A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results  (Read 168573 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hodgey1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1010
  • Location: NW Pa
  • Pizza 🍕
    • My WFO project
Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #360 on: March 31, 2017, 10:13:23 AM »
Ok, so this thread is exactly where I want to be this morning.  Can someone help me out with the math, if you don't mind.  A long time ago, I concludeded based on Craig's chart, that the percentage of IDY for a 4 hour ferment, or an overnight ferment, was equal to slightly over 1/4 tsp. for 9.5 ounces of All Trumps. 
If I use 1/2 tsp. for 9.5 ounces, what percentage am I using?

Here's what I've observed.  With 1/4 tsp. and about 3 to 4 hours, my dough ball does not double, but it does handle really well.  It doesn't taste underdeveloped, but it does stretch pretty thin.  Longer than 4 hours, I can't say that it doubles, but it does get difficult to work with and has lots of air bubbles.

So last night, I used 1/2 tsp.  My experience was the same as other times I used that amount.  I was expecting it to be overblown by 4 hours.  Instead, the dough ball was doubled in size, and it was beautiful to work with.  I would say it was definitely much closer to what I observe from my local NY pizzeria, if not spot on.  The finished crust was still fairly thin, but I would describe it as meatier, with a better rim. 

I'm trying to wrap my brain around my observations.  How a dough ball with 1/4 tsp. IDY can go from decent at 4 hours to turning into garbage beyond that, and a dough ball with 1/2 tsp. IDY can also go 4 hours and be beautiful to work with.  I was thinking less yeast, more time or more yeast, less time equals the same dough ball just with a variation in flavor. 
Knowing what percentage of yeast I used will be a start. 

Thanks!

Hi gfg,  Craigs chart is based on using weights and not volumetric measures. Myself and I think most everyone else here, would suggest that you try switching to weights to improve your baking/pizza making skills. I did a conversion below that will show you where you are at on the chart. Hope my math is correct  :-[

1/4 tsp yeast = .7 grams IDY or .25% of your flour quanity
1/2 tsp yeast = 1.4 grams IDY or .5% of your flour quantity

Online Jackitup

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12178
  • Age: 64
  • Location: Hastings, MN
Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #361 on: March 31, 2017, 10:19:51 AM »
Agree, repeatability = scale. It DOES make a difference!!
Jon

“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain

If you don't think you're getting what you should out of life.....maybe you're getting what you deserve       -the Root Beer Lady

Offline gfgman

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 341
Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #362 on: March 31, 2017, 11:07:36 AM »
Allow me to clarify.  I do use a scale, but only for the water and flour.  It doesn't measure small enough for the rest of the ingredients.  I take the weight of IDY and convert it to a volume measurement.

Offline gfgman

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 341
Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #363 on: March 31, 2017, 11:24:36 AM »
Thanks for the math help.  I was right that I was using .25%.  .5% idy is not on the chart, but if that is what works in my case with All Trumps, I might stick with that. 
I guess I should make a dough ball with .25% and let it sit until doubled, note how long it takes, and see what it's like.  I have my guess what I will end up with, but I won't know for sure until I try it. 

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25900
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #364 on: March 31, 2017, 12:41:54 PM »
There are lots of things that can cause your results to be very different from someone else's. The chart was intended to help find a starting point not be a be-all-end-all. Some testing and tweaking should be expected. When you find what works, go with it.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline mitchjg

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 5094
  • Location: Oakland, CA
Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #365 on: March 31, 2017, 12:47:12 PM »
Hi gfg,  Craigs chart is based on using weights and not volumetric measures. Myself and I think most everyone else here, would suggest that you try switching to weights to improve your baking/pizza making skills. I did a conversion below that will show you where you are at on the chart. Hope my math is correct  :-[

1/4 tsp yeast = .7 grams IDY or .25% of your flour quanity
1/2 tsp yeast = 1.4 grams IDY or .5% of your flour quantity

1/4 tsp yeast is 0.8 grams (to the nearest 1/10) for Fleischman.  I think the weight is consistent for other brands, too.
The 142 1/4 tsp servings on the label is for a 113g (4 oz) jar.  113/142=0.796



« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 12:48:56 PM by mitchjg »
Mitch

“We hate math,” says 4 in 10 – a majority of Americans

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25900
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #366 on: March 31, 2017, 01:07:49 PM »
1/4 tsp yeast is 0.8 grams (to the nearest 1/10) for Fleischman.  I think the weight is consistent for other brands, too.
The 142 1/4 tsp servings on the label is for a 113g (4 oz) jar.  113/142=0.796

Which means 1/32 tsp = 0.1g, and since nobody can measure reliably measure with +/- 1/32 tsp accuracy, 1/4 tsp is probably somewhere between 0.7 and 0.9g - or worse.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline hodgey1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1010
  • Location: NW Pa
  • Pizza 🍕
    • My WFO project
Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #367 on: March 31, 2017, 02:20:59 PM »
Allow me to clarify.  I do use a scale, but only for the water and flour.  It doesn't measure small enough for the rest of the ingredients.  I take the weight of IDY and convert it to a volume measurement.

There are other methods you can use to portion out small quantities of yeast, but I use a 1/10 of grams scale from Amazon and it cost $8.50.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O37TDO/?tag=pmak-20

Offline kurbanlikkedi

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 75
  • Location: UK
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #368 on: April 22, 2017, 06:24:38 PM »
Yes, you seem to be reading it right. There are dozens of other variables that can affect this. The chart is intended to help you find a starting point. It make take several rounds of testing and tweaking the yeast amount to settle in on a formula that works well in your unique situation.

hey Craig is this the latest version of the yeast charge?


Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25900
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #369 on: April 22, 2017, 06:37:30 PM »
hey Craig is this the latest version of the yeast charge?

I think so. Is it this one: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.msg355933#msg355933

If so, it's the latest.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Minolta Rokkor

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1755
  • Age: 24
  • We stand on the shoulders of giants.

My setup is 65*f, .040% yeast. Which calls for a  24 hour proof. I also  reball 12 hours before bake time.

After measuring yeast in this method.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=21048.0

Using the fermentation chart, and a wine cooler.

I have been getting identical pizzas back to back, and they're perfectly fermented.


Next i'll try 65*f, .016% yeast. Which calls for a 47 hour  proof.
Pizza is about balance, nothing more nothing less

Offline parallei

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2567
  • Location: Denver, CO
Just another confirmation.  I did a 29 hour dough @ 57F and used 0.06% IDY and it worked out well.  The dough was 100% Bay City Milling Contadino 00, 62% HR, 2.5% Salt and 0.06% IDY.

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5351
  • Location: New Jersey
Rok,  :)


So you'r balling 12 hrs into the 24 hr ferment...I'm assuming uou're using words Proof and fermentation interchangeably. Or you're holding dough after and balling then?


Offline Minolta Rokkor

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1755
  • Age: 24
  • We stand on the shoulders of giants.
Rok,  :)


So you'r balling 12 hrs into the 24 hr ferment...I'm assuming uou're using words Proof and fermentation interchangeably. Or you're holding dough after and balling then?
Yup balling 12 hours into 24hr ferment.

BTW I  recently used ADY instead of IDY for the first time in years. Too me the dough had less flavor and a different texture.
I even adjusted the ADY to match the IDY percentage.

The chart was used at my usual parameters, 65*f, .053% ADY / .040%IDY , 24 hours.
Pizza is about balance, nothing more nothing less

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5351
  • Location: New Jersey
Thanks MR

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Minolta Rokkor

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1755
  • Age: 24
  • We stand on the shoulders of giants.
Here is the result of using the chart.

Flour 100%
Water:62%
Oil: 1.5%
Salt 2%
Sugar:1%
ADY: .053%

Fermented for 24 hours total at 65*F. Reballed 12 hours into fermentation, baked at 550*f for 7 min 30 secs on stone.

This chart is spot on for me.
Pizza is about balance, nothing more nothing less

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25900
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
 ;D
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline fdmason

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 28
  • Location: Long Island, NY
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #377 on: August 18, 2017, 01:17:54 PM »
How does the temperature at fermentation account for warming up the balls for a few hours before baking?

For example, if I'm doing a dough that according to the chart would take 26 hours in a wine cooler set at 55 (.126% ADY) (the cooler is just more stable than RT at my house in the summer), I would obviously need a few hours at RT to get the balls ready to go for baking. If RT is 74 that would normally be a 6 hour dough from start to finish. If I needed to have 2 hours RT before baking, does that mean I should pull the dough out of the cooler 66% of the way through the ferment so roughly 17 hours?

Or should I just scrap the idea and do a 74 degree RT ferment with smaller yeast quantities even though there might be some more fluctuation in temp?

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 28518
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #378 on: August 18, 2017, 01:30:11 PM »
Here is the result of using the chart.

Flour 100%
Water:62%
Oil: 1.5%
Salt 2%
Sugar:1%
ADY: .053%

Fermented for 24 hours total at 65*F. Reballed 12 hours into fermentation, baked at 550*f for 7 min 30 secs on stone.

This chart is spot on for me.
MM,

Another nice job. I agree with you on Craig's chart. It is a great place to start, and one of the best features on the forum.

Peter


Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25900
  • Location: Houston, TX
  • Pizza is not bread.
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Baker's yeast quantity prediction model - please compare to your results
« Reply #379 on: August 18, 2017, 02:14:27 PM »
How does the temperature at fermentation account for warming up the balls for a few hours before baking?

For example, if I'm doing a dough that according to the chart would take 26 hours in a wine cooler set at 55 (.126% ADY) (the cooler is just more stable than RT at my house in the summer), I would obviously need a few hours at RT to get the balls ready to go for baking. If RT is 74 that would normally be a 6 hour dough from start to finish. If I needed to have 2 hours RT before baking, does that mean I should pull the dough out of the cooler 66% of the way through the ferment so roughly 17 hours?

Or should I just scrap the idea and do a 74 degree RT ferment with smaller yeast quantities even though there might be some more fluctuation in temp?

Keep in mind that the chart is to help you find a starting point. Several iterations of testing and tweaking may be necessary. That being said, it tends to work remarkably well across a wide range of scenarios. Part of that is because of the data it's built on. It effectively averages the scenarios. Unless what you are doing is fairly uncommon, you may find that the table works pretty well without trying to incorporate all the nuances of minor temperature changes.

If you think the temperature changes are significant, you can use the chart to account for them. See the instructions here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=22649.msg230690#msg230690
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


 

wordpress