to apples in my opinion. Interesting experiment and will try it again with adjusted yeast so I don't need to use the fridge at all. Please excuse the wally world cheese, I was out of the good stuff.

Keep in mind that there are a lot of things that vary from one person's unique situation to another's. The purpose of the tables is to help you find a good starting point. It may work for you perfectly, but often the need for a bit of tweaking is to be expected.
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Offline JD

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #163 on: August 03, 2014, 12:06:05 PM »
Keep in mind that there are a lot of things that vary from one person's unique situation to another's. The purpose of the tables is to help you find a good starting point. It may work for you perfectly, but often the need for a bit of tweaking is to be expected.

Understood. I'm sure I can get very close next time. Even so,  with such a small amount of yeast and higher temperature the margin for error is huge. I'm happy with my results.
JD's NY Style
JD's Neapolitan using my Pizza Party WFO

You cannot teach experience.

-Josh

Offline JD

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #164 on: August 06, 2014, 08:45:59 PM »
I did another test but this time 28hrs at 75 degrees. The picture is the doughball after 21 hours. Still a little too ripe for my preference, but not overblown.

The flavor was much better than the first one I did for some reason. Comparable to a two or three day cold ferment IMO.
JD's NY Style
JD's Neapolitan using my Pizza Party WFO

You cannot teach experience.

-Josh

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #165 on: August 06, 2014, 09:15:44 PM »
Slice looks good.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #166 on: August 06, 2014, 10:07:21 PM »
JD is putting out some great looking pizza!  :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline lanceberry

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #167 on: August 13, 2014, 06:32:40 PM »
I am reading through this and find it very interesting, but wonder if anyone has the same thought that I just came up with for my house? Living in Houston we always use the AC. At our house it is set with auto thermostat for 72F when we are home at night, 71F when we go to bed and then to 74F when we are not home. If I average the hours and the temp I would get 72.125F. My first thought is to just use 72F as my base and go from there....but if the warmer part of the day has a greater effect on the dough is this directly compensated for by the cooler part of the night? I guess what I am getting at is would you use 72F or maybe bump up to 73F for some margin and then see what that looks like?

Interesting and something for me to think/play with in addition/aside from what I am already trying to prefect. (48hr in fridge)

So many choices and so many combinations  ??? ??? ???

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #168 on: August 13, 2014, 06:38:36 PM »
You can do multi-temp calcs with it. See this post for instructions. The same will work on the table in this thread. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=22649.msg230690#msg230690

The bottom line is that these tables are to help you find a starting point. There are too many variables for them to be absolutely precise in every instance.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline lanceberry

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #169 on: August 13, 2014, 10:12:59 PM »
You can do multi-temp calcs with it. See this post for instructions. The same will work on the table in this thread. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=22649.msg230690#msg230690

The bottom line is that these tables are to help you find a starting point. There are too many variables for them to be absolutely precise in every instance.

Very interesting, thanks!

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Offline lanceberry

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #170 on: August 15, 2014, 08:03:25 AM »
I gave this a try to have some fun and see how it would turn out. I am very new to home pizza making and not sure how to interpret completely, but I think I need to use less yeast. I went with around 20 hrs at 72F. The pizza handled well, but the taste was somewhat lacking and the crust was tough and chewy. (could be the 13.6% flour used) I will try again and dial back the yeast some and use a bit lower protein flour mix.

Flour (100%):  ConAgra Supreme 13.6%
Water (63%):
IDY (.024%):
Salt (1.75%):
Sugar (1%):
Total: 750g
Single Ball: 250g

- Hand mixed and kneaded till smooth, let it rest for 5 min's twice and then back to hand kneading.
- Bulk room ferment for 11hr
- Scale and ball into 3 plastic containers
- First one into oven 20hr 
- Opened, dressed and backed in 1hr preheated oven with baking steel on 2nd from top rack. 1min bake / 1min broil / 3min bake
- Taste
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 08:05:24 AM by lanceberry »

Offline Kostakis1985

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #171 on: September 23, 2014, 05:42:40 AM »
I've read through the thread, but had a question.

Would this model work in a commercial setting? Even with the Mass Effect?

If I wanted to try the chart am I still trying to achieve a finished dough temp of 80 degrees?
Jamie

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #172 on: September 23, 2014, 09:15:29 AM »
I've read through the thread, but had a question.

Would this model work in a commercial setting? Even with the Mass Effect?

If I wanted to try the chart am I still trying to achieve a finished dough temp of 80 degrees?

It's just intended to help you find a starting point to work from. It's not a be-all-end-all.

Is it going to give you the perfect yeast quantity for a new commercial dough? Probably not. Is it going to be better than a SWAG? Probably.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline jvp123

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #173 on: September 23, 2014, 10:08:32 AM »
Wondering if there's a way to make a calculation if you are using two types of yeast - a starter like Ischia and IDY?
I was planning to do a 10% Ischia and .18% IDY.  I sorta backed into a guess at 24 Hrs at 63F and figured I'd just keep an eye on it.
Jeff

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #174 on: September 23, 2014, 10:22:01 AM »
I don't know. I've never thought about it - probably because I don't like the idea of using baker's yeast in addition to SD. There might be a way to do it, but it may not be straight forward because the relationships are not linear.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline jvp123

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #175 on: September 23, 2014, 10:26:22 AM »
Ok thanks .. I know Norma had done it here - reply #765 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26483.760, but she didn't recall how she figured out the time. 
I'm just messing around.  I'll just use my best guess and see what happens.
Jeff

Offline jsaras

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #176 on: September 23, 2014, 10:30:01 AM »
Ken Forkish's "Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast" has several bread formulations that use "hybrid leavening".  As I recall he was using 20% sourdough and 0.2% IDY;  5 hours room temp and then overnight into the refrigerator.  I never tried it,  but that might get you in the neighborhood.
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Offline jvp123

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #177 on: September 23, 2014, 10:36:53 AM »
Ken Forkish's "Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast" has several bread formulations that use "hybrid leavening".  As I recall he was using 20% sourdough and 0.2% IDY;  5 hours room temp and then overnight into the refrigerator.  I never tried it,  but that might get you in the neighborhood.

Copy that thanks.  I should probably just keep it simple, but I suspect that would take some of the fun out of it.  :-D
Jeff

Offline mkevenson

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #178 on: October 03, 2014, 01:44:31 PM »
Please excuse my ignorance, but I have read this thread in the past and scanned it now without finding the answer to this question:
Does this model pre suppose that the baker is making a specific style or type of pizza dough? Would or should this model work for all styles of pizza dough? If adjustments are to be made for different styles, is there an adjustment formula? And, if this model is a "starting point" what % of varient, would one assume to be "correct"?

The reason this question has come up, I have been using the model for quite a long time, relatively speaking, and by accident used 5x the model suggestion for my last dough. After having to reball and refrigerate my dough ball, ( normally ferment at 62F) I liked the end result, kinda.


Mark
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #179 on: October 03, 2014, 03:53:54 PM »
It should work for any pizza dough within reason. I've used it for NP, NY, DS, and bread. I don't know the answer to the second question. I don't use it for cold ferments, but in the room temp and warmer zones, it works pretty well for me regardless of style.
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